Having said that I should admit that one of my best friends is one of the old fashioned ones...but he is seriously carrying some firepower as almost everyone he talks to is armed....and usually drunk too. I am for sure on his side and not the poachers.
That's fine.....but not everyone he approaches is a poacher, or even breaking any law at all.
Some game wardens assume guilt instead of innocence.
I would like for everyone to try this experiment - next time you are pulled over or are hunting and you aren't legal for whatever reason (driving 57 in a 55 or forgot to smash your barbs on all your hooks) you say the following:
"Officer I was breaking the law. I am sorry about that. Please write me a ticket I deserve it."
I can't imagine how much lying, whining and crying these guys see. EVERYONE wants to be an exception.
If everyone they pulled over owned up to their mistake we would have happier enforcement officers.
Sorry I just get so tired of people who break the rules and then feel like they are treated unfair. Just own it and make the officers life easy.
Anyone ?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/03/christopher-johnson-convicted_n_1934585.html
http://www.odmp.org/officer/20901-deputy-game-warden-charles-b-peyton
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/11/12/pennsylvania.game.warden/
My daughter makes sure her prosecuting attorney badge that gets her in the courthouse is visible.
I asked for stats, not examples.
I appreciate the three examples that you posted, but the third was a traffic stop - not someone fishing or hunting.
I did a google on my home state of Virginia, and this is what I got ( note; just like your examples, not all GW deaths caused by fishermen and hunters ) ( last GW killed by a poacher was in 1930, or 1952 if you guess the results )
Virginia Game Wardens Killed In The Line Of Duty Joseph J. Powell - Virginia Game Warden was Killed by a game law violator. December 16, 1924
Frank H. Gilliam - Virginia Game Warden killed by a poacher. April 28, 1929
Harvey M. Carter - Virginia Game Warden killed by a game law violator. September 2, 1930
Frank M. Tompkins - Virginia Game Warden killed in an argument. November 1, 1934
Cecil B. Bays - Virginia Game Warden killed in an ambush. November, 27, 1952
Francis Edward "Red" Lindsey - Virginia Game Warden was killed while trying to render assistance to a taxi driver held hostage by a robber. April 10, 1960
Allen Cooke Flippo - Virginia Game Warden was killed in an airplane accident while flying a night patrol. December 19, 1972
Donald Wyatt Gentry - Virginia Game Warden was killed in an airplane accident while flying a night patrol. December 19, 1972 I am just wondering about how many contacts result in a death of a GW ? Especially since GWs have a lot of contact with people as compared to a Cop driving a unit around.
tonyo6302's Link
I think the stats would be pretty good, since most people a GW contacts are armed.
If the Warden did in fact not index his trigger finger while detaining your buddy on the ground that's aggravated assault with a firearm. I'd write letters of complaint to make sure the Warden gets the additional needed training. He can also press charges.
I'm pro LEO, but I'm not pro stupid.
I'd have to think there must have been some other circumstances involved like stated above, armed and dangerous, something like that. If not.... yeah.... that's crazy, out of control....
The way you were handled seems crazy and there is a possibility that another criminal was in the area that they had reports on. I would also follow up with his supervisor because if there was not a legitimate reason he may need additional training.
Have to wonder though with the reports about ISIS being in 15 states, I think there is more going on than we know and our LEOs also know some of what they need to be concerned about. Very cautious folks in LE will probably be the new norm.
It's people like me that know there are 2 sides to every story. Just because someone comes on here and says a guy drew down on his friend doesn't make his friend innocent.
Look at all the outfitter/hunter accusations that go on post hunt. A hunter comes on and bashes the outfitter and everyone says how awful. Then the outfitter comes on and clarifies several details and all of a sudden the outfitter was actually the one in the right.
I am not going to bash some officer because someone says his friend was drawn on - get both the fisherman and officer on here and then we may have the clear story.
I have friends throughout my life who were officers and the stuff they have to deal with every day is ridiculous. So if I am going to be slow to judge someone it's going to be the guy who has to enforce the law.
BTW Shuteye I met a warden recently who left OK because most of the time he was making drug busts.
I have seen them do this with turkey poachers during deer season too.
They changed their name to Conservation Police Officers, but have always been Class A peace officers in Virginia. We still call them Game Wardens, and they don't seem to have a problem with that.
They vector them out to 911 calls all the time if they are the closest responder, and pull DUI drivers over all the time here.
Most of the time for game violations, all other police depts will hold perps until the GW arrives.
On a different note, a warden told my friend of mine and me he hadn't written a ticket all day so he was going to write us up just to keep in practice. A federal judge, that fishes with us told my friend, "If you come before me you better bring two tooth brushes, you will be in long enough to wear one out." BTW he is a good friend and was just kidding, we all got a kick out of it.
Just own it and make the officers life easy. Own up to what? Your assuming that the guy was guilty of something. From what I read the fisherman did nothing wrong. So give the warden a free pass even if he wrong.
Usually, if I just happen to stumble upon one, it is the "old friend" thingy.
However, when they are responding to a complaint call, I get treated a tad different.
