At least with voting you have a chance to defeat it.
Just saying.
Dems, Republicans, Independents, Conservatives, Libertarian, far right, far left all piss me off!
It is no longer about "all of AMERICA" to any of them! All are agenda driven and without courage and honor.
I am really contemplating whether it is even worth the expended energy to try and make a difference because no matter how much effort is expended we keep going down the same path faster and faster. We may slow for a while but then its game on again and the slip and slide gets some fresh water!
Commonsense, reasoning, history and forethought are things of the past!
I am sick of it!
I do believe the Repugs are setting themselves up to lose with this immigration deal.
Why are they not screaming out the fact that none of the current border problems would exist if we smply followed the Constitutionand enforced our existing immigration laws?
Why are they not?
Really? They have said that for years and it falls on deaf ears and is repetitive and no one listens to it anyway!
Mint's Link
This is an election year, and these votes are largely grandstanding on both sides.
The GOP controls one half of one third of the federal government. The lack of control of the borders is not the fault of people who control nothing. Should Bush have done more to secure the borders? Yes. Could they get such a bill through Congress at the time? No.
For the border to be secure, there will need to be money allocated to do so. And they haven't had the votes to get anything on border security passed and turned into law.
The EGOP is often stupid, but your rantings can be equally dense. This is one of those times.
Narlyhorn's Link
But, but, Karl Marx never killed anyone. LOL
BK,
What you said about an election year and bills dying is EXACTLY the problem with our spineless unprincipled politicians.
The next election should have NOTHING to do with how a person votes on a bill or whether it even gets to a vote and IMO that is what is wrong with our Govt. They are all worried about loosing so they punk out like the POS cowards they are.
In fact...I would bet some of those people know damn good and well how they vote is not how they really feel deep down but they do it anyway because not doing so will cost them the next election. They sell their soul to the devil so they can win reelection!
POC loser politicians piss me off! Gezz I am actually getting worked up. Time for a break.
;o)
""Force the Repugs, the most right of the two progressive parties, to recognize and allow participation of all the people they expect to use as a base by forcing them, through non-participation in their scam, to hold free and fair nomination processes, which they have NOT done for years.
Our absents will weaken them and they will have to concede. The unintended consequences are regrettable but not as bad as continueing toi allow them to run roughshod over us with the usual gambit of Repug/Demos BS.""
Thankfully the conservatives in the house vote against and try to do everything they can to stop the beltway crowd, if they followed your plan ""non-participation & absents"", like Obama being voted in, the Dems and Rino's would get everything they want.
How is a vote for a third party candidate a wasted vote? Unless you vote in a battleground state, that is just inaccurate.
Take California for example. It is about as dark blue as one state can get. NY, Ill., also come to mind. Voting for the lesser of two evils in one of those states accomplishes what?
That my friend, is not only a wasted vote, but a wasted opportunity to send a clear message to the GOP and give more legitimacy and bigger voices to more conservative third party or independent candidates. This is the only way to break a broken two party duopoly and create a real choice in presidential elections. I think that would apply to both the general and primary elections.
I can see the wasted vote argument cut both ways. Depends on where you live.
If the ERepublican Party wants to continue to go down the path of Dem-lite and ignore the large number of would-be Republican voters and independents by fighting harder to deny conservative/TEA Party voice that nominally would be in their camp, so be it.
I will take my vote and vote conscience for those candidates that hold my political views knowing that there is slim chance that they will unseat either the ERep or Dem running. And, push come to shove, will vote for the Dem Party rather than weak spine'd Republicans who fear a TEA Party candidate more than a progressive socialist.
Maybe if the Republicans loose some elections due to loss of their base support, they may realize that to be an opposition party, they must oppose those who would disassemble our Constitution.
If the country is going to be flushed down the drain, I would rather see it sooner than later. There are many who are being pushed into a corner when it comes to basic freedoms and there will come a tipping point where it is recognized that a Second Revolution is necessary. Sooner, because enough people understand what we are loosing under the Obamafication of this country.
