Help me decide - Gas or Diesel F-350??
Community
Gas 350 is way under powered. Diesel is the way to go if you don't mind higher price tag and 2x the maintenance costs.
The diesel will cost quite a bit more but I like diesel. I towed a 38 foot Newmar fifth wheel camper for a few years and the diesel was the way to go if you got in hills. Also the Alison transmission is the best there is. That is who puts transmissions on the vehicles that are roving Mars. I would get 22 MPG without the trailer and 11 MPG when towing. That was with a Duramax diesel.
Pat,
I owned a 2002 F250 with a 7.3L diesel. The novelty of the diesel engine wore off quickly. I grew to hate the noise, stink, and black cloud out the tailpipe. I had to turn the damn thing off to order at a drive-thru, or talk to someone along side the road.
The 7.3L was touted as a 250K mile engine. That may be, if you don't mind changing injectors every 80K, which was my experience. YMMV.
I know some of the newer diesel engines are more quiet, and efficient, but I'll never own one again.
Matt
Get a Duramax 6.6 liter diesel with the Allison transmission. GMC Sierra 3500HD Dually. Get the Denali package if you can, with all the buttons. 445 horse power, 910 ft lbs torque. Perfect pulling machine. You will barely know your 12,000 lb tractor/excavator are back there.
Diesels are great as long as they're running - maintenance/repairs are not cheap.
Had a 3/4 ton that lost an injector that eventually washed out a cylinder (story for another day). Put in a used but in good condition replacement engine that just wasn't the same so traded it off. If I had it to do all over, I would have dropped in a new Cummins and would still have it today.
to me the extra cost for the diesel is not worth it....but then I don't need it either. I will say I have got 11-12 miles per gallon for the last three trucks or so and I'm pretty used to the gas route. A 1 ton with the big gas engine and you will have plenty of power to pull that tractor. I agree....get the Lariat. I love mine.
I have a 2011 F-350, I tow a four horse trailer loaded with horses and gear mostly. Also tow a skid steer and attachments. I wouldn't own anything but a diesel for the loads I haul. There is no comparison.
I have an f250 lariat, diesel, difference in capability between gas and diesel is significant. Fuel mileage is also significant. there is nothing worse than towing a fair bit of weight and having to scream the engine to try to maintain the speed limit on hills. The diesel, it just goes and doesn't slow down, the level of stress on the highway is greatly reduced.
Diesel is great when your towing, other than that, not so great. Cost of everything on a diesel is a bunch more. One big thing that nobody talks about, about any of the diesels today have too much power, if your a person that doesn't really pay attention when your towing, you can pull 12-15,000 lbs, and before you know it your doing 80mph or more. In reality they should back the ponies down on some of these trucks. I've got a 2005 duramax, pull 14-15,000 regularly no issues. But I won't let anyone else drive it towing anything.
They make those diesels so quiet and efficient these days, it's unbelievable. I have a 2014 Ram 2500 with the Cummins motor in it. On the highway at 75 MPH I get about 17 to 18 mpg. Took a 300 mile run last year with it and actually got 20 mpg the whole way. Had a 2008 Ford F250 but didn't care for it too much. They both pulled like beasts though. Maintenance is a bit pricey but I can usually do my own for around 170.00 with oil and filters (buddy is an amzoil dealer). If I take it to the dealership its about 100.00 more.
My wife actually uses ours for a daily driver in her real estate business. We tow a large cargo trailer and a 9000 lb RV around from time to time and I have to say out here in the mountain west, I would not tow with a gasser. I like being able to "get on it" to pass slower traffic pulling these mountain highways out here.
That said, an aquaintance just bought an F350 dually gasser to haul his snowmachines and various trailers. His thought was that it wasn't really his daily driver, it was markedly cheaper to buy and cheaper maintenance. His towing needs were like Pats which is occasional.
Let us know how you roll.
Younger Brother bought a F-250 7.3 diesel last year. It pulls his 30 Travel Trailer with no problems. Very nice truck $55K.
Ford 6.7 is one of the best engines built and pulls good. It's also quiet.
