Vietnam Documentary
Contributors to this thread:Community
From: DL
20-Sep-17
I hope all that can are watching this especially the generations after Vietnam. The Greatest Generation had nothing on the fighting men there said one combat reporter. Right at the end of tonight's show the president , McNamara and advisers in 1965 knew the war was not winnable. They had two options. One negotiation for peace or committe 200,000 troops to a lost cause. They chose the second. Johnson had been repeatedly living to the public about the war and what we were doing. Then he committed this atrocity. McNamara had no balls to stop it. There's a long line of soldiers waiting to piss on his grave. One reason I dislike politicians. Lieing dirtbags have no problem sending fine young men into harms way for lost causes.
From: Straight —» Arrow
20-Sep-17
It pissed me off at the time and it still pisses me off about the anti-war protestors and the disrespect I saw for our country among the hippies and other scum that burned our flag and spit on our soldiers. Our fighting men won every battle during that war and did everything expected of them and more. They were betrayed by politicians and pretty good swath of the American people as far as I am concerned. I missed that war by a couple of years but I had already decided what I was doing when I was old enough...I was joining up so I wouldn't be a draftee. As it turned out by the time I was old enough....they weren't really hiring.
From: sundowner
20-Sep-17
Johnson was a lying sob. He had no hesitation in sending good young Americans to die for no reason......about 55,000 I believe. I hope Johnson is residing in a special hot place reserved for him and others like him.
I served in the Navy on a destroyer during the Viet Nam years, and was fortunate to stay out of that war, but lost a lot of friends there.
From: Mad dog
20-Sep-17
58,220. Still Pow-MIAs unaccounted for as with our other Wars. I was born when it was raging in '67. My family despised the scum that spit on our soldiers, sailors, Airmen & Marines. We were no fans of the Kennedy's (not common for Irish Catholics) LBJ or the Lefty professors & Media. They knew Cronkite was biased. I remember watching the last of the caskets arriving, the POWs coming home, and the evacuation of The Embassy in '75. Remember my mom crying and we didn't even have a close relative involved, but they were AMERICANS GOD DAMMIT! I'm with you guys. There are countless everyday citizens that did NOTHING to support them. They know who they are and shall stay shamed. This war became my main interest of study in American Military history. I've read close to 100 books on the subject. The more I read the more I knew what was in my gut: The GOVT tied generals & NCOs hands. The DemoCRaps and their War Powers Act cut the funding to our allies whilst Soviet Union & China plowed it in the the NVA. THAT'S WHERE THAT WAR WAS "LOST." politically ONLY! I had a very bright and well regarded Professor with a Doctorate and several books to his name in college in the mid 90s. I used to debate him when he would say : "Vietnam....the first war America lost!!!" I wished I knew more, but did my best against him (he wasn't a real lefty otherwise) and the liberals in the classes. Fast forward a few years ago. I had just finished two great books (Death in the Valley, The battle of Dien Bien Phu & Stolen Valor. I looked up his email and unloaded some great facts & points on him and told him How angry I was when he would say we lost. He was actually very gracious, conceded my points and congratulated me for really doing my homework! I wish I Was An adult when they came home and got spat on or harassed. I would have beat the living shit out of the hippie, commie, anarchists. Just like flag burners, they deserve nothing less, beatdowns in the street. God bless all our Vietnam Vets, All vets of all stripes and God Bless America! Whew..had to let it rip...ha ha Mad dog
From: DL
20-Sep-17
Read David Hackworth's books. He was a soldiers soldier. He formed Tiger force where they applied gorilla tactics in fighting and was increabaly successful at it. He used night fighting tactics in Korea and Vietnam. The military heads didn't want to do it. They believed in a face to face confrontation. Those numbers to the right of those medals are how many he received. He came out on TV and said the war was not winnable using the current tactics the military was using. He was drummed out of the military. He was one of those men that thought he couldn't be killed. He had so many close calls an injuries that should have killed him.
From: Mad dog
20-Sep-17
I loved Hack... he used to be on Hannity. Mad Dog
From: Whitey
20-Sep-17
Really well done documentary so far.
From: Woods Walker
20-Sep-17
Vietnam was a textbook example of what happens when you have &*&^%$@ POLITICIANS fight a war and not the people who actually know what they're doing.
War is when you need to take the Grants, Schwarzkopf's, Pattons and Mattis' out of the gun safe you keep them locked away in and let them do their job. They have a pretty damn good track record.
