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Office of The Sheriff (702) 828-3231 [email protected]

My short email to Sheriff Gillispi yesterday read:

Sheriff Gillespi,

It is a darn shame you are not doing more to support the Bundy family and attempting to keep the state and county roads within Clark County open to free travel by Clark County Citizens. Shame on you.

The Vandenberg Family from Colorado

Whether you consider that to be right or wrong, as the courts have ruled against Clark County ranchers, it is the position of Cliven Bundy.

There is a long history to the Sage Brush Rebellion but I think this a fair summary.

Edit: I should have wrote ancestral open range grazing rights. before the Feds imposed fees on those Federal lands. It's a states rights issue with respect to Federal land grabs of a states property.

I think it a fair summary of my opinion rather than a legal summary because the courts have ruled otherwise. Want to make the clear after re-reading my post.

Whoever is in charge of this.... needs to be removed and possibly charged. "Public support for the family will not be allowed outside the designated First Amendment area." BLM snipers (snipers? BLM? huh?) trained their rifles on the family as they videoed (FROM A STATE HIGHWAY!) their cattle being rounded up. Speaking or documenting anything outside the "First Amendment Area" is grounds to arrested or possibly shot. wow.

Hey

Whitey

Move along...nothing to see here.... Good to go I guess. No problems. Just let the government handle it as they want to. It will all be OK down the road.... after all, they are just looking out for our best interests.....

Oh. wait... sorry, I'm outside my free speech zone.... never mind...

I had always thought America was a free speech zone up until that time. Boy was I a numbnut.

Nothing more than a crowd control technique that inhibits free assembly close enough to be heard and or seen by politicians. Even the alternate press is corralled into these zones during these events. Only MSM are allowed to enter the main attraction in most cases I have observed first hand.

It was so common for the MSM to understate the numbers attending the protests that organizers passed out tickets for estimating actual numbers later. Always in the best interest of the MSM viewers to underestimate the "nutjobs" in attendance.

Of course he can't compete if the feds revoke his grazing permits. I'm told the original reason the feds stepped in to stop the grazing was to rescue the desert tortoise.. I don't know it for a fact but I've read of a few instances in other states where that has happened. Also, read an article that alleges Senator Reid suggested the feds move a boundary for a designated desert tortoise recovery area because it negatively impacted a friends holdings. Mr Bundy should have made nice with Harry Reid, could have saved himself a lot of trouble.

You're one of the good guys RB, don't go getting a persecution complex... ;-)

Running cattle for free. On public land.. Huh..

In Arizona high country the choice is 3 elk or 2 cattle as a ratio in calculating sustainable land grazing. The cattle business had a big say in the management.

I'm having issue with "First Amendment Zone". If they were interfering with carrying out the court judgement then arrest them. But free speech should not be restricted by those who it is directed against simply because they don't want to hear it. The family videotaping along a state highway was NOT impeding the officials from carrying out the court order. They were disrupting nothing, but documenting the event.

Any public message of support for the ranchers outside a certain area is grounds for arrest? Smacks of brownshirts for sure.

BTW I don't think it's impeding an officer to video him on a traffic stop either. But have seen folks arrested for doing so.

When did BLM have snipers? Good grief.... in the cross hairs for videoing folks rounding up their cattle.

Further, as he has stated, his operations underwrite (manage) the native ecology. Western states are not analogous to private land operations in parts east.

A good time to revisit Russell Means' youtube videos regarding the "reservation" treatment that is coming to the rest of America. Bear the caucasion xenophobic musings; his observations are sound.

I can't tell you how much open range there is exactly but it is vast. Many square miles. He pays a flat fee, not per head. Any adjoining private land that is not fenced, like my own, gets grazed on for free. I'm not using that piece of land so I don't mind. It has regenerated grass better since I tore the fences down and let the cattle have at it. If it starts looking a little bare, my dogs and I herd the cattle out. Good neighbor policy.

I have no clue what "BLM managed" even means other than they manage the fee receipts.

Edit: I forgot to give credit to recreational users who are great organizers and volunteers performing cleanups also.