Just two years back, CPO Skinner was dispatched to the Bird Preserve I and four others were hunting on.
The Preserve Owner and I were driving back to my truck in an ATV to drop off some birds when we were intercepted by the CPO Skinner. As I exited the vehicle, I immediately showed him that my shotgun was unloaded. He said thanks. ( good thing I was practicing firearm safety and the shotgun was unloaded, as Virginia law prohibits a loaded shotgun in a vehicle at all times )
He then asked me a dozen questions, and searched my cooler and truck, and then took my license and ran me on the computer. He then drove off to intercept the other hunters in our party.
After all was said and done, he returned to me my license, thanked me for cooperation, and wished me a good hunt for the rest of the day.
Later, one of my hunting buddies called a friend of his who happened to be a LT in the Fish and Game Dept, and complained about our "shake down"
Come to find out, a neighbor to the preserve, had sworn over the phone, that we were poaching deer. CPO Skinner investigated us, and determined we all were within the law, and then went about his businsess. He was under no obligation to tell us why he showed up on a Licensed Bird Hunting preserve on a Sunday afternoon. He also was under no obligation to explain anything to us.
Although some in my party were perturbed, CPO Skinner treated us all with dignity and respect, and stayed within the boundary of his authority the whole time.
I guess my point is, sometimes ya never know why a Cop acts the way they do, but I would guess the majority of the time there is a reason for their "madness".
In Virginia, if the GW sees hunting or fishing happening, he is allowed to search the creel or game bag, both of which include your NEARBY vehicle and/or boat. If the GW observes hunting or fishing happening, he can enter private property without a warrant to inspect the creel/game bag.
A few years ago, I checked a Buck via phone in. A few hours later, a GW showed up at my door wanting to see the deer. I am guessing since Doe season was not in, he wanted to ensure a legal kill - or - he had a boring day and nothing better to do.
Anyway, we had a good conversation, including some stories about some of the shennanigans he sees. He told me fishermen are more likely to poach or break the law, than hunters, but mostly both groups are honest for the most part. He said the majority of his tickets were for fishing without a license.
Not an attorney but I did stay at a holiday inn once....the way I understand is they never need a warrant to search you if they have "probable cause".
If your vehicle smells like something illegal they can look for the illegal thing. Likewise if they have reason to believe you were hunting they have probable cause to search for game.
In Illinois, or anywhere, a game warden is bound by the exact same laws as any other police officer. They really have no special powers.
People think they can just show up and walk in. That is not the case at all! They show up wanting to look in your freezer, you have every right to tell them to leave until they have a search warrant.
If you are hunting, they are allowed to come unto your property to verify you are in compliance with hunting laws, but that's about it.
LINK's Link
Several years ago, my 80 year old uncle was skinning out an antlerless yearling elk he'd killed earlier that morning, opening day of elk season. Deer season had closed the evening before and his elk was a bit on the small side, if you know what I mean.
It was hanging in plain sight at the edge of our camp and anyone going down the road (about 60 yards away) could see it with no problem. Five of his sons and I were standing around watching, drinking coffee, BSing and offering all the free advice we could think of. No one had a gun but there were 4 or 5 leaning against trees around camp, the nearest to anyone being at least 30 feet or so.
About the time the hide reached low enough to obscure the head and neck of the elk, a F&G truck comes down the road. When he saw the elk, he literally slammed on his breaks, skidded to a stop and drove off the road toward us at a rather brisk clip.
The truck came to another dusty, skidding stop about 40 feet from our group and out jump two COs. The driver crouched behind his open door with his hand on his sidearm while the passenger dashed behind a very large Ponderosa pine and drew his sidearm.
"Who shot the deer?" barked the driver.
"Ain't no deer!" said my grumpy uncle. He was always a bit on the gruff side.
"Sure looks like a nice big buck", says the CO.
Meanwhile, I glance over my shoulder to see what's become of the other CO. He's now creeping from one of our vehicles to another with his sidearm pointed in the direction of the group.
"What's your partner up to", I ask the driver/CO. "Why all the cops and robbers this morning?"
"We do that when we find people killing deer out of season", he says.
At this point my uncle raises up the hide to show the CO that he is skinning a perfectly legal elk and not a deer.
To say the driver/CO was crestfallen would be the understatement of the decade. He looked devastated ... not because he'd made a wrong assumption, but because he wasn't going to get to write a ticket. He as much as said so.
The driver/CO (obviously the one in charge)demanded all our licenses, tags, drivers licenses, etc., etc. All the while, the one with his gun on us continued to move from cover to cover as though he was angling for a clear shot. Several of us asked him more than once to lower his weapon but he just glared.
Finally, the driver/CO called him off and they got back in their truck and left in a cloud of dust, spraying a lot of it on us and the half-skinned elk.
Like I said ... real A-holes.
Thank God there are only the few.
