Sitka Mountain Gear
Crossbows why or why not
Oregon
Contributors to this thread:
gangster40 23-Dec-17
WapitiBob 23-Dec-17
osage 24-Dec-17
gangster40 28-Dec-17
osage 28-Dec-17
gangster40 28-Dec-17
gangster40 28-Dec-17
swede 28-Dec-17
osage 28-Dec-17
gangster40 29-Dec-17
gangster40 29-Dec-17
tlingit 14-Jan-18
gangster40 21-Jan-18
From: gangster40
23-Dec-17
Ok opening a can of worms, and going to state my views. After a triple fusion back surgery, and a rotator cup surgery on left shoulder ( I am Right handed), and now having problems with right shoulder. I have come to the realize my hunting days may be at the end, or soon to be. I have looked into alternative weapon's. Rifle recoil that didn't bother me before, now makes me want to cut off my arm. So I looked into a crossbow, just to try and figure out what all the arguing was all about. Well first just the looks are a problem, yes it has all the parts of a bow, but it does have a stock. Hummm Hybrid. Oh yes it does have a trigger , but don't most mechanical releases have a trigger of some type. So to me that is not enough to discrimmanate agianst a crossbow. Ok modern or old. To me there is no debate on that. The compound bow is newer then the crossbow. Crossbows were around right beside the long bow. They were kind of the compound bow of there time. oops did I say that. Then there is the distance you could possably shot, had to go to the manufacurers for this. The range of a crossbow is within the same range as a compound bow, this is from the people who make them, so as humans are they will try to push it. Speed the fastest bows IBO speeds are around 365 ft per second. The crossbows I read about are from 350 to 385. Now they didn't say IBO Speed and because I do not have one to see have to take what they are saying. Last accuracy, I can't do Alot of comments on this don't have one to say they are or not. I would always hope they would be. But the most accurate rifle in the hands of someone who can't shoot, are just a normal rifle. Same goes with a bow. With all this I can not see why crossbows are illegal, or why can't a dissabled person hunt with one.

From: WapitiBob
23-Dec-17

"With patented HeliCoil technology, the Ravin crossbow measures just six inches from axle-to-axle and delivers unprecedented downrange accuracy – with groups as tight as three inches at 100 yards."

Pretty good reason to keep them out of archery season.

From: osage
24-Dec-17
Might as well get an Airbow and hunt with it during archery season. After all "its your new rifle", as it is advertised. 3" groups at 150 yards.

From: gangster40
28-Dec-17
Wapitibob ok good accuracy, but what is the kinetic energy of the bolt and the momentum of the bolt at that range, ethically would it be a good clean shot. I am no physicist, but as with a bullet, arrow, bolt or any other projectile you lose both of those as you go to your down range. I know that with a compound bow in the right hands 100 yd shots are not that uncommon in target shooting, I have been to 3-d shoots and seen these shots, But the penetration was not very acceptable. I have also had to help track animals that people have tried these shoots, and they were not my most memorable great times of hunting. You do know that back in the early 80's the same things were being said about the compound bow, (there accuracy and range were to great to add them to archery season). I do not know if you are a traditional archer or not I just remember the arguments. I am not looking for the law to change to help me keep hunting, I know that in the last hold out state, by the time it might change I will not be around or be able to hunt. I just want to understand the thought, that want to keep them out of Oregon, even for disabled, or youth for that matter. And crossbows are just the tip of the argument, there is tech that would help with the drawing of a bow, but most of them are not legal in this state either . Because they are a mechanical device to help with the draw cycle of the bow. Osage if I wanted to hunt with a rifle, why wouldn't I just get one of the air guns, Like the Airforce brand, that shoots up to a 45 caliber pellet, no recoil. I am not looking to find away just to hunt. Even though I do not get my pry every year, because I limit my self to 40 yds or less. That is what I most enjoyed about archery, was the challenge to get up close and personal with my pry. That statement was like telling me because I am becoming disabled I do not have the right to hunt, in the manner I enjoy. I do not want to sound bitter, but your statement hit me wrong if it was not meant too, I am sorry for my reaction. And as with all it is going to happen to all of us, you can not stop it time does its job very well, what are you going to do when it happens to you. I am not happy with my situation, but I can not change it. Like my father one day I will not be able to enjoy the thrill of the hunt.