What i did see during 26 years in Arizona was not uncommon over grazing, especially, naturally, in times of drought..

I've known a few ranch workers and a couple managers..nice guys. They also killed every cat and bear they could... I understand their motive was in their best interests. I kinda like them being around myself..

It did change for the good in my time there..the Willow Springs Ranch north of Tucson in particular..It's desert not high country and really susceptible to grazing damage. The manager for the last 20 years was taking a very stringent approach to managing the herd there. And the land was showing some positive effects.

The nicest desert grassland in southern Arizona though is in the Buenos Aires Wildlife Refuge down by Sasabe on the border. It's been sealed off to cattle going on 30 years. It looks much like I imagine it looked in the 1800s.. they do controlled burns on it as part of management. A very small part of southern Arizona however..

Our BLM is pretty poor grazing. Poor high alkaline soils. All sparse cheatgrass for the most part. Sparsely brushed with rabbit brush, greasewood and what looks like some short type of sage that looks a little like stunted wormwood. I should look up what that is someday. I call it ankle roller.

When I moved out West I couldn't believe the attitude of ranchers here.

As far as they are concerned, every blade of grass that grows and every drop of water that flows was created by God for their cattle.

I truly empathize with them, when every day depends on water and feed prices and hay prices, what is growing and what isn't.

But my grand dads did it without ever putting a cow or running a plow in land they didn't own.

Cattle ruined the Western states. They grazed off the good grasses to the point only poor grasses could survive.

AZ used to be filled with streams and rivers - some with river otters. The grasslands and high Sonoran desert were alive. Then came the cattle, followed by immense erosion, to the point where you go hunting and wade through the cow shit, to see a cow eating prickly pear and cholla cactus.

And the ranchers' response - well I built a pond to catch runoff - that's gotta be good for the critters.

These dirt tanks, are cesspools. Nobody in their right mind would stick a finger in one of these "stock tanks" that are supposed to replace the flowing streams that were here before the cows. And the wildlife use them only because there is no cleaner water source available.

So I don't feel the need to stick up for Bundy. He's made enough money running cows over public land that he admittedly stopped paying grazing rights for a long time ago.

Bundy family has grazed this land for more than 100 yrs. w/ desert tortoise still intact. I would like to see pictures of this same land 100 yrs. ago for comparison although photographic evidence due to changes in tech may not make that a proper comparison.

The only people who are coming to their aide is the public. I have noted in the MSM, many of them are now being labeled as militia groups.

I guess one could argue that the government actions are taking place on the public's behalf. I don't think it is in my best interest, watching the strong arm militarized tactics being used to resolve this issue and remove Bundy cattle for resale. While I can't say I agree with court rulings against Bundy as I am not familiar enough with the long legal process that has taken place, I can't say the Bundy family has abused that land either. For all intents and purposes, it appears that family and perhaps other families have been the stewards of that land for much longer than BLM management efforts.

I certainly understand, especially with respect to earthen stock ponds in arid areas like our own, how cattle can decimate these areas due to the concentration that occurs with limited water sources. I observe this all the time. It may not be PC to say so, some of those stock ponds are smaller areas that have little benefit to anything other than the cattle and the wildlife that use them. My point being that they provide a water source for pronghorn, maybe other critters too. As offensive as I find piles of cowshit all over open range, it seems the only ones bothered are humans. I observe how cattle can abuse and degrade local flora and soils in this regard and I also see how flora and soils sometimes benefit. Perhaps I am ecologically naïve in this regard.

That is a good question, but without it, much of the US would still belong to France, Russia, Mexico, and Spain.

Harry Reid and his son, Rory, are deeply involved. They want the feds to take over the ranch so that a Chinese company can build a solar energy plant.

Guess who represents the Chinese company?

That's right! Rory Reid's law firm!

Maybe we should just call it business as usual.

And I mean no offense to the many honest businesses or businessmen across this nation or abroad. So don't go git en your panties in a wad.

"No, they will fire the next shot and it will be a shot heard round the world and we will fire the rest."

This is the same sort of excessive militarized police action discussed on previous threads, but on steroids.