From: Straight —» Arrow
21-Sep-17
Hackworth was a complete badass but not without controversy. I have read his memoirs and those of some of the men he commanded. He was the real deal in Korea and Vietnam.
From: Straight —» Arrow
21-Sep-17
men were dying to insure your right to protest.......that's for sure. I refuse to acknowledge that anyone died in vain. I simply won't hear it...they died for our country, for our way of life. They were called and they signed the blank check......nothing else needs to be said.
From: keepemsharp
21-Sep-17
I met some young Vietnamese there, 20 years old. They had never lived in peace, how would one inspire them to REALLY fight commies?
From: MT in MO
21-Sep-17
The peace protestors had a lot to do with how that war ended. I have read that at the end of TET the North was considering giving in and stopping the war. The Viet Cong had been wiped out as a fighting force, not a single North objective was held after the battle and the NVA regulars had been kicked in the teeth and beaten on every front. It would have looked similar to Korea with the country split in two. However, the peaceniks gave the North the idea that if they kept on going the domestic situation in the USA would end the war on their terms instead...They were correct...
From: Rocky
21-Sep-17
I will leave all comments on this thread to those who fought in Vietnam for they are my hero's and can speak for me until the end of time regarding their service and sacrifice. None walk this earth that I respect more than those who stood and faced the enemy of my youth. None, politics be damned. The pride to be a V.V. must be exhilarating beyond the comprehension of those who were mere spectators.
The Rock
From: DL
21-Sep-17
One military guy said it best. We always this war the way we fought the last war. The problem is that never works. The veitnam war soldiers had a way tougher time than WWII. Back then there were fronts, the other side wore different uniforms. Vietnam there were no enemy lines, everyone you came in contact with was a potential enemy. Men were sent out as decoys to find where the enemy was. Many of them killed in there tracks by being ambushed. They could fight for hours and then the enemy might just disappear. It was the "Greatest Generation" that go us into the Vietnam war. The War destroyed this country from what it was before the war. Politicians are to blame.
From: Woods Walker
21-Sep-17
"Politicians are to blame."
Yup. Just like always. Some things never change, do they?
From: LeatherneckGrandpa
21-Sep-17
Sorry, Spike. I just can't find it in my heart to forgive you.
From: canepole
21-Sep-17
Spike, I'm glad you're so proud with your actions while you were in college. The men who where serving this great country must have felt relieved knowing their fellow citizens we're protesting not only our countries involvement but of the solders who severed. Yes, you did state you or anyone you saw was never disrespectful toward any service personnel. You guys we're certainly in the minority!! I guess Jane Fonda thought she was right also. Gene
From: Straight —» Arrow
22-Sep-17
damn it was good last night. I am in awe of the men on that program. We owe them so much....not least of which is talking about their experience for the sake of history. It is hard to watch men dredge up and talk about things that they try so hard to put behind them and not think about. I hate that they have to feel any of it again.
From: Bowbender
22-Sep-17
"I am proud that I had a part in stopping that stupidity and some of you should be damn glad that there were so many people like me out there. "
No Spike. What you did whether you realize it or not was to encourage and foster an attitude towards the returning soldiers that had them spit upon, called all kinds of vile names, pushed to the background, forced to bury and hide who they were, their service to their country. Bury deep down, the horrors they had been thru. You'll get no praise from me on that.
From: Straight —» Arrow
22-Sep-17
BTW. well said Rocky!
From: Straight —» Arrow
22-Sep-17
"made sure that our guys had everything they needed to WIN decisively as fast as possible, as they should every time they deploy our troops."
that should be the politicians pledge. They should all swear to this as part of their oath of office.
From: MT in MO
22-Sep-17
The idea of 'winning' in Viet Nam was never defined. Officially we were there to assist the South in defending their democracy. Splitting the country in two was a follow through on the policies established during the Korean War. We really were not there to 'defeat' North Viet Nam. We were there to defend the South and to stop the spread of Communism.
Pretty sure no one in the USA gov't or military ever planned to conquer the North like the Allies did in WWII with regard to Germany, Italy and Japan. The plan was to make them stop attacking the south. It was a major miscalculation...JMO
There is little to no 'what if' thinking with regard to the results of the peacenik demonstrations in the USA and how that war ended. The NVA general Giap states in his memoirs that they were contemplating on quitting after TET. That is not speculation. Anyone can do a google search and find the interviews and if one really wants to, they can find his writings translated to English.