From: osage
28-Dec-17
It was not my intent to be insulting in any way. My point was that each year these ever advancing mechanical systems are being developed, and being including in the primitive seasons. I have no problem with a person using one, but they belong in the rifle season. Oregon is the only state that I know of that has traditional bow areas only, no compounds, no 300 yard inline muzzleloaders, and I would hope that it remain as such. As it is, we traditional people have little of anything left.

From: gangster40
28-Dec-17
I thank you Osage. I am sorry that I let it hit me in the wrong way. I guess I just don't want something I love to do be taken away from me. I will continue to bow hunt as long as I can. And will stick to my limits or make them a little more restrictive, as I like the idea of getting in close. I do have a long bow I wish I was better with but I am just no good with it, but enjoyed playing with it up until my shoulder surgery. the only thing I disagree is your use of the word primitive weapon. If you look at history the crossbow was along side the long bow in Europe in the mid-evil days. They could take off the scope on the new cross bows ( the ones like XCALIBOR style bows and be in line with the ones in the mid-evil times), but I know they could not do that.

From: gangster40
28-Dec-17
Oh and as for muzzleloaders regs have changed, you can use inline muzzleloaders with what they call the northwest package, basically you can not have a covered or contained primer, so everything but archery is changing in Oregon.

From: swede
28-Dec-17
I tend to agree with gangster on this. These new crossbows are on par with a good muzzle loader or even an old 30-30 rifle. Let hunters use their cross bows in the rifle season. If they made the choice before hand, I would permit them in the muzzle loader season in lieu of the M.L. What is the problem? Certainly no one would try to use these new pieces of equipment for any special advantage. Allowing them in the rifle season or M.L. season would not be promoting more of the technology creep in archery that has been prevalent in the past 45 years. It would help maintain some resemblance of "primitive" in the archery season.

From: osage
28-Dec-17
I wasn't aware of the changes in what is allowed during ML season or the Northwest Package. Basically it changes the priming system from one that probably will not get wet to one that could. Does the new law allow high velocity pistol bullets with sabots or is the primer the only change?

From: gangster40
29-Dec-17
The law change is only on the primer system, no sabots or the plastic seal of any kind. I believe it is only ball or conical bullet. ( lead cup bullet). I was suprised to see the change my self.

From: gangster40
29-Dec-17
I did a little looking into the mid-evil crossbow just to see the differences, and actually put my hand on one, didn't fire it. The stocks are a little long, so I assume it is placed in the arm pit, and there is no cams, so power is all in limbs. To me the big difference is in the trigger, it is a lever that is pushed up to the stock, which I can see a safety problem if the bow was dropped. And the most noticeable no scope, which I don't believe a primitive weapon should have.

From: tlingit
14-Jan-18
One of the big differences between a bow and a crossbow is that with a bow you must draw while the game is in front of you. With a crossbow that movement is not available to the animal.

From: gangster40
21-Jan-18
Thank you all for your responses. Just have a few more comments, on things I have learned. I still have a problem when the word "primitive" is used, to say that crossbows are not. Again crossbows were the first tech after the long bow, and developed through some of the same changes, from recurve to compound. So basically they were around together. Tlingit yes you don't have to draw when the animal is close, but there are disadvantages, One they are very heavy compared to any vertical bow, and very heavy up front. So packing them around is not pleasant. Two they are very noise when fired, so string jump is a problem. Three there is no way to tune a crossbow so you have to pray that the manufacture did there job well. Four they are very cumbersome Have you ever had a animal coming behind you, moving them around is not as easy as you think. A good point was made to me equipment doesn't make the hunter, a hunter makes the hunter.

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