Bowsite.com

Officials at Denver homeless shelters say the legalization of marijuana has contributed to an increase in the number of younger people living on the city's streets.

The deputy director of Urban Peak, which specifically helps homeless youth, tells The Denver Post that the majority of new young people it is seeing say they're in Colorado because of marijuana. At the St. Francis Center, a daytime homeless shelter, pot is the second most frequently volunteered reason for being in Colorado, after looking for work.

There is a growing homeless epidemic and its not because of any drug.

The drug war hasn't helped that's for sure!

What did the dealers do when supplies were low?

Raised the already high prices and lowered the grade!

The store owners claimed the growers raised prices exponentially and were selling very low grade MJ at ultra high prices.

But some people still bought it! While others continued to use to their old connections.

Buyers complained to the local news outlets though, with cries of Price Gouging all over the headlines!

In the meantime, the black market demand has increased leaps & bounds in this area.

Nothing fuels demand like government sanctioned & supported drug addiction....

We are idiots and deserve everything that WILL be coming to us. How would you treat an idiot who would allow you to take from them everything they own including their thoughts without a fight.

The Rock

For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away.

That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. [Matthew 24:37-39]

I think we all agree that we should all be free.

Free housing assistance to provide you a place to lounge around freely all day & all night long.

Free welfare assistance to pay for your dope & other necessities.

Free food stamps to keep you functioning and cover needs like the munchies.

Free utility assistance to keep you comfy despite the adverse weather conditions.

Free public transportation to allow you to freely get around without mowing down your fellow motorists & pedestrians.

And free Obama Phones, to boot!!!!

After all, true freedom is NOT working eight hours a day, five days a week just to support the desires of some rich white collar slave master.

There are many, many like-minded critters who agree with you. And we gotcha covered...

Absolutely not. No one said that.

You want to talk about the welfare state? The welfare state that republicans and democrats have brought us?

I am for ending the welfare state. Stealing is immoral and wrong. Everyone knows that. But we allow the government to steal it and give it to others...Everyone knows stealing is wrong no matter who is doing it.

The welfare state is just one more thing that must be stopped to make freedom legal again.

Jaw...I'm not even close to an Obama supporter.

Of course, anyone who supports legalization is just a pot smoking freeloader from Washington or Colorado destined for the gates of hell while paying more in taxes than many earn. 8>)

There are many more important issues showing how stupid we have become as a nation. The list is long.

I am not condoning drug/alcohol abuse.

Throwing otherwise good people in jail for MJ use is a case of the cure being worse than the problem, IMO. I have admitted I may be underestimating the social consequences of it's use. I just don't see those consequences as being any worse than booze. Two wrongs don't make it right but I believe in equal application of the law.

We refuse to employ MJ users in anything other than menial low paying jobs and don't consider that to be of any consequence in growing homelessness. Extend that to drinkers, premarital sex or other forms of immoral social behavior and homelessness could become the norm. I'm not saying societal pressures are not effective deterrents because they are, just not uniformly applied.

Having lived and worked in our state for some 40 plus years, I have met some highly intelligent and successful professionals who have admitted to regular MJ use. Most are not even close to the liberal persuasion many here attribute to them. Then again, I don't hang out at the local pot shops and there are none in my local community. There is only one in our County to my knowledge.

It should be apparent that legislating morality to the inth degree has not been successful. At least I don't think it has nor should it be. Failure and consequences are good teachers. We don't need to stop them at the point of the big government gun. If we do, let's hope they are not pointed in our direction as societal views change over time.

We need more kids without a dad, or a dad in prison. Smoking pot, drinking, unprotected sex, more baby-daddy's than fathers.

That's exactly how they destroyed the nuclear family, the extended community, the social fabric that made use different - and better.

We'll reap what we have sown, and it won't be any better for the left than the right.

I can hardly see how being an advocate of throwing people in prison for immoral behavior contributes to keeping the family together. Perhaps we should send the entire family to jail. I could get behind church outreaches for them and have. I would rather attempt to help them become better families than support them for the rest of their lives.

Another thing for the legalized MJ/drug use supporters to consider is, the people using MJ/drugs, by and large, are not as free as some of you might think they are.

Many are bound by the power of that drug. Or in other words, they are slaves to it. They aren't free, and many of them will even admit it.

They spend much of their thoughts, time & efforts chasing after the next high. They build their lives around it, making it the centerpoint of their lives.

To expect our society to encourage that life of slavery, along with all of the other negative side effects that come with any drug, is foolishness.

