Just last week I was reading an article that discussed PTSD as being overdiagnosed by a LOT.
I also think it should be different somehow for those drafted, and those who volunteered. Not that those who volunteered should get any less care, but those who were drafted had no choice. They may have known that they weren't cut out to witness, or be a part of some of the things they had to do, but it didn't matter.
Suicide rates among vets is enough to convince me that there most certainly is a real problem. I have no idea if we are just mentally weak in this day and age, if modern warfare is different, or what. But clearly there are too many vets with extreme mental anguish - enough so to find living a worse option than death.
That said, I know a few people who claimed to be affected by PTSD and I'm pretty sure they are gaming the system.
http://www.brianbillfoundation.org/about-us/
Rhody, I got to disagree with you.
My Step Son was with 2nd Recon, and fought the battle of Fallujah.
Years later, after he got out, we were just sighting in rifles one day, when he started talking about his demons.
I just sat on my tailgate for hours, crying like a little child, while he recounted the horror he experienced in Iraq.
Shortly thereafter, my Daughter In Law, threw his arse in the car, and drove him to the VA Hospital in Richmond.
He was thus diagnosed with PTSD, years after he was honorable discharged.
He, in no way is stuck in his past. However, there are triggers for those who suffer "shell shock".
Your statement, in my Sons case, is totally false, and very offensive to me.
My Step Daughter, was an Air Assault, and Trauma Surgery Qualified Army Nurse, and helped set up the first US Army Hospital in Baghdad. She, too, has her demons, especially when she followed her Christian upbringing in trying to save terrorists lives in the ER while the black ops guys were telling her to let them die. Her motto, ya bring 'em to the ER, they get the same chance as everyone else.
Anyway, she, too, is not stuck in the past, Your statement in my Daughters case is very offensive to me.
My Son-In-Law, still on USMC Active Duty, while training Afgans, was blown off the side of a mountain, and suffered Tramautic Brain Injury.
He told me he actually had to kill people he had trained, because what side the Afgan would fight on, could change from day to day.
After his return home, and while at Lowes with my Daughter ( Step Daughter ), he started clearing isles in the garden section. When my Daughter saw his actions in "clearing the isles" of bad guys, she immediately loaded his arse up in the car, and drove him to the VA Hospital in Richmond, where he was successfully treated.
My Son In Law does not live in the past, and has since earned his PhD at William and Mary.
Your statement, in my Son-In-Laws case, is very offensive to me.
Since my Son, Daughter, and Son-In-Law, have seen combat, I think I will give them the benefit of the doubt, in regards to their PTSD.
My Brother in Law, was with the US Army 3rd I.D., but by now I feel I am long winded, and will not tell any more experiences from my Kin.
Having never served in Combat, I have absolutely no clue what demons Combat Veterans feel, but am willing to listen, and show compassion, and empathy.
Sincerely,
Tony
CWO2 USMC Retired
( now fours years free of no Kin in a Combat Zone )
Andy
My Kin are alright, and the VA Hospital in Richmond has done OK by them.
Who would have thought that they all would have been front line combat. Seems like I was the only "in the rear with the gear" veteran.
My Daughter ( Step Daughter ), a Christian Lady, Thanksgiving, 2003, U.S. Army Hospital Baghdad, treating a Muslim Terrorist.
Ya just can't make this stuff up........
..... notice the "Happy Thanksgiving" sign on the wall .......
LOL !
I have a couple friends who suffer, I never knew it until they spoke bout it. It's real.
I misunderstood you. Please accept my apologies.
Amoebus's Link
Part of the reason is the name didn't exist yet, but a lot of it was that males didn't reveal perceived "weakness" as much then (my theory).
From the linked website...
"PTSD as a condition has probably been in existence since humanity has endured traumatic events. The disorder has only been recognized formally as a diagnosis since 1980. During the American Civil War PTSD was referred to as, 'Soldier's Heart,' in combat veterans. During World War I it was referred to as, 'Combat Fatigue.' By the time World War II occurred, the disorder was being referred to as a, 'gross stress reaction.' The Vietnam War found PTSD being called, 'Post-Vietnam Syndrome.' Other names for PTSD include, 'Battle Fatigue,' and , 'Shell Shock.'"
I also wonder if there isn't a different kind of PTSD from these last couple of wars than in the past? In WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam (and others), you were under extreme stress/danger, but you always knew who your enemy was (and mostly where they were).
In both Iraq and Afghanistan, there is no downtime. The soldiers would always be on edge for an IED, sniper, suicide bombers or one of their trained soldiers turning on them. It (for the most part) isn't as intense as the battles from the above wars, but the constant stress of the unknown must take its toll.
