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The NCAA and an ideological dilemma
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Contributors to this thread:
elk yinzer 01-Sep-17
Crusader dad 01-Sep-17
Mike in CT 01-Sep-17
Franzen 01-Sep-17
kentuckbowhnter 01-Sep-17
LINK 01-Sep-17
Bowfreak 01-Sep-17
Glunt@work 01-Sep-17
bad karma 01-Sep-17
HA/KS 01-Sep-17
Brotsky 01-Sep-17
LINK 01-Sep-17
Franzen 01-Sep-17
bad karma 01-Sep-17
Owl 01-Sep-17
Bowfreak 01-Sep-17
TD 01-Sep-17
Anony Mouse 01-Sep-17
TD 02-Sep-17
Sage Buffalo 02-Sep-17
MK111 03-Sep-17
BIG BEAR 03-Sep-17
Rupe 03-Sep-17
sleepyhunter 03-Sep-17
BIG BEAR 03-Sep-17
From: elk yinzer
01-Sep-17
On the eve of another college football season I will pose something I've been pondering for awhile.

This season my alma mater has a RB/QB tandem whose combined starpower are going to rake in tens of millions for the athletic department.

In exchange, these young adults receive a scholarship valued at what, $50k?

Those are the facts, not debatable. That is the current model. So the quandry is, how does a principled conservative thinker view this situation?

Is conservatism opposition to change? Should the NFL/NCAA collusion model survive the next few decades?

Or does conservatism value free enterprise and compensate these young men a fair market value for their services?

Which is it?

From: Crusader dad
01-Sep-17
I wouldn't be opposed to our college players receiving a small salary but it becomes a slippery slope once you start. They will want more more more. Most of our college players will never see the NFL. They play to get an education and for the love of the game.

If the NCAA chose to compensate these kids it should be a cap of say $20k per year for starters and $10k for backups. I think it would be foolish to pay these kids anything that would amount to a large sum of money. All teammates should be paid equally if at all.

From: Mike in CT
01-Sep-17
"This season my alma mater has a RB/QB tandem whose combined starpower are going to rake in tens of millions for the athletic department."

True, as is the reality that the venue to showcase these skills can translate into tens of millions for these star athletes, of which the university may receive nothing, absent any form of donation to the scholarship fund.

"In exchange, these young adults receive a scholarship valued at what, $50k?"

See above; the median Division 1 College football scholarship is actually $36K per year so a full 4-year commitment would be worth $144K. Where is the concern for the non-scholarship pre-med major who may unlock new treatment modalities that can extend not only life, but quality of life? You do realize those who fall into this camp often arrive at day 1 of their career with, on average, $180K or more of student loan debt? As some of these individuals practice medicine at schools with an affiliated hospital there is certainly huge upside financially for those schools.

"Those are the facts, not debatable."

Actually, what you posted wasn't all of the facts, just a section removed to create the appearance of a disproportionate benefits system. So, in that vein those facts were most certainly debatable.

"That is the current model. So the quandry is, how does a principled conservative thinker view this situation?"

Interesting phrasing which leads me to question your ideological bent and whether or not that precludes a full appreciation of a free-market, capitalistic society. I'm sorry to say it also smacks of a "gotcha" scenario but I'm willing to allow for some clarification on your part.

"Is conservatism opposition to change? Should the NFL/NCAA collusion model survive the next few decades?"

Again, an interesting choice of phrasing, reeking of more of the "gotcha" mentality of questioning. It would be equally true if the word "liberalism" were inserted; it presupposes an outcome that implies a prejudiced viewpoint at the onset.

"Or does conservatism value free enterprise and compensate these young men a fair market value for their services?"

You have a disconnect in that sentence; the first half is unquestionably true but you assume in the latter that fair market compensation is absent; as outlined above a case can be made that is simply not true.

"Which is it?"

Which are you?

From: Franzen
01-Sep-17
These players have every right to skip college and wait til the NFL would accept them... see how that works out for them. Anyone taking full advantage of a "free to them" college education is not getting a raw deal in my opinioin, regardless of what I feel about the system in general. The program is more than two star players, and there is a lot more that goes into that financial gain than just player performance on the field.

People who want to directly send money to a school or indirectly send it there via merchandise purchase or viewership create the perceived issue. If the players think they are being slighted, that is their right, but the schools are not obligated to do anything about it. I think Mike eluded to this above, but the schools also provide a platform for students to succeed in the future, both in athletics and beyond. I don't like the part money plays in the NCAA realm, and I wish motives were as pure as they may have been once, but it isn't going to revert back and it's also not for me to decide.

01-Sep-17
in our capitalist society they can go play pro ball any time they want and not take the scholarship value of 50k. go play in canada etc. till you are eligible to play in NFL.

From: LINK
01-Sep-17
I would be for the colleges being allowed to sweeten their scholarship up to 10000$ cash. Playing college sports is a full time job and leaves no room for a job. Some money to spend on a vehicle, gas, clothes, food off campus once in awhile could be a good thing.

From: Bowfreak
01-Sep-17
Wa Wa Wa....you are getting a free education or free boarding until you are ready to play in the NFL. How many guys would complain if someone paid all of their expenses for 2-4 years and then said....now you can go make millions.

From: Glunt@work
01-Sep-17
Free tuition is great deal for most players. The 2% that go pro may be "underpaid" in college compared to the revenue they help generate, but as soon as they sign thats all recouped and then some. For the other 98%, free tuition seems like pretty fair compensation. Football was their college job and they were compensated a lot more than the guy delivering pizzas trying to get an engineering degree on student loans.