No longer do we have a government of the people, by the people and for the people. We have government to control the population.

Need to find article, but read yesterday of the desert tortoise refuge being shut down...and the tortoises destroyed. Now, using the same critter for political purposes.

WELL, WELL, WELL: Dingy Harry Reid Behind Feds' Land Grab Attacks on Rancher in Sleazy Payback Deal

"...Sure enough, as Dana Loesch reports today in a great piece of investigative journalism, Senator Harry Reid, known as "Cleanface" by the Nevada mob, and named by Judicial Watch as one of Washington's "Ten Most Wanted Corrupt Politicians," has been using the BLM to seize rangeland on behalf of campaign contributors. One of Reid's former senior advisors, Neil Kornze, was recently appointed to lead the BLM, but he has worked there since 2011, and been de facto leader for at least a year. According to Loesch, Reid even ordered BLM to alter boundaries of tortoise habitat to allow top contributor, Harvey Whittemore, to develop the land. Yet another compassionate Democrat concerned for the environment. Good old Cleanface..."

From another blog I read this.

In a case of “I would never have believed this in a million years”, the Arizona State Senate President Andy Biggs and the Arizona House of Representatives Speaker Dave Livingston are both in agreement that Arizona should be involved in supporting CSPOA and Oath Keepers in going to Bunkerville, Nevada. These two leaders of the Arizona Legislature have vowed to support the Cliven Bundy family. This stunning development cannot be overstated, and yet, there is more. Additionally, State Senators Al Melvin, Chester Crandall, and Kelly Ward along with State Representatives Brenda Barton, Bob Thorpe, Kelly Townsend and Warren Peterson are all planning to be at the Bundy ranch by Sunday morning. All of these local government officials are planning to attend the Press Conference Monday afternoon with the CSPOA and Oath Keepers along with the Bundy’s and other sheriffs and public officials from across the country.

Nevada State Rep. Michele Fiore (a strong patriot who has attended many of our meetings) is on site right now at the protest site outside the Bundy ranch, and she is helping us assemble a coalition of Nevada state legislators. We are also working with WA State Rep Matt Shea to put together a delegation of other Western State Representatives to go there to support Rep. Fiore and her coalition, and we are working with Sheriff Mack to bring a delegation of current serving CSPOA Sheriffs to stand vigil there. We need Oath Keepers to also show up and stand vigil and support this family and the patriot legislators and sheriffs who are taking the lead in defending them. This is critical. The goal is to stand vigil to prevent another Waco or Ruby Ridge, and to put pressure on the Nevada Governor to honor the oath he took by standing up for this family and for the state of Nevada.

I fly to Vegas tomorrow. Sheriff Mack is coming too, along with the current serving Sheriffs he is rallying to the cause.

All who can make it, need to be there. We need numbers - boots on the ground. The more the better.

For those who are coming, please rally at the public protest site near the ranch in Bunkerville, Nevada. To get there, take I-15 North, toward Mesquite, and get off at exit 112. Go right two miles (you can only go right). You will see tall flag poles and signs. Can't miss it.

Per Ammon Bundy, here are some rules:

First, NO MILITARY CAMMO. This is a protest by rural Americans. Dress accordingly. (from me: Oath Keepers can wear Oath Keepers polos if you have them, or OK T shirts, but please no cammo. Let's respect the Bundy family request).

No open carry of rifles. Any rifles people may have with them need to stay in the vehicles.

When you arrive at the protest rally point, ask for Ammon Bundy, Cliven Bundy's son, to check in. If he is not there, he will have designated another family rep for you to check in with. DO NOT go past that first rally point/protest site with the flags that the family has set up on private land. Beyond that is the road to their ranch, and no one is to drive to the ranch without express permission and escort by Cliven Bundy or his sons. Please respect their need for security and privacy.

No volunteer is to give any media interviews. Refer all media first and foremost to the Bundy family members present, in particular Cliven Bundy, Ammon, or one of the other sons. And/or refer them to one of the current serving Nevada State legislators who will be there, such as Michele Fiore (she is gathering a coalition of Nevada representatives), or one of the current serving Sheriff's who will be coming. We are there to support them, and let them handle the media.

