It's nearly impossible to get twelve arrows done exactly the same. Maybe I'm too anal, but I like all of my arrows fletched [exactly] the same. Same distance from the end, same offset, same helical. Things easily done with a Bitz jig, but not so with other fletching methods.
I have fletched my own arrows since I was about 12 with a JO-JAN fletcher...
Pros;
My daughter Morgan makes them up with me "Basically she can do them by herself"
The fletching is resistant to cold so that the ftetching wonet peel off as most do over time.'
The weight is always consistant. X-Man I know you say your anal but do you measure the amount of glue (weight) so that your fletching is consistant???
Takes about 4 minutes to do 6 vs. all day of drying time.
Cons;
I have shot about 15 deer using these and there is one consistant problem. The fletching tends to slide back as your arrow passes thru the deer. I shoot 70 lbs...
Other than that I love them. I do like feathers for the look it gives on my arrow. I know feathers fly better than vanes but with these Blazers and the quick spin I doubt that the feathers fly better now with those options???
Anyhoot you asked and I have alot of experience with them...
Kelly
Is there any data you have came across to justify that claim? I like to get to the nitty gritty of this kind of stuff.
It's not the weight that would bother me(and yes I use exactly the same amount of glue on each vane)
Answer me this. You fletch 12 arrows with the shrink wrap fletching. They vary from 1 to 3 degrees offset and from 5/8" to 3/4" from the end of the shaft. Do you really think all of those arrows will hit the same POI at 40 yards?... Not even out of a shooting machine.
I quess the guys who use these probably can't shoot well enough to tell the difference anyway. I know I can tell the difference, and so would most of my arrow customers.
It's just that you'll never see them on an arrow in the top flights at any tournament. There's a reason for that. Guys who can shoot very very well would never use them in a tournament. And I've always believed that one should take every precaution to achieve as close to perfection as one is able. "good enough" has never been good enough for me. For some poeple "good enough" is good enough, and that's each persons choice.
For you to tell me I cant shoot very good because I use those shrink wrap vanes makes me think you are ignorant in your way of thinking...(dont confuse ignorance with stupidity)
Have you shot the blazer shrink wrap vanes?????? If you have not then you are talking out your rearend!!!!!
And how do you know you use the same amount of glue??? Is it premeasured if not than I can promise you in grams you dont use the same!!!!!!!
And I can get my fletches to match up withing a few thousands from the end of each shaft... All it takes is a thermometer and make sure your water is the same temp and BAMMMMM you should have the same shrinkage...
I did that routine with the thermometer twice and relized quickly that it didnt matter
When did you use the shrink wrap vanes??? Like I said I have used them for 6 years and love them and I bet I when it comes to the amount of deer harvested in a lifetime I am willing to bet I am in the top 3% in the country on that.....
X-man I have been shooting a bow since I was 6 years old shot competetive at age 9 agianst 15-16 year olds and won most tournements!!! For you to basically call me a liar about the blazers is wrong (yes that is what you did) The blazers shoot well actually extremely well. for you to even consider yourself above another hunter (elestist) just shows what kind of person you are. Just my opinion!!!!!!!!!
SO if your willing to put some money up on some inner circle shots with shrink wraps at 40 yards let me know!!!!!!!!!!!!!
X-man when I need to buy arrows I promise you this I will not be asking to buy them from the likes of you!!!!!!!!!!!
I just got some off ebay and I am going to try them. Anything I should be concerned about when boiling the water or how long to dip them or are the directions pretty good that come with them. What was your first mistakes when you put them on. Just so I don't ruin any. They are not here yet but should be in a few days. thanks
Scott
I'm using Fusion vanes this year and find them easier to fletch and have better shaft adherence when pushing/pulling them through butts while practicing.
They are my vane of choice for me now.
The imortant part is make sure that you leave them dipped all for the same amount of seconds. Also after fletching 3 of them I re-heat the water.
