joshuaf's Link
If Trump supporters and admirers can read these 2 articles, and the links contained within, and come away with any impression other than that Donald Trump is, of all the candidates running on the GOP side, the least Conservative of the bunch and least trustworthy of the bunch, then I seriously worry for the future of this country. All his hot air about American jobs first and deporting illegal immigrants is just that, a bunch of hot air. He can talk the talk, but he definitely don't walk the walk. That is the epitome of a career politician, which all his apologists say he is the furthest thing from being. If any Conservatives here can still defend Donald after reading these articles, I sincerely hope I don't ever see them moaning and complaining in the future about how the GOP "Establishment" candidate isn't really a Conservative. If they do, they will be exposing themselves as a 1st class hypocrite.
Too long to copy and paste, you'll have to follow the link.
Part 1
From Immigration To Guns To Abortion, Donald Trump Must Reckon With His Progressive History
I know you're being sarcastic, but if that truly is the excuse/defense for all Trump's many changes, then no politician's past should ever be relevant again. And we know that won't be the case. So, it's disingenuous for his supporters and admirers to use that excuse now because they like the guy, but take Romney and McCain and Dole and Hillary and Biden to task for their past.
I call BS.
By giving this blowhard Bowsite 'air time' instead of advocating for Cruz/Walker/Paul/Carson, et. al., that's exactly what you're doing.
Congratulations! You're following the msm's model!
Ted Cruz, anyone else a distant 2nd.
Why?
The Rock
He's a lot of talk, and maybe that's all he is. But he's damn sure making the rest of the party talk about things they'd NEVER talk about, and that's a good thing.
Because he's easily the most consistent Conservative in the race, that's why.
Spike, you know that's not true. I know you don't believe that someone supporting Ted Cruz is trying to protect the GOP Establishment, since Cruz is the archenemy of the Establishment.
Bu the fact is that no one outside of us are talking about Cruz and what he stands for, and especially the media. They are talking about TRUMP. who does in fact share a lot of Cruz's views.
If Cruz is to have any chance we NEED to have Trump talking about the issues that he is. If we didn't they wouldn't be talked about at all because the GOP leadership wants it to all go away.
Just how does Trump's grabbing the microphone and jumping in front of every TV camera help Cruz get air time?
Just how does Cruz benefit from Trump's dominating the media and thereby severely limiting the air time guys like Cruz/Carson/Walker would otherwise get?
Totally wrong. Cruz is drawing very large crowds everywhere he goes on his campaign stops. He's raised more money from individual small donors than anyone else in the race! I've donated to the guy twice and I've never donated to a politician in my life before that. Believe me, there is a ton of grassroots support for Cruz, you just don't hear much about it because Trump is sucking up all the oxygen in the room.
"They are talking about TRUMP. who does in fact share a lot of Cruz's views."
Can you define what you mean by "a lot", and can you show me any evidence that Trump has actually ever taken any action on those views, or has he just offered words? Please be specific.
.@tedcruz not a bad little turnout at the #SC Capitol #profamilyrally #CruzCrew #CruzToVictory #Cruz2016 pic.twitter.com/WzIYwBAkrT
— bruce redden (@brucereddenjr) August 29, 2015Cruz, Paul, and Walker are the few exceptions and I'm NOT talking about them.
And THE MEDIA talks about Trump all the time. And I'm NOT wrong on that. I can't remember the last time I heard Cruz mentioned on the MSM other than in context with the rest of the GOP candidates.
Whether you like it or not Trump is the lightening rod in this race. Deal with it.
No business man in his right mind would do business by strictly following his political beliefs. To do so would be shooting himself in the foot and alienating potential customers that don't agree with his political views. Look what happened to baker that refused to bake a cake for a gay couple...he's out of business. When I was in business I had to quell my political opinion because it's amazing how many people will boycott you simply for the way you think.
Unlike most politicians he might actually work with people from BOTH sides of the "Great Divide"!
Was that supposed to be a defense of Trump, Romney, or both?
So far no one has had to guts to say yes. To me that is a really sad thing that you would rather let the declared left continue than to vote for Trump;.
God bless, Steve
That would be unless they had actual principles. There are MANY principled businessmen. Your loss that you don't know any of them.
It must be sad to live in such a cynical world.
Trump is the Left, on multiple issues.
"It must be sad to live in such a cynical world."
Damn HA...if I didn't know any better I'd think that somewhere along the line I must have seriously rubbed you the wrong way!
My point is that any business man (besides politicians and clergy) who proclaims his devout political and or religious views to his customer base, is going to lose business from those that simply disagree with his viewpoint.