Freedom schmeedom... ;^)

Agreed. +1

Seems many like to toss MJ users into the same pit as the heroin users and wife beaters.

Gentlemen, please keep in mind that "Presumption is the Mother of all **** **'*"

MJ is used recreationally by tens of millions of your average, every day Americans. Not "low-life stoners", losers, or minimum wage earners, but well employed, mature and intelligent people. Rather than have a beer at the end of the day they smoke a joint...big deal.

Having MJ legal for recreational use should not have any more of an effect on society than when prohibition of alcohol was lifted.

Any possible "addiction" to MJ is 90% psychological and 10% physical. A heavy user who just stops smoking MJ will be cranky for a couple days, and that's about the end of any potential withdrawal symptoms.

Jawbone: A number of us medical users in the state did all we could to tell them that the business model they were employing was going to fail, and fail miserably.

They'll get a few well off customers who'll buy from them, but for the most part anyone that has a clue isn't going to pay $20+ a gr. when very good quality MJ (grown by people who know what the hell they're doing) can be bought for $7-$8 a gram.

You need gas, and there's only two gas stations at the exit..one looks real fancy and has Regular at $4.50 a gal, and the other station isn't as fancy and doesn't sell Starbucks, but has the same quality of gas and it's only $2.00 a gal.

Which station are ya going to go to?

Jawbone: "Many are bound by the power of that drug. Or in other words, they are slaves to it. They aren't free, and many of them will even admit it.

They spend much of their thoughts, time & efforts chasing after the next high. They build their lives around it, making it the centerpoint of their lives."

People like that simply need to get a life. Still, the statement is very generalizing and presumptuous.

While I'm strictly a medical user, it truly saddens me to read how many of you wouldn't hesitate to take away my freedom because you think you know better.

Aren't all laws based on a moral code?

Are people thrown in jail for moral behavior?

Really? Ya think these parents are raising a stoner?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/07/health/charlotte-child-medical-marijuana/

Or these parents?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/charlottes-web-marijuana-a-hope-for-kids-with-seizures-despite-unproven-medical-benefits/

Time for a reality check folks.

Doctors around the country hand out prescriptions by the thousands every day for medications thousands of times more dangerous than marijuana. Pain pills, anti-depressants, etc., and you're all up in arms over someone using marijuana to treat an illness?

Good grief.

HA/KS: Not sure about the current stat, but in 2011 over 650,000 (yes, six hundred and fifty thousand) people were arrested for possession of marijuana.

Sure as heck not a straw man.

Arrested does NOT mean sentenced to prison. It is still illegal by federal law and in all but two states by state law. Most places a conviction for simple posession results in - a traffic type fine.

YES, it IS a straw man.

Where is the science? Where is the double blind research required to get a medicine approved for sale in the US? Where are the quality controls and accountabilities? Do these dealers carry malpractice insurance?

I didn't express any anger, call MJ users low-life's or refer to anyone by any derogatory names whatsoever.

What I did do was to express my unwillingness to encourage anyone to become a drug user. And I think it's foolish to demand our society to encourage it for a plethora of reasons.

This viewpoint actually comes from a heart of compassion for others, and doesn't warrant the moral high horse comments.

Mike, MJ is not the harmless substance you attempt to purvey it as. And our children certainly don't need to hear that kind of crap. That will only add to the rebellion.

Like any mind-altering drug, it carries a list of negative side effects with it, and this is indisputable. But you're free to believe whatever you choose.

That's the truth...we can see the same behavior in alcohol users...oh wait alcohol doesn't have medicinal properties. Wait...what about caffeine?...oh yeah, no medicinal properties. How about sugar loaded soda?...Oops my fault, no medicinal properties.

Video games maybe?...no. Fried food?...nope. I can't help but wonder, what part of our social acceptance is actually a healing element???

Whatever you do, make sure you punish the responsible person for those that are irresponsible. After all I'm ok with having to pay higher hunting and fishing license fees to compensate for the poachers.

WW and Jawbow, Do you guys ever wonder why people hate ALL hunters? they clump us all into the same group as the abusers and thrill killers. Bowhunters are worse because the animal ALWAYS suffers! I'm sure you agree since you are bowhunters??

Open your minds a bit...not everyone is an immoral loser because you don't agree. You don't hear about the responsible folks, cuz' they don't do stupid s**t that brings attention to themselves.

"What I did do was to express my unwillingness to encourage anyone to become a drug user. And I think it's foolish to demand our society to encourage it for a plethora of reasons"

Why don't you have the entire world of "herbal supplements" put on trial? What do you consider a drug user? One that uses something you disagree with , or one that uses something your government has deemed "problematic"?