If any media ask to interview Oath Keepers, please refer them to me, but I will likely just refer them to the family until we do a press conference once Sheriff Mack arrives - and even then, the focus will be on the coalition of current serving Western State Legislators and Sheriffs that we are helping to gather. They and the family will be the main effort, and we are there as support.

BRING CAMERAS. Film everything. The more cameras, the better.

Bring relevant signs about honoring the oath, respecting property rights and free speech rights. We are there to stand up for rural Americans who are under attack and to pressure the Governor and the Clark County Sheriff to do their duty.

Ammon said volunteers can camp on private property that is on the side of the road at the main protest site the family has set up (the first gathering place you will come to with signs and flags once you get off I-15 at exit 112 and go about two miles). Again, please ask the family members present where to park and where to camp if you want to camp.

Thank you,

Stewart Rhodes Richard Mack

All our gear is packed as it always is. Feel obligated to do the right thing and we are not that far away. Wife is a little pissed, concerned but understanding, well kinda.

I want to observe history in the making first hand. Maybe I will be able to share some first hand observations.

Whitey says the "right wingers" want a shooting war. Obviously that's complete and total bullshit.

This Whitey is just more typical strawman bullshit... with all due respect.

"Walk softly bit carry a big stick." Is that a Ghandi quote?? LOL, I think you missed the point TR was making...

That is exactly what all these people should do. Group up together and march right through the pigs. Actually form a couple big groups. IF or when the cops start shooting or bashing people and it makes the news that will only garner more support.

I just don't understand cops. There is no way they would get me to shoot or pepper spray people over something like this if I were a cop.

LMAO.... Is that before or after the Govt has made it near impossible to get said ammo?

I would love to hoard some ammo if I could find some over the past 2 years. I guess the other hoarder beat me to it? Ya right!

The way I see it and I know y'all were waiting with baited breath to hear my views... the Bundy family if the story is true has been using this land since the what, 1880's?

So, in 1993 the BLM takes over what I would think would be Nevada's land because of a bunch of turtles. A law was passed allowing them to do so. We all know that laws are made when a group, organization, company or corporation can pay a lobbyist enough money to not only satisfy the lobbyist but also enough to pay off a Senator or Congressman or two to get the deal done.

So for 20 years the Bundy's have been refusing to pay for grazing rights to land, as far as I can see the Feds don't own. Now in 2014 the Feds bring in the tasers, the dogs, choppers and jack booted thugs.

Then the a fore mentioned jb thugs sic dogs and knock down a woman and taze on of the family. Then people come from all over to protest the Feds actions but the militia?? should not look like militia, they should look like ordinary folk while the jb thugs look like well...jb thugs. Meanwhile the jb thugs are stealing Mr. Bundy's cattle and the little turtles live happily ever after.

Kathi, spot on as far as I can tell. That is what I see.

Oathkeepers, CSPOA Sheriffs and the legislators whom were mentioned in my previous posts, swing my support in the Bundy's direction. Oathkeepers, CSPOA Sheriffs and the mentioned legislators deserve my support in their efforts to avoid a violent confrontation between "militias" (if that is what they really are, I don't trust the MSM label) and the Feds.

Not to mention the Reid stories. Another favoring support of the family and their positions, regardless of how the courts have ruled.

People, we are so screwed.

""Breaking: Sen. Harry Reid Behind BLM Land Grab of Bundy Ranch

BLM attempted cover-up of Sen. Reid/Chinese gov’t takeover of ranch for solar farm""

This article says if you are a "real" ahmurican you have to go to Nevada and start a war. Are you a real American or not tblow?

Do you really believe in free speech? Do you think articles like the one on ZH should be censored? Do you believe all the conservatives here on the CF think the same or agree with every word ZH or any other source for that matter publishes? All of your comments have led me to think you would answer yes to each of those questions.

Think about that for a minute.

I can think of no strict Constitutionalist that would support any of the ridiculous arguments you are attempting to start. They are nonsensical at best.