It has nothing to do with cynicism and everything to do with REALITY. Although I understand that reality escapes many here, I always thought you had a better grip than most. Perhaps I was mistaken???
On a national level, have you never heard of Hobby Lobby?
Do you think that Chic-fil-A could sell chicken on Sunday?
I know farmers who refuse to participate in federal farm programs, do not work on Sunday beyond what it takes to keep livestock fed and watered, etc.
There ARE many principled businessmen for whom some things are worth more than the bottom line. I wish you knew them.
I never said I didn't know any. My point is that none of them are running for president; and if they are, they won't be elected. Again, it's simply reality.
We have this conversation every 4 years and some people actually discuss the topic as though they truly believe that were going to vote in someone that actually does what he promised to do. Quite honestly Carson is the best "morally correct candidate. But for that reason alone he won't be elected. He's too honest and focused on the good of the people. We all know there us NO room for that in politics!!
There must be a 4 year window to the memory banks of some here. ;-)
RK....How am I doin because I feel wunnnnnerful. My man! Aside form the few people who have PMed me I think I found another closet "Rockette". ;-)
The Rock
The Rock
It appears, however, that there are those who are just so eager to stick it to the EGOPman that they got caught up in heralding a lefty blowhard who agrees with them on perhaps, one or two points.
As I spend significantly more time interviewing a potential client than they spend interviewing me, it would be very unlikely I wouldn't discover they were a liberal before any business was conducted.
Our values and belief systems would just be too different to make for a good advisor/client relationship.
If George Soros walked into my office tomorrow and told me he wanted me to handle $100,000,000 of his investment funds, I would not take it, even though I'd receive a six-figure annual revenue stream from it.
Cowboy Ethics, Rule #9:
"Some things are not for sale."
You nailed it.
Quite a few folks on the forum who have been "heralding" Trump despite his total lack of history as a Conservative. Yeah, plenty have said they're not planning to vote for him but they've been sure rooting him on just the same.
"And who would that be, gadan?"
Oh, pleeeze, Chas!
You and a great many others have been singing the praises of Trump and defending his BS at every opportunity for weeks, all to the detriment of real conservatives like Cruz, Walker, Carson, etc.
Ya'll claim you won't vote for him in the primaries. yet at the same time he's the ONLY candidate you champion.
Yes, sometimes a few of you claim Cruz, Walker, Carson are your real choices, but given that's all any of you ever say about them while incessantly gushing over an egomaniacal blowhard, your credibility is suspect.
Is the conservative movement fine with Trump as the nominee? Why it needs to decide soon. My latest for @WashTimes
http://t.co/kudf4RkeVt
— Steve Deace (@SteveDeaceShow) August 31, 2015I call BS!
Yes, on rare occasion said you'd not vote for him in the primary. Yet for the past many weeks you've been unable to contain your enthusiasm for him, TRUMPeting for him at every opportunity!
The Donald is the EGOP's wet dream because he draws all the attention away from the real conservatives in the race.
Yet YOU either cannot see this phony for who he is, or you will not see it.
Shame. On. You!
You know, I had a nice dinner, saw this and thought "what a great idea!" so I did.
I looked over the past 6 weeks for threads clearly started about Trump and found 15.
Authors & number of threads started:
joshuaf (4) Buckiller (2) Spike Bull (2) NvaGvUp (2) Jim in Ohio (1) BowSniper (1) Anonymouse (1) HA/KS (1) Woods Walker (1)
Then I looked at Ted Cruz who had 7 threads started:
joshuaf (2) Spike Bull (2) NvaGvUp (1) Slade (1) HA/KS (1)
And finally, Scott Walker who had 5 threads started:
NvaGvUp (3) Spike Bull (1) Huntcell (1)
So Kyle (NvaGvUp) whom it seems some want to proclaim the "King of the eGOPologists has authored twice as many threads for Ted Cruz and Scott Walker as he has about Donald Trump.
In this he actually fares better than you Spike as your scorecard is 2 for Trump, 2 for Cruz, 1 for Walker.
Henry (HA/KS) I think is at least a junior member (in some eyes) of the eGOPologists but he has a 50/50 split so he didn't help make their case.
The most interesting was the case of joshuaf with (4) Trump threads and (2) Cruz threads. I'm having a hard time not falling out of my chair laughing at the potential thought that anyone with a single functioning brain cell would even think to label him an eGOPologist.
Of course he has simply shone a flashlight on Mr. Trump's warts; a literary "chill pill" for the pixels of figurative drool over the Donald.
Oh yeah-nearly forgot the good Doctor, Ben Carson with a grand total of 1 thread.
HA/KS (1)-so apologies Henry, you're not 50/50 but 2/3's of your threads have been for the guys who aren't eGOP candidates.