From: Straight —» Arrow
22-Sep-17
it really bothered me last night watching the smiling NVA officers brag about how they killed our men and exploited our weaknesses. F them.
From: Whitey
22-Sep-17
If you study the war it was clear that the protests forced the politicians to limit support and effectively hamstring the military. The protesters are responsible for many many deaths on both sides. Still shocking that they believe they saved lives and are somehow noble enough to brag about it.
From: Woods Walker
22-Sep-17
The public demonstrations against that war IMO definitely emboldened the enemy. When you combine that with incompetent, inept, inexperienced political hacks "running" it, and a left wing media doing all it can to subvert our efforts, what you wind up with is a trainwreck that cost WAY too many American lives.
From: Mad dog
22-Sep-17
I commend your honesty spike. I'll leave it at that. Is anyone familiar with The Bob Kalsu story? Had the chance to stay stateside in ROTC, HAD a great young wife, baby girl and Bob Jr on the way. He played for the Buffalo bills. Offensive Guard. His wife and family begged him to take the easy path. He said: " I AM NO BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE, I'M GOING..I gave my word." He was killed 2 months before he was to come home. Bob Jr. Born 2 days later. Look it up, Bill Nack wrote it for sports Illustrated. He was an earlier Pat Tillman. These and all who chose to serve and could've dogged it, are my heroes. God Bless. Mad Dog
From: Rocky
22-Sep-17
Protesting the war in Vietnam with zeal for a political belief falls woefully short of supporting with that same vigor the young and brave who rose to meet it. The anger, bitterness and treatment of our troops when they returned, leave alone when they were engaged in battle for their very life, was appalling to me that filled me with hate. I prayed that God would smite and scar them forever to beg for forgiveness which I also prayed would be met with the same bitterness and anger. Where were the signs from the marching protester's proclaiming the bravery of these young men who may have been led astray by no fault of their own, if fault there may have been, and defending their courage and honor with the highest regard while the blood was flowing and life slipping away before their eyes every moment of every day? None. Shame can be spread wide and far in this country for their behavior and decisions during this period against our soldiers, but shame itself is ashamed of itself , and will forever take a knee in the presence of those participants who fought. Personally, it will never be enough.
The Rock
From: DL
22-Sep-17
Like most wars it was fought predominantly by the poor, minoritys and middle class. The wealthy were better connected and more options. Such as, Air Force Reserves.
From: MT in MO
22-Sep-17
I agree the split country policy was not intentional with Korea. It was just how it worked out. From what I have read about both wars, we were never there to 'win' in the sense that WWII was won. We were there to defend our allies, to protect democracy and to stop the spread of communism.
On a side note, I think this is why Truman fired McArthur. McArthur wanted to nuke the Chinese border and take China out of the equation. He wanted to win like we had won WWII. The politicians were having none of that...
Neither war ever had a defined goal with regard to what winning meant. We were basically there to defend and support our Allies. The idea was to stop the enemy from attacking our allies. It was never to kill and wipe out the enemy like WWII was all about. That is why they were called Police Actions. This is where the idea of the USA being the Policeman of the World came from...
From: Mad dog
22-Sep-17
Exactly! Mac Arthur saw this pacifism and it's bedfellow Communism creeping in 30 yrs before. Truman was WRONG. Mac Arthur was CORRECT! Truman was hailed as the hero for having great balls to fire General Mac Arthur for DARING to pursue the NK & Chinese interlopers over the Yalu. That battle was WON and the border secured. Truman choked and we have an emerging Nuke-powered NK...lobbying ordinance at will. Give em Hell harry...the buck stops HERE, right? Any Deluded Truman sycophants wanna play? Mad Dog
From: Rocky
22-Sep-17
Spike,
I believe you know my respect for you personally here on this site. I may argue my position with you on every subject knowing you will not take it personal. Vietnam and the nights I laid awake crying hard like a child in the dark haunts me as if it was yesterday. Family and friends, sixteen (16), I would never see again, most Marines, many of who volunteered and a few who were chosen to volunteer without choice by authority. Who of the period here could ever forget that Christmas phrase as if receiving a gift "Greetings"? Protesters in this sector of Phila. were ghosts and if spotted would quickly become one. That is the way it was and for some of my friends who did return it remains till this day, and I love from the deepest regions of my soul all V.V. Thus the aggression and hatred that rises when I revisit that dark past and see the retired, comfortable in their life who marched against, smiling and forgetting without guilt the deep cut from their own atrocities. I wish I could let go of these emotions, then I catch myself and berate myself for thinking such thoughts. I apologize to those who I may meet again and toss the remainder of the night. Time they say heals all wounds. There is not enough time left in my life for me to agree.