I believe mine are flourescent yellow and green with the white cresting. makes it easier to pickup coming off the bow...
3 things I learned;
1. dont leave them dipped in to long they warp bad (but still fly good???:)!!!!
2. Dont install to far up your nock or it will shrink on your nock as well.
3. I can honestly say I the first time I did it they were all over the place because I didnt take the time to set them properly on the shaft before dipping them into the water. But they all still flew tremendous.... I am totally hooked on these bad boys.
I just bought a dozen shafts and Maybe I will post a video of these this weekend? Our neice is getting married so it may have to wait until monday or tuesday. However if you want to wait to watch the video that may help?????
I will have Morgan do all but the first one and she is 8 years old that is how easy it is.
These are identical to the ones I shoot.
I have noticed this. I can hear the quickspins with helical when I shoot them fly through the air. I can hear the air pass over the fletching. I can not hear any sound from straight fletched or off set fletched 4"vanes.
All the arrows my family has are now shrink fletched, and do-it-yourself fletching do save BEAUCOUP dollars!
My only gripes are that the illustrations came with the shrink-fletch are misleading.
We live in the sunny California, and the temperature is usually in the 80's, yet I found out that we almost always have to boil the water in a pot big enough to allow VERY quick submerging of the entire shrink fletch, or the fletch will not shrink completely. And while boiling the water ? keep the lid on, until you are ready to fletch. If you keep the pot's lid off, the top water temperature is not exactly the boiling temperature just because you see bubbles and water swirling fast in the pot. I find out, if I don't do that, the flteching will ended up like KellyHarris said, , '...The fletching tends to slide back as your arrow passes thru the deer...'.
So the Blazer's illustration shows the user dipping the arrow in the glass jar full of hot water in bogus to say the least.
The second gripe is that, I wish there is a way to color these shrink-tubes in colors other than white.
Or better yet, make these shrink tubes transparent, so you can color it anyway you want.
I like the idea. Have not tried them personally One reason X-Man may be very much against them is this....
He has a shop and if he starts recomending these then he takes away a huge part of his re-fletching customers. I know our shop wont recomend them due to this we would lose alot more than we would gain by selling them.
Ancient serpent---- I use a really tall styrofoam cup when I do it. I usually use a tall cup from speedway.
Kelly, claiming 4" groups at 60 is just discrediting yourself. Please post a link to your states archery records so we can see your perfect 900 round scores. Surely you have no problem shooting 900's with groups like that.
Yes, I have shot them. I even tried to sell them so I wouldn't have to spend so much time stripping and re-fletching arrows. The guys who bought and used them had me take them off because their scores suffered at league(it's true). I'm sorry that the truth hurts so much, and I'm sorry you're having such a bad week. Cheer up, season will soon be here.
4" at 60 yards seems a little far fetched to me too but hey, I've never seen the guy shoot. I can get 3-4" groups at 50 once in awhile on a good day but I definitely wouldn't call it the norm.
Since you are the expert tell me the difference on the adhesive characteristics of a fletch that is glued down or one that is applied thru vulcanizing the fletching with shrink wrap????? Your the expert tell us...
As to my shooting there are several on this sight that can vouch for my shooting ability. Regardless this topic was about what everyone thought about shrink wrap vanes. NOT "Hey xman what causes someone to not shoot good.
Your the expert and said if someone shoots shrink wraps they dont shoot well enough to tell the difference between that and feathered fletching!!!!!!!!!!!
you know X-man they say "Its easier to be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt"
Your statement that folks who shoot shrinkwrap fletching dont shoot good enough to tell the difference obviously removed the doubt in who is the fool....
I guess the only thing that will hit a nerve with me is when folks feel they are superior to others and act pompous, arrogant, smarter etc.
Who cares aboit the adhesive qualities??? How do you know your arrows are all traveling the same rpm's to achieve the same speed down range? This has never been about weight, adhesive, or vanes verses feathers. it's been about fletch angle, placement and orientation.