In Missouri you will be arrested for it...You will be punished in some way I guarantee you.

There is a guy here doing life in prison over pot.

"some would contend that you are supporting the dem's agenda by default if you don't vote against them."

Registered republican here.

Obama is for legalizing it? I don't think so. See link.

However many up and coming republicans are against the drug war such as Rand Paul, Thomas Massie. I personally know ALOT of republican voters who are against the drug war.

"Many are bound by the power of that drug. Or in other words, they are slaves to it. They aren't free, and many of them will even admit it."

And so we should put them in a cage? Well that makes complete sense...LOL

They need help not a cage and a criminal record that will follow them the rest of their life. That's the opposite of helping them.

Drugs are an education and healthcare problem and it will not, cannot be solved by using the criminal justice system.

That's why the war on drugs is a failure in every way that you can measure it.

Oh, wait...I forgot about the poison apple. I forgot it's all about the test of morality! LOL!!!

As to it's effects, it is much less *mind altering* than any of the anti-depressants on the market.

Although I quoted you, my comments should have been more generally directed at the forum rather than you as an individual. My apologies for that.

People often say that MJ is so much more powerful today than it was 20 yrs. ago, and that could be true in some respects, as methods for cultivation have improved greatly over the years.

Still, just as if someone wants to have a drink, they have many options available to them from beer to black market 100+ Proof Kentucky Moonshine.

In my case, I'm 55, permanently disabled by disease, and have been a daily user of MJ to control the symptoms for over 7 years. I've raised my own, and taught many other patients how to raise their own medicine; some with cancer, and others with everything from Tourette's to MS. I've also researched MJ from one end to the other, and have even crossbred my own strain specifically designed to treat the physical manifestations Meniere's.

In other words, I know what the heck I'm talking about.

Is it a perfect substance without even the slightest side effect? No, but then find one that is. For bad side effects from long term use check out nicotine, caffeine, salt, etc.

Jasen, like any thread here on the Bowsite, I had a choice whether to comment in this one, or not. I decided to take the risk and share my viewpoint on the matter knowing it might go against the grain. I decided that truth and facts might serve the site members better than by my keeping quiet. Having been a member of the Bowsite/Leatherwall going back some 16 years I've never once been afraid to speak truth, and didn't see any reason not to, even if it's not popular. I did get a bit cheeky in some of my comments, but I truly meant no disrespect for anyone, rather I disagree with some opinions on the issue.

Let's give it a few years of being legal in Co. and Wa., and then reconsider the statistics. I'd wager that they'll be very, very few new users as a result of legalizing it, and the only other thing that will change is those that have been using it will no longer be subject to fines or imprisonment.

If it has indeed become the blight on society that so many fear, then the people will have no problem repealing the legalization laws, and I'll be voting to repeal the laws right along with them.

Until that time, it is my sincere prayer that the law enforcement agencies will make more progress getting the truly dangerous drugs off the market...the ones like heroin and meth that actually kill people.

Irresponsible losers anyway you cut it. NOTHING is ever their fault.

So please, spare me your bullsh*t.

""Bong seller and candidate for mayor of Maui, Beau Hawkes, was tased in the middle of the street last week. The episode was captured on camera by a pedestrian.""

Again, show me ANY current cases of someone going to prison for MJ use.

No answer to the patent medicine argument? Of course not. It's just the latest case of the "cure for everything" being sold to the gullible.

The derogatory terms are not needed WW. I'm no more of a "stoner advocate" than you are. You have no idea of the successes I've had, or the sacrifices I've had to make in life, yet you call me "irresponsible".

Screw you.

HA: You actually believe that possession of MJ won't land someone in prison?

http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=27436

I love this site, but it appears I no longer share the same values as the members, and that really stinks. So, rather than continue this discussion, I'll leave it as is as I've got nothing more to add.

And you have no idea of the bullsh*t I'VE had to deal with and what it's cost me because of these people so the screw turns both ways.

Give the guy a break, it's the MJ posting.;)

I ran a business for 11 years and never once hired someone that I suspected of being a waste of space. I've been in the working world long enough the be able to tell whether someone has a good work ethic or not. My time and money were too valuable to waste on poor hiring techniques.

"You stoner advocates can keep flapping your jaws from now until kingdom come, but having run a business for almost 40 years I've dealt with a LOT of young people and the stoners I can tell you unequivocally I HAVE NO USE FOR!!! Irresponsible losers anyway you cut it. NOTHING is ever their fault.