The Rock
From: Mad dog
23-Sep-17
DL, I politely disagree. Read Stolen Valor, written by a Vietnam Vet who did exhaustive research on statistics, military service records, fraudulent PTSD claims, unearned medals and either greatly exaggerated or outright made up service (ex. Dan Rather, Actor Brian Dennehy et cetera) manufactured lefty media narrative. Minorities were represented no greater than their representative population. I remember a liberal professor in college: "Vietnam! That was the black mans war!." I haven't read the book in a few years, but I think the author found that it was slightly lower than their actual population. He also exposed how many were middle class boys who Grand dad's and pops fought in the world wars and they were super patriotic and motivated. Their desertion rates were far lower than other Wars and bravery on par with any of the gutsiest warriors of History. I recommend this as a MUST read if you are even going to comment on The War. It's eye opening. Anyone read it? Mad Dog
From: Mad dog
23-Sep-17
Thank you for your service and heartfelt expressions, Rock Mad Dog
From: keepemsharp
23-Sep-17
Speaking on unearned, can you say John Kerry?
From: Mad dog
23-Sep-17
Here it is. Anyone here read it ? Mad Dog
From: HA/KS
24-Sep-17
HA/KS's Link
Link to watch it from the PBS website.
From: Mad dog
24-Sep-17
Good one trublu. I'm dyslexic. That's how I read! HA ha Mad Dog
From: BC
24-Sep-17
Our men were fighting more than NVA regulars and guerrillas. The anti war left and the media ramped up the propaganda war at home and sapped the will and resolve of our commitment. Anyone who participated in that effort aligned themselves with the enemy, no matter how they try to justify it today. We didn't lose that war, we simply gave up from lack of will and unity. I don't believe our country has been the same since.
From: jjs
24-Sep-17
It was not the war that bothered me but coming back into the real world that really sucked. The last thing you wanted to tell anyone that you were a vet, applying for a job, school or a date was tough, just kept the mouth shut and did your job. Funny how one sees the vets wearing their colors now but didn't back in the late 60s or early mid 70s, we are all getting old now so what can be said except it was one big FUBAR. ROE was the start of undermining our military.
From: Mad dog
24-Sep-17
There comes a time to for choosing whom to stand and fight with. Aiding and abetting the enemy...Mad Dog
From: HeadHunter®
25-Sep-17
I think, the documentary was done by Leftist Liberal Anti-War types ...... you can not believe all that you see and hear in this 'show'! ..... It's just more anti-American crappola! People watch these 'things' and think it's gospel! When in fact it is left leaning bull! .... as for 'protesters', ..... they did not walk in my combat boots! .... some did, and that was a true shame also! I have "0" tolerance for the protesters period!..... Actual footage & pictures were good in this 'show', but they were hand picked for effect also! (JMHO)
From: Hunting5555
25-Sep-17
I was born in 1970, so it was never an issue for me. But I do remember 2 times growing up that my mom cried while watching TV. One was when Elvis died and the other was when they stopped the draft.......
I have been watching the show, and as HeadHunter said, I have kept the fact it is on PBS in the back of my mind the whole time. You can't help but notice how they are trying to portray LBJ as not being for the war. They do their best to lay it totally at the feet of the military leadership.
The other thing I have noticed is that they portray Ho Chi Myn as a peace loving leader just wanting the best for his people. It was his advisors that convinced him to do all the bad stuff basically.....
I am watching it more from an overall knowledge standpoint than taking everything they say as gospel. Timelines, etc...
The interview with the reporter that is portrayed in the movie "We Were Soldiers" was very good I thought. I loved his story about hopping a helo ride out to a fire base that was under attack. The commander took him over to a 30 cal. and showed him how to operate it. He tried to object because he was a reporter and the commander told him that people like that didn't exist out there. Then he told him "Shoot all the little brown men outside the perimeter you can, but don't shoot the little brown men inside the perimeter, those are mine!!"
