Bowsite.com

A niche vehicle at best.

But I say, "Let Tesla make it or break it on THEIR dime, not on the taxpayer's dime."

If you get a chance to drive one, I'm pretty sure you won't be disappointed. If Musk can do what he anticipates with the Model 3, he'll really have accomplished an amazing feat.

:-)

Bowsite doesn't allow it in URL add-on:

https://www.wired.com/2016/03/teslas-electric-cars-might-not-green-think/

Video in DLs link is interesting.

Guessing they have that lil exploding in to flames thing ironed out????

What are ya, a snowflake?? What's a bit of fire to a real man? Besides, what do you think God gave us asbestos for anyway? Hell, you gotta die from something!

Read the link in the thread above yours - lots of data. Accounting for battery construction, they still look to be about 2x times as good as a gas car.

$140k! That is $120k more than I have ever spent on a car (and more than I spent on my house). Sounds like he is very good at what he does.

I would agree to that. But even your site shows the electric cars are worse in the snow belt only because of the dirty electrical power. Each wind or solar farm that goes up reduces the environmental costs for the electric cars but leaves gas cars at the same amount. The TC just put up another 40 acre solar farm in Scandia with another 80 to come soon. That will probably alone make the TC pink (not camo).

Tesla also has an energy division (and Musk has a spaceship company). They have solar roof panels along with a wall-mounted battery storage (something our electric grid sorely needs). To me, it makes a lot more sense to have the government spend its subsidy monies on putting that system on every house in america rather than subsidize oil/gas and/or electric-cars.

Energy: https://www.tesla.com/energy

Tesla also is making a $35000 electric car. https://www.tesla.com/model3

On every trip I make to MT, I dream of the day when the auto-driving car becomes a reality. Sounds like this Tesla 3 has the hardware in place for that.

Tell you what.......if I knew anyone who's in law school right now I'd tell them to study the kind of law where they could sue GM or whoever when one their self driving cars has a glitch and kills someone. They'd only need one case and they could retire.

If they want to make a car that can do anything by itself then they should make one that can FIX itself!!

"Each wind or solar farm that goes up reduces the environmental costs for the electric cars but leaves gas cars at the same amount."

And what about the environmental damage they cause, not including the enormous footprint.

"To me, it makes a lot more sense to have the government spend its subsidy monies on putting that system on every house in america rather than subsidize oil/gas and/or electric-cars."

To me it makes more sense that the government STOP subsidizing these businesses. All businesses. Sink or swim on your own merit or those that CHOSE to invest. Not with my tax dollars.

Jeeze bowbender, you sound just like.....like.....a DEPLORABLE!!

Highly questionable statement, but what we DO know is that we are being forced to subsidize wind and solar at great expense (with the money going to leftists and foreign companies) and they will never replace reliable energy sources.

"Each wind or solar farm that goes up reduces the environmental costs for the electric cars but leaves gas cars at the same amount."

Bravo Sierra..... Wind, solar and the electric cars are all subsidized. Take away the subsidies, and it's nowhere close to the efficiency of fossil fuel.

Even the highly promoted ethanol additive to gasoline requires more energy to produce than it provides. P-chem is not part of the liberal green education.

No bus to ekalaka. Any chance of sleeping across the eastern 300 miles of ND, I will gladly take.

HA. Tough to find consistent numbers, but it looks like fossil fuels are subsidized $600 billion in the U.S.

Bowbender - "To me it makes more sense that the government STOP subsidizing these businesses. All businesses."

I could live with that. But, could our economy when gas = $6/gallon?

There is always a tipping point when it comes to energy. Pigs link reports that it is already better for electric cars in the southern 2/3rds of the country. And they admit that they aren't taking extraction of the oil/coal into their equations. My Wired article points out the mining costs of the rarer elements needed for solar panels. HA hints at the real problem with solar and wind - our grid has no way to store electricity during off hours. Tesla and others are working on that both locally and nationally.

From the link "Twelve such nations account for 75% of the world's fossil-fuel subsidies. Iran tops the list with $82 billion a year, followed by Saudi Arabia at $61 billion. Russia, India and China spend between $30 billion and $40 billion, and Venezuela, Egypt, Iran, U.A.E., Indonesia, Mexico and Algeria make up the rest.

These subsidies have nothing to do with cozying up to oil companies or indulging global-warming skeptics. The spending is a way for governments to buy political stability: In Venezuela, gas sells at 5.8 cents a gallon, costing the government $22 billion a year, more than twice what is spent on health care."

