- the right to choose my healthcare. -the right to abstain from purchasing a product. -the right to free speech ( 503c denials for right wingers) -the right for my state to define marriage. -the right to be secure in my person and property. (PA and NDAA)
These are just the ones from the headlines in the last 2 years. Does not include failed attempts like gun control within the same time period. And I do not forgive legacy tyranny like building debt, paying unconstitutional taxes and forced underwriting of infanticide.
Sorry, I know I'm not Spike. Just can't believe the question.
I can't believe the question either.
My right to free speech in unaffected because I still say what I want and am not a participant in any 503c.
My state got screwed with this marriage law crap, but my own freedom was unaffected. I am still married and it still means the same to me. Crap law I opposed, but no tangible effect to me.
I consider myself secure in person and property regardless of the headlines. I don;t break the law in a way that is being tracked and punished.
Aside from the headlines and media hype, are you really affected?
The effort is wrong and unconstitutional, and I know the administration would go further and enslave us if they coould... but I think the system we have, damaged as it is, has prevented the worst of it.
The nuke deal with Iran, and illegal immigration, and ISIS attacks here at home has me far more concerned than what you listed above.
??? Is this a trick question?
Seriously HA, you don't know??
I have more freedom to choose an airline. I have more freedom to choose news sources. I have more freedom to choose entertainment sources. I have more freedom to choose ways to communicate with others.
I have the freedom to know that my son will not be drafted.
I have more freedom to carry firearms in more places in America than any time since the 19th century.
I have more freedom in banking, investing, saving, and planning for retirement.
I have the freedom to own gold.
I have more freedom to keep what I earn due to lower federal income tax rates.
I have lost the freedom to not have health insurance, but I have many more treatment options for various health conditions than ever before in history.
I have more choices for food, clothing, housing, etc.
There is much noise about the government taking our freedoms, but most of it is just that - noise.
The government is becoming increasingly burdensome, poking its nose into everything, etc. The actual taking of freedoms? Not so much.
"I have the freedom to know that my son will not be drafted." - That can change at a drop of a hat and is such an ambiguous citation as to be null.
"I have more freedom to carry firearms in more places in America than any time since the 19th century." - Try escorting your wife to an airport gate with your favorite carry piece and get back to me. Try being discovered carrying in a bank, post office or federal building and get back to me. BTW, every gun purchased from a licensed dealer leaves a permanent record with stated dealer until such time as it goes out of business whereupon such records get submitted to the ATF - a defacto registry.
"I have more freedom in banking, investing, saving, and planning for retirement." -Actually, the taxes and fees you pay greatly reduce your ability to improve your station. Further, by irresponsible fiscal policy and inflation, your purchasing power is greatly oppressed.
"I have the freedom to own gold." -Super. You just made another federal list. A violation of your 4th amendment rights.
"I have more freedom to keep what I earn due to lower federal income tax rates." - You're happy about ostensibly paying less of an unconstitutional tax? BTW, the Bush tax cuts are paid for with borrowed money. So, your particular "right" will be paid exponentially by your son. But, hey, at least he is guaranteed to not be drafted.
"I have lost the freedom to not have health insurance, but I have many more treatment options for various health conditions than ever before in history." - I can't even negotiate with a doctor directly for services because they are legally bound to charge a minimum of Medicare/Medicaid rates.
I honestly don't get your perspective, HA. It seems you are leveraging (most often) the illusion of expanded capability with "acceptable submission" of one's rights. You are too smart to concede to that.
gflight's Link
I can understand that many people want to be ruled as subjects not citizens but I don't reside in that camp and it bothers me that some of you have no problem with being sheep....
Bowsniper your comment below reminded me of a quote about Nazi Germany....
"My right to free speech in unaffected because I still say what I want and am not a participant in any 503c."
Martin Niemöller
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
-First, the 2 points are not the same.Obamacare is a double whammy for statists. The control of HC and the principle of forced participation are two separate issues. Secondly, the steep increase of cost is another example of government stealing your property.
"My right to free speech in unaffected because I still say what I want and am not a participant in any 503c."
-Good for you. I'm glad you are politically inactive. I guess.
"My state got screwed with this marriage law crap, but my own freedom was unaffected. I am still married and it still means the same to me. Crap law I opposed, but no tangible effect to me."
-The federal government gets to decide what constitutes marriage, a right heretofore granted to the states. A real loser for the Constitution. The Constitution cannot keep taking hits while we shrug our shoulders.
"I consider myself secure in person and property regardless of the headlines. I don;t break the law in a way that is being tracked and punished."
-You must like getting felt up in the airport. I do not.
We all share the shame of passivity. But to see men say essentially, "So what?" is saddening.
Caution and concern expressed in wild excess leads to paranoia and hysteria. You quote Martin Noilmeller, I could quote the Boy who cried wolf, or chicken little.
The country is going to shit with Obama in charge, but the sky isn't actualy falling and we have much greater dangers to worry about than anything listed here...
HA/KS's Link
In most of the things I listed above, the government is still too involved. My point is that they are LESS involved than they were 40 years ago.
Owl ""I have the freedom to own gold." -Super. You just made another federal list. A violation of your 4th amendment rights." A total fabrication. The government does not keep track of who owns gold. Even if they did, purchase anonymously with cash. I don't invest in gold because it is a fool's bet.
The government is always trying to become more intrusive, but as BowSniper pointed out, your hysteria is counterproductive.
"Try escorting your wife to an airport gate with your favorite carry piece and get back to me. " For the first time in my life, I can open carry almost everywhere in the state and the law specifically forbids the state to interfere with that right.
obamacare is the greatest intrusion into our lives since the Income Tax (both declared legal by the supreme court, but neither good for America or Americans).