I put a 50 gal fuel tank in my truck and I'm pushing 1000mile range.
No brainer....DIESEL !! If you are set on a gas engine just keep your 150. These new diesels are not Smokey, loud or stinky they are fine tuned power houses !! I get between 16 and 20 mpg empty and towing a 32 foot travel trailer to Kansas last year I was getting 12 with a tail wind and 10 with a hard Kansas wind hitting me in the windshield on the way home. All trucks are expensive to take to the dealer and get work done hell my sister just payed $1300 for a tune up at Honda . Plus when it comes to resale or trade in the F350 holds their value way over a gas truck.. There is no way would I ever spend the money on a F 350 and have a gas motor in it. I own a 2014 F 350 diesel and it is the 4th one I have owned and you can count on two fingers the times any of them have been in a shop.......Power, dependability, residual value......
Noise and black smoke are a thing of the past with diesels now days. Another added cost with new diesels is buying Def. I had a 7.3 it was a beast. After 400 k on it I traded it off. Couldn't keep seals in the high pressure pump on it. The 6.5 was ok engine but had problems. The 6.4 had even more problems. The new 6.7 is a beast. 2017 model is at 440 HP and 925 lbs of torque at 1800 RPM. The new trucks also come with either 3.31 or 3.55 gears. That is if it's a single tire rear end.
My Duramax does cost more to service since it holds 10 quarts of oil but I have never had any maintenance problems and it is very quiet and does not smoke at all. Even though it cost more to service you can go twice a far between service jobs with the Duramax so I guess it equals out. My neighbors have Ford and Dodge trucks and they can't get over the fact that I get way better mileage on my diesel than they do with their gasoline engines. I mean a lot better.
Buy a used Diesel 3/4 ton for the few times you need it and continue using an F150 for the everyday vehicle. This will make you much happier.
" my tractor and excavator which is around 12k max." " I only tow 5 times a year and that's for about 400 miles per trip. "
i wouldn't even consider a diesel. Gas is easy choice. You do need a bigger truck than your 1/2 ton of course.
My last two cars have been diesels: a 1986 Mercedes 190D and then a 1997 Mercedes 300D.
I put 220,000 on the first one and have 235,000 on the current one. In my experience, other than changing the oil as recommended, they require ZERO maintenance. They also get a lot better gas mileage.
On second thought with the limited time you need to pull your trailer.. Just rent truck, much cheaper. Do not buy a new gas 350 if you will be driving it a lot.
DEF cost about $7.50 for a jug at WalMart and if you are not hauling with it you will put about 2 1/2 gallons in every 3 months. Hauling a load/ trailer about 2 1/2 gallons every 1500 miles.........NEVER put DEF in your fuel tank !! That stuff crystalizes and will ruin the fuel system. Pretty easy...Green cap is diesel....blue cap DEF. What issues with the Powerstroke ? 80,000 miles and never been back to Ford for any reason. This motor is as good as any I have owned including the highly regarded 7.3 (had 2 of them) ....it will out perform the 7.3 in every way !
I bought a 2004 Dodge 3/4 ton diesel for the times when I need to pull my skid steer or haul a couple of horses. I have a car for a driver, though we have taken the truck on a few road trips. When I was looking, I drove an '04 3/4 ton with the Hemi, and this '04 with the diesel. Hands down the diesel wins for the towing power.
Pat...the solution is obvious and missed by all who posted.
Just get another excavator (used) and keep it at the property. Then you don't need the hassle of towing back and forth. Good used farm equipment is much cheaper and easier to maintain.
Just a thought....unless you really really want an excuse to get a new truck. ;o)
My 2005 F-250 is rusting bad and started when the truck was only 7-8 years old. Most of the similar year F250 and 350's I see here in Michigan are the same... Glad to see Ford going to aluminum bodies. Mine is gas... and is a dog going up hills on the highway... but knock on wood I haven't had and problems with it yet but I only have 113,000 on it.
You've already decided you want a diesel rig. So your choice is made.
Just make sure you get one of those "Johnny Overload " billfolds...(One of those with a chain to hook up to a belt loop on your blue jeans.) .... ;)
Plus - don't discount the obvious...we all just want an excuse for buying a big truck - correct? .........................................................................................