Narly,
All I can say is it would NOT be a wasted vote if it was close. Lets say 1/3rd of the vote was going to the 3rd but they still just barley lost. Then it would send a message and I would take no issue with it. Problem is no 3rd party even gets remotely close no matter how hard I, you or anyone else tries. I think I had more votes when I was captain of the football team than most 3rders get.
Sooooo.....You're left with a choice. Do I vote for the guy I do not like so much or vote for the guy I hate with a passion and stands for everything I am against? Well given the options you vote for the guy that will NOT destroy the America we all cherish in just 8 years like Obama has and will continue to do. Then you set out to keep that tool in check and also change the thinking of others so you can eventually get your guy in office. How the hell do we think the FAR LEFT was able to get Obama in? They are smarter than moronic republicans.
The time for 3rd party can be now and I wish it was and they could win with enough support but IMO we missed that boat 20 years ago and it will take a total collapse of our very way of life to make a 3rd viable.
If 10% of republicans cast their vote for a 3rd that will not, cannot, and never could win then we give the dems the perfect platform to win and claim a mandate. That 10% sent a message that was NEVER heard.
If I was the republicans I would focus every ounce of strength and energy I had on local and state elections for the long term. You change it at the local level then the state then the federal. It is the only way to do it now. Many politicians work they were up the ladder... soooooo get the right kind in early and let them work their way up.
It is one of the tactics used by leftists. They encourage libertarians or any other candidates that will split off part of the anti-democrat vote.
Think of all the groups leftists have started with conservative or TEA in their name that are anything but conservative or tea party in their philosophy. They do this to siphon funds away from true conservative and opposition groups.
As pointed out above, what would happen if the conservatives in congress just didn't vote. What other bills would have passed?
Most do not want to admit it, but we have Dem shills amongst us.
Third party voters are not the problem. Is it those in your own party who abstain? I have no problem with you railing on them, just leave 3rd party voters out of it. I'll ask you again. Why do you keep blaming conservatives who vote a 3rd party? Does a truly conservative party really exist? I think those that believe that are kidding themselves.
Republicans have had ample opportunity to show they support smaller government, fiscal responsibility and the intent of the Constitution. They went Dem lite as AM describes instead. Hold your leadership accountable.
Hammer, outside of battleground states, "if it was close", I hear no valid reason to cast a vote for Dem lite. In most states, that is not the case unless more states become purple. So it sounds to me as if you agree with that premise. Glad you take no issue with voting 3rd party when that is not the case. This is the failed strategy of the vote for the lesser of two evil argument. Conservative Republicans then have an opportunity to send a message to their party but won't. So maybe I'm not as wrong as you indicated.
I tend to agree with your state, local level premise as well. However, as long as the Feds exceed their enumerated powers and get away with it, state and local governments are their subjects. Many of the best candidates in that regard are also 3rd party or independent candidates. They face the same obstacles in regard to the two party duopoly. They are demonized at the national level as they climb the ladder and are inclined to merge into the Republican party where they can be effectively managed.
Right and wrong IMO. If all conservatives, libertarian, republicans and independents who voted 3rd in the recent elections voted for Romney plus conservatives, libertarians, republicans and independents that stayed home and said screw it also voted the Republican wins very easy.
If Romney had received the votes other candidates got he only looses the popular vote by 3 million votes but then add the tools that stayed home who are registered and he wins easy! By the way who ran on the ticket against Obama on the dem side? ding ding ding. They are smarter than us!
"Is it those in your own party who abstain? I have no problem with you railing on them, just leave 3rd party voters out of it"
I am a registered independent with conservative philosophy but lets take a closer look at the party breakdowns. There are a lot of republicans that are conservative or libertarian in their views but they are registered to vote as a Republican. It is not a different group in that aspect. Some of them get the red azz and stay home and it is a vote lost so to speak. Many independents do the same damn thing. Many vote for the true conservative or libertarian even though they know it will not be an effective vote. Either that or they stay home.
