Need advice on CC handgun for daughter
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My wife carry a sw bodyguard and loves it shoots well
M&P Shield. 9mm 7+1 capacity. Loaded with 124gr Federal HST's is potent self defense medicine.
The Shield carries and conceals well and shoots very nice. I can hold a fist size group at twenty yards with mine. Right now they can be had for $299.
I would take her to a range and let her shoot several different guns and then get the one she likes. everyone's hands and tastes are different and she may like something you hate. I have done this with my wife a few times and she got what she liked. My daughters aren't there yet, but when they are, that's how I will do it. Personally speaking I find that most woman like a smaller framed revolver in 38, but let them decide.
I'll second the Shield. It's easy to carry, and easy to shoot well. If you lived nearby I'd let you take mine to the range and make some noise.
S&W upgraded the Shield with a better trigger, among other things, recently. Either version is good, but the better the trigger, the easier to shoot.
Shieldx3
Advice: don't buy a .380. They don't fit the hand and it hurts to practice for proficiency.
Stick with semi-auto 9s because they are inherently much more pleasant to shoot and safer, especially if she has kids in the near future - she'll want to carry/ store on an empty chamber.
One 380 does fit the hand, the Glock. I don't, however, recommend the Glock for a newbie because of the lack of a safety except for the one on the trigger.
I will tell you the Glock 42 is extremely pleasant to shoot and easy to shoot very well. Most 380s, like the Ruger LCP, hurt my hand.
"I would take her to a range and let her shoot several different guns and then get the one she likes." Fantastic advice if that is an option.
Also if she does not now reside in a constitutional carry state, urge her to move to one.
I like a small hammerless revolver.....
For a small person, a LCP 380 with Crimson Trace loaded with LeHigh Xtreme penetrator or defender would fit the needs. This is a self defense weapon only, nothing you want shoot everyday at the range, you can get a different spring to tame the mild jolt and a different trigger to suit your needs. https://gallowayprecision.com/ruger/lcp/
For a light small single stack 9mm, look at the keltec PF9 and Galloway also makes after market parts to suit your needs.
Never shot a Glock 42. I'll pick one up the next time I have the opportunity. My LCP requires a grip extension to be considered humane to my hand. lol
X4 on MP Shield. I would recommend 40 S&W.
My wife is 4'8' and weights 97 pounds. She has 9 MM, 380, 22 and 357 mag. The 357 Mag is a Ruger SP 101. It is stainless steel and she has one with 3" barrel. I installed crimson trace to it and she loves it. Just practicing she uses 38 special ammo but can handle it with 357 defense loads. She likes it better than the semi autos because there is no racking and just put in the bullets and shoot, no worry about jamming. Easier to load than the semi autos. She killed a big tree climbing snake that was after a Cardinal nest with babies. Did it with one shot. My daughter likes 45 semi autos and does very well with them. She can out shoot most men. My sister in law shoots all kinds of handguns and I have seen her hit the ram at 200 yards with a 44 mag. She has won championships and says to go to a gun store and let your daughter try different handguns. That is the best way.....let her decide. BTW the 357 mag will give as many one shot kills as the 45 and with modern ammo the 9 MM is deadly.
I've bought every female family member (4 of them) a 9mm Shield. They all shoot them well. Gene
Get her a revolver. The last thing she needs is to be unable to rack a round when she needs it.
My carry pistol is a Kimber .45 ACP CDP II Ultra Carry. Racking a round requires a reasonable physical effort and I'd think most women couldn't do it.
One of my handguns is a hammerless five shot S&W .38 Special with about a 2 1/2" barrel. It's easy to shoot and it would fit into all but the smallest purses.
You're a good dad Hackbow! All great advice above too.
And BIG BEAR......Would you please explain you hammerless revolver preference a bit more? I'm going to be getting my first CC weapon, and I'm more partial to revolvers so I'd like to hear your thoughts.