Just go get one.
I'd get a gun-metal grey one.
I like those leather seats as well. Though the King's have the REAL kind.
Had a 14 f150 and traded for a 17 F 250(diesel) in December. Absolutely love it. I spend a lot of time off the road on my farm and it still out performs the 150 on gas mpg. Over all I average about 16 1/2 mpg. Drives like a Cadillac
What smell? What noise? Hard start ???? Ford says don't even plug it in unless it is below -o- Mine starts up at -10 like a summer day and I never have plugged this 6.7 in Fueling process ???? what is different ? Put in card ..select diesel...put end of hose in tank and pull back . Man some of you guys sound like you are driving diesels from the 60's and 70's . These new diesels are high tech motors. People say they cost more in the shop ??? Do they work on your car for cheap or what ? $85.00 an hour is $85.00 an hour car or truck.
I have an 08 dodge 2500 with the Cummins 6.7. When I was towing a 28 foot gooseneck loaded with equipment it was an awesome truck. I don't tow as much these days and it causes problems with the emission components. Just make sure you're going to haul a load on a regular basis if you go Diesel. Definitly do your research before you pull the trigger!
250 is plenty for your needs pat. I can haul my 7130 JD and a 15' mower no problem with my 250
One idea for transporting the equipment. How about moving? Your home state is too blue for me to survive there. :) :)
Hey Pat,
Whatever rig you decide on, be sure to lift it and put some outrageously large tires on it. Camo paint is always a nice touch. As is a set of those fake ball sacks hangin' off the hitch. Add a few gun and hunting related stickers to it, and you'll have a rig that's guaranteed to pi$$ most liberals off.
;-)
Matt
Simple.... get the Big Dog Diesel..... AND a 38 foot 5th wheel toyhauler with a new side by side utv to put in it..... problem solved. Justified it by having to tow yet more stuff.... whenever ya feel like it.... at least one more time a year.... =D
Geez.... some of you guys have far too much self control......
Matt, don't forget you got to put those ridiculously large stacks in the bed or at the very least the 5" output underneath. ATuner adjusted to blow black smoke when you "get on it" is always a plus if your goal is to truly drive those more of the lean-left culture to yellow-eyed barking madness.
I have an 04 Dodge 2500 with 267k miles on it. Diesels have their quirks, but I agree with jdee, the newer diesels are a completely different animal than those of 15 years ago.
Jim,
Ah yes, I forgot about the tractor trailer stacks.
And I can relate to the tuner, too. I had my 7.3L diesel chipped. When I cranked it up, it would smoke out several blocks of city-slickers. ;-)
Matt
Mouse has got the right idea, and the cheapest
Especially if you add the homongus tires, good deal, guaranteed to get ya stuck.
Personally I keep them just the way the come from the factory. I get best resale out of them that way.
Yep, Diesel it is, But buy a GMC!
Scar.
DIESEL FOR SURE!
I have a 2012 F-350 with the 6.7 and loving it. It will do everything you need and more. The comments about noise are just MUTE BLABBER. All the Fords since about 2010 have been super quiet. My F-350 can be idling in my driveway and I'll be talking to a neighbor when they say "Is that thing running? It's way too quiet for a diesel". I haul a lot at times. Like the photo posted. 4 nice big bull elk, yes 16 quarters, horns and a 28' camper loaded with 4 people's clothes, gear etc. with zero issues for several hundred miles. GO DIESEL PAT, you'll kick yourself if you don't!
JDEE X 3
I have owned a diesel f250 , dodge Cummings diesel and Ford F-250 v10. I own a farm haul horses , cattle equipment. I cannot name a better motor than the v10 that I have ever owned. I haven't replaced the f250 with the v 10 because I cannot imagine getting a better motor. 200k miles and I have never touched the motor except to change the spark plugs. I have owned a ton of vehicles so I am no rookie with autos. There was a issue with the spark plugs seizing to the aluminum heads but mine did not. I also cannot imagine that you have hills anywhere near what we have out here in the PNW. You cannot go over the pass fully loaded pulling a heavy trailer as fast as you can with a diesel but it will do it and the temp guage does not move . Best breathing vehicle I have owned as well. The only down side is it get 11 mpg empty or fully loaded. The paints peeling , the wind shield is cracked the radio won't play cd's any more but she still tows and runs like the day I bought it and will until it won't anymore.