So yes I think saying the strategy of the conservatives and libertarians is to blame regardless of their registration status in that aspect IMO is foolish because it is not working under its current approach. Hell it is not even coming close to working. If it was even close at all then sure but gezzz it is a grubbing every time. If it was a sports game it would be stopped on the mercy rule inside of the 1st 30 seconds.
If the 3rd party candidate was so great and viable in any battle ground state then why cant they get enough votes to make it closer than the earth is to the moon? Most people realize this and instead they just don't vote but 3 million did. However the cumulative effect is it pulls just enough votes away from the guy who could win that it ends up giving us a dictator. Why? All because the lessor of two evil cannot be swallowed? That is insane IMO. No message is being sent at all doing this!
Now....I never said it was all the fault of people who vote a certain ways. I said those and those who just don't vote because their candidate is not perfect is the cause. They are from the same group ideologically regardless of whether they are Republicans or Independents.
As to the local and state level. If you work your way up and do a good job and conservative ideals really do work then they can be demonized all people want and it wont work because the record of accomplishment would be so overwhelming that people would say that works better. Just saying.
Lastly, I hate to be a kill joy and such a pessimist but I am spent and have nearly given up. It wont get better IMO. It will get worse until we fail! Sure we will make gains here and there but overall the trajectory is downward and the people that mattered in this are old now and will be gone soon. We will be left with the spoiled brat, irresponsible, gimmie mine, nothing is my fault, historically uneducated, big government, give up a freedom here and there for the betterment generations that will be doing the voting from now on. If we cannot change the course of the USA within the next 20 years it CANNOT be changed IMO. The only way to do so after that is a total collapse and a reset that makes people look in the mirror and see the flaw in logic that put us there and a reeducation of our history. Usually a country does not ever come back the same once they fail the way we are. John Adams words ring in my ear...."but a constitution of government once changed from freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever."
The USA with our unique and great history and young country might be able to if it happens soon enough where our true history can be looked back on. We are the only ones who maybe ever actually could pull it off but the odds are low even for us IMO. They get lower and lower each year as we move away from our great history. If the history continues to be erased and altered we are doomed and would not be able to recover.
You see IMO kids now are NOT taught that same history of sacrifice, pride and love of country we, our parents and theirs were taught. Instead they are taught a lie that barely even references the true facts that made us what we were. If we cannot reverse course soon then what chance would they have when they do not know the history? Do you see?
-You are right, slade. The folks who would vote for a Democrat in (R) clothing are accomplishing nothing but growing the state - the ultimate leftist goal. But, hey, at least you didn't "throw your vote away."
See how that works? We've all been around the track to many times to keep playing the blame game. It just is not helping.
I have long stated it is probably too late to change the statist/progressive direction of American politics. So I agree on that point.
It is pointless to blame and argue why. The under informed/educated American is why. Let them eat cake, they cast their lot, they made their bed..., sorry, but I'm not following them. We must have a viable alternative to the status quo. It is the only way.
The founders fought the most powerful government and military in the world for their freedom. I will do the same. Washington doubted the Constitution would exist in 20 years time. Although still printed, it isn't followed. I'm expected to believe the R party will? Let me know when that happens brother and I will gladly ride the rails to freedom with you.
Agreed! The problem is most dolts in the USA do not realize the viable alternative is standing right in front of them so they vote for the lessor of two evils. I get that and wish it wasn't that way but it is.
I only disagree with the notion that at this point staying home and/or voting for a guy who will never win will have any positive effect. I think we (those smart enough to see Americas course) have given the Dems the perfect scenario to win and to keep winning. It is a hard problem to fix because peoples ideology and thinking must change and that is one hard thing to alter.
" Let me know when that happens brother and I will gladly ride the rails to freedom with you. "
I would be glad to ride that rail my friend. Hopefully one day (before we are dead) we can look back with relief and say "thank God we all woke up when we did."