Whitey,

Your not an ounce better than those you criticize. You pop off like a petulant child at those who at a minimum just want to discuss current events and forward their opinion. You are just a crotchety ornery ole wind bag that has most likely never lifted a finger to change anything. You are the voice in the wilderness screaming at those who are screaming for change. The statuesque is fine with you no matter what it is.

There is NO difference between what you do here and what you accuse others of doing... Wait that's wrong....At least a lot of the members here like to start with the truth.

You and I differ because, "I however respect the system and would use it for resolution. I will not respect any of you that do not go to Nevada to back up your talk."

That implies you feel the "system" is fully in compliance with the Constitution or you respect the system in it's present form which is clearly not the case in the opinion of most of American conservatives.

Many are not in a position to back up their opinions w/ respect to the Nevada situation. That should be obvious to any clear thinking adult. They do however have every right to opine those opinions here or anywhere else.

The only one spinning and deflecting here is you. You have yet to answer a single question posed to you so that the fine folks here can ascertain what the heck you're position even is. Although it is becoming much more clear.

You are clearly not what you represent yourself to be, IMO. That, or you truly are a tool.

You can go back to sleep anytime you wish. No one here is stopping you.

I so see a deep concern to portray themselves as being civilly disobedient while projecting a public image that is acceptable to a wide range of American viewers while avoiding being antagonistic to the point of being fired upon by the JB thugs. Pretty smart and a well reasoned approach, if you ask me.

Gotta go, have a great day.

.

.

.

.

;-)

"On Saturday, Clark County Sheriff Douglas C. Gillespie announced that the Bureau of Land Management would cease their persecution of cattle rancher Cliven Bundy. He also stated that Bundy’s cattle would be allowed to graze on the land. Stay tuned for updates and live coverage."

Another thing , do not expect another presidential election. I doubt it will ever happen. Obama's army is armed to the teeth and evicently in ways and places we never expected. Since when did the BlM go paramilitary and under what authority and reasoning?

God bless, Steve

Too bad I'm not the Thread Owner. lol

Ranchers proclaim loudly their fierce independence and distaste of the government. That's all well and good.

Yet at the same time, most of them are grazing their cattle and sheep on public land, and for a fraction of what those grazing rights are worth.

For example, the BLM charges wool growers $1.25/AUM, which allows them to graze five sheep for that price for one month. That means they pay $.27/month to feed each animal. Yet it costs the BLM over $10/month simply to administer the program.

But just try to raise the grazing prices to anything approaching FMV and the ranchers would be screaming bloody murder.

Many of these rancher's families have been running their cattle and sheep on the same government land for over a century. When you talk with them, many of them will refer to the land they lease as, "My land."

Only it's not. The land belongs to the taxpayers.

That expression bugs me "Govt land"

Its public land and the Govt should only make sure it stays healthy and get out of the way. Short of regulations to insure it is properly cared for the Govt needs to back off.

There are more than enough tax dollars to care for all the public land so they do not need to add insult to injury IMO.

If you wanted to bring your dog with you to walk across public land that you already pay taxes for would you be OK if the Govt then charged you extra for that?

Hardly a reasonable analogy.

If you run a business on property that does not belong to you, you should be paying FMV to lease the land.

Unless you paid for the land and hold the title to the property, that's the way it needs to be none.

I don't approve of the Govt. owning the land western ranchers graze on. But until they buy it and own it, they should pay FMV for the grazing rights.

I am over my head and did not do my due diligence. Do the ranchers have any buildings on those lands or just the animals?

In an area where cattle and wild horses are separated by barbed wire fencing. On the cattle side, the vegetation is hardy and sustaining to the cattle being grazed there. On the horse side, the land is barren.

The article notes that animal rights activists want the feral horses protected and herds not reduced to levels that were determined by the BLM (which has abdicated their responsibilities).

On the surface, it seems that cattle ranchers are being shown to be better stewards of the land than the government.

A different aspect when it comes to discussing what is paid for those grazing rights, of course. But certainly a factor to be considered.

