In Illinois to get a CC permit you need to take 16 hours of classes and pass a range shooting test. My wife, her brother, several friends and I had a NRA instructor come to her brother's office last Saturday for the first 8 hours and the range test. The first day covered basic firearm (handgun) stuff from function to ammo to cleaning. We then went to a range and we all passed that part.
This Saturday he will cover the legal/situational/strategic part of it. The first day what he covered was nothing new to me, and I could have probably taught it myself. But this week is where I really have some questions for him. This part is all new to me.
So please gang, feel free to suggest any questions I could ask him about this. I want to learn as much as I can, and hopefully you may come up with a perspective that I hadn't (or should) consider.
I'm all ears! (Or eyes.....as the case may be).
bk......are you out there?
Sounds stupid enough for me to think it might be plausible here in IL.
Terry
As far as speaking, you only say you will be happy to cooperate as soon as you consult with your attorney (hint, hint - get an attorney now).
And remember, if you are forced to use your firearm in self defense, you shoot to stop the threat. Don't ever say 'shoot to kill'. Once the threat stops, you stop.
I'd ask about the lawfulness of the "no carry" zones, i.e. what kind of punishment there is if you get caught carrying in one because you didn't see the sign.
On another note, you never speak to the police except to give name, rank and serial number. Only after you and counsel discuss and weigh the risks. It is almost never helpful. Now, in some CCW contexts, there may be a video of the shooting, but I still strongly recommend you don't speak. Have a good attorney and a bondsman's phone number in your wallet, you may need both.
One more question.......
Does any one have any experience or have any thoughts on the CCA (Concealed Carry Association)? Apparently if you're a member you call them first if you've had to use your weapon and are arrested and they will immediately post bond, etc.
I believe that if someone chooses to carry, they knowingly and willingly accept a level of responsibility that most people never even consider. Think about it, a lot. Decide if and under what circumstances you would use your firearm. Get informed, get trained, become a student of the laws, the firearms, etc. I think that too many people get a CCW, buy a handgun and a holster and call it good. It's a huge responsibility, and it's probably not for everyone. For the Sheepdogs among us, it's the only way however. Good luck.
Man, that's just pure funny, right there. LOL
That'd be good to know when trespassing, speeding, running stop signs, etc? :-)
gflight's Link
This forum would be a good resource....
http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?act=idx
The point of carrying is to save your life or the life of a family member or other innocent person. Gun free zones are far from immune to situations where self defense may be needed. Seems like they are actually pretty popular targets. Its like a law that says life jackets have to be removed and put on shore before you and your family go through a certain stretch of rapids on your river run.
Another really good reference on state laws and reciprocity.
Many states have passed "castle law doctrine". Worth finding out just where you stand WRT that in your local. When Michigan first passed its law, many were skeptical and a number of local prosecutors addressed the issue putting a shooter under duress with long investigations about possible prosecution. Over time, (from reading news), defensive shooting is accepted as long as it seems reasonable. Firing at an escaping vehicle can land one in trouble for the simple fact that the shooter was no longer in danger. A topic worth addressing in class.
5 Common Mistakes Good Guys Make In Self-Defense Situations
Worth a read.
If you do need to use your weapon, make sure it's a real threat.....on the other hand, always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
I'd be curious to hear about if you were in a threatening situation and you brandish your firearm to de-escalate the situation, but don't actually fire it. Can you get in trouble for that? need to report it? I can see this situation could happen like to avoid a fight, road rage incident, etc.
BREAKING: House Votes to Overturn Obama’s Gun Ban for Social Security Recipients
Congress voted just moments ago to scrap former president Barack Obama’s “Social Security gun ban.” The ban, which targeted the elderly and disabled (two populations which might have a stronger case for the need for a firearm for self defense than any other) added individuals who had their finances managed by someone else to the list of prohibited persons in the National Instant Check System used to process background checks for firearm sales. Barack Obama implemented the ban via executive order, circumventing Congress.
Obama had previously stated that his inability to pass gun control legislation was one of the biggest disappointments of his career and that he would side-step Congress if it was a means to an end to enact his policies. He had added the new rule under the auspices of keeping guns out of the hands of the “mentally ill,” a narrative that the mainstream media is continuing in their reaction. From the Washington Post:
Under the rule, the Social Security Administration would provide information to the gun-buying background check system on recipients with a mental disorder so severe they cannot work and need someone to handle their benefits. The rule, finalized in December, affects an estimated 75,000 beneficiaries.
