Is it greed that prompts processing plants to import thousands of illegal immigrants for a labor force?
Worth repeating, and the end of conversation, IMO.
Matt
Educate yourself, work hard, make the right decisions, meet the right people, and become a CEO....or stop whining about those who do.
Or, you could also become a professional golfer and make millions hitting a little ball into a hole. Whoops...I suppose that's greedy, too, eh?
Matt
As a result of the above, a lot of the younger generation is job hopping as there is very little reason (pay or benefits) for an employee to stay with one company. This phenomenon dilutes job knowledge and expertise. As the "dumbing down" of the American workforce continues, foreign manufacturing looks more attractive and the cycle continues.
"It's called free enterprise...." With our regulatory conditions, more akin to state-run capitalism... However, it is still the most scalable system available.
"Is it greed that prompts processing plants to import thousands of illegal immigrants for a labor force?" - As a small businessman involved in construction, unequivocally, illegals are taking jobs left vacant by American sluggards.
And exactly whose fault is that?
No one but themselves is to blame for that.
Most CEO's at publicly traded companies get their gigs by having the right connections, few of them are more talented than the guy who worked his way through school to get what learnin' he did. I've yet to see a CEO crawl a boiler or spend countless hours on a drilling rig like the engineer does.
Just because you 'apply' yourself doesn't mean you get the reward. Office politcs do exist...
The compensating differential is skewed. Free enterprise has nothing to do with it. Free enterprise just means private ownership can have the benefit instead of gov't. When you choose to work for a company, you choose voluntary socialism, to a degree - your employment is at the pleasure of a [fill in the blank] and you only get what they want to give you. Not much free enterprise there...
I'm taking Matt's advice now, and I'm heading over to the driving range. I'm going to make millions as a professional golfer. Lot's of practice, and hard work, and I'll probably win the Masters next year.
Just because one is good at their job doesn't mean they have the skills or know-how to run the business, from a business/service/competition standpoint. I've hired more than one contractor and never used them again, not because they didn't do good work, but because working with them - from a business standpoint - was a pain in the neck.
"When you choose to work for a company, you choose voluntary socialism, to a degree - your employment is at the pleasure of a [fill in the blank] and you only get what they want to give you. Not much free enterprise there..."
Nonsense. You get what is agreed upon by both sides as a condition of employment. If you decide beforehand that that doesn't suit you, no one is forcing you to accept the job. If you decide afterwards that you no longer like the conditions of employment, no one is forcing you to keep the job. You have all the power to go and find a new job that suits your needs better. That is free enterprise.
And don't kid yourself, the grand pooh-bahs in the socialist countries are making thousands more than the peasants. Fidel Castro died a billionaire, for example.
Got to have that 2500 sq. ft. house with a swimming pool and the 2000 a month house payment.
Got to have that 2016 Ford Belchfire Pickup with the 600 a month payment.
Got to have that toy hauler that you had to buy the Belchfire to pull with a 300 payment.
Got have the 3 ATV's to go in the toy hauler with 300 a month payment.
Don't forget the new bow every year that you put on the credit card and then make minimum payments and will never pay off.
This is just the man of the house. I won't go into the woman of the house spends.
That is why the middle class doesn't have a pot to P in and why they don't save for retirement.
It is not because some CEO makes more money than they do.
Try listening to Dave Ramsey on the radio. Both my wife and I were following his principles before we ever heard of him. I am real lucky to have a wife that is on the same page finance wise as I am. I am no expert on things, but am 72, so I have seen some of the above and heard how rough times are.
Terry
The Bible teaches us there are 7 deadly sins: Pride, greed, lust, envy, wrath, sloth, and gluttony.
I don't see any distinction from your envy and the CEO's greed.
Matt
And yeah, CEOs don't spend a lot of time on the rig floor, etc for a number of reasons. One, because they have bigger fish to fry like securing financing for the company or looking for the next acquisition and they don't need to be on site to make sure tubing is being torqued to the proper specification. Secondly, there's a good chance they were doing that 20 years ago when they broke into the industry as an engineer, etc.
