Hillary has been known for what she is and that has been augmented by the alternative media, wiki leaks, and other groups using FOIA.
The flyover trod upon country are sick and tired of politicians who put monied interests over citizens rights and values.
The GoP created the perfect conditions for an outsider like Trump to take the nomination away from that group of more of the same politicians. The party has shown it is still blind and deaf to their voters leaving us a choice between a career serial liar and criminal and the vulgarian populist, Trump.
Glad you posted this before I did as it has a different connotation than it would have had I done so considering my POV on this election. ;0)
Hillary Clinton is the Cancer. Donald Trump is the Chemo. The people of the U.S. are the patients.
The above analogy I believe encompasses and expresses in raw terms our present day conundrum.
Those here who believe dispensing aspirin ( Third or Independent Party) to control or remove cancer from the body are considered in the medical fields a "quack". Those here who choose to refuse treatment for the aforementioned are not long for this world, much as the Republican Party is this day. To murmur to yourself sweet nothings and place your head in the sand hoping for a revival and epiphany of a future political savior will be exactly where they will find your head and your ill fated dreams.
Now is the time to act. Rid the cancer first and foremost. Then and only then will all things remain possible. The alternative where you will be headed is a place where they can't break a $50 dollar bill.... the bone orchard.
The Rock
If you are in a state that is already decided, I still think the most productive vote will be for Castle or McMullin. I don't think the republicans will get it either way, but there's a chance.
When the most oft repeated, most compelling argument, is one of hate and fear of evil, it can be reasonably assured the secondary choice is not being evaluated on its merits. The vast majority of comments on here in support of Trump are expressed in terms of hate/fear of Hillary. I think I get why, at least in part, sharing in some of those feelings that Hillary will be very bad for the nation. But it does nothing to evaluate Trump on his merits and worthiness to be leader of this nation. Heaven forbid someone tries to have a thread that leaves fear/hate of Hillary out of it and discuss what this country needs. The hate is so rabid, that trying to keep Hillary out is unthinkable.
The people to hold responsible for "forc[ing] society to pay a high price" are the ones that put forth two potential leaders that both will be bad for this country. And those who will remain party loyal at any and all costs. Unless, and until, more in society will stand up on solid moral ground and make it clear to both parties that we won't accept whatever crap they send our way, they will continue to send crap our way to vote on, and the race to the bottom will continue. The Founding Fathers Tried to Warn Us About the Threat From a Two-Party System
Trump is a bad choice, and one worthy to be avoided at all costs, even if there is anther bad choice out there that is hated/feared. There are good choices out there, and ones that could win. But not so long as people put party loyalty above loyalty to America herself.
I am American first, long before I'm Republican. And that is why I will not vote for Trump. It is not about feeling morally superior to anyone. Absolutely not. It is about sensing the dangers and not being willing to take part in destroying this nation.
Do you honestly think that has ever been persuasive, except on those driven by fear/hate. I have yet to see a post from you on the topic that does not try to invoke hate/fear of Hillary. It's fascile at this point.
Your hate/fear has blinded you to the fact that the devil is playing both sides. He has setup a no-lose proposition for himself by putting in candidates for both major parties, and inciting the people to extreme party loyalty. A vote for either candidate is serving the devil IMO, and a blow to America.
I get that you see it differently. I can accept that is good and right for you. Can you possibly see that other's feel differently? And that they in NO WAY attempt to support Hillary in having a different opinion?
Trump is a servant of the devil as well as Hillary. He serves in a different way, but still a servant.
In my mind this is a coin flip election, those voting for someone other than Clinton or Trump, when asked to call it in the air, are replying: "I say it will land on it's edge". I suppose that's theoretically possible, but I'll take my chances on Tails.
And no matter how many times you repeat your mantra (do you have that on a copy/paste list or something, geesh, it gets old reading it, can't imaging typing it so many times), it will never be true. Might work on weaker minds, but not those that evaluate Trump for the dangerous demagogue he is. It is a silly game of ad hominems you play. Its beneath the seriousness of the matter at hand.
Neither Trump or Hillary should be POTUS - not if we want America to continue being America.
I see we have another Seven Mountain Nationalist among our mist twaddling about hate and fear at the same time. The next thing you know you will be chastising the choice of Saul.
Thanks for the morning humor.
Then why on earth is 80%+ of your writing in most every post I've seen about the logically fallacy of the lesser of two evils? Your focus, based on your writings is most assuredly NOT about the issues. I see more focus on denigrating others than I do on issues. How do you expect anyone to believe your focus is not on "hate of socialism", castigating others as "dumb sheep", and holding fast to the idea that anyone not for Trump is supporting Hillary? I see the focus on the latter, not the issues.
The power seekers who try to hide behind a conservative cloak like Graham and McCain are nothing more than liberal Rhino's.
The party must adopt Constitutional principles.
Remember, true conservatives much less Constitutionalists demand limited government. These career politicians want exactly the opposite. This change must come from we the people, from a grass roots level.
Vote Trump or you are supporting the overturn of our Federal courts for decades. Vote Trump or Hilda and the Clinton cabal. No other choice.
One of these things is not like the other. Can you spot it? The republican party must change. Republican candidates hide behind a conservative cloak. Republicans must return to the Constitution. Republicans at present do not demand limited government.
But if you don't vote for the republican candidate, the one who actually was a liberal democrat until 5 years ago, the one who promoted and supported big government crony capitalism, the one who trampled citizens property rights, the one who agreed with assault weapons bans a few years ago, and met with the NRA about stripping those on the no-fly list from their 2A rights, the one nominated by the same party that nominated John McCain and Mitt Romney, you are voting for Clinton.
The republican party must change drastically, but you must support whatever candidate the republican party produces, or you support Clinton. Can anyone tell me why the party must change, or why they would even think they need to change, if you MUST support whatever they produce, regardless?
Sorry, this just doesn't make sense to me. Call me crazy, or a Clinton supporter. It won't be the first time.
If you have the opportunity, support someone other than the republican candidate if you actually want the party to change.
Pundit after pundit point to the anger at the “establishment” and “elite” as the root of the rise of Trump. Rightly so. The “establishment” and “elite” in both parties is disgusting, and terrible abuse of power. His speaking off the cuff. His no-punches withheld style. His willingness to take on anyone. The idea of shaking things up. His talk of applying business principles to government. Etc.
Yet . . . voting for Trump while he is registered as a Republican, and voting for him because ‘he isn’t the other person’ entrenches the power of the party system! It strengthens the “establishment”! You are telling the party elites, the establishment, that no matter who they put forth, no matter how awful and unqualified they are, you will vote for them, as long as they can be framed as ‘better’ than the evil other side. It further enslaves those who are choosing him as a way to escape the party establishment enslavement!
You want a major-league conservative party to be responsive to the people? You want the elites and establishment to be beholden to you, and not their own ambitions for power? Then DON’T accept crap when they put forth crap. Voting for Trump is virtually guaranteeing the party elites will be putting us in this dilemma over and over again. Trump may shake up the makeup of the party, but it (the party, and Trump as well) won’t be any more responsive to the people or their wants. The party will still know it can put forth anything, and it will be elected, as long as an R is behind the name (and conversely, the Dem voters and a D), and that the masses will accept the fallacy of “lesser of two evils”.
The false dilemma of “lesser of two evils” is just another way to maintain and consolidate power by the establishment. And people are falling for it left and right. It’s a fallacy that people are hiding behind to justify and rationalize their cognitive dissonance, and absolving them of the mental consequences of making hard choices. It’s the “I had no choice” excuse I despise hearing from the teenagers. Wrong! You always have a choice to do what is right.