I find myself feeling the same way as someone mentioned above, feeling mad when they interview a N.V. Soldier about attacking us. But then I have to remind myself, I'm sure they feel the same way watching it. Plus, they were also just doing their job in most cases.
From: keepemsharp
25-Sep-17
They have about got to the point when showed up. Have watched them all with a suspicious eye due to being PBS. The only one so far offending has been the one where the Hispanics were put-upon.
From: Mad dog
25-Sep-17
Ken Burns is an actor. Whatever sells books or documentaries. Ass kisser Mad Dog
From: Hawkarcher
26-Sep-17
Thank you and God bless all you Vietnam vets. Watching this I'm angry at a number of things: incompetence of leadership, lefty protesters, families losing loved ones. I was born in 1970 so I have no idea what it was like to live back then. But I appreciate you all.
From: Straight —» Arrow
27-Sep-17
I don't remember the riots around the 1968 election being such a big deal......but then I was only 12. I was pretty abnormal for a 12 year old though....I bought a poster of Richard Nixon from the young republicans guy that came by my house. I was for sure one of the few 12 year olds that had a poster of tricky dick Nixon. I also for sure thought McGovern and Hubert Humphrey were communists.
From: Joey Ward
27-Sep-17
That's pretty abnormal, Straight. :-)
Was more of a Tiegs/ Fawcett guy myself. Actually, still am. :-)
From: Straight —» Arrow
27-Sep-17
I know it is totally abnormal, but it just came back to me as I was typing. I had not thought of that poster for close to 50 years. I was a psycho conservative even back then...I would have voted for Barry Goldwater if I would have been old enough.
From: HDE
27-Sep-17
So, I read a post further up somewhere about being able bodied and young enough to enlist during a conflict. And then there are those that didn't and were drafted and went. So, it seems like there are millions of patriots out there who play the current lottery (selective service) system willing to go (maybe reluctantly) if called up, but at the moment, they have a different set of plans and goals for their lives and don't join up.
I hope nobody is too judgemental about them because those drafted had a different set of plans too...
From: BIG BEAR
27-Sep-17
"Not serving in the Military for my country was one of my very few big regrets in my life "....... Even you know that you were wrong Spike.
From: BIG BEAR
28-Sep-17
Nashville country singer Jan Howard was interviewed for the documentary..... After losing her son in Vietnam and writing a song about him..... A protester rang her doorbell and asked her to march in a war protest in Memphis. She told him one of the reasons her son died was for him to be able to protest. Then she told him she will not be joining his protest.... and if he ever rang her doorbell again she'd blow his damned head off with a .357 magnum.....
From: Hunting5555
28-Sep-17
Big Bear, I saw that. I loved it!!! That basically describes how I feel about these athletes taking a knee for the National Anthem.
From: HDE
28-Sep-17
What would happen if nobody showed up for the game(s) this weekend?
From: Mad dog
28-Sep-17
Wow...thats great B.B. I didn't get to catch all of it. They're all selfish, self-serving, grandstand primadonnas. From John Kerry, Jane Fonda to the NFL jerks. Mad Dog
From: Straight —» Arrow
28-Sep-17
people have literally given their lives simply so the flag would not touch the ground......not to mention all the caskets that come home draped with one. It is beyond me why this disrespect of the flag issue is not understood universally. I have a flag at home all folded in a triangle in a triangular box with a glass front. Purple heart pinned to the flag along with the telegram dated December 24th 1944 to my wife's grandmother. When my mother-in-law gave it all to me years ago I did my best to keep it from being obvious, but I felt like I was just crying like a baby. Because......it was Christmas at my house that day, fire in the fire place, snow on the ground, kids all home from college......and that man gave all his tomorrows for us. ......and at that moment I understood something I had never thought about before. You see......you get a purple heart for being wounded in combat....even if it is a fatal.
From: Whitey
28-Sep-17
I liked it and thought it was fair overall. I did not like how they had a couple of people talk for 7 episodes about their expireince in the war as soldiers and then show them tossing the medals over the fence. I think they should have said from the beginning that they were anti war protestors. They earned the right to their opinion and are not seen as the same as the other protesters anyhow. I thought they really hammered the politicians and I was surprised they showed Kennedy and Kissinger in such a true but very bad light. Negroponte summed it up well last night. We didn’t lose we bombed the North until they would Agree to let us leave.
