Bowsite.com

From Mokarena @ COTR:

"There is no way I can fully express how much I love this post from Mike Rowe, which addresses Howard Dean's absurd comments about Scott Walker's college education (or lack thereof). I've reposted it here in its entirety, but for the love of Pete, if you're not following Mike Rowe on FB then WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?

Off The Wall

Kyle Smith writes...

"Howard Dean recently criticized Gov Scott Walker for never finishing college, stating that he was "unknowledgeable." What would your response be on college as a requirement for elected office?

'Hi Kyle.

Back in 1990, The QVC Cable Shopping Channel was conducting a national talent search. I had no qualifications to speak of, but I needed a job, and thought TV might be a fun way to pay the bills. So I showed up at The Marriott in downtown Baltimore with a few hundred other hopefuls, and waited for a chance to audition. When it was my turn, the elevator took me to the top floor, where a man no expression led me into a suite and asked me to take a seat behind a large desk. Across from the desk, there was a camera on a tripod. On the desk was a digital timer with an LED display. I took a seat as the man clipped a microphone on my shirt and explained the situation.

“The purpose of this audition is to see if you can talk for eight minutes without stuttering, blathering, passing out, or throwing up. Any questions?”

“What would you like me to talk about,” I asked.

The man pulled a pencil from behind his ear and rolled it across the desk. “Talk to me about that pencil. Sell it. Make me want it. But be yourself. If you can do that for eight minutes, the job is yours. Ok?”

I looked at the pencil. It was yellow. It had a point on one end, and an eraser on the other. On the side were the words, Dixon Ticonderoga Number 2 SOFT.

“Ok,” I said.

The man set the timer to 8:00, and walked behind the tripod. He pressed a button and a red light appeared on the camera. He pressed another button and the timer began to count backwards. “Action,” he said. I picked up the pencil and started talking.

“Hi there. My name’s Mike Rowe, and I only have eight minutes to tell you why this is finest pencil on Planet Earth. So let’s get right to it.”

I opened the desk drawer and found a piece of hotel stationary, right where I hoped it would be. I picked up the pencil and wrote the word, QUALITY in capital letters. I held the paper toward the camera.

“As you can plainly see, The #2 Dixon Ticonderoga leaves a bold, unmistakable line, far superior to the thin and wispy wake left by the #3, or the fat, sloppy skid mark of the unwieldy #1. Best of all, the Ticonderoga is not filled with actual lead, but “madagascar graphite,” a far safer alternative for anyone who likes to chew on their writing implements.”

To underscore the claim, I licked the point. I then discussed the many advantages of the Ticonderoga’s color.

“A vibrant yellow, perfectly suited for an object that needs to stand out from the clutter of a desk drawer.”

I commented on the comfort of it’s design.

“Unlike those completely round pencils that press hard into the web of your hand, the Ticonderoga’s circumference is comprised of eight, gently plained surfaces, which dramatically reduce fatigue, and make writing for extended periods an absolute delight.”

I pointed out the “enhanced eraser,” which was “guaranteed to still be there - even when the pencil was sharpened down to an unusable nub.”

I opined about handmade craftsmanship and American made quality. I talked about the feel of real wood.

“In a world overrun with plastic and high tech gadgets, isn’t it comforting to know that some things haven’t evolved into something shiny and gleaming and completely unrecognizable?’”

After all that, there was still five minutes on the timer. So I shifted gears and considered the pencil’s impact on Western Civilization. I spoke of Picasso and Van Gogh, and their hundreds of priceless drawings - all done in pencil. I talked about Einstein and Hawking, and their many complicated theories and theorems - all done in pencil.

“Pen and ink are fine for memorializing contracts,” I said, “but real progress relies on the ability to erase and start anew. Archimedes said he could move the world with a lever long enough, but when it came to proving it, he needed a pencil to make the point.”

With three minutes remaining, I moved on to some personal recollections about the role of pencils in my own life. My first legible signature, my first book report, my first crossword puzzle, and of course, my first love letter. I may have even worked up a tear as I recalled the innocence of my youth, scribbled out on a piece of looseleaf with all the hope and passion a desperate 6th grader could muster...courtesy of a #2 pencil.