I'd see if you can go to the gun range with her and some buddies and let her shoot a bunch of different guns (assuming you can't shoot them at the gun store). Sometimes what feels good in your hands when you're just holding it is different than shooting it. The 9mm kurtz (aka 380) might be a good gun for someone with small hands. I had one once and the slide would damn near take my thumb off when I shot it and the end of the handle wasn't even below my pinky, so I hated shooting that thing and got rid of it. If you get a chance to shoot a Dan Wesson bobtail give that one a try. A friend of mine has one in .45 and that's the semi I'd buy. A lot of people are partial to the Glocks; I've shot one and I thought the grip was about as comfortable as a 2x4. Bottom line though, shoot a few and then get whatever she likes the most.
I like revolvers simply for the safety factor for people who don't shoot a lot.... it doesn't get any simpler than a revolver.... I don't have any statistics and haven't done any research.... but my gut tells me that if someone is going to have an accidental discharge with a pistol.... it's going to be with a semi-automatic........ I like hammerless because it's one less thing to get snagged and it forces the shooter to pull the full weight of the trigger in double action.... again... making for a safe gun in my opinion..... but I would not discount a lot of the other advice here.... a lot of good advice.
Woods, the hammer-less .357 I shot has an internal hammer so you can't manually cock it and fire with a fine trigger, so it was more of a "hard pull" when you fire it just like a regular double action revolver when you fire it without manually cocking the hammer. It's not really hard to pull the trigger, just harder. A snub .357 with an internal hammer is definitely a good concealed carry gun IMO......add the laser sight too.
I recommend the Sig P938. I love mine.
A few years ago I bought my wife a Ruger SP 101 five shot .357 revolver, which takes .38 Special ammo.
We went to the range with the instructor I use for my CCW license training. He's retired from the Reno PD where he was their firearms instructor. He walked her through the process and showed her the proper form and technique.
She must be a natural, because she was drilling the target with every shot!
Another for the Shield in 9mm - my wife is 5-4 118lbs small hands - shoots it very well.
When you conceal carry a auto like a lcp it should be racked and ready....
The LCR 38 with internal hammer and crimson trace is a small light package and a good shooter, the same in 357 is brutal.
My wife enjoyed shooting a friends Glock 10mm, it just goes to show everyone is different.
Yes.... Pistols are like bows and trucks...... Pretty much all the major brands are good and will do the job.... So it comes down to what you like and what is best suited for you....
I disagree with a revolver. It's not safe around kids because anyone with simple dexterity and nominal hand strength can operate the gun. Not so with a semi-auto. Carried empty chamber, a young child is almost virtually unable to operate it.
The thing about a carry weapon is that it has to be present to be effective. If it is unsafe, mom or dad will leave stashed out of reach and unloaded. Useless except for home defense.
Owl,
We're old farts and there are no kids in the house.
When it's in your house it should be locked up..... Your kids should never get their hands on it..... We've had 4 or 5 accidental discharges in my career by cops at my department... including one that shot himself in the leg.... All with semi-auto pistols.... granted.... we carry Glocks but a lot of guys carry revolvers off duty....
Accidental discharges are no joke. I've been shooting for 35 years and had my 1st one last year; it scared the shit out of me! Big Bear, I think if you know of 4-5 in your career, they are definitely under reported. I know if my friend wasn't with me, I wouldn't admit to it (he's spread the word so it's not like I'm keeping a secret). If you do have kids, make sure they don't have access to firearms, loaded or otherwise.
Sig makes great guns.... They are a bit expensive but worth it. We carried Sig 9mm's early in my career. The heavy first pull of the trigger is like a revolver trigger pull and acts as a sort of safety.... You have to train with the decock lever to get used to decocking...... good guns.
The reason I like the Ruger SP 101 is because you can cock it, which is easy, and have a real good trigger pull. You can shoot it without cocking it but it takes a little more effort. I have carried mine concealed but often carry a Beretta Nano, 9 mm. I also like Crimson Trace and they are easy to install. A gun shop will install it for you but it will cost you. Just put the red dot on what you want to shoot and squeeze the trigger. Crimson Trace is great in the dark as long as you can see the target you don't have to see your sights.