From: Straight —» Arrow
28-Sep-17
Merrill McPeak was good. Even he said we were fighting on the wrong side. The RVN was corrupt as any government can possibly be and we were helping them. I get that part of it.
From: gflight
28-Sep-17
Can't have it both ways...
Posted on here a few times over the years about your protesting, so you must be proud of your actions.
Yet you regret not serving all of the sudden? I sure as he77 don't remember you saying that before.
I see Big Bear's point....
From: BIG BEAR
28-Sep-17
I know Vietnam was before my time.... I was born in 66..... but watching the documentary boils my blood some.... First and foremost all you Vietnam vets are my heros. To watch the documentary where it talked about 30,000 pussies fleeing to Canada..... While 30,000 Canadians ENLISTED to go pisses me off. My grandfather served on the USS Arizona for those aholes to turn their backs on their Country.
From: Mad dog
28-Sep-17
Springsteen....born to run...to Canada as well. He's a fraud. Mad Dog
From: Owl
28-Sep-17
Complicated subject. Back then, it appears the country was naive enough to trust in its government so I can see the calls of cowardice for those who dodged. The majority probably thought it was a just cause. However, would you send your kid off to fight for a corrupt government propping up a series of corrupt governments?
Either way, there is no excuse for disparaging the fighting men.
From: Bill in SD
28-Sep-17
I blame dead Jon Jon and lying lbj, along with bean counter whiz clueless Macnamera. Intially they were trying to stop communism. When they learned the south Vietnamese didn't, couldn't fight we should have left. 64, or 65 something. That's it right there. Nixon was no hero, he swore a lot, and did some crappy things. But the commies sure hated him and the show sure had a bone are for him. He got us out of Vietnmam like he promised. He did in a crappy dirty way, but he got it done. Idiots said over and over our government never lied before and that there had never been a Vietnman. BALONEY!! What was Korea? It was the same, very similar, crap. Democrat president micromanaging the war. What about WWII? Horrible, dishonest Roosevelt hung out tens of thousands of brave soldiers to die due to incompetence and political expediency. My dad's buddies in Vietnam in the Airforce said airfields were off limits because of Russian military, lots of Hanoi was off limits. Pilots couldn't completely destroy bridges. The pilots were totally hamstrung for the most part. The enemy could and did run off and we could not chase them. What it became was a body count war and the count didn't really matter because the commies where never going to quit. The show REALLY showed it's liberal colors with some of the liberal enlisted men who were very young weren't educated, protesting the war when they came back. Either it was some uneducated, enlisted man talking trash like the suicidal idiot that said our country sends children to war and agreed with John Kerry or a great man like the patriotic physician prisoner, who's moron wife went to the dark side, or the young patriot that ran away from home until his parents would sign for him and his pinko sister. Or the stupid commie black girl arguing with Agnew. Several vets have told me the only way to have won was to have put the friendlies on a big ship, then kill the commies, then sink the ship. The 60s turned this once great country upside down. We have never recovered. Thank you all who answered the call and served. You and your fallen comrades did not serve in vain. The way you were used for political interests and spit on when you returned disgusted future generations and our military is treated better now. Not by government but the population.
From: Woods Walker
29-Sep-17
Good post Bill. I have heard very much the same from people I know who served there.
From: Straight —» Arrow
29-Sep-17
Yes. Very good post Bill. I have been withholding my comments until I had seen the whole thing.....but I feel the show was about as left leaning as it could get and still be a documentary. I was for sure part of the "silent majority" of Nixon supporters that was beating the crap out of hippies and their ilk around 1973 and onward. I did not like the hippies then and I still pretty much view them as lowlife scums now. To me the anti-war people and hippies are one in the same.
From: Straight —» Arrow
29-Sep-17
I'm not judging anyone for not serving I am judging people for disrespecting our men and women in uniform and aiding our enemies in time of war. To me there was little difference between the violent, massive, anti war demonstrations that encouraged our enemy to hold on gave them an advantage at the bargaining table and Jane Fonda smiling and laughing while sitting on an anti aircraft weapon the NVA used to shoot down our pilots. If you don't like government policy then work within the system to get your people elected.....don't sabotage our own fighting men and women. The anti-war demonstrators were easily as responsible for as many GI deaths as Lyndon Johnson and face saving administration ever was.