YMMV

From reading the links and links to links, that land likely would not even be fed land but for the EPA. Who is in the middle of grabbing state and private land in WY right now on a similar premise if I recall. The EPA confiscating land and redistributing it. Out of control. Shut em down. Now.

Whitey? He falls into the useful idiot group Lenin spoke of.

Whines about folks complaining that are upset about an overreaching government. Conspiracy kooks. Then says nothing we can do, just shut up and live with it (like other subjects around the world do under the rule of their dictators).

Then when these people take action and actually DO make a difference..... A conspiracy to take the land by one of our own Senators under the table..... whines about that too. BTW, I sent emails to those listed on the links stating my support and and that I will continue to monitor.

The inner impotence must be eating a person alive to be trying so hard to keep others quietly submissive as well. The anger at seeing what action actually looks like is pretty telling. That it may succeed and I see a jump off a bridge coming....

Have a nice life. I'd pull the covers back over my head and go back to sleep.....

The AUM goes up and down based on market conditions. The private land lease grazing prices, beef cattle prices and cost of livestock production.

From the BLM website:

“We all know that improperly livestock grazing can have many detrimental impacts. We also know, however, equally as well that well-managed livestock grazing can have many positive effects and that livestock grazing can be done in concert with the environment, in concert with many other amenity values.”

- Jeff Mosley, Ph.D., Extension Range Specialist, Montana State University

The science of range management, evolving over the last century, has fundamentally changed grazing practices and the impact of livestock grazing on the land.

“Since that period—100, 150 years ago—we’ve come a long way. We’ve learned a lot about how individual plants grow—that’s calledplant autecology —we’ve learned a lot about, , plant synecology, how plant communities interact with one another in the face of disturbances like fire and grazing. I see livestock grazing as a viable tool, to be used to manipulate vegetation in ways that make renewable resources more renewable.”

- Larry Howery, Ph. D., Rangeland Extension Specialist, University of Arizona

Throughout the West, targeted grazing projects are getting results, documenting the effectiveness of this approach as a powerful tool for resource management.

“There really is a place for it. It can really accomplish landscape goals such as reducing fire, such as reducing invasive species, such as handling landscapes that can’t be handled with mechanical tools or with herbicides or with fire. So, livestock grazing and targeted grazing is an important part of the whole landscape management toolbox."

- Karen Launchbaugh. Ph. D., Department of Rangeland Ecology and Management, University of Idaho

By law, public rangelands are managed for sustained yield and multiple uses such as public recreation, energy and mineral development, livestock grazing, and many other uses.

In the face of growing pressures on rangelands across the West, Federal resource management agencies have a daunting mission.

Agencies such as the Department of the Interior’s Bureau of Land Management – with stewardship responsibilities for nearly two thirds of all public rangelands – must determine how to balance all these uses and values, while ensuring the sustainability of the rangelands.

Successful range management is both science and art. Science can give us strategies to ensure the health and productivity of the rangelands.

Implementing these strategies involves the art of collaboration, bringing diverse interests together to forge balanced and workable solutions.

SOLUTION: Go Vegan! Kidding of course.

Thinking out loud, the science of public grazing appears to be sound if managed properly. Perhaps it is the failure of the BLM to properly manage the public land grazing programs. Not suggesting it is, but it would not be the first failure of a federal government program. What those failures are at least in part is the inability to obtain FMV for taxpayers.

Solutions could be to de-centralize management of the grazing permit systems back to the States or private free market solutions or both.

If Nevada taxpayers agreed the gap in AUM fees and FMV is acceptable to them, I have no issue with that. I would focus on those differences in my State as I would be the payer for those gaps, not other state taxpayers.

Grazing on Federal lands managed at the Federal level could be compared to the State and free market models for comparison of best practices.

I think other solutions possible as well. Recovering the gap between AUM and FMV could be recouped through oil/gas/mining revenues if more public land was opened for those developments.

Oh, the howls I can hear in having one private industry subsidize another rather than taxpayers. I wouldn't like that idea if I was an oil/gas/mining operator either. Especially since some miners are currently operating at levels not much better than cost of production. Oil/gas are doing much better but still not an equitable solution for them even if it was a net benefit to consumers and taxpayers.