With :30 seconds left on the timer, I looked fondly at the Dixon Ticonderoga, and sat silently for five seconds. Then I wrapped it up.

“We call it a pencil, because all things need a name. But today, let’s call it what it really is. A time machine. A match maker. A magic wand. And let’s say it can all be yours...for just .99 cents.”

The timer read 0:00. The man walked back to the desk. He took the pencil and wrote “YOU’RE HIRED” on the stationary, and few days later, I moved to West Chester, PA. And a few days after that, I was on live television, face to face with the never-ending parade of trinkets and chotchkies that comprise QVC’s overnight inventory.

I spent three months on the graveyard shift, five nights a week. Technically, this was my training period, which was curious, given the conspicuous absence of supervision, or anything that could be confused with actual instruction. Every few minutes a stagehand would bring me another mysterious “must have item,” which I’d blather about nonsensically until it was whisked away and replaced with something no less baffling. In this way, I slowly uncovered the mysteries of my job, and forged a tenuous relationship with an audience of chronic insomniacs and narcoleptic lonely-hearts. It was a crucible of confusion and ambiguity, and in hindsight, the best training I ever had.

Which brings me to the point of your question, Kyle. I don’t agree with Howard Dean - not at all.

Here’s what I didn’t understand 25 years ago. QVC had a serious recruiting problem. Qualified candidates were applying in droves, but failing miserably on the air. Polished salespeople with proven track records were awkward on TV. Professional actors with extensive credits couldn’t be themselves on camera. And seasoned hosts who understood live television had no experience hawking products. So eventually, QVC hit the reset button. They stopped looking for “qualified” people, and started looking for anyone who could talk about a pencil for eight minutes.

QVC had confused qualifications with competency. (emphasis mine)

Perhaps America has done something similar?

Look at how we hire help - it’s no so different than how we elect leaders. We search for work ethic on resumes. We look for intelligence in test scores. We search for character in references. And of course, we look at a four-year diploma as though it might actually tell us something about common-sense and leadership.

Obviously, we need a bit more from our elected officials than the instincts of a home shopping host, but the business of determining what those “qualifications” are is completely up to us. We get to decide what matters most. We get to decide if a college degree or military service is somehow determinative. We get to decide if Howard Dean is correct.

Anyone familiar with my foundation knows my position. I think a trillion dollars of student loans and a massive skills gap are precisely what happens to a society that actively promotes one form of education as the best course for the most people. I think the stigmas and stereotypes that keep so many people from pursuing a truly useful skill, begin with the mistaken belief that a four-year degree is somehow superior to all other forms of learning. And I think that making elected office contingent on a college degree is maybe the worst idea I’ve ever heard.

But of course, Howard Dean is not the real problem. He’s just one guy. And he’s absolutely right when he says that many others will judge Scott Walker for not finishing college. That's the real problem.

However - when Howard Dean called the Governor “unknowledgeable,” he rolled out more than a stereotype. He rolled a pencil across the desk, and gave Scott Walker eight minutes to knock it out of the park.

It’ll be fun to see if he does."

"QVC had confused qualifications with competency"... it happens all the time. (Even on the Bowsite.)

thanks kyle

One of the very best managers I've ever known is my best friend. West Point, two tours in Vietnam w/a Silver Star. Became my first boss and one of the best managers in our Fortune 100 company.

At the other end, one of the other best managers I've ever known is on the board of a highly respected international sportsman-supported conservation organization of which I am also a board member.

He has a high school diploma only. He never went to college at all and he started as an outfitter in Idaho. He went on to build an amazingly successful company that provides services and equipment for the nuclear energy industry. He's an absolutely incredible guy with a success story that more than exemplifies The American Dream.

Howard Dean and his elitist ilk can go pound sand!

Mark Zuckerberg

Steve Jobs

Idiots, all! lol

Better to have a 'community organizer' run stuff.