Sorry guys, I see bluster, hand-wringing, and worry, but I don't see your big list of loss of freedoms. I'm still waiting. The "it's too obvious to answer" response generally means that you don't have an answer.
-Gold purchases of greater than $10,000.00 must be reported to the IRS. Specifically cash purchases. That's my understanding. If I am wrong, so be it. But I don't lie.
And since we are talking about reporting requirements, ask Denny Hastert about reporting thresholds relative to using his own money. The guy was actually under the threshold and he still got nailed.
Spike is 100% correct. The list is too vast to do justice. My company once got fined for not having a ladder at the back of excavated pit. We had 1 at the front where the depth exceeded 4 feet. From the front, the existing grade sloped toward the back. The back of the pit where he claimed we should have had another ladder was AT FLAT GRADE WITH THE SURFACE LEVEL. This ladder was for emergency egress. Nevermind we could have laid down and rolled out of the back of the pit. Nevermind the cited violation actually created a trip hazard - also an OSHA violation...
We've also been fined for not having a "Potable Water" label on a WATER COOLER.
DON'T TELL ME ABOUT HOW WONDERFULLY FREE I AM!
I trust any number of people could read my posts and derive exactly what I stated, what I meant and what I have lost.
I am a slow learner, so I'm looking for a list of those lost rights I hear so much about.
Again, what rights have YOU lost?
What about the right to life? I guess we have not lost that because our mommas decided to keep us. By your standard, you must be fine with abortion.
If you think the OSHA examples are about ladders and coolers, you have remedial work to do. My property, my capital, was seized by government decree. That constitutes a violation of my rights.
Even abortion has become more restricted in some places. Congress for the first time since Roe v Wade has passed some restrictions on abortion. Various states are working to restrict abortion. I think it should all be illegal in every case, but that view is held by a very small portion of the American population. If my wife or daughter's life was in danger but would be saved by the abortion of a viable baby (an extremely rare scenario) I would kiss them good bye and promise to do everything I could to take care of the baby.
list from your first post:
obamacare - I agree 100%
"503c denials" The organizations and their members were not denied free speech - just the opportunity to claim it as a deduction
"-the right for my state to define marriage." You still have the right to marry or not whomever you want (with your wife's permission of course). Yes, this is nasty and will lead to the loss of rights.
"-the right to be secure in my person and property. (PA and NDAA)" Your person or property has been taken?
Still a mighty short list for all of the noise I have been hearing about lost rights.
Just to reemphasize I DO NOT LIKE MUCH OF WHAT OUR GOVERNMENT IS DOING AND BELIEVE A LOT OF IT IS CONTRARY TO THE INTENT OF THE CONSTITUTION. However, I disagree that our rights have been taken to such an extent that it is time to give up. If the population believes that they no longer have rights, then they do not. That is what I want to avoid, but leftists are using that very mantra to keep the opposition from taking up the battle.
In my lifetime, I have gained more access to my rights than I have lost.
I've demonstrated the rights I've lost. I cannot make you care and will cease to do so.
And nowhere, nowhere did anyone state it was time to "give up." Is that what exercising one's right to actively dissent means to you? I guess the FF were real losers to you because they took active dissent to a martial degree.
HA, I've already given you more time than I would a counterpart who calls me a liar. I am glad your rights are intact and unencumbered. For your contentment, I would recommend to steer clear of the writings of the founders, David Barton, Ludwig vonMises, Milton Friedman, Larkin Rose, Walter E. Williams, Thomas Sowell, Andrew Napolitano and many others. I would list more but, somehow, I don't think you'll even grasp those mentioned thus far.
The intent is to twart money laundering by the terrorists and drug dealers
The longer you squirm without producing a list, the more I believe that the loss of rights you are worried about is more in imagination or potential than in practice.
Nva would probably tell you that the financial world is much less regulated (many more options) than when he started his business.
This is not a Constitutional function of the federal government, and, as such, the right falls to my state or myself, specifically. So, that is a right I inherited but, by federal fiat, I lost.
Do I need to demonstrate that the resulting loss of money is an encumbrance to my capital, literally, my means of production? That's real for people. It means food on the table, gas in the car, college tution and even the family vacation is, illicitly, harder to achieve. When the federal government steals my money, I don't consider it an "intrusion," I consider it a crime. And when I am victim to a crime, at least one right has been violated.
Most my peers do understand the very real and immediate implications of government overreach almost implicitly. Though, I understand, some folks may be mere products of public education and, therefore, bereft of the exposure to the historical and philosophical perspective I take for granted.
I don't see anyone picking a fight with anyone here. Owl asked for a fair evaluation of some of his statements. That is what I gave him. He asked for others opinions, that is what I did. No picking a fight or requesting a beat down. Its one thing to be in love with words, its another thing to actually evaluate what those words and sometimes ideas really are and what they mean. Its as simple as effective communication.
Better stated that time Owl.
For instance, Ludwig von Mises blew my mind. I thought I understood capitalism my whole life. Turns out, I didn't even know what the word meant.
"Owl, I read everything you wrote. You covered some perceptions, but [other than losing the right (not individually, but as an employer) to have unlabeled drinking water and no ladder on the level ground at the back of an excavation] you have not documented a real loss of a right that you had 40 years ago."
- HA, those are your quotes. I will do you the (unilateral) courtesy of not accusing you of lying but I have no choice but to point out your inconsistencies within this thread.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/02/constitution.html
40 years is more than a few years....
I can't handle serpents (religion)
Right to life (abortion) right of liberty (Indefinite detention)
Free speech (IRS targeting)
Gun rights (some states have lost rights while others gained)
Search an seizure (patriot act)
Mass spying (NSA)