I have been in a house with loaded guns since the day I was born. A gun is no good if it isn't loaded and where you can get your hands on it. I raised four kids and they could all shoot at a very young age. I have two gun safes but they are to store my guns when I go away but any time my wife or I are home we have guns within reach. I wouldn't recommend having guns where kids can get to them but we don't have kids at home now but we made out just fine with our kids.
Lots of great advice here - I have a SW Shield myself. I just want to throw one more suggestion out there.
Beretta Tomcat. This is the gun my wife chose when we looked at a lot of the guns mentioned here. She didn't like the revolvers (SW hammerless) because of their bulk, and didn't like semi-autos (Walther PPK, and similar .380 autos) because of the hand strength it took to work the slide.
The tomcat is very compact, and has the unique feature of allowing you to load the first round by pulling a lever that lifts the barrel up from the back, allowing you to slide the first round in the chamber and simply press the barrel back down. They never have to work the slide.
I think the biggest it goes it .32 ACP which isn't my first choice, but you can find some really hot loads for it that would do the job when needed.
The key is to find what SHE is most comfortable with and can carry the way she wants it. If it's left in the car or house it won't give her or you peace of mind.
Best luck in your decision.
Edited, here's a great youtube link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGkbnV_OyY0
Shuteye: It sounds like you live/lived in the same house I do/did.
Many small females have trouble with small self loader actions. Not enough resistance in gripping to make it function properly. Small revolvers ALWAYS function.
My current choice is the S&W Bodyguard .380. It is definitely not the best caliber and doesn't fit the hand great being so small. But, I find anything bigger is just a pain for me while doing anything active. The one you have with you beats the one that you leave at home. I can shoot it well and at 20 yards and under they are all in a cluster. That said, I know females that carry midsize choices all the time so me being a sissy about carrying bigger guns doesn't apply everyone :^)
My wife can operate the Bodyguard fine but isn't an avid shooter. A S&W Ladysmith revolver is a nice small, simple, hammerless choice.
Glocks are like Coleman Lanterns.... You could throw one in a lake for 10 years and then pull it out and it would still function..... We are one of the few Departments in the State that carry .357 Auto in Glock.... The only thing I don't like about Glocks is taking them down... it's a difficult maneuver..... much easier with a Sig
My wife ha s the snub nosed judge loaded with 410 buck shot and number 6s. Helps eliminate aiming a little.
Pig Doc I also live in MA and am able to conceal it. What town is she in? It's a shame the police chief gets to decide if you can conceal. All liberal chiefs deny everyone. Luckily I live in a small town with zero crime. It's the city's here with all the crime where you get denied. Makes sense don't it!
The Judge out of the box has a 12-15 lb trigger pull. Because of the trigger pull, it's hard to shoot well. At least that was good news for a former client of mine, whose wife tried to shoothim, and sent a bullet close enough to his right ear to cause some deafness.
Get her a liability policy too. The avg. cost to defend yourself in a lawful shooting is $250k.
Took my wife to shooting range to try various. She ended up with Sig P-238, which is a clone of the Colt Mustang .380. I have the Colt, but it has been modified to have better sights.
She did not like revolvers, trigger pull was too much. Could not rack the slide on the 9mm's easily. After shooting my Colt and the Sig, she chose the Sig. An added benefit is that all the Colt magazines that I have will fit and work in her Sig.
Terry
It's been recommended that if you are going to use a handgun who's caliber starts with a number LESS than a "4" as protection in grizzly bear country to make sure that it's hammerless......this way it won't hurt as bad when the grizz shoves it up your ***!
when my daughter graduated from law school and became a prosecutor I bought her the sig p320 sub compact. It is sig's answer to glock and it the new modular handgun the army bought. I think it was pretty close to $600.