"There's another point that should be made here too. Those fossil fuel subsidies described above, they're not subsidies to the producers of fossil fuels, they're subsidies to the consumers of them. Yes, certainly, there's some leakage as the higher demand for fuels stimulated by the subsidies leads to higher prices for producers. But this is still conceptually different from the renewables subsidies which are expressly designed to go to the producers. Indeed, given the way that most of the green energy subsidies are constructed the producers are subsidised by directly over-charging the consumers."

The Wired article talks about it.

Never see one where I live...roads would shake the batteries causing them to either explode or disconnect. Electric cars and auto-driving ones are urban vehicles with point-to-point routing.

I've never seen (nor bothered to look) for reports of electric cars or self navigation vehicles in serious snow, rural gravel crowned roads or ice glazed roads. Anyone?

Electric? Naaaaah.............

Look up Darpa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Grand_Challenge)

On a side note, anyone know what kind of URL links work in the URL/Link field? Every one I try gets "Please match the requested format"! Does it reject https urls?

Tesla Workers in Revolt

Tesla uses non-union workers, gets federal subsidies, and pays them below the UAW national average.

The workers are in revolt, are in contact with the UAW, and are ready to unionize. They say the pay is not only low, the plant is unsafe.

But here’s the funny part:

The workers can’t afford to live in the Bay Area where the cars are made, so many of them commute hours to get to their job, offsetting any “green gains” the Tesla supposedly makes for the environment.

Mercury News-

Moran, a 43-year-old husband and father of two, has been with the company for four years. He said he’s proud of the work he’s done at Tesla to produce innovative, electric vehicles. But even with a steady paycheck, he said, it’s hard to make ends meet in the Bay Area. He commutes from Manteca, spending three hours a day in his vehicle, and can put in 60-70 hours per week.

!snip!

Progs don’t do capitalism very well.

I was astonished when I read that Tesla had exceeded General Motors in market cap to become the USA’s most valuable carmaker. After all, GM sells cars by the zillions, whereas Tesla squirts out a handful of prohibitively expensive electric moonbatmobiles for liberal virtue signalers who have more dollars than sense. But then I remembered that when capitalism has given way to crony capitalism, companies don’t get ahead by building useful products that people want to buy, but by being the most beloved by Big Government:

Tesla sold fewer than 80,000 cars in 2016, its banner year, while General Motors sold more than 80,000 Chevy Silverados every two months.

Yet the total stock value of Tesla is worth more. Here’s why:

Tesla is supported by tax dollars from the federal and state governments. Federal taxpayers kicked in $7,500 to lower the costs for the first 200,000 vehicles. The taxpayers at the state level across the country are also subsidizing the innovative vehicle manufacturer at even greater rates. Colorado taxpayers kick in another $5,000, while California contributes $2,500 per vehicle.

According to the Los Angeles Times, Tesla buyers had garnered in excess of $284 million in federal tax incentives plus $38 million in California rebates. Tesla also makes hundreds of millions per year from other automakers by selling environmental credits in California and more than six other states to manufacturers that cannot meet California’s “zero emissions” sales mandates. Nevada gave $1.3 billion in subsidies to Tesla to build its huge battery factory there.

Tesla drivers get subsidized even after they have made their purchase. Since their vehicles run on coal (or whatever else produces the electricity) instead of gasoline, they don’t have to pay into the Highway Trust Fund that maintains the roads.

You won’t find many Teslas in the parking lot at Walmart. Ninety percent of electric car subsidies go to the wealthiest 20% of households. This is called “welfare for the rich.”

Maybe Elon Musk is as smart as the magazines say. He has figured out that it is not about making cars, but about making friends with left-leaning bureaucrats.

And who really needs a car that does 0-60 in 2 seconds? Sounds like a quick way to meet your maker, to me.

Is it just ego related?

Matt

Yeah, I get the importance of toys for boys. I just never had a need for speed.

If I want a "fun" ride, here's what I roll in.

And, yes, I've hauled several dead elk in it. Just not so much since I restored her. ;)

Matt

That jeep makes me all kinda tingly.... Takes me back to the late 70's top off, Jensen Triax's kickin out some REO....chasin girls...

AC/DC kicked REO's a$$!! ;) The chicks always digged the Eagles, or Jackson Brown. I liked all of it, so I was usually content.

Matt

Love me some AC/DC as well! And Skynyrd, Zeppelin, Eagles, Allman Brothers, Journey.... So many.... But there is something about "Roll With The Changes" that always puts a smile on my face. Every. Single. Time.

Thanks for the complement. It's a AMC 360. It was my first engine rebuild. It replaced the original 258 I6.

At 325 HP/360 lb torque, it's plenty for a little CJ.

Matt

Without government subsidies, they are as kentuckybowhunter said...overpriced coal powered battery operated vehicles hyped by the gorbalists. In reality, shiny enamel coated pig lipstick.