I don't see that happening so that is why I get a little pessimistic at times.
I truly believe the American people are the smartest dumbest people on this earth. I think history will record what we allowed to happen and the footnote will be that we were all MORONS.
Yet no hesitation and downright disrespect from blue state Republicans who do just that when voting for their party shill.
My head is slower than usual today. Please elaborate on what you last posted. It kind of lost me. What did you mean exactly?
Sometimes you have to make alliances to stop a more immediate threat - or just surrender to that threat.
Is there a cost to that? Absolutely! Would the US be better off losing the war to hitler or winning it with Stalin?
"A guy who will never win". A self fulfilling prophecy?
If one keeps telling themselves a candidate can't win and votes for the lesser of two evils, is it a self fulfilling prophecy?
Yet no hesitation and downright disrespect from blue state Republicans who do just that when voting for their party shill.
Sophomoric ball taker comments and Dem shill comments are disrespectful and voting for an R in a heavily blue state is voting for someone who can't win too. Pot meet kettle so to speak. It would be far more beneficial to vote to shake up the political landscape within the GOP in those instances.
Establishment R's appear to be more bedfellows of my enemy than enemies of them.
Plenty of republicans are for legalizing MJ. Obama sure isn't helping. Even if democrats were the party of legal MJ and the republicans wasn't, I still wouldn't vote democrat. If the republicans are smart they will ALL come out in favor of legalization. The majority of people want it legalized. We can't let the democrats take this issue from us and the votes. So far I would say republicans are garnering more support for legalization then Dems. The only republicans that are not for legalization are neocons like Christie and so on and we don't want them anyway.
As far as open borders. Hey you tell me what we should do. I am not for building like a Berlin wall to keep people out as well as us in. As far as I can tell no party wants to seal the border.
Thanks man. I got it.
I agree with you believe it or not but when the guy is gonna get beat something terrible it boxes us in and leaves only two choices IMO. That is a very hard thing to change and overcome. If the 3rd party person has even a snowballs chance in hell of winning I am all for it.
I want to preserve our way of life for the future and letting Obama win which IMO is what we did only made things much worse in the end and sped up our demise.
Now we have to fix things real fast and that's gonna be nearly impossible without a collapse of some kind because we are now wayyyy outnumbered. That's my view of it anyway.
No more lesser weasels for me.
From the link:
"...this is the baseline in Kentucky: McConnell is consistently polling below 50 percent, an indicator of trouble for any incumbent. His Democrat challenger, however, has been unable to take advantage of McConnell’s weakness because Democrat Party policies are so far to the left — not just culturally out of touch with Kentucky voters’ values, but directly opposed to their economic interests.
So a weird sort of stalemate grips the campaign, and we await the turning point that will decide the election. The lamentable part of this situation, from the GOP perspective, is that McConnell and the National Republican Senatorial Committee have spent the past 18 months crushing the enthusiasm of grassroots conservatives, waging a campaign to exterminate the Tea Party. The arguably criminal — certainly dishonest and unethical — conduct of the Mississippi primary campaign to re-elect Thad Cochran was witnessed by every Tea Party activist in the country, Kentucky included. Every deceitful smear against Chris McDaniel in Mississippi was a deliberate “f–k you” to grassroots conservatives, courtesy of the D.C.-based Republican political establishment of which Mitch McConnell is the official leader. If it weren’t for this factor — the transparent selfishness and corruption of McConnell and his GOP Senate cronies — the Senate race in Kentucky would not even be close. The major obstacle to McConnell’s re-election is not the usual problem of wooing undecided “swing” voters; his problem is that many thousands of Kentucky conservatives have little motive to vote for him in November.
Article worth reading...bottom line, the EGOP has demonstrated that it will spend much more effort targeting the conservative base instead of focusing on the true enemies of this country...the progressive leftist obamanistas. And (from the article)perhaps it is time to use the same tactics they use against them.
-And they feel like this strategy will work because they expect conservatives will hold their noses and vote (R) no matter who it is.