The rule, House Joint Resolution 40, passed the House of Representatives mostly along party lines. The resolution now moves to the Senate, where the Republicans hold a tenuous majority. If it passes the Senate then the resolution would go to the President for final approval before coming into effect.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled topic ;o)
Seriously.
I took my first Carry Course as soon as I became a NV resident in 2009. I took it again in 2014 when I renewed it. I chose not to go to the 'public class' where lots of people would be in attendance. Instead, I paid a little more for a personal/private course.
I did that for two reasons:
1. I wanted a one-on-one exchange of information and questions.
2. I didn't want to waste my time listening to other's questions and off-topic issues.
My instructor was, both times, the retired firearms instructor for the Reno PD, so he had years and years of practical experience. When it got to the 'shoot, don't shoot' issues, he had all sorts of actual cases here in Washoe County he used as examples. Some were obvious 'shoot' cases and others, in my thinking, including one in particular, leaned somewhat or even strongly towards the 'don't shoot' side. Yet in EVERY case, 'shoot' was not a problem for the County DA's office and no charges were filed on any of them.
Just one more reason I'm so happy I moved here.
Took a 3 day course in firearms, and was then issued a vintage company S&W 38cal revolver. It was old, but shot straight and I could punch the 10 ring at 20 yds. 9 out of 10 times.
Best part, my duty station was a bank located right in the best part of Newport Beach, Ca. While always professional, I had the duty to observe beautiful women coming and going all day long. Not to mention they paid me well for this. Tough duty, 'eh?
I was still young, but smart enough to know that when I traveled to and from work I'd put my Sam Brown belt w/unloaded revolver on the passenger seat in full view.
Got stopped by a cop one day, and in short, before he walked up to my car I had both empty hands hanging out the drivers window. He asked me why, I told him exactly (damn near word for word) what you suggested, above.
We had a brief discussion about my broken left turn signal (bulb out), and he wished me a nice day. No drama, no danger to anyone.
Damn good advice, and if it happened again, I'd do and say exactly the same thing.
p.s. About a month later I was standing post in another branch of the bank, and observed a rather questionable fellow casing the inside. He scribbled something on a deposit ticket, and left, leaving it on the counter. Took at look at it and he'd written it out for "all the money". Called the cops, and they busted him in the parking lot. He was the same guy who'd robbed all the other branches, but when he saw me in the corner watching him, he left.
He thanked me for giving him the heads up asked me to take bag out of car, place it on the trunk, and get my stuff. I did as he asked and there was no problem. He gave me a warning and said I handled it perfectly.
I also have to think my body language and calm demeanor helped keep tension levels low.
I pretty much do the hand thing now if I'm stopped, especially at night.
Here are a few other tips... Anytime you are approached by any type of LEO always tell them you have a CCW permit, whether you are carrying or not. I have been stopped three times since having my CCW, twice while carrying. Only had an issue when I wasn't carrying and didn't bother telling the officer I had a CCW. He went to the car to run my info and found out about my CCW. Made me get out of the car to question me about it, but nothing major. Had I said I have a CCW, but am not carrying I would have never had a problem. Both other times I was stopped while carrying I told them immediately and never had an issue.
The most important thing you can do though is to remember "I FELT MY LIFE IN DANGER"
If your life really is in danger make sure you kill the offender. You don't want to shoot him twice and then hope me makes it. You want the threat eliminated. Don't worry about overkill (it just reinforces how truly fearful you were)
The last bit of advice I have is to also remember it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6...
Every day reports of self defense and how local/state authorities deals with the shooter. In many states, prosecutors are siding with the home defender.
‘Santa shooter’ says defending his life was costly
Marcus Weldon said defending his life cost him thousands of dollars, his reputation and a few relationships.
The Southfield resident was dressed as Santa Claus on Dec. 21, 2014, when he and a female coworker, also clad in a Santa costume, left a holiday work function and drove to a downtown Detroit gas station. Weldon said two men began harassing her and, when he tried to intervene, one retrieved a gun from his car.
Weldon, 28, who has a license to carry a concealed pistol, pulled out his .40 caliber semiautomatic and fired four shots, wounding both men. He was arrested, charged and tried; a jury in June found him not guilty.
Since the acquittal, the single father said he’s trying to put his life back together. He said the ordeal set him back about $50,000 between legal fees and paying for the tether he wore while awaiting trial. He also said the incident alienated some anti-gun friends.