Why is America even having discussions about “lesser of two evils”? What insaneness! We should NOT need to have such discussions. And we wouldn’t, if we would choose who is best for the country, not who our favored party put forth.
Disclaimers: The above is tangential to the lengthy list of why Trump is not fit and dangerous. It’s not why I’m opposed to him (and Hillary) being POTUS. It is directly towards the fallacy of “lesser of two evils”, and the idea that voting for a qualified person is a vote for the other. Evil is evil, no matter if there is greater evil out there. That kind of moral relativism could justify anything, including putting Hillary in (and the Dems use the very same argument as is presented in the OP), because there are worse choices. I’m not convinced a third party is the solution. Perhaps it is, but I’m not advocating that in this post. And no, I don’t see the above as counter to the fear/hate thoughts previously shared. They are two facets of the inane arguments to vote for Trump without every once critically analyzing his stances or suitability.
Wow. I am hoping that was just a poor choice of words.
Or maybe it is a good thing that the most we have to worry about in this country is an election every 4 years with candidates who look like angels compared to the likes of Hitler/Stalin.
Your arguments are not arguments. All the facts people are posting here you are intentionally ignoring, waving away as "fear mongering" just as you did in that last mess of a thread you started. It's not fear. It is fact being posted. And all the moral misgivings of personal behavior you have about Trump have already been applied to the Clintons three times over, it's a wash to say the least. Fact.
You KNOW what Hillary is going to do, her incompetence and criminal behavior just as SOS, her ideology, her proven lies..... her contempt of freedom and constitutional rights her whole life. Supporting a person for PRESIDENT who literally should have her security clearance revoked for her premeditated actions and crimes as SOS. FACT. Not fear. Claiming it "fear mongering" is not an argument. It's emotional claptrap. A coat of BS to deflect from the facts. These are valid arguments you are trying to wave off. You can't. You can have your own opinions.... but you can't have your own facts.
Your scales are broken.... or more likely ignored. Yes, Trump is a mess. Hillary is much worse by any HONEST head to head measure you want to use. Hillary is all of Trump X2, and serves an evil ideology with evil masters on top of it.
What I have must be worse than attention deficit disorder then. You give the above as a reason why the party must change, or why the party would think it needs to change. The party nominated Trump. You like Trump. You like Trump's positions. You vote for Trump. You are getting what you want from the party. Impetus to change? I don't think so.
Amen to that.......
Do I think our economy will take a hit with either one elected? Yes, very fast and brutal. One case will be from fear of what is coming and will rebound much faster and become stronger in the end; the other will be calculated and will do everything in their power to keep it there....desperate people are easier to control.
Folks like you, Troy, and Owl, who have been consistent, have earned high respect.
Elect Trump (a long shot, for sure) and the GOP is dead for decades. As it stands, the GOP is fractured, disliked, hypocritical and disenfranchised. They'll need years to regroup and figure out how to govern again. And forget about the Tea Party, they're a relic that gave birth to Trump too.
All there is with him is a slim chance he may appoint someone on that list. A list made up for him by someone else assigned the task to get the conservatives off his case. He likely never heard of any on such a list and clueless as to who they are.
One is a slim chance. The other is no chance. And that about all the difference there is to me. But it should be enough to choose who to vote for.
I am seriously considering >---H---> now!
you have really opened some eyes around here, serious enlightenment type things going on
are you an educator, by chance?
Judicial interpretation is a theory or mode of thought that describes a general approach which the judiciary uses to interpret the law, particularly constitutional documents and legislation. ... As a result, how justices interpret the constitution, and the ways in which they approach this task, has a political aspect.
What could ever make you think Donald Trump would ever surround himself with men of this character? The only appointee Trump has made in his political life and I would have to say he failed miserably and I do not have faith in his future appointments. Why? I don't know. Well, yes I do. I don't like him, Trump that is and like him less for making me sound like the that fool I am. Why else would he pick Mike Pence knowing what I know and knowing for certain what he does not. A confluence of ideal logical opinions born, bred and built in a house of straw, petrol in one hand and lit match in the other waiting for the inevitable outcome. Waiting. There you go. THAT is strategy.
The Rock
The Rock
Yes, someone did. Need some help?
If you revere and love the Constitution you will hate socialism, you will hate big government power statism.
I will vote Trump and Scalia and Alito. The Constitution and our founders thank me.
Trump is going to nominate and appoint Scalia and Alito type Justices and judges
Trump is proof that the old school big power establishment better change or get run over.
A lot of Newt Gingrich and Ben Carson and Rudy G in the direction Trump's platform is.
The answer isn't in getting a "Republican" elected. It's in getting a conservative elected. Trump at least will appoint and nominate judges and Justices any conservative will be proud of.
Trump will appoint Scalia's.
Remove one of Kagan, Soto, Ginsburg or Breyer and replace with the Justice Trump will place there and we have a different outcome. Trump will give us Scalia's.
He is not a Party guy, Trump is anti-establishment! TRUMP is going to force change to the Party, or THEY will lose control of their own Party. The Party had better move to the right, the Party had better adopt an America first approach or they will be faced with another Trump in every primary. THAT'S change.
These are all the things Trump is and will do (just in this thread) before I asked you how he was #6 on your list. Just saying.
“I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun."~ Donald Trump, in his book, published in 2000.
We won't go into Trump's idea that his sister, who found a Constitutional right for partial-birth abortion, would make a "phenomenal" Supreme Court justice.
The Rock
Not sure who you are or where you came from, but I've been here since 1998 or so, railing against the republican establishment, liberal republicans, and socialist democrats since 1998 or so.
I'll find a competent adult to explain to me how I should have every confidence that a lifelong liberal is going to magically transform the party into the conservative juggernaut that I wish for. If Trump does it all for you, I'm happy for you. I don't need your smart mouth, and am growing weary of you trying to convince me it's raining as you piss down my back.
I have been a constitutional conservative all of my life. I have voted for and supported republicans and conservatives all of my adult life. You'll excuse me if I find very, very little that impresses me about Trump in that regard. I sincerely hope I am wrong about him if he wins the election.
What did you find so impressive about your former picks who today have proven to be the beasts who devour their own?
You mean you do not want to continue making these horrible decision on a constant basis as in the past. Correct? Fear not. Your gun shy ways are preventing you from making the right choice this time.
The Rock
The Rock
So now are you going to threaten me too now Pistol Pete? You're a friggen' joke.
See for yourself and list each persons "evil" involvement side by side. Not allegations. Facts. Records. What "evil" has Donald Trump committed that would warrant incarceration? None, because unlike Hillary Clinton who is protected by the status quo Donald Trump would in fact be in jail with the lengthy list of those in high places who oppose him this very day.
The Rock
I put The Republican party and Trump Ahead on each one of these points. With this in mind I cannot see how in the world anyone could conscienciously vote for Clinton.
God bless, Steve
Many here seem to struggle with that answer which is ludicrous IMO.
The Rock
The Rock
"A vote for anyone other than Trump, or to stay home in this case, is to support Hilda and the Clinton cabal."
Yeah I'm not too crazy about the same crap over and over, especially when it isn't true. Folks just like you have been trying to tell anyone not in lock step what their vote means, who they are supporting, why they are wrong, and who is responsible when bad candidates lose, since before McCain was nominated at least. Incessantly denigrating conservatives who balk at supporting liberals makes me question folks motives too.
"What isn't true? That there are only two people in this election?"