Dang you guys!
After over twenty years driving the same car, this thread got me to consider an upgrade, finally!
So I started looking around and stumbled across a 2015 MBZ C-300 4MATIC, brand new at the local MBZ dealership.
Apparently the dealer had three of these come in at the end of the 2015 model year. They've sold two and have one left. They're asking $34,979, which includes a ton of options, vs a $42,950 original sticker price, which did not include those options.
I drove it and it's exactly what I love in a car. The acceleration, feel, and handling are awesome. In addition, the ride can be adjusted to several distinct settings and it even 'learns' how you drive and so can warn you if you get out of character due to drowsiness, alcohol, etc. In addition, it's got more amazing technological bells and whistles on it than I ever could have imagined existed.
I'm waiting for them to send me the numbers on my trade in and a final net price offer, but unless they surprise me on the bad side, I'll pull the trigger.
Think for one moment. Why are construction vehicles from dozer's to pick-ups always diesels? We do not own a gas powered engine for sheer torque and power. Btw preventative maintenance is the name of the game. Diesel engines require ALL fluid changes regularly and filters most importantly. Water is the great destroyer of all things but is the absolute nemesis of diesels. Someone mentioned Allison Transmissions and I will tell you firsthand from years ago till this day they are bullet proof.
The Rock
Ricky I agree on diesel . However I have yet to hear of a ford dealer with a decent diesel mechanic yet same when I owned the dodge. The nearest independent diesel shop from me is 60 miles away. Too far for me.
Kyle, step up a notch and get the s63 Amy. 600 hp , my wife loves hers.
My daily driver. I have two older duramaxes at my work(09 '12) this truck is every bit as powerful as them.
Pat, just remember one you get the truck to go on Ebay, and get "hybrid" lettering on for the back of it, so you can drive around Connecticut and New York. We did that to a friend's hemi Durango, and have gotten a thousand laughs out of it.
You sound like my business partner. Toyed himself out to the point he has to upgrade his truck in order to have use of the toy's. Diesel's pull better. Mechanics cost the same to work on both but, parts do NOT. Oil is more expensive, diesel is harder to find, They are not off road vehicles no mater the tires you have on them. Tires are a lot more expensive. Everything about them is more expensive. But, gas motors to tow the things you have are inferior. Personally, I'd buy a used diesel and keep the truck you have. The boy would drive the car. God Bless
freeglee,
How many times must this be said?
You are a woefully uninformed azzhole.
Your lack of knowledge of the environmental impact of fossil fuels and your much beloved 'not-environmentally' friendly 'green fuels' is astonishing.
Yet what else would we expect?
freeglee,
Yeah. You just hang in there with your financially unsupportable, bird killing and woefully environmentally UNFRIENDLY 'green' fuels,' agenda which are in no way environmentally friendly.
Because when you are a clueless and uneducated idiot, that's what you do!
The dealer's money guy e-mailed me an hour ago, challenging how I came up with the numbers I did on my counter offer.
I responded in detail.
I guess I must have smoked him unlike nothing he'd ever seen before, because he soon called me back and accepted my offer.
Life is good!
Pat, just get a diesel. If for no other reason that it will piss off that liberal scourge you are surrounded by. It would be worth the extra 5 grand and 40.00 a month payments. Diesel gets better mileage. It costs less to refine. Burns cleaner. You can be greener than the dead-from-the-neck-up leftist living next to you and they will still have their heads screwed firmly up their asses thinking you could pull that excavator with a prius. It'll be fun, you'll see!
Whitey x2,
I know someone who hauled an excavator with a f350 & v10 regularly for his business, he put over 200,000 on it and like whitey said we have hills here in the NW.
