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20 Something’s Being Teachers...
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Contributors to this thread:
'Ike' (Phone) 17-Nov-17
Glunt@work 17-Nov-17
Salagi 17-Nov-17
AZOnecam 17-Nov-17
70lbdraw 17-Nov-17
Quailhunter 17-Nov-17
AZOnecam 17-Nov-17
K Cummings 17-Nov-17
Quailhunter 18-Nov-17
K Cummings 18-Nov-17
Quailhunter 18-Nov-17
Woods Walker 18-Nov-17
K Cummings 18-Nov-17
Rocky 18-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 18-Nov-17
Glunt@work 18-Nov-17
HA/KS 18-Nov-17
HA/KS 18-Nov-17
Glunt@work 18-Nov-17
petedrummond 18-Nov-17
HA/KS 18-Nov-17
Owl 18-Nov-17
elkmtngear 18-Nov-17
AZOnecam 18-Nov-17
Mike the Carpenter 18-Nov-17
TD 18-Nov-17
K Cummings 19-Nov-17
K Cummings 19-Nov-17
Pat Lefemine 19-Nov-17
Quailhunter 19-Nov-17
Salagi 19-Nov-17
HA/KS 19-Nov-17
K Cummings 19-Nov-17
Glunt@work 19-Nov-17
HA/KS 19-Nov-17
Bob H in NH 20-Nov-17
rdohn 20-Nov-17
brunse 20-Nov-17
bad karma 20-Nov-17
HA/KS 20-Nov-17
HA/KS 20-Nov-17
Salagi 20-Nov-17
HA/KS 20-Nov-17
Mint 21-Nov-17
K Cummings 21-Nov-17
Mint 21-Nov-17
17-Nov-17

'Ike' (Phone)'s Link
Maybe not such a good idea, how many is this now...?!?

A married North Carolina teacher and junior varsity cheerleading coach was arrested Wednesday after allegedly having a sexual relationship with a male student.

From: Glunt@work
17-Nov-17
Not sure if its more common or we just hear about happening more. The only gripe I have with the 20 something teachers I have been around recently is a few say "like" once or twice every sentence.

From: Salagi
17-Nov-17
We definitely hear about it more than we did when I was in school but I really think society is more accepting of what we used to consider sexual misconduct. Fortunately, I think we at least still draw the line at teacher/student sexual relationships. When I was in junior high back in the early 70's my favorite teacher got a senior girl pregnant. He was fresh out of school himself so there wasn't that big of an age difference, (she was 18). He was given a choice by the school board to resign or be fired. Now he would be fined by the state department of education and lose his license besides any criminal charges that might be brought forth. Our school was a small rural school in very conservative area, my graduating class had 41 in it making it the largest in the school's history so this was a big deal for us at the time.

From: AZOnecam
17-Nov-17
It's the double standard that gets me. If it were male teachers having sex with female high school students at this rate, it would be getting a lot more attention. Probably called an "epidemic" by now.

From: 70lbdraw
17-Nov-17
Lol! AZ...that happened a lot back in my high school days!! 79 - 83

From: Quailhunter
17-Nov-17
I’m a teacher. Started when I was 23. Thanks for generalizing. This crap has been going on forever. How many teachers in this country? Yea, must be an epidemic. You want to know what is an epidemic? Lack of common sense and poor parenting. But that’s our fault too.

From: AZOnecam
17-Nov-17
Ouch, hit a nerve.

From: K Cummings
17-Nov-17
Per capita, it's probably not happening any more or less than it ever has. It's just that when I was in high school, male students knew when to keep their mouths shut.

;)

KPC

From: Quailhunter
18-Nov-17
Yea it did a little bit... seems to be the only things that get reported on regarding education are negative. Lots of good teachers out there.

From: K Cummings
18-Nov-17
Quailhunter:

On a serious note, in many circumstances, brand new teachers can be teaching kids that are only 4 or 5 years younger than themselves. I am all for taking responsibility for one's actions but I wonder if that isn't just a problem waiting to happen.