So please, spare me your bullsh*t."

WW, perhaps you should consider a good toke or two...it might help calm that temper down a bit!! LOL!

"It should be noted that when a person is caught with less than 1 gram of marijuana the fine in San Antonio (for punishment alone) is generally about $250 and thus is not generally assessed at the maximum. Similarly, a person that is caught with less than 1 gram of marijuana will usually receive probation and will not face the 6 months of jail time that is set out in the Texas Penal Code."

While the law allows for jail time for 2oz or less, you will have a hard time showing me any cases where the time was actually served. It will be a fine and probation unless the person is a serial perp.

When I was in college I went on a school field trip to Mexico to tour some cattle ranches. One of the a-holes in our group actually talked about "buying some sh*t" and taking it back home. We about wanted to kill him. That's all we needed was to spend the next 10 years in a Mexican jail as Jose's bitch boys.

I've seen stoners give that sh*t to their pets, kids, and sneak it into food without telling other people. Yeah....THAT'S responsible!

It's that kind of bullsh*t that is what my experience has been with the majority of stoners I've known, and it obviously hasn't changed!

You will hurt some feelings here with that kind of talk :)

Bong logic at it's best.

Phelps has more gold then any other Olympian in history.

Steve Jobs is a giant himself.

Seems I have heard this notion somewhere else.

Yep, that's the same stance to take away your guns.

Funny how freedom only applies to those things that only YOU feel should be free.

So far you've been very quick at jumping to conclusions and accusing posters of saying things they haven't said or even alluded to. And you've been disrespectful and insulting to posters who hadn't said a thing to you.

Your behavior here tells me that you're compelled to justify your use of medical MJ. I'll let you figure out what that indicates...

Irresponsibilty and weed are more often than not the norm. They get stoned and drive, TO work, FROM work, before going to their kid's school function, when their wives just had a baby, etc.

Oh yes...good life choice.

There has not been one Guide called in for a random drug test this season on the docks that I know of.

The USCG is only testing in accident situations like they have always done.

Doesn't that tell you something ?

Not buying into it Jawbone. Said I was done discussing the subject, and I meant it. Apparently you failed to read that sentence, just as you failed to read the things I responded to. No matter what anyone else says, you will never change your opinion, so why should I waste my time sharing actual facts? (rhetorical)

BTW: BullSac nailed it. +1

"I've seen stoners give that sh*t to their pets, kids, and sneak it into food without telling other people. Yeah....THAT'S responsible!"

"It's that kind of bullsh*t that is what my experience has been with the majority of stoners I've known, and it obviously hasn't changed!"

"And EVERY loser I've ever known was also a stoner. Funny how that works."

"A "few" Bullsac?? You don't know the stoners I've known. It more than a few. It's more like the majority. Irresponsibilty and weed are more often than not the norm. They get stoned and drive, TO work, FROM work, before going to their kid's school function, when their wives just had a baby, etc. Oh yes...good life choice."

Damn WW...If you witness your friends giving it to their kids...you need to intervene!!! I hope you aren't THAT WEAK!!!

No offense man, but I think there is a little bit more to your negative opinion of pot than just a few bad apples. If one didn't know better they would think you had a life changing experience that you blame pot for. This thread took the path of being accepting of different things in life. You're highly focused on the pot...are you a closet smoker? If you're trying to convince everyone that you are anti-pot...you're trying too hard. Maybe you need an intervention?... Or maybe you just need an alibi?! WOW!

None the less, may the upcoming fall run be hardy, and the bulls be bugling for you...

And if we don't favor our children & loved ones using drugs, then we must be anti-second amendment. Yeah, right...

This much we can count on: The black market will always undercut government sales. Legalizing it only fuels the demand....

It has been over 100 years since the beginning of the journey to fluoride in drinking water.

There is no doubt that fluoride in water has prevented millions of cavities. It is impossible to prove that fluoride or anything else is 100% safe. With the millions who have consumed fluoride treated water, it should be obvious if there is any real danger from the recommended dosages.

Random drug testing rules are mainly for Pot ....

Even the USCG sees the Tide has turned ... pun intended !!!!

As I stated earlier, it is possible to prove efficacy, but impossible to prove total safety. The ill effects of anything may not show up for many years, or be so rare that they do not show up in any reasonable-sized sample.

The purpose of a double blind study is to eliminate the placebo effect and bias from both patient and researcher. With the fluoride, there is plenty of proof that it prevents cavities.