Well, there is that. Since it is patently, provably false. What is also not true is that anything other than blind support for Trump is a vote for Hillary. I won't go through it all again as you do your mantra in every post, and I don't really feel the need to debate it with you, since I don't really like your style.
There are more than 2 people in this election. Fact. Choosing to vote for one candidate does not necessarily mean you support another. Fact. If it does, that still doesn't mean people who don't even care to listen to, or try to understand your position get to determine what your vote means or stands for. Fact.
We are just about at the point that I can prove to you that there is actually only one candidate with a chance to win this election. What are you going to do then?
ar, You are going to vote for whoever you want and all your statements point to Hillary Clinton or someone else other than Trump that doesn't have a chance.
Just do it. Why do you to continue to hammer the same point day in and day out? Just do it. I believe you could care less and just want to engage your fingertips for all to see.
The Rock
How about this. I'll take full responsibility for not making Arkansas a tie if Hillary wins my state by a single vote. In return, you guys take full responsibility for being jackasses if Trump wins, and/or responsibility for the crap candidate that Trump is, if he loses Arkansas by more than one vote. Deal?
Trax, as far as I can tell, you showed up for this election, and will probably disappear once it's over. Don't want to burst your bubble, but this is an internet message board. In order for you to affect my feelings at all, you'd have to matter.
I think his wife (his husband?) needs to slap him in the back of the head as he appears to be skipping.
Maybe TF has morphed from his 'evolution, brainwashed' tagline into this?
BTW - Nate Silver now has % chance of winning = Clinton 87%, Trump 13%. This is the same site that had them pretty close right before the first debate. It will be interesting to see what comes out of Trump's mouth the next 3 weeks.
Seen a lot of Sondra Ericson signs..she was a new trainee teacher way back at my school. Got the Ericson name from being married to Terry, oldest of the Ericson boys. She showed good judgement in divorcing him. I was friends with his 2 younger brothers, good guys..Terry was class A dork and jerk.
But maybe I'm digressing. ;) (like the old days)
ar, You are going to vote for whoever you want and all your statements point to Hillary Clinton or someone else other than Trump that doesn't have a chance.
Just do it. Why do you to continue to hammer the same point day in and day out? Just do it. I believe you could care less and just want to engage your fingertips for all to see.
The Rock
Amoebus's Link
With our built in checks and balances a President has far less power than what most seem to think.
The Senate and also the House are arguably more important races. If the Democrats gain 4 or 5 seats in Senate they'll have the majority. Since the Senate confirms Supreme Court nominees....the importance should be obvious.
It's not just Supreme Court though......the running of the country is done by the House and Senate. And of course the bloated bureaucracy which the federal government is like it or not.
Case can be made a President is more often a spokesman and figure head than a Leader.
Just some random thoughts....
If we get another chance at this in 4 years, how about we resolve to work together to nominate the candidate who gets the least free press leading up to, and during the primary? It would be a great way to avoid having the liberal media, and democrats in open primaries, select our candidate. Chances are, we'll come away with someone we can all support.
Couldn't possibly have been the hour after hour of free, fawning press for Trump, right? Nah, couldn't be. It's just coincidence that both McCain and Romney enjoyed that same free, fawning press in the run up to their primaries, right? Then you have 10 of the first 14 primaries in open primary states, where democrats, still banking on Hillary's coronation, are free to jump over and vote for the biggest turd in the republican sandbox. Voila. It's like magic, and it has worked for them 3 times in a row now.
NOT!
McCain and Romney were easy. There really wasn't a strong conservative around. It took a full court press to push Trump out front. Don't tell me there was no dirt to be found early in the primary process. That was being held until after they got their man. We should be smart enough to recognize this the third time around. Nope. Different bunch of suckers this cycle.
A couple of points; first the supreme irony that the pro-Trump argument is the very valid one that Hillary is the greater threat to our freedoms. The irony of course is that you are being attacked for the free exercise of your right to vote.
The second point is that your spot-on assessment of the MSM's desired outcome of the Republican primaries went whizzing over some heads with both alarming speed and in spite of repetitive utterances.
I'm with Paul on this one buddy; grab a beer, go out in your back yard and impart your words of wisdom to the nearest fence post. Yes, it's true the fence post won't listen or acknowledge your points but you'll get the benefit of not having your intelligence insulted, nor your character and patriotism impugned.
Normally I would say that a vote of conscious is not a wasted vote, However at this time I believe this may be the last vote we have if Hillery wins this election as she will complete the agenda of the progressives and load the electoral college to the hilt with more illegals and make them voting citicens It is obvious that the progressives , including Bush and family are one World Order progressives and their plan does not include a strong USA and definitely does not include the constitution as it now exists, Tattered though that flag be. So I will say it. If you vote for anyone but Trump and the GOP this time around you may as well kiss your rights as a citizen goodby and join the communist party of America.
God bless, Steve
ur welcome n stuff
Actually, no, I'm not, though your welcome to continue floating the theory. Let's look at what you have said as opposed to what you've not said. You have said multiple times that not voting for Trump is a vote for Hillary. Employing this as a standard comeback to Troy's (or anyone else for that matter) principled stand is an attack; not a direct one but an attack nonetheless. You've taken a scenario the target has posted numerous times is morally repugnant to him and acted as though his stance is a direct fait accompli to that outcome. Most people in Troy's position would in fact consider that an attack and in my opinion they'd have a valid reason to feel that way.
In the first place, since you seem to place a premium on facts, that's a false dilemna. Absent a slim majority for Trump (where the threshold % would allow electors to vote for another candidate) a non-vote is only that, a non-vote. Where you could make your case would be in battleground states where the threshold % could be met and a non-vote could in fact allow the unfavorable candidate to win.
If one normally votes Republican or sees themselves conservative they have two choices and only two choices.
You're making the wrong argument here; again, on a strictly factual basis there are 4 choices (and 5 if you count not voting) as there are two 3rd party candidates. The argument would have legs if you were positing it as "viable choices".
Vote Trump or support Hilda and socialism. That is not an attack, it is not an opinion, it is simple fact.
Again, absent the scenario I've already described (and Troy's fits it) your positing a false dilemna. It isn't simple and it certainly isn't fact, regardless of how many times you beat that drum. What I suspect is it is more rationalizing a passive-aggressive attack on those who you see as aiding and abetting a disastrous option. I don't fault your passion in railing against that outcome, I do fault your hiding behind semantics and continuing to insinuate blame on those who have based their stance on their morals and their principles.
It's up to Troy (and the others) to decide if the "moral" choice is to follow the physician's maxim "first do no harm." That's their call though and it isn't within your rights, my rights, or any other posters to feel that a campaign of shame is an acceptable tactic to convey your personal stake in this election.
I hear that if Trump wins, the GOP will be finished. Well, I actually agree with that. BUT, I think that it is already finished, the liberal media has taken care of that already. If conservative candidates(on a National stage) views don't soften before or during their campaign, they will never get elected now days, the media will make sure of that by making them look like fools stuck in the 1800's with all of their values and morals.....there is no place for that in our Country now!!
I do think that if Hillary is elected, the GOP will not be broken.....it will be gone forever and we will become a one party system. If the media is allowed to continue and expand on what they are able to do now, the schools keep going the way that they are, our borders are opened up, more businesses shipped out, taxes raised to support more non-workers and a host of other things that she wants to do.....we will become a Dictatorship/Socialist Country by the time she is done. Look how close we were to having a proclaimed socialist elected in the primary election, if Hillary wouldn't have cheated her way into a win!! We, as a Country, have too many citizens that want everything for free as it is right now, it will only get worse with Hillary as President.