For the type of miles you're talking about each year, I'd go with gas. You'll be shocked at how poorly the mileage is when towing, but you't probably be towing so few miles, that it isn't worth the diesel expense. If you want a ton of power that you don't need 95% of the time get the diesel; they're super fun to drive. We have about 12, F-350's (mostly dually's) some of which are diesel and some are gas. Due to the high repair/maintenance costs we're slowly switching our fleet back to gas. These trucks tow on a daily basis, but the miles per year isn't all that much so it doesn't make any sense for us to pay the premium. If you tow a lot of miles/year with heavy loads, diesel is a no brainer. Equipment transport costs are not cheap. Most importantly, be safe.
I don't think looking into transports is a bad idea. For anything that we don't tow around on a regular basis/ don't have the equipment for and can't handle, we just hire a transport. In Utah we're paying right around $90/hr for rigs that can pull 30,000-40,000 lbs and I'd bet you'd be considerably less for only 12k lbs, but I don't really know because we just haul that stuff ourselves, but the concept remains valid that it might be cheaper to transport instead of get heavier duty trucks. In our case that would mean getting semis and we don't want to do that.
I have one of the older f350s with a built 7.3 diesel that is simply unbelieveable. From what I understand from my grandson who is a professional diesel mechanic and knows Fords inside out the new model F350 diesel is really great. I went from Oregon to North DAkota this year pulling a 9500 lb Jayco and could pull any mountain at 75 with ease. Only thing that slowed me down was curves. LOL. Anyway the new diesel would definitely be my choice.
God bless, Steve
I'll hit 400,000 on my daily driver F350 diesel in a few months. I changed factory injectors at just over 370,000 miles. Maint costs amount to fuel and tires, maybe an oil change every 10k or so.
Couldn't give me a gasser .
Wapiti, I hear you with the 7.3's, we still have 2 and they both have over 350k and they are not going anywhere till they're dragged from our shop. I think our remaining 2 are 99' vintage. We've scrapped probably 4-2008 vintage diesels because the repair cost was too high. We've had about 3 or so of the 6.7L diesels which have fantastic power, however we have yet to make a one that makes it to 70,000 miles before major transmission/engine work has been required and we traded them in. Not to mention the injectors and they're not cheap. If I didn't care about money, hands down, I'd get the diesel, but I don't think they cost less money, unless you're hauling a lot and a lot of miles. For the couple thousand miles you're talking about, buy the gas
After reading this thread I can see who drives the Prius....
I debated this same thing years ago, decided on the Diesel after my wife said " buy it, if you don't like it, sell it and get the other one!" I did and have not regretted once getting the diesel! More power when you need it and it will outlast most gas engines!
Soooooo.... what's in the driveway Pat?
Soooooo.... what's in the driveway Pat?"
Probably a Prius
A Prius is just a coal powered battery car.
Cool.
Is it gonna get the full BOWSITE.COM wrap ala a BONE COLLECTOR or some such? Maybe write it off...... =D "Turn dat base up...."
Just a added question to this thread.
Where does one rent a pickup truck with a hitch so you can tow a trailer? Enterprise truck rental is the only thing I found and its expensive. All the regular rental places don't allow towing and don't have hitches.
ben h... after reading about all the bad luck your company is having with the diesel pickups I would say #1 the guys driving them don't own them!!! just call the boss man and tell him" trucks broke down" believe me if you change your fluids and filters regularly and drive them right the last a very long time. I have owned many Peterbilt semi trucks and 5 diesel F350's I am hear to tell you hired drivers never drive trucks like the guy that owns them!!!
jdee is correct. It doesn't matter what it is, if employees don't own their ride, they drive it like they stole it.
Pat, If you can get away from any diesel with the new DEF... DPF ect. I am on my second diesel truck (Cummins) and love them. They were pretty good with emissions in place but are excellent without any of that EPA garbage attached (not that mine are missing any of that stuff). Better milage, cooler EGT and are towing monsters.