"Your the expert and said if someone shoots shrink wraps they dont shoot well enough to tell the difference between that and feathered fletching!!!!!!!!!!! "
again, I never said anything of the sort. please see explanation above
"you know X-man they say "Its easier to be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt"
I couldn't agree more
"Your statement that folks who shoot shrinkwrap fletching dont shoot good enough to tell the difference obviously removed the doubt in who is the fool.... "
Go to the results of last years Vegas WAF. Every one of those guys can tell the difference. If you cannot, well then I guess you answered that question for yourself. My statement about guys who use these not seeing a group difference was not meant as an insult, just an observation.
"I guess the only thing that will hit a nerve with me is when folks feel they are superior to others and act pompous, arrogant, smarter etc. "
pot to kettle
I use shrink wrap fletching not because it's better, but because I'm lazy, and it's fast. I'm sure I could shoot better without them, but I don't care. I don't even practice beyond 20 yards, let alone hunt past that. Kind of tough to do from a wheelchair.
I see nothing's changed since last year(the last time I've logged on.) poor little x-man is usually right, and that ticks off the spoiled rich kids. ;)
I bought some of these shrink wrap fletchings Extreme Archery brand with the blazer vanes over a year ago, I was skeptical. I'm pretty anal about things my self.
I never used them until a few weeks ago. I love them, I think they are a great product. They are grouping as well as any other arrows & fletching I've ever shot. They are very easy and they look great. The ONLY negative I can see is as one other poster already mentioned, getting the exact same helical on all of them. But so far they have worked great for me & they are tougher than I expected. I've had several pass through targets with no damage to the wrap or the vanes.
My Bitz fletcher will probably be collecting some dust in the future!
You know. We all learn a lot by engaging in open-minded discussion.
What sets the conversation apart, is when people making statements like 'so-and-so is usually right. Therefore, someone else better shut up.' The alarm bell went up.
My personal view is that when people blindly taking sides like this, their judgement is clouded. And the info forthcoming will not be as helpful otherwise.
Kelly mentioned a group of 4" at whatever yard they were shot. I have had 5 robinhoods at various distance beyond 30 yards and less than 70 yards in the past 12 months, plus many more at 20 yards. That speaks a lot for nutation, spine oscillation frequencies, secondary harmonic frequencies, FOC, BC, cross-section density, aerodynamic surface torque, yaw angular deviation ... and so on, not to mention RPM, fletch angles, placement, etc.
And no, I ain't got no records, and no International Olympic Committee to judiciate the results, the splitted arrows were busted, and shrink fletch were burst to pieces. And I pulled the second arrows out and still use them.
These are just empirical results. And frankly, I feel the fletch angles are just as consistent as my Bitzenberg jig. And, as some of my local pro-shop works are of questionable quality, shrink-fletching kind of take the matter into my own hands without having to wait for the glue to dry.
"People are very open-minded about new things - as long as they're exactly like the old ones." - Charles F. Kettering
The one time it slipped is when I shot a buck for Morgan when she was sick and it went straight thru its spine. It was a straight down shot. I think the spine itself had a lot to do with that fletching slip backwards.
The other was a steep quartering away on a doe and I shot her from the back left rib and thru the front right shoulder...J.M.O. on the slippage
As stated by Ancient Serpent Six-- I dont have olympic committe standings or State competitions just some good old backyard shootin!!!!!!!!!! All the tournements were back in the 70's and 80's just at some local archery shops.
As forest Gump says "Thats all I got to say about that"
onto a new thread folks...
So I decided to post how my family fletches using the Blazer quick-fletch. To compare notes with the community.
The quickfletch seems to have some kind of adhesive in the inner surface. But we always use a piece scotch tape for each arrow shaft to line the shrink tube at the precise the same spot. For obvious reason, the scotch tape should be applied to connect the quickfletch tubing at the edge towards the tip, not the knock.