Additionally, whether we like it or not...this is the real world and politics will ALWAYS exist. The ones that are successful are the ones that will understand that. And on the whether you like it or not train, we're all accountable to somebody. I may work for a large company and have lots of bosses and what you might view as minimal freedom. I view it as opportunity and security. And even if you're in business for yourself and free from the chains of corporate America, you still better be pleasing someone or else there's a good chance you won't be working for yourself for long.
Yes, a free market economy allows you to float around, it allows you to have a choice. Yes, you enter into a condition of employment THINKING you know what you're getting into until you are in that culture. While there, you only get what they want you to get. That's the "socialism" of sorts I referred to. Try and keep up.
Sorry, but a CEO placed there because of the right connections does not warrant a salary 10 times the guy who is at a higher risk and endangerment and just as educated but with a different skill set. Compensating differential is skewed and I think this is what the OP is getting at. Try and keep up...
Security in large companies - not. When they want to cut you loose, they will. Doesn't matter if your efforts cut cost or improved a process...
CEO's salaries are given based on earnings that the hired grunt puts into the tiller.
Self employment and doing a good job for someone, that's just meant to be understood. That's were a free market truly exists.
What you're advocating is socialism. Let's ignore what the market dictates with regards to compensation and let's equalize pay across the corporate structure.
I swear some people on here don't even listen to themselves when they talk.
Edit: Guess I should just go with the flow and praise the CEO and hope for scraps from his table. If you don't like your situation, change it, if you can. Think I said that.
Take care.
And what has happened between then and now? More government regulation of free markets, more government spending, more handouts. It is THESE factors that have made matters worse for the average working guy.
"Guess I should just go with the flow and praise the CEO and hope for scraps from his table. "
Or maybe put yourself out there and start your own company, be the CEO and pay whoever whatever you want.
Fixed it for you.
I have worked in engineering and engineering management roles for a major oil company for the last 15 years. I picked up an MBA along the way because I had aspirations of reaching the C-suite (CEO, COO, CFO, etc) one day. I quickly realized I don't have the desire and drive to compete for those positions in a major company and much prefer my work life balance. I also don't want to take the risk of doing it on my own. I still pull in over $350K a year in salary and stock, plus they put 10% of my salary into a 401k (I don't have to pay a dime into it to get that). Plus I will retire with a pension that'll be worth a pretty penny. In other words, I'm VERY happy with what my company decided to give me. Most people that I know in the company feel exactly the same way.
I don't pull in the CEO salary even though I literally have the same exact degrees as he does (and I would argue from better schools). I don't care. I hunt a lot and work to live instead of the opposite.
That said, a big driver with respect to what got me where I am today is greed. I'm not afraid to admit it. I like things. I like doing things. The things I like and the things I like to do are fairly expensive. But that's why I chose to work and sacrifice the way I did and feel I'm now reaping the rewards. Economically speaking, I think there are a lot of other people that have benefitted from my greed -- like the shareholders in my company, the fellas at Kuiu and Sitka, and the owner of my local bowshop for example.
I also know what it takes to get more and I don't feel like paying that price.
I don't know how this is drinking the kool aid, but based on how things have worked out I'll happily take another glass.
Thank you, HA.
Those of us you have stuck our neck out to create economy, instead of sucking off the tit of it, knows exactly what you mean.
My hat is tipped to you, Sir.
Matt
Capitalism has it's faults and issues. Not a perfect system by any means...... NONE are. The very worst however, would be the destruction and ruin caused by laws and regulations to try to ensure "economic equality" or "economic justice"..... try to regulate the outcomes of individual efforts, skills, natural talents. It's been a disaster of unintended consequences self-forgiven because they "meant well"....
Mankind is a strange animal...... the majority will live down to their expectations...... the main thing preventing that is the incentive to keep as your own what you create and earn with your efforts. But there is no shortage of those who feel they want a share of what you have.
I would say what many have said above. The problem isn't overpay...... the problem is paying someone for nothing else but simply existing. Help when you are down is one thing. Making no effort, or worse yet, an attitude of being ENTITLED to other peoples property for simply existing.... that is the real problem.
The capitalism-haters here would do well to listen and watch.