I think of some of the "kids" that will be graduating college this year with my daughter, and while they are adults chronologically, they are still children emotionally. Combine that with the level of sexuality of the average hs student and you have a recipe for disaster. I remember having this discussion with a friend that is a teacher (male). He said when he first started, it was a struggle every day. He was amazed at how willing, and able, young women were to turn on the charm...and other things, and how downright manipulative they can be. He basically said it wasn't a matter of finding them attractive or not, it's a matter of having enough self control to not act on it. He is a great guy, a great dad, and a great teacher...and even he found it hard. I'm sure the same is true for young female teachers and male students.

Would it makes sense to limit the age of the students that new teachers can teach until they are more mature in the profession and have a few years of experience under their belts?

I don't know the answers, I was just curious what your opinion is.

KPC

From: Quailhunter
18-Nov-17
I had one or two make me uncomfortable my first couple of years. I taught high school so I wasn’t much older than the seniors. One of the problems we are running in to here in Oklahoma is emergency certifications. We’ve made the job so unappealing here that we have an emergency certification route that people can take to get certified. Can end up with all walks of life in the classroom. Some make great teachers. Some don’t. Just had a young lady make the news in Yukon, Ok yesterday. Emergency certified and 22 years old.

Our teacher shortage here is at crisis level and I just don’t think people understand how bad it really is. We need warm bodies in the classrooms. I like the idea of what you’re saying but beggars can’t be choosers sometimes. And some states, like Oklahoma, will make it easier for people to get in instead of making it an appealing job. Yea, I’m talking salary. Money talks.

There’s always gonna be some no matter where you are that can’t control themselves and I’m not sure there’s a solution for it. Like others said above, its been going on forever. Now you just hear about it. Hell, Fox even has a little section on their website devoted to teachers having sex with students. That gives the impression that it’s some new thing that’s happening out there.

From: Woods Walker
18-Nov-17
In the 50's and 60's when I was in school there'd be some girl who suddenly just wasn't there anymore. Like she vanished. No one knew what happened. I learned later that when a school girl became pregnant (either by another student or a teacher) they sent them to a special school. How true that was I don't know, but I do know that a few of them did disappear.

From: K Cummings
18-Nov-17
Yep, just like anything else, I guess there are multiple levels to every problem, and no easy answers. I think of what we spend here in MI on things that are totally unrelated (in my opinion) to actual education and I think of how that could be better spent.

I went to parochial school (many of which are perpetually broke) through elementary school, and public school for junior high and high school so I've seen both sides.

I'm of the opinion that there is already enough money in the system, it just needs to be allocated better. That and the fact that parents are willing to do less and less in the education process, and demanding that teachers do more and more. I know parents that screamed bloody murder when they had to buy a graphing calculator for 80 bucks, but thought nothing about spending 500 bucks for the latest iPhone, Xbox, or prom dress. Combine that with the fact that the only time some parents want to get involved at all is when they feel some teacher hurt their precious child's feelings.

But hey, that's probably a different discussion for a different day.

KPC

From: Rocky
18-Nov-17
Generally speaking parents and Planet Fitness are one and the same. There was a time when parents sacrificed their time their money the shirt off their back and their love at the dinner table for their children. Laugh and recoil but its the truth. Too much "me" in this new world and restaurants littering the highways are the palaces of socially broken homes. Check out the gross for child psychiatry in America today that falls on the taxpayer alone let alone private funds. Nothing is free. Everybody pays one way or the other and if it effects your children, well, that goes with the territory.

From: BIG BEAR
18-Nov-17
Quailhunter..... if you really want a lot of negativity towards your profession..... try being a Police Officer........ Thank you for what you do !!!

From: Glunt@work
18-Nov-17
My wife isn't a teacher but she does work for the school district and basically has the same schedule. Its a pretty great gig in her opinion. 2 1/2 months off in the Summer, a week at Thanksgiving, long Christmas break, a week for Spring break, weekends and holidays off, decent benefits, way less risk and uncertainty compared to many private sector jobs, and vacation time on top of the 14 or so weeks off when most of us are working. She spent a lot of that free time the first few years taking classes and credits to max out her position on the pay structure. Now she uses some of the free time to contract at a private sector job.