We always make sure that the shaft logo and the quickfletch logo lined up (my wife shoots Easton ACE, for example, and she always lines up the quickfletch logo and the Easton logo perfectly, such that it would look like Easton Aluminum Carbon Extreme QuickFletch, as if they are of a single line of text) before the scotch tape is applied.
We have a pot of distilled water (tab water does not seem to work as well) boiling with lid on, the water should be at least 10" deep (may depend on your shrink fltech tube length).
When the water is hot boiling, we dip the arrow shaft +the quickfletch+the scotch tape with the logo side up, and lower the assembly into boiling water at a 45 degree angle for only 5 seconds and take it out. And then close the lid.
We then wait for about 15 seconds, open the lid, and immerse the next arrow in the exactly the same fashion.
Arrows with shrink-fletch is easy to re-fletch, no need to clean the left-over glue, and the way we did it, the arrow seems to have less deviation than using a Bitzenberg with unkown quantity of glue. I think that was Kelly's point.
1. distilled water does boil, in fact closer at 100 deg C than inpure water.
2. what I stated, by boiling, in the conventional sense, the water should be heated on a stove. And never microwaved.
3. all boiled or superheated water contents (distilled or not) are extremely dangerous. So proceed with extreme caution.
4. The difference between a microwaved distilled water and stove heated one is that the microwaved and superheated distilled water can seem normal (ie no bubble or swirling motions) but in equal volume, the microwaved water can contains the exact amount of energy if both methods are heated to exactly 100 deg C, so can be just as dangerous, though without showing the warning signs.
Thank you for bringing out the caution to people so they won't 'boil' water through microwaving it. But we boil distilled water in metal pot, on the stove all the time.
x-man is a competition shooter. We are basically hunters. If you were competing you need everything pretty much perfect. Because each and every single shot is measured and scored to some degree. We're talking throwing out half of your shafts because when you spine tested them they were off a bit. Time spent fine tuning equipment is just a labor of love, not something like mowing the lawn. There is a purpose to it, to make better scores. And then even better ones.
I think it's an unarguable fact you can build a better more consistent arrow by hand. Fact.
We're hunters. We aren't shooting for scores and having to fletch a bunch of arrows is like mowing the lawn sometimes. Geez, just trying to talk someone into broadhead tuning his bow is pulling teeth to some.
I'm sure these shrink fletched arrow perform acceptably. I'm also sure you can hand make arrows that will be more consistent. And likely shoot better scores in competition.
30 yards, super tight touching groups, the norm for me.
40 yards, again super tight touching groups, the norm.
50 yards groups started to open up, the group was the size of a compact disc, agian the norm for me.
60 yards, same groups as fifty except for my next to the last shot. I hit the belly of my 3D target and the arrow went into the grass almost couldn't find it. My fault no doubt.
After examining the arrows I found that one flecthing had a tear. it wasn't the one in the ground as it was perfectly fine, but a little dirty. However, the ripped one is no good to me anymore. I decided to see how easy they come off.
WOW!!!, I took my pocket knife and held it level with the arrow and cut back the whole distance of the wrap. Then I took my finger nail and began to peel off the wrap. Man did it come off extremely easy with very little residue. I then pulled on the other two to see if they were still holding tight. Yep, no problems with that.
Here is what I think. Would I shoot them at my next Outdoor Worlds 3D competition shoot. NO, unless they came with black wraps and all black vanes then I would, only so you could not see my arrow easily in the target. For Hunting, Heck YES. These work very well in my opinion and group good too. Little pricey yes but the clean up after taking them off is what is well worth the cost to me. I like them.
You know it really doesn't matter, if you like them shoot them, if not, don't, just that simple. Case closed!
If you're going to quote me, the least you could do is copy and paste like I just did. Where did I write "must not". I then went on to say that statement was an obsevation, not an insult. And it's true by the way. If a person takes the time to super-tune their equipment and make sure everything is as close to perfect as possible, then I don't see that person "settling" for an inferior arrow fletching. THAT was the point of my posting.