Perhaps a model that shares the gap between livestock producers, oil/gas/mining and taxpayers is a more equitable solution without one industry or stake holder being more negatively impacted over another.

In any event, public land uses should be managed by the States on state land and Feds on Federal land, IMO. What models to use is open to wide discussion and include recreational users as well. It should be managed based on the available science and minimizing the gaps for state taxpayers at the state level and federal tax payers at the federal level. If that means each user group pays a little more, sharing the gap costs, what' wrong with that? Seems fair to me on the surface and net benefit to consumers and taxpayers.

Some western ranchers support the lease buyback program. Probably not favored by most western ranchers but shows we should not lump all western ranchers into the same stereotypical pot.

$1.35bis correct, but the number of animals you can graze for that price varies depending on what kind of animals you're grazing.

TD,

These leases are not 'per acre.' They are based on the amount of forage available. So the fact that southern NV forage is sparse is factored into the price. You pay per animal and how much it eats, not by the amount of land it takes to feed them.

Interesting – Within Hours Of Reid/China Report, FEDS Back Away From Nevada Cattle Ranch

by Ulsterman on April 12, 2014 with 6 Comments in News

Mere coincidence? Perhaps, but what cannot be denied is Nevada Senator Harry Reid’s absolute silence during the nearly week long standoff between the Bundy family and armed federal authorities who surrounded his ranch and were actively rounding up his cattle. Bundy still faces a million dollars in land use fines, lost cattle, destruction of his property by BLM operatives, and perhaps the ongoing ire of a certain, high ranking, U.S. Senator.

Feds Back Down From Bundy Siege After Infowars Exposé of Chinese Land Grab

I have little problem absorbing some of that gap as a taxpayer if I gain the benefit of improving that range or just making it more sustainable. It would be pretentious of me to put an actual value on that benefit but it is clearly there based on the science.

One question I ponder. If the range condition deteriorates, as some of us have observed first hand, who is responsible, the manager (BLM), the operator (rancher) or both? If your getting paid on behalf of the taxpayer you best had do a better job of managing that operator. I think it is in the best interest of the operator to be a good steward as it seems to me the Bundys and many other operators are. I'm sure there are some exceptions too.

A slimeball like reid will take advantage of that. I wonder if his involvement in this coming to light had anything to do with the feds suddenly backing off?

I will likely take several weeks or longer for many of the details surrounding this event to emerge.

That is coming from a guy doing the same thing he complains others are doing and from someone who has nary a clue what each one of us actually do in our personal lives or how involved we are in the things we talk about here.

I guess in order to opine on any subject on the net you MUST also be actively involved in that exact story you are opining about because if not you are a "paper patriot."

A person can only be involved in so many things at once. We must pick and choose what we actively decide to get hands on with. Time is limited but not being actively involved and hands on with everything a person opines about does not disqualify them from speaking up.

Taking our country back is a good cause and I am actively involved in trying to help do that.

You are right of course and no one here would ever actually be involved with anything in a hands on way. Yep we are all just paper patriots I guess because tighty whitey said so. LOL

Get out and hunt instead of posting videos of someone you wish you could be.

LOL...

;o)

"Hi Kathi, yes (well kind of) we were all waiting all night for you :-) Didn't know if you had a hot date or not." Ah..if only..nah us old folks are in Kentucky and I wish, I really do that I could have gone to Nevada if only to bring water and sandwiches to those who were standing up for freedom.

Whitey, you are getting obnoxious in your old age ;-) Lighten up dude.

There is nothing wrong with opinions...God knows the politicians certainly have enough of them which is probably why we are in this mess to begin with. I firmly believe that our Country is under attack by our government and it's our fault. We have followed party lines which allowed the last two presidential hopefuls to loose.

Now, about Bundy paying for grazing rights. Does he pay state taxes? Did he in fact try to pay either his county or Nevada for grazing rights? Did the Fed. Govt. try to say this was about turtles? Did the Govt. take turtles and kill them because they couldn't afford to feed them but pay millions for this debacle?