Thank You! Bless your heart - I know the southern boy you claim to be understands the meaning of that...
Nothing wrong with a public owned company CEO being paid big money - if they earn it like everyone else has to.
Absolutely nothing wrong with a business owner to pay themselves well and their employees for what they provide - just don't forget why you do pay yourself well.
A company or business owner never owns the employee, they only rent that human capital from them in the form of a paycheck. When companines are a week behind in payroll (as some are), the company is always indebted to the employee, not the other way around. A lot of companies forget that. When the employee is compensated for their time, that employee is no longer obligated to the company and vice versa. Salaried employees who give a little extra is because they care and know it will balance out in the end (leave early one afternoon without taking PTO).
Arguably, you provide more value to our society than any of us. My Mother taught junior high kids english/grammar for most of her career, so I know the selfless sacrifices you've made, financially and otherwise.
Thank you, Sir.
Matt
Secondly, a lot of people are hung up on CEOs and salary. Real WEALTH is created through equity, not salary. The richest people in the world did not get that way because their salary is high. They got that way because they owned a stake in something that became valuable. People hang up on salary all the time but very few understand how people generally get rich.
The CEO of my company names somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 mln a year if I had to guess. You know how many "small" mom and pop companies are out there in my industry with a valuation in the hundreds of millions and with people holding a significant equity stake? Probably hundreds if not thousands. These people are likely worth WAY more than the CEO of Exxon or Shell or (fill in blank).
Our Economy is the fairest system out there, at least when it comes to pay. We can argue all day that a teacher should earn more than they do, or a lawyer should earn less. BUT the Economic Rules are well known, published and easy to understand. If you like your summers off, Teaching might well be a very good profession for you to consider but you'll never get rich at it. If you want to avoid higher education, then the medical field is probably not for you (at lease not as a Provider).
If you want to maximize your yearly income, why in the world would you settle for a minimum wage job, do it with a bad attitude, have poor attendance and not continue to learn and be able to contribute at a higher and higher level? There is a monumental difference between WANTING to make more money, and being worth more money.
The biggest determining factor in what you will be paid is what others are getting paid to do a similar job. If you're a Plumber and every other Plumber in town will do a certain job for $100, guess what you're likely to be able to charge for it? Being able to do what nobody else can do allows you the freedom to charge whatever the market will pay. The best Cosmetic Surgeons make lots of money because they can do what they do better than most of the rest, AND their customers have the means to pay it.
A lot of interesting comments always crop up in these sort of threads. The number of people who think that they can do the job that their CEO is doing always amuses me. Heck if you're worth $10 million dollars a year why the heck did you accept that $25,000 job?
Having worked in the employment side of the business world for my whole career, I can promise you one thing, anyone who is earning huge dollars has done something in their career to make SOMEONE (or a board of directors) think they were worth that much. When you see a CEO flame out and screw things up, look at their past positions, it's almost certain that they once made a company or some investors A LOT of money. Sure, mistakes happen, in business, in sports, even in the hunting world. Sometimes people are hired or promoted based on potential that they never realize. But in general the people who earn the really big bucks, have done a lot to be worth it. And yes, if they are risking their own funds, they should be handsomely rewarded if their company or their product hits it big.
True statement - in general
You really need to dial that envy back a tad and then perhaps the sheer nonsense of this example might, might occur to you.
Aside from being a gross oversimplification it highlights how much you seem to miss (or ignore in favor of the strawman du jour); perhaps the first diner had bought the land the cattle grazed on and paid all the upkeep and taxes required, bought the meat processing plant and paid all associated costs, paid for the transportation of the processed meat to various markets; perhaps he'd invested while the other 4 had merely sidled up after the fact, zero skin in the game and expected equal shares of the bounty?
That's called communism; why don't you research all the resounding successes of that economic model throughout history and share them with us?
Ace's Link
Loved this line: "We are raising whole generations who regard facts as more or less optional."
ROTFLMAO! HAHAHAHAHAH! too good..... one who's very existence is BASED on misinformed..... just too rich..... irony that can't be cut with a torch......
Other than that, it is pretty much an accurate discussion of how things work in America.