From: HA/KS
18-Nov-17
Glunt, if it's such a great gig, why isn't she teaching?

Why are schools scrambling to find people to put in classrooms?

"Nationwide, teacher education enrollments dropped 35% between 2009 and 2014, the most recent year for which data are available, according to the Learning Policy Institute."

There are many advantages to being a teacher. Without them, I could not do it. This is my 39th year in education and I feel blessed and privileged to teach.

BTW, I got a raise this year. It is the first time since 1979 that I got a raise without changing jobs.

I also purchased a used car in 1979. It was 10 years old, had 130,000 miles on it and the raise I got that year would pay for it in something like 26 years. The raise I got this year would buy that car in about five years. Added: to get this raise, I took four more university classes at almost $1,000 each to keep my certification.

A typical news anchor is on screen for maybe 30 minutes per day. They have a support staff and somebody else is in charge of their audience's behavior.

A typical teacher is on stage 6.5 hours per day. They have no support staff, and are in charge of the behavior of a sometimes hostile audience with no real tools to use if the behaviors are inappropriate. It is not a picnic.

From: HA/KS
18-Nov-17
My wife just refreshed my memory. The 1979 raise would pay for that car in 110 years.

From: Glunt@work
18-Nov-17
Sorry, I didn't mean that she thinks teaching is a great gig. She has no desire to do it even though both her parents were teachers. She does think the schedule and pay scale (basically the same as hers) is pretty nice. A person has to want to teach for it to be a good fit for them. Like many jobs, if its your calling, the bad stuff is tolerable and the good stuff is great. If its not your calling, the bad stuff can be unbearable and the good stuff often isn't enough to fix that. She has a couple degrees and some advanced licensing for her position.

From: petedrummond
18-Nov-17
My teachers sure didnt look like that one so i have no dog in the fight.

From: HA/KS
18-Nov-17
Now it makes more sense, Glunt. I have known teachers that were not worth half of what they were paid, and some that were worth far more than anyone could pay them.

From: Owl
18-Nov-17
Teaching is a calling and if one isn't called, it will stink for all of those involved. As for the OP, in a morally relativistic (secular) world, I can muster no objection.

From: elkmtngear
18-Nov-17
I agree with KPC, it's like shooting deaths, they are down almost half or more what they were 20 years ago, but every one of them get's politicized and sensationalized, so the general public senses "epidemic" .

What was once just local news, is now instantly National News.

From: AZOnecam
18-Nov-17
Quailhunter, in all seriousness, I did say "IF" it were male teachers... My wife is a teacher at a private Catholic school, my mom was a teacher on an Apache reservation until she retired, my two best friends are school principals - one at the school my wife teaches at and the other at the school my youngest son attends.

If what I said was perceived as a generalization, I apologize. I have a lot of respect for teachers. Just not those who sleep with their students, lol.

18-Nov-17
“ I have a lot of respect for teachers. Just not those who sleep with their students” .

Especially the home schooled ones.

From: TD
18-Nov-17
I must have been part of the problem...... I hit on about a third of the female teachers I had from about the 6th grade on..... obviously they had much higher moral standards than I had.... incredible willpower......

Yeah, I know...... double standards.... guilty as charged. Highly charged actually.....

Honestly one female science teacher in high school (who I didn't hit on) married one of my female classmates (who was the science teachers aide) not long after graduation, after the classmate had a legal sex change. That was likely in 1975? Not too much new under the sun, but that was pretty different to say the least. Pretty small high school too. I don't know if she continued to teach there or if they packed up and moved on.

Strange things happen when you put enough highly charged rascals in a small cage.....

From: K Cummings
19-Nov-17
Henry:

Let me first say that I have the utmost respect for quality teachers...period. I have the utmost respect for quality workers of all kinds, whether they are teachers, accountants, garbage collectors, lawn service workers, or physicians.