Since the topic is MJ, the advantage of studies would be to isolate the active ingredient and assess its effects on a particular medical condition that people claim that it helps. MJ contains hundreds of chemicals (maybe even fluoride depending on where it is grown). Which ones are helpful and which harmful? Can you imagine going to a doctor and having him write a prescription telling the pharmacist to just grab 100 different pills, mix their contents, and tell you to take as many as you want until you feel better? None of us would be stupid enough to take them, but that is essentially what an MJ smoker does.

For the vast majority of supposed medical MJ users, it is a combination (one or more) of no real medical problem, getting high makes them happy, getting high makes them not really care, or the placebo effect.

That does NOT imply or prove that there are no possible medical benefits of MJ.

Started off my day with a 2 hr. trip to the vomitorium, and now that the nasty part of the day is (hopefully) over, maybe I can get through the rest of the day just being uber-dizzy and feeling like shiat.

Figured with things going so well, I can at least try to occupy some time chatting with good friends here on the Bowsite CF. ;)

**********************

Hard to keep my keyboard quiet with the ridiculous rationalizations being used by some in order to justify their position on the subject.

Thank you Spike. I knew some would be trying to stone me for speaking out before I ever joined the thread, but never expected people to stoop so low. The level of hubris shown by some makes me wanna barf (some more).

Jawbone: " I had to endure your prejudice and disrespect in every post to do it...."

Imagine how I feel.

BTW, I re-read every one of my posts, and honestly can't find a single instance of seriously disrespecting you. I've tolerated your "passive/aggressive" debate approach in hopes of actually getting some facts injected into the discussion, but when I saw that was a waste of time, I stopped.

The only person I expressed any level of anger at was WW; I may be disabled, but he got personal, and I'm still a proud man.

I have to wonder how this thread would have gone if every post/assertion had to be backed up with verifiable, scientific facts?

HA/KS: Cannabis is said to contain about 66 unique cannabinoids, and those are the keys to the medical benefits. Not sure if you saw it, but in Colorado a group of growers have successfully bred a strain that is, for all purposes, void of THC but very high in cannabinoids. This strain is known as "Charlotte's Web", and is what those parents are using to treat the epilepsy and seizures their children have had to endure.

You could smoke an ounce of "Charlotte's Web" and the closest you'll get to a "buzz" is a bad headache.

Just to re-clarify an earlier comment of mine: I am NOT a fan of making MJ available to minors, but I am in favor of making it legally available to adults.

And, yeah, Bullsac nailed it. Some of you guys are using the exact same logic used by the gun banning leftists who favor the heavy thumb approach to social engineering. Surely not intentional but good intentions are not a salve for liberty lost or principles compromised.

When you entered into here, I was trying to give my take on government sponsored & approved recreational MJ use. Yet another disaster in the making...... ;^)

You did misread my intentions, and in doing so, you interjected yourself into a thought line that didn't pertain to your circumstances.

It took me a while to indentify that impending problem since I didn't know where you were coming from at that time. (e.g. This is a difficult venue to relate on things like this)

I won't comment much on doctor prescribed MJ in this venue for that reason, since the risks of being misread are far too great.

To cut to the quick, we have a loving Father Who is patient with us, for His undying love for us demands that of Him. If you can find that to be true, and hang tight to that, then I'm confident that everything else will fall into place for you....

That's what I do for a living... ;^)

The fact that research does not uncover all potential problems with a drug does not negate the fact that research is important. If you took the time to read I went on to point out that research can prove efficacy but it can never rule out all potential harms.

Agreed 100%. There is always some chance that stuff can happen, no mater how well it's been tested. Anecdotally, Cannabis has a 3000+ year history of little to no side effects to any person using it, but you are correct in saying that nothing is 100% safe. Even Aspirin will kill ya if ya take too much..fortunately not the case with MJ, but yes, there could be someone, somewhere that would have a bad reaction to the plant.

Considering it's history, I doubt that's the case with MJ, and hopefully the US Gov't will begin to allow the American pharmaceutical industry to find new medicines from the MJ plant.

JawBow: If you can go back about 14 years in the archives you'll find me posting under the username of "Bible Thumper".

FWIW, I don't think the percentage of the population using MJ would change more than change one or two percent even if the Gov't said it was legal. Anyone who wants it can already get it, and that wouldn't change regardless of the legal status. Same folks would just be using it legally instead of illegally.

They used the same argument to end prohibition, but it turned out to be very untrue. That does not mean that prohibition was a good idea, just that the argument does not hold water.

There's always an endless string of "what if's" we could debate, but since no one's going to change their opinion, how about we all just save our breaths and move on to a better topic.