Questions that make you wonder what is up.

Just a bunch of dishonest pussies. The cool part is, they know and embrace just how pussified they are, like it is a badge of honor.

Interesting parallel and "progress".

He was torn between the idea of a French presence in the area and the fear of diminishing States rights by the expansion of Federal Power.

I think perhaps what we witnessed in Nevada was what Jefferson feared.

Following along with Jefferson's reasoning, since he reasoned he was willing to go to war over the French presence, he seems to be also saying he is willing to go to war over the expansion of Federal powers over States rights. At least that is one conclusion I came to after reading the link. Not to say I hadn't reached that conclusion previously from many of Jefferson's writings.

So following the situation in Nevada, the Bundy's reasoning may well be just as reasoned as those of Jefferson.

Not being one who would want to put words in Jefferson's or anyone else's mouth. It would be very interesting and I am certain enlightening to hear Jefferson's thoughts on the Nevada/Bundy ordeal.

Regardless of the government show of excessive force, Bundy is probably legally wrong here.

If the feds wanted the cattle out of the area all they had to do is to begin issuing hunting permits. They would have made money instead of spending $3 million, hunters might have gotten some nice beef, and the tortoises would have been saved.

Bundy could have decided whether he was going to have his cattle hunted, or purchase graze on private land like most ranchers do.

BLM refused to allow him to continue the lease on the family ranch which they had run cattle on in a continuous basis for over 100 years. They instead demanded that he pay them trespass fees is the cattle got on what they now claimed to be their land. The state refused to continue his lease. The government would not allow the fencing of the land so the cattle naturally trespassed on it. He was in a catch 22 which was purposely orchestrated so that Harry Reid could make a deal with a Chinese company to use the land for Green energy purposes.

This entire deal is nothing more than a blatent attempt to depose a rancher, steal his land and business and profit by use of an armed bunch of thugs that have absolutely no business using arms to attack and threaten citizens and steal from them.

Legal or not legal , we all know what is right and what is wrong. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the government is being used in the ultimate attempt at a hostile takeover and trying through the media, an un informed people and complicit press, including Fox News by failing to tell the whole story to make the Bundys and any other person that the BlM, EPA, FBI, IRS or any other bunch of recently armed and instructed Brown Shirts want to paint as lawless their victims. You will be next. Mark this., Obama is tsking over this nation. He will do it with force or with fear.

God bless, Steve

The French sold the Louisiana Territory to finance Bonaparte's forthcoming war with Britain. The fledgling United States lacked the capital to fund that purchase, so we borrowed it from...yep, you guessed it, the British Banking System. The British Banks financed a French war against Britain via the Louisiana Purchase.

Ha! Whoda thunk somethin' like that'd be possible?

Oh well, Whitey's surely got a point about my warmongering...Ummmm, wait a second here. I never said anything about wanting to go shoot anybody or start a war. Actually, quite the contrary.

I'm certain that I've said something to the effect of "These Liberal numbnuts need to learn some basic mathematics and cognitive reasoning!" and "I'm fed up with having Democrats stepping on my scrotum."...'cause, well, I'm not a numbnut.

You try to have a good night Whitey. I know of no one here that would respond to your ranting with anything more than a shake of the head and a shrug, but really? You're agitating on the internet, challenging people to take up arms and start a war that you claim they advocated? And you claim that the people who disagree with your point of view are deplorable and misguided?

Perhaps you should reread the things you post sometime and ask yourself if those posts are really representative of who you want to be.

Tell that to government. They should practice what they preach.

As I have said before, when the law becomes lawless, the people have no obligation to obey the laws either. Picking and choosing losers and winners has led us to this point.

I'm sure I can get news just like that from Fox or any other MSM outlet. Not news, just opinion I have little regard for.

If I want opinion, there is a lot more intelligent commentary coming from Libertarian sources, IMO.

Too bad more patriots did not go to their aid. Certainly power in numbers. Maybe eventually

This is not over by a long shot and could still turn ugly. I pray it won't. Patriots are fed up.