From: bad karma
01-Sep-17
At any Ivy league school, or say, Stanford, the value of the education is over $100k/year, and it's not taxed. This isn't the ripoff some claim it to be.

From: HA/KS
01-Sep-17
100% opposed to paying college athletes cash.

From: Brotsky
01-Sep-17
If any of you have ever played under NCAA rules or had family that has played under NCAA rules you would sing a different song. The rules are archaic and quite frankly a joke. The schools are raking in big money on football and basketball on the backs of their student athletes. In exchange these athletes get a scholarship, just like the one the math kid gets, or the cheerleader gets, or the any other student gets that doesn't provide a return to the university. The football kid gets to work his arse off at practice for long hours, then meet the same scholarly requirements as everyone else. He can't have a side job to make any spending money because that's against the rules. Can't get a free pizza, might be against the rules. It goes on and on. Then when the kid gets hurt, oops no more scholarship. Now you are on your own, and you can pay those medical bills too since we don't cover everything. I could go on but I'm not looking to change any minds here.

From: LINK
01-Sep-17
Good point glunt. When you look at it that way there's no way they could make 40k working at McDonalds. The guy that has an academic full ride still has enough time to work and afford a car payment and in most cases the university gets nothing in return. I understand their payoff is coming but most 19-20 year olds are living in the here and now.

From: Franzen
01-Sep-17
Brotsky, all those things may be true, but they all have one thing in common: the athlete has the choice whether to play or not. Do the math kids and cheerleaders get a lot of free pizzas at school? I don't think I ever got a single one. If the athletes would like to have the ability to work a side job, all they have to do is give up sports. Then they can have all the side jobs they want and use the money to pay their tuition. All about personal choices; should it be different for some because it really hits home with one individual or another? I'd guess that for most the decision to keep playing sports with a free ride over becoming a pizza boy takes about a nanosecond.

A university may or may not get a big return from an academic full ride student. My guess is those students sometimes become heavy donors in the future, but I'm sure it doesn't always happen. I'm not sure the claims that schools get no return from said students can be substantiated, but if anyone has some numbers to put up feel free.

From: bad karma
01-Sep-17
I was a math kid who got a scholarship. It was $1750 paid over 2 years.

And in law school, I got an academic scholarship, $2k/year. The other $70k I paid for. I was 1/3 of the scholarships given to white males that year.

Tell me again how the math kids have it so good compared to the athletes.

From: Owl
01-Sep-17
Playing NCAA athletics is a free exchange of capital. As others have pointed out, the athletes have choices and choose the scholarships for a reason.

From: Bowfreak
01-Sep-17
How do you pay the women's rowing team? Title 9 says we have to have as many female athletes as male. Dont you think it is safe to say that after litigation, pay would need to be equal too? How do you pay the future NFL first round draft pick and also pay the 3rd string gunner on special teams that will be an accountant after college?

I think these power 5 universities can make a case that their blue chippers should pay them. Their face and name is plastered all over national tv, social media and every other outlet.

It is an extremely flawed system but it at least resembles amature sports now.

From: TD
01-Sep-17
First off, there are more than 2 kids on that team. The great majority I would hope consider themselves very lucky to have the free ride, not to mention the perks of getting the best food, living arrangements, etc. And the showcase given those two could turn into millions for them down the road. Without the programs, especially the upper echelon programs, giving them the chance to show the pros what they can do...... good luck.

The thing also..... if you think it's a mess right now with schools and alumni slipping money and gifts under the table.... wait until they are paid, finding ways to do more..... and the biggest schools buying the best of the players. As it is now the mid sized and small schools are disadvantaged enough when it comes to attracting talent. Having to pay players puts yet more stress on the limited budget these schools have to deal with. The "Haves" will become more powerful.... the "Have nots" will slip down even farther.

From: Anony Mouse
01-Sep-17
TD...and they have better medical care than provided by Obamacare ;o)

From: TD
02-Sep-17
Depends on the injury..... =D

The football programs in some major schools bring in obscene amounts of money, that's true (Mid majors not so much).... but in most schools the football programs fund the entire athletic programs (and scholarships) for all the other sports that operate at a great loss. And lets not forget the federally mandated woman's programs Title X or what ever they call it. For every male athletic scholarship there must be a female scholarship. I know some fairly mundane young lady golfers whose parents were on the ball and got their girls onto a golf team with a full ride.....

From: Sage Buffalo
02-Sep-17
100% against it.

You would have to pay all players a salary range and not just those at good schools. The numbers wouldn't work and it would also become very similar to the NFL.

Also, instead of being students they would be viewed like NFL players which would change the CFB game. A union definitely would be formed - imagine CFB players going on strike?

You would also have to create a fair system for all teams as the current system isn't.

You would see ticket prices double and triple and students would lose their "free" seats.

CFB has it's issues but paying them would make it worse.

From: MK111
03-Sep-17
If they seriously want to be paid go find a job and quite thinking you are more important than you really are.

From: BIG BEAR
03-Sep-17
Interesting side note... Cooper Rush from Central Michigan went undrafted.... but signed with Dallas.... and all of a sudden he's the backup QB for Prescott......

From: Rupe
03-Sep-17
KPC nailed it. Well said sir!!!

From: sleepyhunter
03-Sep-17
No pay to play, it wouldn't be fair to the students who go in debt for a college education.

From: BIG BEAR
03-Sep-17
No way do you pay them. Free college just because you are good in sports is already too much..... but that's the USA..... Like Cooper Rush..... every single college football player has his eyes on the prize... making it to the NFL..... and he proves that even a guy from a MAC school who goes undrafted has a chance.

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