Maybe you and Kyle should re-read those ultra top secret memos you got from the eGOP........
Thank God I get to take to the woods 2 weeks from manana......
Good stuff.
What you did not note, although I'm sure you knew it about the threads I started on Trump, were that they were anti-Trump, while my threads on Cruz and Walker were PRO Cruz and Walker.
At the same time, the Trump threads started by Spike were all about how awesome Trump is.
BUT, big BUT, given the choice between a Clinton, a Bush, a Sanders or some green party hippie....will gladly vote twice for a Trump
the first few primaries should be interesting, the next dozen months are nail biters, down side is everybody thought 2012 was a slam dunk, this next cycle is no different, maybe worse
We've got several great candidates, none perfect, if for some reason none of them are in the election I will become an a-political observer for life, there's no point at that point
Speaking for myself, you know that is not the truth.
And I think it is more than a little hypocritical for you to be calling out anyone on here who has supported someone that is less than a Constitutional Conservative in the past, when you are rooting Trump on like crazy. So what if you said you won't vote for him, you obviously admire him despite his Progressivism, and it is that kind of attitude and that kind of cheerleading that is keeping a truly consistently Conservative candidate like Cruz from getting more airtime and more support.
Trump is a Liberal Democrat masquerading as a Republican. By cheering him on, even if you don't plan to vote for him, you are giving him aid and comfort and you are damaging the prospects for someone like Ted Cruz to catch fire. Trump is a fake, he's a fraud. So what if he's calling out the Establishment? Maybe you heard Ted Cruz has done the same thing once or twice, and for a lot longer than Trump?
I'm sorry that my point sailed right over your head; the issue is that some posters have been labled as in the tank for the eGOP and the numbers and natures of the posts I cited simply don't support that.
By your own admission you would not vote for Trump; I find it remarkably inconsistent with that point that you would find fault in others for pointing out in all likelihood the very same reasons you cannot bring yourself to vote for him.
Conversely, members of the accused class of "eGOPologists" have been steadfastly supporting Ted Cruz and Scott Walker; again points that seem more consistent with what you advocate than what you rail against.
As to what joshuaf said I found it to be spot-on and would offer that perhaps you should consider why you found his references to you to be "repugnant".
Have you remarked on many threads your fondness for Trump taking it to the eGOP? Do you not see the logical connection joshuaf made that by extension the adulation clique is also aiding and abetting the minimalization of the true conservatives in the field?
And if the factor that compelled you to stand in line for Team Trump pom-poms was his taking on the eGOP, as joshuaf again correctly pointed out you've had Ted Cruz (who has well-established conservative bonafides) doing it without fanfare and taking a helluva lot more flak as well for a long time.
Forest.......trees.......
Now, many Trumpites here will completely and totally ignore the fact these are documented things Trump has said, then go after ME and call me an EGOPologist and a JEB! advocate for simply posting the video. That will show us all who lives in La La Land, for sure!
"I believe that having Trump in the race has lowered the chances of electing a conservative republican president from well over 50% to less than 25%."
What does that tell us? That conservatism as we know it is dead and we better figure out quick the new "right" or we will follow.
The Rock
Thanks for proving my point, intentionally or not.
Again, you've proved my point.
That ad was spot on and used VIDEO of Trump. Yet because it was the Bush campaign that showed what Trump said, you prefer to ignore the message and instead, shoot the messenger!
No wonder we're losing!
What do you mean WE are losing? Who is losing and who are we? Your making your own cohorts here blush.
The Rock
YOU, otoh, are the guys who praise Trump at every opportunity while conveniently ignoring his entire history.
If you want to see Hillary sitting in the White House, keep cheerleading for Trump, who does not have a conservative bone nor thought in his body and who never has had.
Well now that you are speaking for "we" attach some names for whom you speak.
Praise? What history am I ignoring about Trump that has you so pent up with anger about this guy that you KNOW to be the truth?
Conservatives in the true meaning of the word are DEAD. As in GONE. Get it. If you can't see that in Washington with their seats full of "conservatives" I fear your judgment is beyond repair. If so, as it appears, you continue to expect people to believe and hear your message. They have heard your message. No one believes it anymore. The fact that you just can't seem to adapt to this new political atmosphere is a problem you are going to have to figure out on your own or with "we" whoever they may be.
You can't get a chubby and you take it out on everyone else? Your a real trooper.
GVA,..give it up. You are out of your league. These back and forth's can become quite embarrassing for a man of your limited skills. Believe me. You are not day trading penny stocks advice with a $ 500,000.00 portfolio here. Do you understand? I am giving you a way out. Take it....and now I guess bk took his courage pill is going to have to chime in. If not I apologize for pre-supposing.