It's a little more than that, it's called a def delete. They also remove the restrictve pollution control components,. To do it correctly you need to have someone do it that is really familiar with it. The caveat is....its not legal
Yes "rolling coal" is not the goal. Getting your high dollar engine to work the way it should, last 350-500k miles and get 20% better fuel economy. You can add "chips" or tuners but you don't want any black smoke as that is horse power/wasted fuel going out the pipe. Legal... nope. Would I do it to my truck? No chance ;-)
some of the mechanics I know tell me that the "chips" are responsible for most of the problems they see with short lived diesel engines today. The trucks are not engineered for them from the factory and you need to do more than just put a chip on a truck to make it work well without being real hard on them in the process.
Pat, We do have most varieties of F250 in our fleet. V8 and V10 gassers and the 6.7 power stroke diesels and the 6.7 power stoke is the best truck hands down in my opinion. And yes. Tunes or chips can be hard on trucks in regards to advanced timing and dueling rates. Truck must be done properly to last. Good luck.
After spending $6,500.00 on a new DPF and turbocharger, then, 18 months later ANOTHER $3,000.00 turbocharger, I've been looking into doing a delete on my dodge. It's not cheap, and I've been told to use a reputable company that has good tuner technology. They also make them so you can reinstall the original emission components for emission testing and inspections. Once again, if you're going to do a delete...do your research. I don't want smoke or race power, I just want my truck to run normally. That's a thing of the past with all this emission BS!
jdee, you're preaching to the choir there. I swear some of our guys could break a crow bar in a sand box! That being said, the guys who drive the trucks, do a pretty good job, but there's always room for improvement. We just had a really bad run with the diesels, most of which were the 6.0 and the 6.7. I recognize if you're pulling a lot of weight and a lot of miles, diesel is where it's at. We have track hoes, skid loaders, forklifts, etc that are all diesels and we're well aware of maintenance and we do a better job than the MFG suggests and we still had problems. We used to have our own semi trucks to do transports, and thank god we sold them and just hire someone else to do it. Some of our semis had over 700k miles on them too, so we know how to maintain equipment. In our situation, we don't haul over 10k all that much and we don't do that many miles, so we just burn the gas and that's been working better for us. Two of the $65,000 6.7L diesels were actually the boss's trucks, one had a wiring problem that nobody could figure out, so Ford replaced 100% of the wires and it still didn't fix it, so we traded it in. The trade in went, maybe 2 years before the tranny was going, so we traded that one in too. I don't even think the 6.7L trucks even pulled a trailer, if they did it was very minimal. On the 6.7L, none of our problems were related to the engine itself, but other components. Meanwhile we have 2-99' Fords with the 7.3 that are going great with 350k miles (except they look like crap).
70, Check your CCV vent breather and make sure it is not dripping sticky oil into your intake and hitting your turbo messing it up. Also you can delete the CCV tube and route it to the ground to protect your high dollar turbo. Also set that Cummins free from that DPF, EGR, and Cat. Your tuck will never be happier. Those systems just pump the garbage/soot back through your engine and mess it up robbing it of its lifespan and killing your investment in a $60k truck. Thats how all the trucks were set up and ran so well pre 2007 1/2. Good luck.
I do have a question for you diesel gurus.... Back in the day, diesel exhausts run vertical were either angled back, had a flapper or the farmer put a coffee can over it to keep the water out.
These guys running around with 6"-8" pipes sticking straight up in the bed of their trucks.... What keeps them from filling with water??? Seriously.... We had a toad strangler come through the other day that would have easily filled pipes like that with water.... Just curious.
You'll find that it is very satisfying to blow the doors of the hippies in their Pious's in a big diesel truck :)
I never understood why some men wear skirts.
Of course, everyone knows how well you can pull a four horse trailer with a Prius. NOT!
Freediot, you could significantly reduce your carbon footprint by jumping off a tall building. You, sir, are the ultimate waste of natural resources. And be sure to take the stairs up, we wouldn't want to waste electricity.
You'll miss it for about ten minutes.
Good choice! You will not be disappointed. I did the same thing a year ago.
Once you get used to the big truck you don't want to go back to the little ones.....you won't miss that f150 at all. I will say when I was driving my F250 Crewcab home from the dealer I was freaking out for a few miles thinking maybe I was nuts getting a truck that big.....mine was made to order. It took 4 months to get it.