With either candidate winning, our economy, I think, is going to crash. I see it crashing faster with Trump, but recovering at a much faster rate and recovering better than we have ever seen, mainly due to the fact that I think our current economy has been falsely raised and is just hanging on by a thread. I think a Hillary crash would be delayed by a year or better, only to crash much more and have long lasting effects due to a continuation of a falsely raised economy that could only hang on for so long with fewer jobs and more people drawing off the government.
Trump wasn't even in my top 5 candidates when the primaries started, but he is the only choice that I can see from this point out!
"You have said multiple times that not voting for Trump is a vote for Hillary."
Wrong. I have not said that multiple times. I have said that not voting for Trump is to SUPPORT Hilda and the Clinton cabal. The only way you can vote for her is to actually vote for her.
While I equated "vote" with "support" the fact remains that your premise is still, absent the exceptions I stated, a false dilemna. What is factual is the only way (in someone like Troy's case) he can support Hillary is to support her. Not voting for Trump is just that; not voting for Trump and it does not follow without fail that this action is equal to support for Hillary regardless of how many repetitions you post.
There are just 4 choices?? AS I SAID, there are millions of choices. I could vote for you, you could vote for Boy George, and the next guy Homer Simpson. None of these votes count, because they are not electable. NEITHER is anyone else, except for Trump or Hilda.
There are just 4 choices on the ballot; one is of course free to write in whomever they please. 4 choices have some form of a campaign infrastructure which places them ahead of any write-in candidate.
Now you could say it doesn't matter who somebody votes for in Wyoming or California, we know who's winning there. OK, yeah, I had pointed that out to. I didn't think I needed to every time.
You don't; what you need to do is stop insisting to people like Troy in that situation that not voting for Trump equates to support for Hillary. It doesn't in the real world, only the one you seem inclined to pontificate from.
You have every right to your opinion, and you have every right to be wrong. I am hiding behind nothing. Your whole argument is based on limited information and emotion.
I'll spell it out for you and type slowly.
I'll spell it out for you and type slowly; my argument is based on the fact that your equating not voting for Trump with support for Hillary is wrong. Let me know if I need to draw stick figures for you in crayon to help you with your reading comprehension. (or if you'd like a copy of "Sarcasm for adults" to replace your dog-eared copy of "Sarcastic retorts I read in the high school boy's room")
Sounds like that's right from Hilda's book of deception. There is no shame, there are no tactics. You've got to be kidding, or maybe bidding. I am stating simple facts. As I said before, it's basic math. TWO choices. Helping Hilda get elected is a funny moral choice to make, unless you really believe in her cause of course.
And that sounds like a textbook dodge with a dollop of projection. Of course there's shame and of course it's a tactic. The sheer volume of it's repetition belies it being anything but a tactic and it is shameful. Compounding the shame with a laughable attempt at denial only worsens the coarseness of your heavy-handed approach.
The "funny moral choice" you project doesn't wash with the high moral ground you seem to think you occupy. It's not rose petals around your feet; it's the muck of the sty.
I normally vote Republican...in futility, but in an attempt to stake a flag in defiance of those who surround me. In an attempt to send a message that resistance exists.
IL is in the bag for Clinton...whether I don't vote for Trump or whether I take a page from the machine handbook and vote for Trump several dozen times and fill out ballots for my dead relatives to vote for Trump. The lack of my vote is no support for Hillary.
The only value to my Presidential Election vote in IL is as a protest vote...to stubbornly proclaim that I am still here. It has been that way for a long time. For the first time, I am protesting differently. I am fed up. I am disenfranchised.
I am in IL. I can skip the turd sandwich and feel good about flipping the bird to the process. If I was in GA, FL, OH, IA, AZ...the math would be much tougher.
Not to sound like Chicken Little, but have you seen what they're projecting for WI? Election betting has WI at 87% likelihood of going for Clinton and rising. You may want to expend your energy and time working to utilize your powers of persuasion on those around you. Prioritize.
Funny thought. Vote for the nominee! He's a maverick! Dud. Vote for the nominee! He's as close as we get to a democrat! Dud. Vote for the nominee! That'll show the establishment!
Just a few more observations:
Troy you have my respect.
Mike, as always a pleasure to see you use logic and common sense with a nice touch of sarcasm in dismantling a faulty argument.
With respect to the actual topic of this thread:
I have always been of the opinion that there are absolutes in this world. The whole idea of selecting the lesser of two evils smacks of the kind of moral relativism typically associated with the progressive movement and secular humanism.
- Vic
So, the choice could be whether or not to support the lesser of two evils. It could also be whether to support a repentant sinner over a non-repentant sinner. Some decide how to vote based on a moral principal, others decide how to vote depending on the measure of the candidate (in the voter's own eyes). The two may not be mutually exclusive.
If a voter is a Christian who wants to vote as God would have them vote, they must consider than many times God has put immoral people to rule over godly people. Also, remember that in the Bible, the people generally did not get to vote for their rulers. When they did get to choose, they tended to not choose so well.
Proverbs 25:26 - A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring.
Romans 13:1 - Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
It does seem that many want to hang on words instead of addressing the thread though. Strangely I find myself in agreement with you .
God bless, Steve
Really? Then which bloviating idiot said this:
“Ideally we’re going to be together,” he said. But then he said: “I think we’re going to win even if we’re not together. There are some people I honestly don’t want their endorsement.”
At another point, he said, “There should be and there has to be unity,” before adding: “Would I win, can I win without it? I think so.”
And this:
He added, ‘I’m going to go out and get millions of people from the Democrats. I’m going to get Bernie people to vote because they like me on trade. I have to stay true to my principles also. I’m a conservative. But don’t forget. this is the Republican Party, not the conservative party. You know there are conservative parties. this is called the Republican Party.”
So, who would you say created those "never Trumpers" you love to blame?
I will be casting my vote for the only candidate with a verifiable history of shrinking the size of government, balancing a budget and supporting the 2nd Amendment unequivocally. Is he perfect? No. Is he honest and sincere in his stated positions? Does he support individual liberty above all else? I believe so.
- Vic
Couldn't possibly be the fault of those who nominated him, could it? The people who were patiently explaining, then shouting, then pleading the case that someone like Trump cannot defeat Hillary, they own this. The people who said conservatives would not support someone like Trump, they own it. The people who said that Trump's negatives were as high as the least popular democrat candidate in history, they own it. The people who said Trump wasn't a republican, much less a conservative, they own it. We are Hilda's best friends, gravy on her toast, and she sincerely thanks us.
Go drunk "S", you're home.
Ye of so little faith knew better than picking Saul.
How many sickening comments do you think the media could come up with for the other candidates? It couldn't be as many as they can produce for Trump, with all 16 combined! Start adding in idiotic and stupid comments and it's even worse.
The Rock
The Rock
Are you so easily manipulated?
- Vic
I doubt you could find a clearer portrait of the disconnect in what should be a bedrock foundation than what's been played out (and is still playing out) on the CF. It is heartening to see the posts of those who either get it completely or those who at least show a resigned understanding to those who are willing to endure unfair attacks and base insults to stand firm in their convictions.
People like Troy and the others who are in that camp will always have my respect; those who persuade that through deep introspection and weighing all options have settled on the lesser of two evils do as well; I know some of them fairly well now over the years and know that they do not come to that type of decision lightly.