One of my neighbors came back from Iraq - never having shot his gun, but still a complete wreck. His job was to drive the road from green zone to airport and he was ALWAYS on alert looking for suspicious cars/trucks and IEDs. Once back here, he couldn't turn it off - his dad eventually had to come get him and get him institutional help.
I am sure you are right.
Most people, me included, cannot imagine the stress of driving down a road in a war zone, never knowing when your vehicle will be hit with an RPG or roadside IED.
Documents PTSD back to the Civil War, with Civil War Vets committing suicide.
I watched it, it is a real eye opener.
My Dad was an officer in a paratrooper company with the 11th Airborne in the Pacific during WWII and participated in Okinawa, Philippines and was training to be in the first wave of gliders if we had invaded the Japanese mainland. He suffered his entire remaining life from PTSD, and used alcohol as self-medication. The little he spoke of his combat experiences to me, and I believe I was the only one he ever spoke anything of it to, was enough to raise the hair on the back of my neck. The story I remember most vividly was about his best friend getting his head blown off right next to him by a Japanese sniper. He also talked about how many of the vets that came home with him being afflicted, but you didn't talk about it back then and it was essentially swept under the rug and you were on your own.
The earlier wars like WWII were different than today, but I think they just had a different version of hell, not anything that was less stressful than today. He talked about being out in the jungle and never getting a moment where they weren't afraid of getting killed. Vietnam was probably worse. Also, the deployments were measured in years. He was gone from 43 to late 46.
I agree with ar troy that combat vets are not the only ones who suffer. Think about plane crash survivors, etc. God bless those who suffer from it. It isn't anything you would wish on your worst enemy.
His family at the time saw it, too.
Back in WWII there wasn't a diagnosis for PTSD and treatment for it. I think a lot of returning vets from that era just drank away the demons.
PTSD can be triggered by any traumatic experiences. Seeing a guy get crushed in a grain bin can do it as easily as being in a firefight or an IED attack.
The frequency of someone getting crushed in the civilian world are pretty small compared to battles, bombs and traumatic experiences to returning soldiers though. So even though both can get PTSD, soldiers are at a greater risk.
I know quite a few guys who have spent years in combat zones and several of them face those demons every day. God bless them and I pray that God will heal them and give them strength.
Military Times article July 2016
And while it affects military more than civilians, there also is clearly something wrong among the civilian population as it pertains to suicide. See the above link.
"Researchers found that the risk of suicide for veterans is 21 percent higher when compared to civilian adults. From 2001 to 2014, as the civilian suicide rate rose about 23.3 percent, the rate of suicide among veterans jumped more than 32 percent.
"The problem is particularly worrisome among female veterans, who saw their suicide rates rise more than 85 percent over that time, compared to about 40 percent for civilian women.
"And roughly 65 percent of all veteran suicides in 2014 were for individuals 50 years or older, many of whom spent little or no time fighting in the most recent wars."
do you really thing growing up on farms prepared people for being blown up on a beach?
A couple of months after that, when I was thinking of getting another bike, I would see, just as plain as day, a microsecond version of that slide, or a car crossing the center line, or hitting a deer. Things that myself and friends have done. I would physically "jerk" sometimes.
I will still get them every once in a great while, but they did seem to wan a bit after I had picked up riding the bikes for a year or so. I know people that have been in wrecks that know exactly what I am talking about.
I can only imagine what a combat vet endures. Those of you who engaged, I admire and salute.
I ran across this this morning and am only getting around to post it now:
New Book Details Jimmy Stewart’s Anguish Over Losing 130 Men in One Bombing Mission Over Germany
Once upon a time in America, men were men and Hollywood actors and actresses were true patriots.
Via Daily Mail:
Jimmy Stewart suffered such extreme PTSD after being a fighter pilot (the author of the article got this wrong. Stewart was a bomber pilot) in World War II that he acted out his mental distress during ‘It’s a Wonderful Life’.
Stewart played George Bailey in the classic movie and channeled his anger and guilt into the scenes where he rages at his family.
Stewart was haunted by ‘a thousand black memories’ from his time as an Air Force commanding officer that he took with him back to Hollywood after the war.
Pilots who flew with him said that became ‘Flak Happy’ during World War II, a term to describe what is now known as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, or PTSD.
Stewart wrestled with the guilt of killing civilians in bomb raids over France and Germany including one instance where they destroyed the wrong city by mistake.
Stewart felt responsible for the death of his men and especially one bloodbath where he lost 13 planes containing 130 men who he knew well. Stewart’s anguish is laid bare for the first time in author Robert Matzen’s Mission: Jimmy Stewart and the fight for Europe, published by Paladin Communications.