Weldon has written a 200-page manuscript about his experience:“The Santa Claus Shooter: Guilty Until Proven Innocent,” and said he’s negotiating with a publisher.
“I want to warn people what can happen to you if you legally use your firearm to protect yourself,” Weldon said. “Since I’m not a criminal, I thought if I ever had to use my gun, people would look at me like I did the right thing. That didn’t happen.
“When you get caught up in the system, even if you were in the right, it’s a nightmare,” said Weldon, who works at MGM Casino doing building repairs and odd jobs.
“Some people who I looked at as friends and mentors turned their backs on me because they’re anti-gun,” he said. “But I also met a lot of people from the gun community who supported me.”
Shootout with Santa
In addition to his casino job, which he’s held for more than nine years, Weldon had a part-time gig doing promotions for Remy Martin cognac. He had just finished working a holiday promotional event in a downtown club when his coworker Erica Johnson told him she needed to put air in her tire. He followed her to the Speedway gas station on East Jefferson near Larned. Both were still dressed in Santa suits.
Weldon said Johnson was at the gas station window when he saw a man arguing with her. “Next thing I know, he takes his arm and elbows her. She kind of stumbled. I said, ‘Hey, what are you doing?’ He turns around and ... storms at me. Then he pushes me.
“I could see he was drunk; his eyes were red. I said, ‘Get back; I’m warning you.’
“He runs to this black (Dodge) Charger where his buddy was, and I’m hoping he’s getting into the car to leave. But he starts digging under the seat looking for something. I thought, ‘He’s about to get his gun.’ Then he comes out with his firearm and takes a step toward me. I fired the first shot after I saw him with the gun.
“I heard return fire. I’m like, ‘Oh, crap, he’s firing back at me.’ I’m in shock. I shoot again while I’m walking away. (Johnson) is screaming, so I figured she’d been hit ... I pulled out my phone to call 911. I’m dialing the phone, and I hear tires spinning out, then I see these headlights coming at me. I thought it was those guys coming to run me down, so I grabbed her and we took off running down Larned.”
The headlights belonged to an unmarked police car, also a black Charger.
“They got out, pulled their guns on me and told me to get on the ground,” Weldon said.
He lay on the sidewalk outside St. Andrew’s Hall. “The club is letting out, so there’s people taking pictures of me while I’m on the ground in this Santa suit.”
Weldon caused a stir when officers escorted him into the Mound Correctional Facility on Detroit’s east side.
“I was the laughingstock of the jail,” he said. “Here I am, walking in there in a Santa Claus suit. Later on, the news is covering my case; I’m on all the TV stations, and (other inmates) are making fun of me.”
Weldon was charged with seven felonies, posted bail and was put under house arrest.
“The day before (the shooting), I was at a Christmas party with the mayor. So I go from being in this high point in my life to, wow, now I’m on the news.”
Both men Weldon shot lived, and he was charged with assault with intent to commit murder. He said prosecutors offered him plea deals, but he refused.
Weldon finally stood trial in June, 18 months later, and testified in his own defense.
“When they finally said ‘not guilty’ on all the charges I, started crying. I tried to hold it together but my face was like Niagara Falls,” he said.
Words of wisdom
Weldon has advice for concealed-pistol license holders: “Don’t go into situations where you might have to use your gun. But if you do, keep your mouth shut. I know you want to tell the police that you’re innocent, but don’t do it. You’ll only incriminate yourself.”
Detroit attorney Terry L. Johnson, who specializes in firearms cases, said Weldon’s experience is common for people who use guns to defend themselves.
“He got lucky, because his parents had the means to hire a good attorney,” said Johnson, who did not represent Weldon. “I always ask people: If you had to shoot someone in your home at 2 in the morning, do you think the police are going to say, ‘great job, you got the bad guy’? A lot of people actually think that, but that’s not how it works.”
Would Weldon pull the trigger again?
“I’ve always been a pacifist, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to be a victim. Even Martin Luther King applied for a permit to carry a gun” in 1956 after his house was firebombed.
“If it comes down to me or him, it’s going to always be him ... I’ve got a 7-year-old daughter. I can’t take that chance.”
Anony Mouse's Link
Goal: Show that shooting was more likely than not self-defense
Good article...worth reading.
The net result to you, if you have the wrong DA, is that it's not the silver bullet that ends the trial before it happens. It's to be asserted at trial. So, you're out $50-100k or better to get back to "normal life" after the shooting. The above story is an example.