Then there are the few posters who cannot persuade as their argument(s) lack merit, facts, or both and resort to an unceasing campaign of shame and school-yard taunts. Funny how those who toss them out (remember Troy "did I hurt your widdle feelings?") are so easily provoked with basic sarcasm into more of the same infantile pratter. Rest easy sunbeam; the gravitas of your postings have more in common with the soft down of a newborn chick than with the musings of the classic greeks You vastly overestimate your standing and are no longer worth further thought or consideration.
Vic-always good to see you chime in and as always, I'm humbled by the respect you and others confer.
Catching a flight out of Logan in a bit so maybe later tonight, post-debate I'll check back in with the adults in the room.
- Vic
To the best of my knowledge, there has only been one poster who refuses to support Trump who has been as dismissive, demeaning, and insulting as several of the Trump guys have been, to those who have decided not to support Trump. That poster and I have been several rounds this cycle, because of that very fact.
I have the same respect for those who have decided that they must support Trump, that Mike speaks of above. But that respect is reserved for those who return it, understanding that most of us have thought deeply about our positions, and each hold those positions for good reason. That lack of respect for each other seems to be my primary reason for posting these days, regardless of which camp it comes from.
We didn't choose Stalin, fate did. If one knew their history they would know the Cold War started long before Berlin fell.
The only thing Trump has going for him is he is not Hillary. He and his campaign should have been making that point all along. Instead he and his campaign have been telling everyone he is not who Hillary is telling everyone he is.
I think there has to be hope for North Carolina, just going by the reports of the legislature there, and what they are doing. Seems like Trump needs to be spending most of his time and money in Ohio and Florida if he is going to have any chance.
This is a perfect example of why it is utter folly, when you have 2 evil candidates, to try and choose which one is "less" evil. It's not just about the "now", it's more importantly about the future.
"Then Eastern Europe and Russia paid with countless lives for the ensuing 50 years. This might not be the best analogy in support of your argument."
Yep. Stalin may have seemed like the "lesser" of 2 evils at the time, but seen in the much clearer context of history now, Stalin was responsible, both directly and indirectly, for FAR more deaths than Hitler ever dreamed about. If you add in all the countries that Russia acted as a state sponsor of Communism for between the end of WWII and now, Stalin remaining in power is responsible for an even more massive amount of deaths and human misery, continuing to this day, all owing to Communism and Russia's huge part in spreading it around the globe.
God bless, Steve
Prove it.
"I guess I should go into greater detail and repeat the same points over and over for those who have attention deficit disorder."
"She needs all the sheep she can get."
"Have an adult explain it to you but here it is again."
"Have a competent adult explain it to you.
"I want to see Scalia like Justices and you support witchy poo Ginsburg."
It's at this point that I tell you, you are the joshuaf of the Trump side. My first sideways comment about you, after swallowing all of the above. Then after another repetition of your mantra, I comment about Joseph Goebbels.
"She (Rachel Maddow) has schooled you well, whether or not you know it."
"Well now there, I didn't mean to go and hurt your feelings now and all that stuff."
It's at this point that I tell you that I know I have a choice, Goober, and propose a wager on the outcome, where all you have to do is admit you've been a jackass.
I can keep going here, but you get the point. Your statement that you respond in kind is a lie. You sling crap, and expect people to take it, or like I should have done, ignore you altogether.
If is an amazing word. It can bridge massive gaps. And if Trump's worst enemy wasn't Donald Trump, he could win this election.
Donald Trump will be the next POTUS. What would be the reason behind non-belief the obvious other than a liberal agenda to keep the wheels greased? The hopes and prayers that he will fail? This race was decided by the people long ago not by the polling outlets nor by Hillary Clinton.
The people have finally been worn down and battered by a decrepit, fractured political system constructed from the outset to prevent and keep control from the people, by the people and for the people. The reign of this malfunctioning, corrupt, reprehensible system that has ascended to its death throes is long welcomed and the curtain can not fall quickly enough. Donald Trump is not the answer. Donald Trump is but a statement that the people should have made long ago, that the government should fear "them" and "their" power to either "produce or be eliminated". The truthful fact is that Donald Trump is the antithesis of all things created by this government. A government that has run roughshod over the people. Look closely and you will see the unthinkable. People changing horses in midstream, conservatives arm in arm with liberals, power brokers of both parties funneling enormous wealth with the media on their hip to stop one man: Donald Trump. They are failing because the people have bought enough government at any price. Time now to pay the Piper.
The shoe fits comfortably on the other foot and just as uncomfortably on those whose heads will roll. The beginning has begun and no power on this earth, polls, media or anything between can stop it.
History is being made folks and the peoples champion has been chosen from a field of one. The one that refuses to knock on the door but prefers to knock it down. The only language this government has always understood that the people could ever muster.
Gomer Pyle I imagine would say "Surprise, surprise."
The Rock
General rant over.
The Rock
As to the OP question.... that pretty much sums it up.
What you guys do in your swing states, what you feel you have to do.... you have my support and sympathy. But as ar and orion and myself have said and nobody seems to hear.... our states, as MOST states... have already been decided. We don't HAVE to vote for the POS just to keep a worse POS out of office. The true moral vote in our case is actually one of personal principle. Mine will not be for Trump, I'll likely write in somebody. The guy from Utah maybe. But if not forced to vote for such a repugnant human being I will not.
Thanks Trumpets. That middle finger..... working I would guess as intended, the only way it can. Offensive. Isn't that what you wanted, to offend everyone? It's surely what you've got...... congrats.....
I may just have to break out the Crayola crayon set for you yet sparky:
"While I equated "vote" with "support" the fact remains that your premise is still, absent the exceptions I stated, a false dilemna. What is factual is the only way (in someone like Troy's case) he can support Hillary is to support her. Not voting for Trump is just that; not voting for Trump and it does not follow without fail that this action is equal to support for Hillary regardless of how many repetitions you post."
You are lost in your own blither blather.
Actually, you're lost in your own blather, as evidenced by the fact that what I again pointed out above out was completely ignored; your premise that not voting for Trump equates to support for Hillary is flawed and remains flawed in spite of the endless regurgitation of it. Congratulations though; as on the plus side you've demonstrated you've gotten the hang of reproducibility. Of course being wrong over and over should never appear on one's resume under "other skills."
Wrong. No campaign here at all. I do respond in kind though. Every time.
Not wrong, bulls-eye. Troy summed up how absurd your claim of responding in kind is but I'll tell you what sparky; you roll out the post from me that preceded yours where I suggested you "cry yourself to sleep." That idiotic infantile taunt was textbook you; when you've had your ass handed to you sling mud. Great on dishing it out, candy-ass on taking it.
It is you that wet yourself when I simply made it clear that there are two choices in this election.
And another textbook example of the schoolyard bully; the only party soiling themselves here is you in your unending denials over pushing a false premise and having the paucity of your argument made plain for even the average 3rd grader, only to re-post the same disproven bunk. The choices aren't the flaw; it's the support argument you continue to barf up ad nauseum. Consistently wrong and you can throw in an obligatory chest-thumping and you'll still be just as wrong.
You WILL vote Trump or support Hilda if you're in one of them.
Wrong again sparky; if you're in a state not within the threshold % it doesn't follow that one causes the other. But by all means, toss that false meme out again and throw in a "my daddy can beat up your daddy" or some equally infantile retort while you're at it.
You brought a knife to a gun fight sparky and your drivel isn't even moderately charming anymore.
Now, leave the mature discussion to the adults.
- Vic
People who have no respect for themselves have none for other people either. Take out the trash, no matter who they support.
Then he didn't want to win from early on anyway. You don't crap on the people you count on and need.
- Vic
FYI, if you want to make claims about anyone's command of the English language and/or grammar you might want to refrain from retorts like "You have trouble completely a complete sentence."