One incident several years ago convinced me that the "new breed" would rather find something to cite or arrest than to find that you are in compliance with the law. My abalone diving partner and I found a particularly nice honey hole that was full of big abs. The regulations state that the minimum size is 7" across the largest dimension of the shell. Divers and pickers must carry a gauge to accurately measure the abalone, and any undersize must be IMMEDIATELY return to the rock. Well, this place was full of 9-10, and some 11" abalones. So, we had the idea to make up some 9" gauges. Went diving, pretty quickly got our limit of 9 and 10"ers. Get back up the truck, and there's a warden parked...not unusual, they keep a pretty close eye on the abalone. He asked to see our float bags...takes a look, says "hey, those are a couple of real nice limits....where is your 7" gauge?". We explain and show our 9" gauges, and he proceeds to lecture us that we MUST have a 7" gauge, otherwise we can't determine if they are undersized. (WTF?) Says he has no choice but to confiscate the abalone and cite us for not having a proper abalone gauge. He gets on the horn, talking to his supervisor, and starts writing the citations. About 5 minutes later, his super rolls up...older guy...and comes over to see what the situation is. He looks at the first warden and says, "you've got to be kidding". He apologizes profusely and tells us we can go (with our abs and no citation) and drives off. We get out of our dive gear and are loading up, and the first warden, who remained behind after his super left, starts his truck and begins to pull out. He stops and rolls down his window and says "Next time I'm not even calling a supervisor, I'm just going to haul you in." Guy was a real prick, and I suspect that he may have been an anti who gets off on harassing hunters and fishermen.
Wrong. Nothing is good if your belongings are searched without a warrant. Your rights to privacy have been trampled. It happens every day, and game wardens are notorious for it. And, in many cases, they are not questioned.
Everytime I hear it the hairs on my neck stand up...
my response will be "you do not have my permission to search my vehicle, home etc.". Will not try and prevent but will let my lawyer deal with it. Totally unacceptable.
I told him I was birdwatching. He asked what I wanted to see and proceeded to tell me where I might have the best chance.
At present, I do not personally know a game warden, but my experience today is typical of my experience through the years.
A State Game Warden worked the Base, and I thought he was the biggest jackwagon I had ever met . . . . .
. . . . . until some yahoos in the National Forest started shooting full auto at my truck, which was on the base . . . .
. . . Bill and I thought we were gonna be in for it, until that "jackwagon" barreled through the chapparel and manzanita, over drainages, and into the midst of them, shotgun in one hand, pistol in the other, and put all the yahoos in the dirt and arrested their sorry arses . . . .
We drove over and asked if he needed any help. He said, "No, I got this." And he DID have that!
;^)
. . . . I started having a lot more respect for that particular Game Warden that day, even though he would never win the Mr. Congeniality Constest amongst we hunters.
My most recent experience was last summer.
I woke to two WL&P vehicles parked at the end of my 100 yard long driveway. Another across the road on the neighbors road between his alfalfa and corn field. Another on the county road to the north at the other end of the neighbors cornfield. Another to the south of the adjacent alfalfa field that also serves as the neighbors driveway. In addition, there were 3 sets of houndsman in their trucks racing back and forth between the alfalfa and cornfield and hounds could be heard running something in circles in the cornfield.
I walked to the end of the drive to speak to one of the officers and a shooter positioned there. I asked if they were running a bear or lion as both are commonly seen by my family and neighbors around here.
They said it was the 4th bear they had run that morning in the same area on private land. They stated bear problems here around our place are common and getting worse, so they were dispatching them as opposed to trapping and relocating.
I asked what they were doing with the bear meat, to which they responded they were donating. I asked them to look no further if they wanted a source to donate to that would appreciate the meat for family, neighbors and friends. Told me they would probably come talk to me in a few hours.
Almost exactly two hours later, a WL&P truck pulled up and the officer I spoke to stepped out and asked if I still wanted one of the bears, to which I replied in the affirmative. He said to follow him in my truck. I followed him to a farmhouse two neighbors down, where I was instructed to back my truck up under the already dressed bear hanging in the farmers yard. I was issued a donation tag for processing the bear if I elected, requested to supply my contact information if they had more to donate and sent merrily on my way after expressing much gratitude on behalf of myself and other recipients of the bear meat.
I am told they took 15 bears from the area last year and have been blessed to have received and given away bear meat to some more needy than myself to help them through this last winter.
The local bear sightings have dropped substantially since then but still pretty common. One appearing on my front porch just a couple weeks later. Drove her off with the help of my dogs.
Just a couple months ago, another neighbor lost two ewes to a lion. Local WL&P officers have been nothing but helpful to all the neighbors out here and some needy and grateful recipients have benefited.
Pretty cool if you ask me.
Iktomi's Link
The answer to that problem WAS spring bear seasons and bait.
It's not coming back in Colorado because hunter groups are afraid to push it in fear of a larger backlash from the anti hunting community and general population. I gave up lobbying them years ago. They will not attempt such an effort.
In the meantime, it's a nice problem to have for our neighborhood, imo. Bears don't bother us much. There just doing what bears do when left with poor range forage.
With a small child in the home, I'm much more apprehensive of cats. So far, no serious problems. The dogs pretty much see to that.