It holds 20 rounds of 9mm in a subcompact frame and the trigger pull is always the same. I like it for her...not complicated and has a large magazine capacity. I like the slim single stacks for myself because I'm carrying under a shirt but but my daughter carries in her purse. I wanted her to have a lot of rounds was my primary consideration along with simplicity of a striker fired weapon. I purposely eliminated all 1911's and any DA/SA as too complicated.
"The only thing I don't like about Glocks is taking them down... it's a difficult maneuver"
It is not commonly known but more people have shot themselves with glocks than all other handguns put together. Granted there are more of them out there but pulling the trigger to field strip the weapon is the big reason for it.
Yep. We had an accidental discharge in the gun cleaning room by someone taking a Glock apart...... operator error..... but the goofy way you take apart a Glock is just asking for trouble.....
"Yep. We had an accidental discharge in the gun cleaning room by someone taking a Glock apart...... operator error..... but the goofy way you take apart a Glock is just asking for trouble....."
Really? Drop the mag, rack the slide two or three times. Verify it's empty. Am I missing something?
Yep.... The human element.... We went from years and years of carrying Sigs which have a takedown lever to Glocks with some funky pull the trigger and push these 2 levers while pushing this way or something of that sort to take the damned thing apart.... I could see accidental discharges coming a mile away when we switched...... You should see the confused look on guys faces when they start to break down a Remington 870 12 Ga. for cleaning..... Or a patrol rifle for that matter.....
I'll take breaking down my Glock 19 over my Shield any day of the week. I can have my Glock apart in 1/4th the time as my Shield and that includes racking the slide 2 or 3 times to make sure it's empty before pulling the trigger.
Love em or hate em, the fact is Glocks just plain work. I will say though, I can generally shoot my Shield more accurately than my 19.
The rule for disassembling Glocks is do so when there is no ammunition in the room at all.
I think the point is that simple is better. the Glock is a fine design......even revolutionary given all the striker fired plastic copycat guns out there today. The trigger pull thing to field strip is a weakness and needs to be redesigned. It has been criticized since Glocks were invented.
Don't get me wrong.... I think Glocks are fantastic guns... There's a reason that a very large percentage of Police Departments across the country carry them....As for Police training.... I know how much of a logistical nightmare it is to get about 125 Officers trained and qualified ONCE a year with their duty sidearm.... their backup.... The shotgun and the Patrol Rifle.... I can't even imagine how difficult it is to keep up with training in Departments that have thousands of Officers..... SWAT Officers get quite a bit more training as do range instructors....
BB, I think most of us have a bad tendency to think of Police Officers as gun guys like we are. Probably a majority are not. Its a tool they pick up of a morning and carry all day and put away at night just like a hammer is to a carpenter.
SB, my Shield is not stock!!! LOL I had a carry trigger kit install when I purchased it along with Big Dot sights. My 19 is stock except I've now installed Big Dot sights and I've polished the trigger components. I keep thinking I will do more upgrades to it, but I haven't yet.
"just like a hammer is to a carpenter."
Not a good comparison, IMO. :-)
Police Officers are regular people..... They vary from total gun nuts down to people who never even shot a gun until the Police Academy.... and every thing in between....
S&W MP Shield in .40 cal. I carried one until they came out with the .45 ACP, so I carry that every day now. The .45 might be a little too much "jump" for her, but the .40 shoots very much like most 9mm handguns.
The Ruger LCP is good too if you want to go with .380.
Big believer in the .22, put down horses, dogs,raccoons, ect., very accurate and with hollow point creates a large tissue damage. When up close and personal I know it will hit the spot and if someone going to shoot me I know I will be hit more so than the bigger cal. Carried one when in Alaska and still do, probably one of the most underrated cal. but one of the most effective one, light weight and cheap ammo, very effective for cc. My wife is very good with one.
I'm surprised no one has suggested the Glock 27 Gen4 40 cal. Small, light, accurate and packs a punch. My 5'1" wife loves shooting mine, and is quite proficient with it.