The Model 3 is starting to ship (in limited numbers now, more broadly in 2018) and promises about 85-90% of the Model S performance in a slightly smaller 5 seater starting at $35K. Plan on installing a 220V/50A plug at home and your son will be good to go. CA has a bunch of Super Stations for free charging.

That said, other than looking awesome when you drive it around town, you can't really go anywhere with it. Even the upgraded model with a bigger battery is only good for 348 miles before it needs recharging, which is a multi-hour process.

As for me, I'm AVERAGING 34.5 mpg on my new 2015 MBZ C Class since I bought it a few months ago. It's scary fast and has awesome acceleration. Most of that gas mileage has come at Interstate highway speeds ranging from 69 mph to 84 mph.

So basically this car is an automotive version of a cordless tool, but one that I can't carry a spare battery for or a charger. And even if you could, you'd be stranded until the battery charges up.....WHEN you get to an "outlet". No thanks.

Damn! I had 2 spare Tesla's and the first person i thought to give one to was you!

From your speech (from 1907), I am a little confused how you could trust plug-in tools? What if the power is out or the outlet has shorted out or your extension cord isn't long enough or ... ?

My buddy and I framed and finished his basement last summer. We could have done it with framing hammers and handsaws, but the battery tools made it a fast and convenient job - to each his own, I guess.

1. I DO own cordless tools and I use them.

2. They regularly FAIL when I need them.

3. They do come with spare batteries and a charger so I can charge them right on site so I don't lose any time, other than what it takes to change the battery and plug the charger in because I'm not in transit.

4. With a cordless electric car you are screwed when the battery fails. And it WILL fail.

5. Just for the record I still carry a handsaw and a hand drill so if ALL the power goes off I don't have to sit around with my thumb in my posterior until it comes back on.

http://teslapedia.org/model-s/tesla-virgin/what-if-you-completely-run-out-of-charge/

"When my vehicle runs out of fuel I only need to remember three words - put gas in."

I think that pretty much covers it!

From article: "...Critical to attacking the Model S was the onboard Wi-Fi and 3G radios. The Wi-Fi in the Model S tries to reconnect with known networks. That's true—and not great security—for many devices, but all Tesla vehicles are exposed to the same Wi-Fi network during construction, which has an easily guessed password. From there, the team attacked the vehicle's built-in browser, which they admitted was harder than expected because Tesla had already patched known vulnerabilties..."

"...The team told the audience that shortly after the Tesla rolled out the new kernel, they found a zero-day vulnerability that allowed them to completely bypass the new code-signing mechanism..."

Video of hacked Tesla is pretty cool as to what can be controlled remotely when hacked.

Here's A Practical Use For A Tesla Model S: A U-2 Spy Plane Chase Car

Designed in the 1950s and still used today, the Lockheed U-2 (nicknamed Dragon Lady) is a super specialized, high-altitude spy plane. It’s light enough to fly at 70,000 feet, but notoriously difficult to operate. Especially land. Landing is a bitch and a half. That’s where a Tesla Model S comes in.

The easiest way to land a U-2, the Air Force eventually discovered, was to have a chase car on the ground along with a group of spotters, acting as eyes for the U-2 pilot. And these chase cars needed to be fast to keep up with the incoming aircraft. Back in 2010, we took a closer look at how this was done:

Because of the speeds involved, the chase cars are usually high-performance cars. They wait at the end of the runway, and when the U-2 passes, they burn rubber to keep up, calling out altitude and wing attitude over the radio. When the airplane’s main gear is roughly two feet over the tarmac, the pilot deploys several sets of spoilers and flaps to reduce lift and minimize wing drop, lowers the plane down, slows to a stop while balancing on the two center wheels, and then drops a wingtip to the ground (they have titanium skidplates for this purpose) and stops. The “pogo” wing landing gear that fell off on take-off are then reattached, and the U-2 taxis to its hangar. The addition of the chase cars all but eliminated serious landing accidents.

In the past, the USAF has used Pontiac GTOs, Chevrolet El Caminos and Camaros. They needed cars that could accelerate fast and reach speeds of about 140 mph, all while staying in close behind the plane, all while at the same time keeping way clear of it.

And now it seems that the Tesla Model S is being used as a chase car. In a video uploaded last week by YouTuber Elliot Langram, we can see a Model S following a U-2S during takeoff at the RAF Fairford base.

With a top speed of a claimed 155 mph and a zero to 60 time of at least 3.2 seconds (it’s unclear which Model S is being used in the video), the Tesla definitely seems like a good pick to keep up with the U-2.

For all of you wondering if cars can catch planes, here’s your proof.