What I have a problem with is the notion that they are compensated any less than their equally educated counterparts. Granted, certain areas lag behind others, but that is the same for every vocation.

My daughter will graduate in the spring with a BS degree (with honors) in finance. If she chooses to stay in our local area, she will do so knowing that she will make a fraction of what she could make in other areas and even at that, her potential for advancement will be equally limited.

My wife has a Bachelors degree in accounting and she does not make what the attached chart indicates the average teacher makes for her years of experience. Nobody guarantees her raises every year, cost of living adjustments, or bonuses. If it's in the budget, they get them, and if it isn't, they don't. Add to that the fact that her benefits, both in terms of vacation, medical, retirement, pension, etc., are nowhere near what the average teacher has here in MI. Why does she work where she does when I'm sure she could get a better gig elsewhere? It's simple. She likes it. She likes the company, the people she works with, and we like the area in which we live.

At the end of the day, it's all about priorities.

KPC

From: K Cummings
19-Nov-17

K Cummings's embedded Photo
K Cummings's embedded Photo

K Cummings's Link
Forgot the link and chart, sorry.

KPC

From: Pat Lefemine
19-Nov-17

Sorry, couldn't help myself...

From: Quailhunter
19-Nov-17
AZ, no offense taken. Pat, that’s good stuff... I should have watched South Park more often.

From: Salagi
19-Nov-17
"Nobody guarantees her raises every year, cost of living adjustments, or bonuses"

I got a raise 2 years ago, it was the first raise in 8 years. The state gave us a cost of living adjustment one time. Health insurance premiums went up almost exactly the same amount that year.. We did get a $750 bonus this year for Christmas, 30% of that disappeared in tax withholding. And I don't make nearly what your chart shows. My youngest daughter got a BS in business management a few years ago, stayed in Northwest Arkansas and started out making more than I do. I'm proud of her.

I took a pay cut 18 years ago to leave my job as a clerk in a hardware store and go back into teaching. From the money angle, sometimes I regret it. From the paperwork angle I definitely regret it, but when one of My Kids comes back gives me a hug and says thanks, it's all good.

From: HA/KS
19-Nov-17
"when one of My Kids comes back gives me a hug and says thanks, it's all good." If you are not in it for the kids, you shouldn't be there.

I have a friend who got married young. Her and her husband both wanted to be teachers but they could not afford to both go to school at the same time. They decided she would get her degree and start teaching and then he would go to school to be a teacher. He got a job driving for UPS.

She went to school to be a teacher. She got a job in one of the highest paying districts in the state and took extra classes to move up in salary as fast as possible. She never caught up in salary with her UPS driver husband even though she ended up teaching at a university. He drove for UPS until he retired, saved tens of thousands in school costs, and has a better retirement than hers.

BTW, she didn't complain about her pay, just knew that she didn't make as much as he did. He also had a somewhat strenuous job that was far more physically demanding, but hers was far more stressful.

From: K Cummings
19-Nov-17
Salagi:

I wasn't suggesting you got all those things either, I was just saying that those things aren't a given in the private sector either.

During the financial crisis on 08, my wife and everyone else at her plant (salary and hourly) took a voluntary 5% cut in pay, in addition to a suspension of their 401k match just so no layoffs would be necessary. They have since got it all back and more, but the point was, they decided to all give up a little so no one would have to lose it all.

The point is, life is full of choices. We all make the ones that we feel are best for our ourselves, our families and our communities. For some those decisions revolve around dollars, for others is staying by family, for other's is job fulfillment, and for others it might be any one of a hundred different things.

KPC

From: Glunt@work
19-Nov-17
I considered being a teacher but I couldn't convince them to start Summer vacation on the last full weekend in August (first day of elk season). Being off all of Sept and October in the West would be amazing.

My teacher friends who are passionate about stuff a guy can do in the Summer would need to be offered way more than they make teaching to give it up.