Esp. a 'community organizer' who has spent $2,300,000 in legal fees to keep anyone from seeing his academic records when he was at Occidental, Columbia and Harvard.

Yeah. And the worst thing is, they breed!

Here's a few that never finished high school JD Rockefeller Henry Ford Carnegie Frank Lloyd Wright Thomas Edison. Richard Branson Walt Disney Ray Kroc ( McDonald's )

"A society that places a higher value on its philosophers than it does on its plumbers shall have neither theories nor pipes that hold water."

I went to the school of hard knocks. Best education life can give a person.

But I strongly disagree with his statement, "Look at how we hire help - it’s no so different than how we elect leaders."

During my almost 40 year career, I've hired over a hundred individuals for positions that included post-graduate intel analysts, electrical and mechanical engineers, software developers, digital and RF technicians, and facilities maintenance personnel.

I've reviewed resumes that you would have sworn the person invented H2O and could also walk on it, as well as resumes that made you wonder if the individual even made it past the 3rd grade. I didn't look for work ethic in their resumes, nor for intelligence in their test scores. And a person's true character won't be found in their references.

But I did look for key points in those resumes that told me that the person at least met the criteria and qualifications for the position for which they were applying - be it from job experience, education, training, etc.

And here's where I most disagree with Mike. When I hired these individuals, I knew that if they didn't live up to their resumes or their claims that we discussed during the job interview, then I had an obligation to the company and my organization to show them the door. And that could be at any time during their employment.

If we as voters had that luxury with politicians, most would not last their initial 180 day probationary period.

One I remember pretty well. Really hit home at the time.

"If you don't stay in school you can forget all your hopes, 'cause you can't pull the strings if you don't know the ropes."

Mike obviously stayed in school. ;-)

Walker has done an admirable job of running Wisconsin. Obama has done an "admirable job" of ruining a good country.

The HR version of SSS.

She had a saying that addresses this topic very well:

"Do you know what they call the person who graduated last in his class at medical school?

"Doctor."

On the other hand, NOT graduating from med school guarantees that no one will call you doctor.

Unless you're dockeating, of course.

Joey....I ain't heard Nipsey Russell's name in 30 yrs I bet.

LOL!!!

some other notable college dropouts...

Opra Winfrey- is she still the richest woman in the world? Ted Turner- was expelled cause he had a girl in his dorm. Now the guy owns more elk hunting land than any of us could cover in a lifetime! Brad Pitt Russel Simmons Sean P Diddy Combs- worth something like 700 million Ralph Lauren- dropped out to join the Army. John Lennon

and these guys never even finished high school! Jim Carey- dropped out at 16. might be an anti gun lib bvut he took what he was given and made a great living for himself. Al Pacino- arguably one of the greatest actors ever... Wolfgang Puck- left at 14 to be a chefs apprentice. Walt Disney, and on and on.

But again, the stats don't lie. For average every day guys like myself who aren't born with the great singing voice or acting talent we better finish college. That said I went to a great college (Drake University), spent a ton of money (between my wife and I about 125k in total) and I don't use either of my degrees in either of the businesses I own. Ive actually been thinking of taking some online business courses or from the local comm college.

I have a Bachelor's of Science in Politcal Science with a minor in history from a state university. I've never used either in my business.

As Pat pointed out, all my degree did was give me a ticket to the first show, only in my case the show was run by USAF Lt. Colonels, Majors, Captains and experienced non-coms.

When I was getting out of the USAF, I went to a job fair where the all invitees were either MBAs or junior officers getting out of the service. I don't remember ever being asked to show my degree or transcripts. The companies I interviewed with were, however, quite interested in the five years I spent in the USAF because of the leadership skills, the discipline, and the ability to think on your feet you get in the service.

Any those of you who are all hell bent on the US Military, have you been on a base lately? Spent time there? Its nothing more than a glorified welfare system.

I have stressed to both of my kids, without a second language, you're behind. Without a degree, you're behind. You can quote all the "one offs" above, but the fact is many resumes hit the can if they don't see "X" degree.