I think you meant "completing" there sparky; of course all that infantile chest-thumping you were so impressed with yourself over probably required a recalibration of your brain housing group.
Keep up the tough talk too; if you'd made 10% of the points you think you've made there'd be no need for that nonsense. I can't begin to describe how amusing it is to see a bloviating tool go over the edge-by all means feel free to continue.
For the record sparky every man I've ever met hasn't ever felt the slightest need to prove themselves to a loudmouth. The insecure party is invariably the one who consistently plies that tactic; that would be you wearing that crown sparky.
You'd have been far better served growing up a bit more and leaving the mature discussions to the mature participants.
Now go stand in front of the nearest mirror and toss out some more sophomoric bilge. Be sure to stand with your hands on your hips and scowl; maybe the cretin in the mirror might buy the tough guy routine, everyone else here just seems an imbecile with a keyboard and not the good,sense to employ it in any worthwhile manner.
Thanks for the laughs!
Then it would follow that you are responsible for populating the Congress with these "conservative" scum who used conservatives of all stripe like a $2 whore. Correct? Befitting of you would to defend them no less, decry their actions no less and choose any other than Trump to carry the flag that you wail about regardless the voice of the people. You know what is best for all. I however know who you are. Nobody but trying very hard.
You are a fraud. A basic complainer and defiler of character of one man in all things through the spoken word of another that you favor. Small, weak, confused and inconsequential. You do not want to see change of any magnitude no matter the candidate. You much prefer and relish the prospect to complain about not having change. Continue on and fill your self serving cup to the brim. You are no doubt worthy.
The Rock
You need to rid yourself of the notion that republican = conservative Rocky, regardless of what CNN or Fox news says. I made that distinction years ago. Not certain which legislators I'm supposed to be responsible for, but if deflecting to a completely different issue makes you feel better about what some of us predicted months ago coming true before your very eyes, knock yourself out.
Change only happens if Trump wins Rocky. Been trying to tell you guys that since the primaries.
The answer lies in bringing actual conservatives together with the Trump supporters. The problem being that many Trump supporters, like you, reject conservatives and conservatism, just like your candidate did.
I don't think it would have made the difference in the election, but if Trump would have used his brain before engaging his mouth after he won the nomination, bridging that gap may have been possible in the future. Don't think it can happen now.
It's not about Cruz, no matter how much you want it to be. It's about Trump, and the lousy candidate several told you he would be.
How many times did we hear how he was going to take Hillary apart in the debates? Yeah, he landed some blows, but was any of it close to the expectation and proclamations? Was he unprepared, mis-prepared, or did he just not take it seriously?
I'm not saying any other candidate would have hit her with everything, but the fact remains that he didn't, and you and I both know he left tons of ammo on the table. How does a brilliant businessman and dealmaker do that, after essentially telling the base of his support to piss up a rope?
How do you KNOW so much knowing so little? Where is this trove of truthfulness and fact reside that your knowledge of Donald Trump outstrips all?
You "know" nothing . You speculate, you surmise, and you believe everything you "think" from referenced material. The media, the press the internet. I could be wrong if you had dinner with Jesus Christ and have kept that a secret. Short of that miracle you how else could you "know" proof positive.
You are not privy to special information that you throw around with the tentacles of a octopus. Check your own fuqn closet.
The Rock
This just goes to prove how ignorant and intellectually lazy thy butt-hurts truly are, with all thy time spent spewing tireless sniveling hate maybe you should of apprised thyself of reality , I am truly embarrassed for you.
Keep wearing thy scissorbill crown proudly, it suits you.
I can understand the guys who've done the tough math and made the decision to hold their nose and vote for Trump. I can not understand the fawning, sycophantic, near worship of the guy. It's disconcerting...actually creepy.
orionsbrother, do tell me genius, who and how your candidate of choice would beat Hillary.
Like thy fellow better thans, instead of supporting the only candidate who can beat Hillary you chose to tuck tail and take pot shots from the sidelines and dis them like thy fellow GOP boot licking Mavericks, so stupid and gullible they think losing is winning.
The Dem's admire and fawn over GOP quislings like thy self, fools who do more to disenfranchise right side of the isle voters then they.
That would be wrong liar, I support someone who is not a GOP boot licking schmuck who has a chance of beating Hillary. You bought into a slithering Evangelical Christian Nationalist Carnival Barker who you believed was anointed by God to hold Dominion over they Seven Mountains in order for Christ to reappear.
You can contend anything you want as you grip both cheeks to sooth the pain while wallowing in your indignation and spite of the lessor than who clearly out campaigned your carnival barker quelling any hope of thy Dominionism, but thee would still be wrong.
KPC nailed it...
Nice to see the Doom and Gloom crowd, and hand-wringers, alive and well on the CF. Carry on, gentlemen. I'll check back in another 4 years.
Matt
orionsbrother's Link
They just needed the Republicans to run their own bilious upchuck.
So, genius, have you thought about the fact that the Republicans, with their open primaries, had a record number of votes cast for Trump while the Democrats had a decline of more than seven million votes? Hmmmm...
But no. This isn't an electoral shell game or three card Monty, right?! This is a movement. A sea change. Groundswell, grassroots, force to be reckoned with. The unstoppable Trump Train!
So...what happened? Where'd that landslide go? Why is it that here we are, less than three weeks from the election and a woman with nothing but contempt for the rule of law, a lying, thieving, contemptuous, f¥€king bobble-head of a candidate, who is despised by a healthy portion of her own party, is running away with this election?
Because a bulk of Trump's groundswell was a con in states where he'd never win anyway.
Because Trump's too much of a narcissist to recognize that all he had to say is, " Good evening. I'm Donald Trump. I'm not Hillary Clinton. My running mate, Mike Pence will outline our platform and address how we plan to overcome the issues that we, as a nation, face. I am not Hillary Clinton. Thank you."
Because Trump vassals such as yourself carry on worse than Moonies, Hari Krishnas, Amway guys and AT&T telemarketers combined. At least they don't carry on with homoerotica, with insulting, stylized language.
I wonder if it was Foval, maybe Creamer that whispered in your ear and sold you on the Trump Train. Choo! Choo!
Chew! Chew on the turd sandwich, America.
Hillary thanks you and your kind for your efforts, slade. Lenin was correct. You can be useful.
WE ARE F***ED
orionsbrother's Link
If Utah, Arizona, North Carolina, Texas, Indiana, Colorado, and Nevada, not to mention Florida, Pennsylvania, and Ohio are battleground states, the whole game is being played on your half of the field. It means you are losing.
If we were discussing battleground states like Wisconsin, Maine, New Mexico, Michigan, Virginia, and New Jersey, I would say there is a chance.
The same ones who claimed Trump not win this or not win that for the last 15 months, good good almighty you guys are so full of yourselves.
Now you want everyone to believe you might of voted for Trump if his supporters would of kowtowed to thy lying crystal ball dissing Don whims. Yep, ye all are political genuineness, in order to win over the never-Trumps you have to allow the butt-hurts their safe space to wail and "gnash teeth" day in and day out.
In then to top it off, we have a GOP establishment ankle biting Maverick using Democrat propaganda as proof Rubio- the Gang of Eight quisling was actually the strongest candidate and most feared by Hillary and the only one who could beat Hillary, you betcha genius.
Do carry on though, thy lying blatherskites willful ignorance bores me.