From: HA/KS
19-Nov-17
Glunt, school districts in ski towns in Colorado went to a 4 day week so they could attract teachers. Ski bums would get several people together to share the price of housing so they could ski three days a week and teach four.

20-Nov-17
my son's fiancé is getting her masters in education teaching at disadvantaged school district in rural NC. I'm pretty proud of her and she makes pretty decent dough for just getting out of college last year. Between the two of them they live far better than I was able to when I graduated college 30 years ago.

From: Bob H in NH
20-Nov-17
My son is a math teacher in a private school, that comes with some great benefits, smaller classes, motivated kids, parents who care (in general).

It comes with some major lacks: retirement, health care, and salary, he teaches full time, coaches soccer in fall, track in the spring and is doing 80% of the athletic director role. He doesn't get $30K in total. He's planning to move to public schools after this year, will probably get a $10K raise

From: rdohn
20-Nov-17
Wow some of the teacher salaries listed here are not even close to my School District in western Pa. A friend I hunt with makes $95,000 per year as a Gym Teacher. Another friend is a second grade teacher and his Salary is $90,000 per year and complains about it. I guess Pa teachers striking more than all the other states pays off. Our local Police make less than half of what the Teachers make. The Catholic private schools provide the best education in my opinion and they are paid around $30,000

From: brunse
20-Nov-17
High school teaching should be a second career. Teachers should have 20 years of working experience in order to share it with the youth who are getting ready to enter the working world.

From: bad karma
20-Nov-17
I have a friend who is retiring from practicing law, ex-cop as well, and will be substitute teacher. With his life experience, those kids will get a "beyond the books" education, just as I'm sure our own Henry can provide.

From: HA/KS
20-Nov-17
"High school teaching should be a second career. Teachers should have 20 years of working experience in order to share it with the youth who are getting ready to enter the working world."

Not a bad idea!

You would have to raise beginning salaries quite a bit to attract the right kind of people to leave a career at a time when they should be hitting their best salary years. It would also be great if you could find a way to filter out the losers who are getting out of what they are doing to teach because they aren't cutting the mustard in the real world.

I am glad that I had a few years of experience before I got into the classroom.

From: HA/KS
20-Nov-17

HA/KS's Link
Link is a neat story about a school employee finding a way to get new shoes for students.

A former student is a teacher in this school and all of her students got shoes.

From: Salagi
20-Nov-17
"High school teaching should be a second career. Teachers should have 20 years of working experience in order to share it with the youth who are getting ready to enter the working world."

When I graduated college, it was the first year there had ever been a surplus of ag teachers in the state of Missouri. I ended up sitting out for about 15 years before reentering in the middle of the year (yeah, the school was desperate so what?). Even though I look back and think I could have retired by now and told them to chunk all the paperwork that interferes with educating the children, there is no doubt in my mind at all that the time in "the real world" made me a better teacher.

From: HA/KS
20-Nov-17
Good for you, Salagi. If done correctly, teaching IS service and worth any sacrifices.

From: Mint
21-Nov-17
All my friends that are teachers think the profession has been ruined by the unions. It completely and utterly destroys morale and the drive to be a good teacher with al the stupid union rules. One got so fed up she quit her teachers job on Long island making over a $100K and moved down to Virginia and took a pay cut but she is very happy. She was teaching three classes a day in NY and now teaches 5 classes.

21-Nov-17
I have always thought that a teacher should make 100k...if they are good at it. I can still remember the name of every teacher that made a big difference in my education. I have done my best to reach out to all of them over the years and let them know how they inspired me.

From: K Cummings
21-Nov-17
If I'm being honest, I had some really GREAT teachers over the years but in terms of the people who had the most impact on my life, none of them would make the top ten.

KPC

From: Mint
21-Nov-17
I was pretty good in school getting B's and A's and a few C's but never had any teacher make a difference. I remember when my Father was dying and I went from getting an A to an F in the third quarter and asking the teacher if I could do some extra work to not get an F but a D and she said no. Now employers and bosses they were a big difference in my life.

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