I am retiring in 97 days and on May 29, 2015, the corporate world can kiss my white ass.

What you say may be true, but you're missing the whole point of the thread.

We're talking about whether or not having a piece of paper makes you any more or less intelligent or capable.

The recession proved that employers wanted life's experience and not the paper degree.

Old fashioned busting your ass will get you further than a degree.

Some of the laziest sonsabitches I've met have high degrees and guess what??

They bounce from Jon to job too because they don't know how to truly plow through life and climb the real ladder of success.

There were over 100 people in our purchasing department and I had the largest group. It was in the Denver Post that we were missing approximately 3/4 of a million dollars of equipment from the government site. One of the other leads was on vacation and I received a call from a user who wanted to check on the delivery of his equipment. I found the contract, gave him the information that he was looking for and, for my own information, decided to review how he wrote his contract.

I found that he did not follow procedures to advertise government owned equipment to other sites and he just traded it for new equipment without closing out the property number. When he got back from vacation I told him what I had found and he said that I was wrong. I showed him the procedure and he said, I've been doing this for years and so have the people working for me.

I disclosed to the procurement manager the situation and he said that it WAS the problem why they could not find the property. A week later the other lead retired.

There was an opening for a manager position and procurement people wanted me to get the position but I was told by personnel that I couldn't advanced any further because I didn't have a four year degree. Instead, they hired an absolute moron of a woman that was a CPA. She went so far as to require employees to call her or tell their secretary if they would be away from their desk to go to the bathroom. Work piled up on her desk because she didn't understand what to do with it.

I left the department and took on a new job for a department that contacted me for the position. They finally kicked her out because she had things so screwed up. Just goes to show you that a degree only gets you in the door but does not guarantee that you will be any good.

no diploma 8.5

diploma 5.4

some college 5.2

College degree 2.8

I agree that a degree does not make you smarter, it does not give you more common sense.

It does show that you are capable of carrying through with something over a period of time. It shows a certain level of persistence and work ethic that may or may not transfer to the career of your choice.

Just yesterday, I heard a caller to Dave Ramsey who said he had a degree, about $100,000 in debt, and was making less than $20,000. His degree? Creative writing or some such nonsense.

As pointed out above, a degree can open a door so you have a chance. Even if you get a job, many companies still require a degree to go beyond a certain fairly low level of responsibility.

When I decided that I wanted to be a teacher, having a degree allowed me to do it in three semesters and one summer. Without the degree, it would not have been possible for me to become a teacher.

I'm confused on this one? Is this implying that our military is taking advantage of a glorified welfare system or is geared towards the federal employed civilians who work there?

Being retired from active duty and now federal civilian side of the fence I'm having a hard time comprehending this statement?

Dilbert is often just too profoundly correct when it comes to too many things. It is the second site I open every morning.

I have to chuckle whenever I see stories about college grads not being able to find employment seeing just what majors have been created...women's studies, black studies, etc. Too many college degrees are offered in schools today that have become the real world equivalent of the old joke about a degree in "underwater basket weaving".

Sadly, far too many do not understand the greatest gift that our Internet technology has provided...the ability to learn something about most everything that piques ones interests. I have developed a personal philosophy that if one does not learn something new every day, one has let their brain begin to die.

Whether they go to college or not, it will pay dividends down the road.

Also, some people are not cut out for college. (ME). It's sad that so many employers place a higher importance on a sheepskin than on whether or not the person can do the job. I don't think anyone has mentioned the huge amount of debt that most people coming out of college have accrued, especially to be qualified for a $40,000 to $70,000 a year job. College is great for many people, but this mindset that you can't do well without a degree is BS.

I only graduated high school, but was willing to work harder & longer than others to get where I wanted to get living within my means. Other than the new hunting farm I bought last year, I am debt free & could choose to go on ALMOST any hunt on the planet if I chose to.

I don't say this to brag, only to say that if you are willing to put in the effort that you can achieve most things in life.

I appreciate it every day that my Dad took the time to teach me how to work & think while doing it.

Misty water-color memories......of the trolls that were....."