...from the mind of fool on a carousel awaiting his destination, that being the next left hand turn. When did you alert the CF of this inside "your" head information? Where did this material that you somehow referenced emanate? Oh, I see. You concluded. You. The Republican strategist who has chosen loser after loser and is attempting to gain his rightful place at the bottom once again. Stay the course. Fits you well.
The Rock
Go pick some corn.
The Rock
Apparently you spent a lot of time listening to one certain poster, Rocky. Sure, there were several who said Trump wouldn't and couldn't win the nomination. Many of those were discounting the effect of open primaries in generationally democrat states. That wasn't everyone. I've been talking about this issue since before Romney was nominated. We let democrats pick our candidate, and then wonder why they lose the general. The republican party, and folks like you have got to get wise to this, or it's going to continue.
Recognizing the problem is not being "full of yourselves", it is being smart. Predicting the outcome of elections with this primary process in place is pretty danged simple. Getting people to recognize it with you, and getting something done about it is nearly impossible. The only plan I've come up with is refusing to support candidates that this process produces. One would think that since this process produces democrat presidents, those pointing it out wouldn't be the bad guys, but that's not the case is it Rocky?
I'm not encouraging anyone not to vote for Trump. I hope Trump wins. But I'm not going to come here and act like I think he can, because I don't. Let me paint you a picture.
Right now, the states that Hillary has in the bag gives her 185 electoral votes. Of the states that lean Clinton, NH, ME, WI, CO, OR, PA, VA, CT, and NM, the closest of these (ME) has Clinton +5%, which puts Hillary at 262 electoral votes.
The toss ups are FL, OH, NC, NV, MN, IN, IA, and AZ. Clinton shows up almost 4 in Florida, 2.5 in North Carolina, 4 in Nevada, and 4 in Minnesota. The only state that doesn't put her over the 270 threshold should she win is Nevada. The last time Minnesota voted republican was 1972.
Are you beginning to understand? Trump can win Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, Nevada, Indiana, Iowa, and Arizona, going 7 for 8 in the battleground states, and still lose.
A candidate who is not an abomination at least has a chance in states like Maine, Wisconsin, Colorado, Pennsylvania, and Virginia. That is the end of the field we must play on, and it doesn't mean we need a liberal republican. It means we need a candidate that gives those who think, a reason to vote.
Whew! I thought you were talking about me for a second, S. I'm voting for a 3rd party candidate, but I'm not attacking the only real alternative, I'm defending myself and others who are being attacked every day here.
I might be hoping for a Truman/Dewey scenario here but I will not support Hilda in any event. The only way to do that is to vote Trump. Hilda sure is hoping all those Repubs and conservatives stay home or votes 3rd Party.
Then it would behoove you to have a long talk with some of your Trump supporters here, predicting a Trump landslide. What do you think the chances that me discussing my strategy will influence more voters than people thinking Trump has this in the bag?
Tell us, who is a worse abomination? Trump or Hilda?
For me? Hillary of course. But my opinion doesn't really matter, does it? What matters is the opinion of the people in the 10 or 15 states that will decide this election. The republicans chose a nominee who was in a deep, deep hole in this regard, and nobody could get him to quit digging.
Also, identify your perfect candidate for us in this election and then for the next. Do you even have one?
Straw man much? There is no perfect candidate, S. I will tell you this, my ideal candidate won't have lived his life as a liberal democrat. He or she will have never favored stripping US citizens of their Constitutional rights without due process. They will never have even joked about putting a judge on the supreme court who conjured up a Constitutional right to a partial birth abortion. They would never have made statements about the government paying for everyone's healthcare, as if the government has money that it doesn't first take from someone else. Just off the top of my head. Would you like me to go on?
You may call those attacks, but they're not. They are the truth. If the truth sounds like an attack, that is you, and your candidate's problem.
Quite common, actually. About 10 or 12 of the candidate choices we had this year would have met those standards, S.
I would like you to compare the two choices we have in this election. Trump or Hilda. I would like you to go on about that.
I've been around here for many moons, S. Anyone who knows me doesn't need to hear from me how much I detest everything Clinton, and the rest of the socialist democrats stand for. You show up here, and almost immediately start throwing around insults and junior high digs at well known and respected posters including myself because we aren't toeing your line sufficiently, and you think I care about what you'd like? I'd like for you to respect the forum rules and register with your name like the rest of us do. How about we start with that?
SO you are recommending all in battleground states to vote Trump?
What part of "I would vote for Trump myself, if Arkansas was in doubt" don't you understand? My strategy never has, nor would it ever, involve facilitating a victory for Hillary Clinton. God gave you two ears and only one mouth for a reason, S. Try to figure it out.
Not one of those states is in play. Furthermore, by election day, there are likely to be states "in play" that most people are considering safe for Trump right now. Utah is looking very possible to go for McMullin (he's tied or leading in the last 3 polls of Utah over the last week) on the strength of the Mormon vote. Idaho next door also has a large Mormon population, and when Democrat voters realize they can help Hillary by voting for McMullin to keep Trump from winning there, katy bar the door. Hillary doesn't need Idaho or Utah. Trump does. Georgia is looking very close right now. The last South Carolina poll, a month ago, had Trump with a very slim lead, and the past month has not been kind to Trump, who knows where things stand now. Similar demographics in SC to Georgia. Trump is holding on to a precarious single digit poll lead in states like Texas, Alaska, Missouri, and even Indiana, all states that Romney won easily. My own state of Ohio is tight as a tick, too. Hillary might very well win over 400 electoral votes.
If you want to ignore all the polling data, that is up to you, but somehow I imagine that you and many others here would be crowing from the rooftops all night long if all these polls were showing Trump in the lead instead of Hillary.
Don't even respond to Josuhaf's polling drivel, he has been quoting polling/prediction malarkey for the last 18 months and has been wrong 99.9% of the time and giving him .01% is being generous, his prediction/polling accuracy is a standing joke on the CF, Vegas uses his rants to set the house odds against what ever he predicts.
Hillary Clinton Just Got Her Ass Handed To Her By Pissed Off Anonymous Hackers
Hillary and her crooked lapdog media will do anything to ensure a win this coming November. We’ve witnessed their blatant disregard for the truth when it comes to reporting on her scandals, as a way to keep Americans in the dark. But there’s a much more sinister propaganda tactic they’re currently employing that most people are unaware of. But once you realize what they’re doing, you’ll never look at the liberal media the same way again.
You can compare the crowd turnout at recent rallies and clearly see that Hillary just doesn’t have the same support that her opponent Donald Trump does. She struggles to fill even small school-sized gymnasiums, while Trump garners tens of thousands of excited Americans wherever he goes, setting starting records. Yet despite this, we still see Hillary “leading” in many of the polls around the nation. But as you will soon discover, there is a very simple but disturbing explanation for this, that hackers from Anonymous have just revealed. And it’s about blow the lid off of Hillary’s entire campaign.
On October 16, the Wall Street Journal and NBC disheartened many Conservatives, after releasing a poll showing Hillary’s 11-point lead over Trump, along with the assertion that Hillary will win the coming election by a landslide. But the hackers from Anonymous weren’t buying it. And after doing a little investigating, they came back with very disturbing evidence showing that these polls were not only “complete and utter nonsense,” but they have actual proof that Hillary is PAYING these corporations to draw up fake poll results, in order to discourage Trump supporters from turning out to vote on November 8.
Disturbing, right? But even more disturbing is that fudging with poll numbers is nothing new for Democrats. A historic example of this was from the Gallup poll released on October 26, 1980, just two weeks before the election, where poll numbers showed Jimmy Carter leading Ronald Reagan by a whopping 8 points, 47-39. But two weeks later, Reagan would not only prove the poll was complete BS, but would go on to defeat Carter in a landslide, with Carter conceding before California was even closed.