Stewart never spoke about it, even to other veterans, and bottled up his emotions that came out in the acting parts he chose when he returned to Hollywood.
He acted it out during It’s a Wonderful Life, where character George Bailey unravels in front of his family – the emotional core of the film after a lifetime of setbacks, including being unable to go to war while his brother becomes a decorated hero.
Films like Shenandoah and Winchester 73 allowed Stewart to explore his dark side which was never there before he went to war.
Matzen writes that Stewart’s decision to join the military was less surprising than his decision to become an actor; his grandfather fought in the Civil War and more distant relatives fought in the Revolutionary War.
The book, Mission: Jimmy Stewart and the Fight for Europe, will be released on October 24.
MNRazorhead's Link
Actually, we have the battle of Okinawa, in a large part, to point to for them coming home. Okinawa was the last stepping stone to invading Japan and a massive invasion, in some ways larger than D-Day (see link below) but it's brutality and absolute fanaticism by the Japanese at Okinawa was later cited by President Truman as one of the major reasons he approved the atomic bombings rather than just go ahead with the mainland invasion, which had already been planned. 150,000 Okinawan civilians, 1/3 of the entire island population were killed (and 1/3 to 1/2 of the survivors were wounded), over 100,000 Japanese solders and 13,000+ American soldiers and marines, totaling over 260,000 people were killed in the invasion. It truly was a bloodbath and Truman kenw the mainland invasion would be many times worse.
Also, the largest number of combat fatigue cases ever recorded would occur on Okinawa.
However, Okinawa has been largely forgotten in WWII history owing to so many other huge historical events happening around that time that eclipsed it. The link below tells it better than I can.
Forgot to add above that all that happened on Okinawa was on a small island roughly 8 miles wide and about 60 miles long and that there were an estimated additional 20-25,000 Japanese soldiers incinerated and entombed in caves that were never counted. That works out to almost a casualty for every square acre of the island. Kind of puts it in perspective. Barely the size of a beachhead elsewhere.
I have never seen or noticed a time when it seemed like the war affected him in any way......he just totally forgot about it seemed.
What N8ture Boy said above may apply to your Dad, or he may have been able to compartmentalize those experiences. Men are inherently much more able to do this than women. Whatever the reason, very glad for your Dad and hope you two have many conversations to come.
Is anyone going to see the movie "Hacksaw Ridge" that is coming out in Nov? It is a true story about an army medic that won the Medal of Honor for single-handedly carrying 75 wounded soldiers and marines to safety at Hacksaw Ridge in the Battle of Okinawa. I have never heard of another movie ever being made about Okinawa.
MNRazorhead's Link
Now fast forward to present day. Because we use psychotropic medicines, with known side effects that cause thoughts of suicide and can deepen levels of life damaging depression...we have delivered a criminal and negligent service to VETS. I am a vet. A Marine grunt as a matter of fact. Some always have more trouble than others even though their experiences are almost identical. PTSD should be happening to the parents of those KIA. After all, they suffer the worst loss. I think its a stupid term, made up for the purpose of delivering high end, very expensive drugs.
As far as suicides related to this, I believe there was a recent article that mentioned that at least half the suicides have never served in a combat zone. A lot of the suicides can be caused by use and abuse of "psych" meds. Its a very slippery slope that were treading.Unfortunately in my experience many vets that are seeking treatment are either ignorant to the side effects of the meds or actually want to be on them for many various reasons. Not good, not good at all.
First, I certainly respect your service. I do disagree with you on your conclusion, as PTSD is most certainly a very real condition. I've lived with it for 16 years, and I assure you that drugs (of any kind) had nothing to do with the cause of it.
It's not simply a physical issue, as you might think would come from those horrors you described from wars of the past. The human mind can handle all kinds of things so long as it's prepared for it, but there is a point where many individuals can not handle the situation it is presented..either they are unprepared for it, or it exceeds their emotional capacity to deal with.
In short, it's like somebody takes your brain out, fubar's it, then stuffs it back in your skull. You realize a year or two down the road that, although you are living what appears to be a normal life, something is definitely not right with how you deal with stressful situations.
I've always been one of those.."Put a band-aid on it and get back to work" types, but when I realized I was not reacting to situations properly I hunted up a good counselor and got some help. It took 3 years before I started to feel like myself again, and over time I've learned to manage it well. There are some social situations I avoid like the plague, however. No drugs of any kind were suggested or prescribed, and in fact the counselor was dead-set against it, telling me it was an issue that first had to be understood, and then managed. In short, once you know your enemy it's a lot easier to avoid them.
To sum it up, yes Sir..PTSD is a very real thing, and those actually living with it (not just someone lying to get drugs) need to get it dealt with if they ever hope to live a normal life.