Matt
A carpenter uses his hammer every day and is very proficient with it. A police officer carries his hand gun every day but doesn't use it. Around here the game wardens and police would meet once a year for training and it was a competition between them. The police officers never came close to beating the game wardens shooting handguns.
The first thing that stood out to me with the shooting of the terrorist in New York was the amount of shots fired and the guy was hit one time, in the leg. He wasn't shooting back either. Where did those misses go? Don't get me wrong, I am 100% behind the police officers but especially in New York the aren't good shots.
Sundowner, I love the Shield 40. Shoots very well and although I have never shot a Glock as they are illegal in MA I feel the Shield breaks down very easy for cleaning.
GG, Glocks are magnificent handguns, but I tend to think of them for very experienced shooters. The Shield has a safety on the slide. For $50, you can add a trigger button safety on a Glock, which I think would be a good move for a likely neophyte.
I am thinking of getting one installed.
Spike, yeah I really like the Shield in any caliber. I tried a Springfield XDS in 45 but it was not very comfortable to shoot.
bk, I definitely agree with you about the need for a safety on Glocks, especially when they are used/carried by inexperienced folks.
My coworker likes his Shield 45. Very manageable recoil for a smaller gun.
Here is my Shield 40 next to my Sig P938. Not much difference in size the Shield is a little beefier but conceals well.
I installed night sights on the Shield and decided on the i dot style. If you haven’t tried this sight I can say I like it a lot for quick target acquisition.
I'll say the same as I always do, I prefer a revolver over a semi auto, especially for cc, when that gun is in a purse, pocket, whatever, even in a holster, dirt and other debris can cause issues with a semi, a revolver always goes boom when you pull the trigger,
"GG, Glocks are magnificent handguns, but I tend to think of them for very experienced shooters.
I tend to think only experienced shooters should be packing. My wife actually likes my S&W 45 mag 6-shooter with a double action better than my Glock. But, it's a handful for her.
I'd never trust a neophyte with either my Glock or S&W.
Matt
We have night sights on our guns too Spike... but studies show that you're not going to use your sights in a critical incident shooting.... We did ton of point shooting in training this year... no sights involved... close range...
We shot at 9pm in total darkness in class. Your muscle memory takes over. I drew from leather, 2 shots, 3 times, 7 yards fast, and the group was the size of a good apple. That's when I learned just how good the modern technique was.
And yes, I'm not suggesting the untrained should be carrying. But the reality is, a lot of police officers who have had a hell of a lot of training, and others, have had enough problems that the term "Glock foot" was invented.
That's because most of them carry Glocks. There's also a reason for that.
Matt
Safety. No safety. It all boils down to practice, practice, practice!!!! You have to know how to draw, shoot and re-holster properly no matter what gun is on your hip.
Spike if I remember correctly, when the Seals were originally created, their ammo training budget was bigger than the rest of the whole Marine Corp.
When you throw in some guys are just natural shooters while some couldn't practice enough......
SEALs not Seals. they get pissed off about the lower case. training by playing a game is good like IPSC or IPDA. Start hanging with some practical pistol people if you want to get good. Once you get doing it the right way down in muscle memory you can really start to practice and become better. Worst thing you can do is get the wrong way into muscle memory that's for sure. Unlearning a wrong way of shooting is frustrating.
My take; Pistol shooting is all about practice....and lots of it. The women I've taken out to shoot at the range much prefer a lower recoil weapon. This rules out the .40cal and above crowd.
My sis asked me the same question; what pistol? Even a .380 is snappy for her but she liked a .22. Folks new to handguns need to get used to the fact it goes bang....I think many of us that have been shooting for years forget that.
My advice; Start her on a .22, have her shooting that until she gets used to it [Hey everyone needs a good .22!] You don't want her CC right out of the gate anyway. Then once she has experience, move her up to a .380 or 9mm....and make sure she dry fires it A LOT.