Another historic example of liberals and their lying polls was from the year 1988, where the Gallup Poll from July 26 showed George H. Bush getting his ass handed to him by Michael S. Dukakis by an alarming 17 points. We all know that this of course poll was fake too, as Bush would come out the winner in the election....
Is it not simply amazing how in lock step their agenda is ?
forWARD !
We'll see in a few weeks.
"Rasmussen a dead heat as well."
Rasmussen's last poll in 2012, a few days before the election, had Romney winning. Rasmussen is not considered a well-respected, accurate pollster, and hasn't been for a while.
If you're set on believing the polls that are way, way in the minority as to the state of the race, that is up to you, but you're setting yourself up for disappointment. The polls are not always right, and sometimes there are legitimate reasons to question them, but just because you hope they're wrong isn't a legit reason to question them as a whole, on the average. I predicted the opposite of what some of the state polls said during the primaries, and I was correct on that multiple times, but there were legit reasons to question those polls, and those reasons were borne out in the actual results. What are your reasons to question the majority of polls, and not question the accuracy of Rasmussen, which is not considered one of the more accurate pollsters?
Speaking of which, if you've omitted posting "battleground states" in your false meme "vote Trump or support Hillary" why then the constant drilling of Troy, who, residing in Arkansas certainly doesn't reside in a battleground state.
Well, it might be that you just don't take legitimate criticism well, as evidenced by his polite counters being met with a range of insults from the benign "have an adult explain it to you", "have a competent adult explain it to you" on the line down to his having a crying jag.
Maybe this could have been made simpler much sooner if someone merely asked you about your understanding of the term "support"; after all, it is the lynchpin of your faulty argument, that a person not voting for Trump is automatically supporting Hillary.
Supporting how? Posting a yard sign? Circulating mailers? Calling in to local radio shows? A letter to the editor? How about "using the force" ala the infamous jedi mind trick?
Stating a thesis does not make it documented fact and all the childish insults in the world do not alter that reality one iota.
Speaking of a lack of originality, have you checked your insults against what you can find in any high school boys room? Or is that where you sit and spit out all those charming retorts?
Contrary to what you'd like to believe it is you who have yet to prove your argument. All you've done is repost it ad infinitum and ladled out childish insults to those who asked valid questions. I'd ask if this is the best you've got but the evidence is already in and that would be redundant.
So make your case training wheels trax; how does not voting for Trump empirically, demonstrably equate to support for Hillary?
And please, do try not to bore me this time.
The Rock
The Rock
There you go sparky. Sparky. A nostalgic term used to measure the volts that may be emitted from the three major sectors of the brain before squinting, which is to induce a false positive. Now lets all play Mr. Rogers in Ivy League Land and take our own internal poll here at Yale Yodel University. How many CF members know the definition of the word "paucity"? How many times have you used the word "paucity" , heard the word or fell victim to the word of which you more than likely have not a scintilla of its meaning? My hats off to your exposure if you may have and is committed to memory.
Why in the hell would anyone use such a word in a relaxed atmosphere such as this setting, the CF? To enhance your own embarrassing clueless pompous a$$. That is why, Sparky. You should apologize for your heady approach without concern in literary jargon and show a modicum of respect, foreknowledge in place, of the audience in attendance. Lowest form of intelligence IMO. What say you Sparky?
How is that poll doing BTW? Who will come forward and show their polished educational veneer? I will be first. I have never found cause to express myself or to convey this descriptive noun for a simple reason. I did not know the definition first glance off hand. I doubt I would ever use it again outside this forum now that all will know the meaning.
The Rock
The Rock
Seems completely lost on some... or rather intentionally ignored. This is not a NATIONAL election. It is in fact state by state. I have no gun to my head to vote for him. Nor do many if not most here. FACT. REALITY.
Personally I want to distance myself as far as possible from him so no one can possibly mistake my hate for Clinton and the left as support for trump. In fact my vote will be pretty much for anybody BUT either one. They, and their supporters..... I have nothing for them that I could or should bring up right now. In time that will all blow over.....
I can only imagine in a few weeks the excuses and blame that they will put on people for what in reality will be their own failures, as both supporters AND candidate. Fitting really.....
The same can easily be turned around on those of you who actually believe anything that Trump says, being that he is a lifelong pathological liar. THAT is truly amazing.
I appreciate the sentiment but I'd offer this bit of advice (a bit of a twist from that famous United Negro College Fund ad of yore: "a waste is a terrible thing to mind."
Ironic that for all the issuances of "you don't know (fill in the descriptor) what Trump will do we can speak in absolutes of the effect of a single withheld Trump vote, a condition only possible with an equal absolute certainty as to the status on the other side of the spectrum; how many in the democrat/liberal/whatever camp are operating from the same mindset.
Absent an absolute knowledge of the state of equilibrium between the two poles the best anyone could offer by way of admonition to those such as yourself (speaking theoretically of course) is that not voting for Trump is potentially supporting Hillary. Of course it should go without saying that the reverse is also equally true. (Well, perhaps not for the more obdurate amongst us.)
Of course allowing for the indisputable fact that one cannot speak in absolutes would mute the browbeating avenue and where would the fun in that be?
It would appear that relativity in this case resides ensconced within anonymity; the metaphorical womb from which aspersions can be cast unburdened by the necessity of actual, tangible, quantifiable facts.
"The best thing one can do when it is raining is to let it rain."
Now. Answer the question... or....your appointed duty. Cream and no sugar. ;-)
The Rock
Looks like most of the rest have decided to stop embarrassing themselves, Rocky. Why don't you join them, and quit while you're behind?
The insults and bravado have been great, but boredom overtakes when that's all you bring to the discussion.
Couldn't help myself. Apologies for an inability to rein in my smart azz.
What is your problem and what do expect from those here who support Donald Trump? Take your own advice and convey your thoughts and answer with the terminology that may comfort you. The advent of the PC have made masters of us all.
The Rock
The Rock
I'll make this my final post in this thread. Respond if you'd like, but you won't see one from me. This is an excellent thread, but regardless of the thread or subject matter, it is perfectly representative of most of the threads on the CF, since the primary started. I'll tell you how.
There will be disagreements and differences of opinion between Trump supporters and those who don't support him, as predictably happened here. In response to stating my opinion, I've been called everything from a snowflake to a defiler of character, to a liar. Now, you go back through this thread, as I have (noting that some folks have seen fit to edit some responses) and tell me where people speak to any of you Trump supporters the way some of them see fit to talk about people with different opinions.
If you can't find it, think about why that is, and why some people will have a problem with it.
KPC, good thread. Sorry as usual for crapping it up. Remove anything of mine at your discretion.
Thanks AR, you brightened an other wise gloomy day....;)
slade's Link
Not here . No. The bastion of conservative "values and conscience" willing to watch their country turn against God Himself and in the process serve up their nation on a silver platter to the progressive agenda.
Sorry. Not going to occur, Judas. Dangle and twitch from that fig tree. Donald Trump will see to everything else.
The Rock
"The hubris of the defeated...not once not twice but three times". They will continue with worthless input because that is height of their skill set. They love to fight or feign it when their underperforming ammunition is spent. They beg for whip and the lashes in masochistic fashion to exorcise their negative demons. Oblige them. I am tired.
The Rock
Now is not the time to fret about pot shoting shills who think capons know best , we have a country to make great again.
,,,and so we will with the wind at our backs (the house ,the senate and the MAN)
The Rock