From: Hunting5555
29-Sep-17
I will say, I have respect for the lady at the end last night. She was an anti-war protestor back then. She said she does not regret protesting the war, but she has deep regret for the things she and the protestors said to soldiers returning. It appeared to be honest sorrow for that.
One thing that did tick me off last night was when one of them said that Russia and China were better allies to N.K. because they stuck by them during the fight all the way to the end. Heck yeah they did, they were just supplying money and weapons. They didn't have young men dying on a daily basis in the fighting!!!!!
From: MT in MO
29-Sep-17
Lots and lots of Chinese died in the Korean War thanks to the United States Marines...Read about the Chosin Reservoir sometime...some of the fiercest fighting of any war took place there. They stacked them (the Chinese bodies) like cordwood and used them for protection because the ground was too frozen to dig fox holes. Horrific fighting under terrible weather conditions...The Russians supplied pilots for the Migs. China probably did too, but I am speculating on that...There were also Russian pilots fighting for the North in Vietnam...all very unofficial of course...There were various reports of Chinese regulars in some capacity in Vietnam also, but I don't know if that was ever verified. The Chinese and the Vietnamese have never really ever gotten along very well...
From: Straight —» Arrow
29-Sep-17
My Dad was in the Korean War. He told me when they had prisoners they could handle a thousand N. Korean's with just a squad or two. He said they damn near needed an entire infantry company and some armor to guard a couple hundred Chinese back to the rear.
From: Gray Ghost
29-Sep-17
KPC,
I agree with your last post.
I was born a year after you, so I was too young for the Vietnam draft, as well. But I did have to do the mandatory registration in 1981. I was in my first year of college then. Honestly, being drafted was the last thing I wanted to happen, but I would have gone if required. Thankfully it wasn't.
The thing is, most of the kids I knew who volunteered for military service didn't do it out of some noble sense of patriotism or civil duty. They did it because they couldn't afford college and they didn't want to flip burgers for a living. The military was perceived as a "free education", and an extended vacation away from home and parents. Some of these kids made a career of the military, but most couldn't wait to come home when their first term of duty was over.
So, the whole more-patriotic-than-thou attitude that some vets have irritates me, since patriotism wasn't the reason many of them served to begin with. I have no problem with them wearing their service as a badge of honor, and I thank God we have men and women willing to volunteer, but I wish they wouldn't look down their noses at others who chose a different path.
Matt
From: Owl
29-Sep-17
I do believe, in hindsight, the protestors saved a lot GI lives. It is logical. The more unpopular the war became, the more viable it was to extract, politically. If the kids had toed the line and the mainstream been more long suffering, the outcome would have been worse.
From: Whitey
29-Sep-17
I don’t think it’s true at all but we are both Monday morning quarterbacking. If Johnson and Kennedy had the full support of the country they would have destroyed the VC and NVA camps and supply lines in Laos and Cambodia. They would have bombed into oblivion Hanoi and every significant village in the north. All they would have had to worry about was how the Chinese would react. It would have drastically changed the war. Both Johnson and Nixon altered their war plan because if election. Nixon told Kissinger that they couldn’t end the war before his reelection fir fear the would fall.
From: Woods Walker
29-Sep-17
I wasn't in a lot of fights as a kid but the one's I were in taught me a very basic rule of survival. You all you can do AVOID a physical confrontation, but if it does start you go ALL OUT. You fight to WIN, whatever it takes. The one with the "first-est and the most-est" usually comes out on top. Military leaders know this better than anyone. Unfortunately politicians do not, and are the one's responsible most of the time when it turns into a kluster****. Viet Nam was a CLASSIC example of this. You either fight to win, or don't fight at all.
From: Owl
30-Sep-17
WWx2
It's like politicians read Sun Tzu and decide to Costanza the principles (do the exact opposite).
From: Mad dog
01-Oct-17
Pacifism, appeasement and the lack of desire for Total victory was a Demo-CRAP position seen for the first time with Woodrow Wilson. Mac Arthur saw this creeping in with the state dept. & brassn and wrote extensively on it and did everything he could fight against it. "Appeasement begets new and bloodier war." No fan of FDR, but he generally listened to Mac Arthur and let it rip, i.e., Total War Total Victory. Truman in Korea started the holding back nonsense and thus we have a Nuclear Madman in charge there. "There is no substitute for Victory!." Mad Dog