The reality is she is not going to be saving a movie theatre full of folks with her pistol. The kind of encounters where she might have to pull her pistol....most bad guys will stare down the barrel and run. They aren't going to say, "Its only a .380 or .22, I will take a couple rounds from that pea shooter"
My wife had difficulty racking a semi autos (Sig p238) though she handled recoil fine. My and her preference for safety is for Israeli method of CC (empty chamber- weapon on fire).
We found a Taurus 85 ultralight revolver in 38 SP much more to her liking. Hammer down on empty chamber. Point and Click. Recoil, while more that the 380 was manageable and round packs a bit more punch.
Personally I don't by into the mouse gun argument. For those that do, I am taking volunteers to stand infront of a 22 LR
All is well
iMO, unless your pistol can chamber hollow points easily, you want something bigger than a 9mm, perhaps .40, 10mm or .45... Fully jacketed 9mms penetrate too well and don't expand well... Just ask Michael Brown.. Anyhow, any gun that can be carried safely chambered is a good choice. I like a 1911 frame personally and they can be bought with varying capacities, but I like the thumb safety. It feels safe when I carry and when I jam the thumb break on my holster, once the snap releases, the thumb naturally disengages the safety, so when the gun clears the holster, it is hot. The guns with the trigger safety, a lot of folks don't like to carry with one in the chamber because they are afraid it will go off when they grab it, but carrying a unloaded weapon and having to rack the slide in order to put it in to operation when the stress is on,,,, well you would be better off carrying a rock. Anyhow, the XDS in .45 is nice, shoots really well, recoil is manageable,, and makes a really big hole, which is good. The biggest bit of advice I can give though is to practice a lot with it.
For people who say that their wives or daughters have trouble racking the slide on a Semiauto try this: Instead of using your left (weak) hand to draw the slide back, hold the slide with that hand and push the gun forward with the hand holding the pistol. It sounds weird as I type it, but every single person I have shown it to gets it quickly, then looks at me and smiles and says "why did nobody ever show me that before"?
I have taught the NRA Basic Handgun class to a number of women, people with small hands, and even several 80+ year olds, (men and women), they were all racking the slide with ease after a little bit of practice with that technique.
My advice for anyone asking about what handgun to buy is shoot as many as you can, rent them, borrow them whatever. Your first one probably won't be your last one, so don't be afraid to buy a .22 rimfire first and shoot it a ton. Most beginners start off thinking they can find one gun that will work for all applications, you can't. Small and concealable requires different things than the right handgun for your nightstand/ home protection.
And check out N82 (Nate Squared) Holsters, by far the most comfortable IWB Holster I've worn. (see link)
Matt...I have a G27 and it's a great little gun. Even better, I have an Advantage Arms conversion that allows it to shoot .22LR. I usually carry the G27 while on the tractor or working out back on our property as such.
Also, shooting .22's for practice is much cheaper ;o)
We use the Glock 33 as our backup........ in .357 auto.... When our department tested and evaluated guns and calibers to decide which one to choose.... They decided on the .357 auto because it was determined that a 40 might be too much for female Officers and small stature guys..... The .357 is not widely used but it's a bad ass round... Some of our guys still carry Smith revolvers as backup.....
Tiger Eye I’m surprised she has trouble racking the slide. I’m not sure how it compares to my P938 but I can say it is the easiest slide I ever pulled back zero effort involved. Have her give one a try.
Thanks Spike but I think it was more her unfamiliarity and the dexterity required than an actual strength issue. It was too "busy " for her.
The revolver is just simpler and she feels more comfortable with it. I'm ok as long has she carries. I have her shooting the Sig when we go shooting and she is getting a bit more used to it. Familiarity and comfort with the weapon is probably the single most factor in competency. Maybe she'll go back, but she's getting damned good with that 38.
Nothing wrong with a good revolver, although, I strongly recommend a trigger job on the darn thing. A well-tuned double action pull on a Smith and Wesson is a joy to shoot, and easy to shoot accurately.
Great tip ACE....I take the women in my family and their friends shooting and cannot believe I didn't think of that
I just converted my Sig P229 from .40 S&W to .357 sig. Much faster round.