The Rock
Nonesense. Sixby without the religion ?
I doubt NVA or BK need a courage pill to engage you on any topic
Glad you took my advice. Now we can play nice.
The Rock
Your right. Anything else?
The Rock
But I understand. Your arguments are intellectually lame, so you pull out the crap, and hope someone will take the bait. I don't give a damn how many calendar years you've celebrated birthdays in, because I know the difference between fifty years of experience and one year repeated fifty times.
Spike, Ike, WW, slade, and sixby, along with several others here are all guys I've long respected and admired.
Yet when it comes to Trump, if you dare critcize him, that can only mean you are a card carrying member of the EGOP.
Given I've never had a good thing to say about Jeb Bush or Chris Christie, the two 'EGOP' candidates, that's pretty remarkable.
Yet what's more remarkable is I'm probably the ONLY guy here who donated to Ted Cruz in the TS\X Senatorial GOP primary when he ran against heavily favored, GOP establishment candidate David Dewhurst.
When Cruz got enough votes to force a runoff primary, I donated to him again.
He won, then I donated t him AGAIN in the general, which he also won.
Now, since he became a candidate for the GOP POTUS nomination, I've donated THREE TIMES again!
Can you say the same thing, Spike, WW, Ike, slade, sixby and the rest?
No. I didn't think so!
So the BS is not on ME! It's on YOU!
GVA..that is the candidate you prefer and many others here also. Some prefer Trump or someone else. You make it sounds as if they don't see it your way they are somehow wrong. That is all it is from what I can see.
bk,
You may be well like here and truthfully I like you myself, but you are for all intents and purposes outside of that "small potatoes". There is nothing wrong with that or to be embarrassed about. Everyone does not possess the same horsepower. You are among the majority take solace in that.
The Rock
After crapping on me for supposedly supporting the "EGOP," but then when confronted with the facts, you don't want to answer the challenge, do you?
1. Trump is a big mouth.
2. He's changed his thinking over the years. (And for the BETTER I might add). And while I prefer someone who's consistant and tested (like Cruz/Walker), as long as someone evolving towards the GOOD side that's not all bad either. I voted for Reagan twice and he changed his tune also.
3. I don't trust him and only time will tell if he's as good as his words. But that STILL places him above the GOP leadership and many of the current candidates who talk the talk but when they actually get to act on it they do NOTHING at best, and actually AID the Sh*t Stain. I KNOW they aren't as good as their words...not even close.
4. His presence in this race has got the people who would NEVER talk about things like illegal immigration talking about it. (And by "the people" I DON'T mean people like us or the few in the GOP race who have been fighting this fight with us). And getting others talking about it is a good thing.
5. Should he in fact become the next President he will have an opportunity to PROVE that he means what he says and that having a sharp businessman at the helm will help America. He may very well fail also. But at the VERY least we won't have a President who will actually say Marxist/Socialist CRAP like..."At some point you've made enough money". Any so-called American President who says anti-American crap like that should be hung on the Capital steps or at the least deported to a Marxist/Socialist shit-hole where they can live their fantasy.
"His presence in this race has got the people who would NEVER talk about things like illegal immigration talking about it." Change illegal immigration to several other topics and the same is true of obama.
Trump - the white half of obama
Reagan changed his views YEARS before he ever ran for President, and I'm pretty sure it was years before he ever ran for CA Governor also. He was speaking about his change of views in speeches for a LONG time before it would benefit him politically to do so. Not so with Trump, not at all.
That is the stuff for Keystone Cops highlight reels.
How can anyone believe what you are saying when all you say is negative?
Keep digging but you are wrong. This is sad to watch from those so broken down from a once proud Party. Now nothing but a joke. Except of course in your mind.
The Rock
The Rock
Now as far as I am concerned after all the fire and brimstone that is the classy way to end a disagreement. I am serious.
Now on to the next.....
The Rock
So I take it that means you've not actually committed ANY dollars in support of Cruz?
It's so easy to crap on those who are in the arena when you, yourself are not.
I don't like doing this and should wait for you to weigh in out of respect....on second thought I better wait. Regrets are regrettable.
The Rock
slade's Link
At one time I vote religiously. I was an R and that was that. Then I began to notice that the R voice was being drowned out or better said gone unheard.
Arlen Spectre no longer able to win the Republican nomination after spending a lifetime in that seat ran under the Democratic flag.
I could easily see what mattered to Specter and it was not the people. It was Specter and that seat all the time. Spectre was followed by a parade of losers who took their shot.
Adios voting machine as the losers across this nation invaded the party and continue till this day looking only for a soft landing.
The Rock
