Carbon Express Arrows
The Elephant in the Room...
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Contributors to this thread:
Gray Ghost 21-Nov-17
JTV 21-Nov-17
elkmtngear 21-Nov-17
JTV 21-Nov-17
Bowfreak 21-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 21-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 21-Nov-17
NvaGvUp 21-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 21-Nov-17
JTV 21-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 21-Nov-17
NvaGvUp 21-Nov-17
Atheist 21-Nov-17
Trax 21-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 21-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 21-Nov-17
Solo 21-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 21-Nov-17
JTV 21-Nov-17
Solo 21-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 21-Nov-17
70lbdraw 21-Nov-17
Solo 21-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 21-Nov-17
Solo 21-Nov-17
Pat Lefemine 21-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 21-Nov-17
Mad dog 21-Nov-17
TD 21-Nov-17
Huntcell 22-Nov-17
tonyo6302 22-Nov-17
Mint 22-Nov-17
elkmtngear 22-Nov-17
tobinsghost 22-Nov-17
JTV 22-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 22-Nov-17
Trax 22-Nov-17
gflight 22-Nov-17
Sixby 23-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 28-Nov-17
bigeasygator 28-Nov-17
Sage Buffalo 28-Nov-17
Trax 28-Nov-17
brunse 28-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 28-Nov-17
BowSniper 28-Nov-17
bigeasygator 28-Nov-17
Grey Ghost 08-Dec-17
Trax 08-Dec-17
From: Gray Ghost
21-Nov-17
It was announced 5 days ago that Trump's administration had lifted Obama's ban on importing sport-hunted trophies of elephants from Africa. That decision was praised by the NRA and SCI.

Now, Trump appears to be back-peddling on that decision due to pressure from the anti-hunting crowd . He even called trophy elephant hunting a "horror show".

Is Trump a friend to hunters, or not?

Matt

From: JTV
21-Nov-17
Dont know .......yet ....

From: elkmtngear
21-Nov-17
Don Jr. is certainly our friend. Check out Pat's Bowsite Interview with him if you get the chance, very impressive.

I'm hoping he can get through to his Dad on this issue, most of us here (should) know the value of sport hunting revenue when it comes to managing African game.

From: JTV
21-Nov-17
even IF he does allow the current non-import regs stand, it wont effect me one bit ... now IF he does something against management of a specie here, that would be a whole different story..... which I dont see happening ...

From: Bowfreak
21-Nov-17
Guys....Trump is a populist on many things and only has a few deep rooted personal beliefs. With something like this, he gets his finger and holds it into the air to guage his stance. Truth be told he doesn't care.

I'm not saying that is good I'm just saying it is what it is. For this reason he will be wrong on a lot of issues. That sucks with regard to elephant hunting.

From: Gray Ghost
21-Nov-17
"even IF he does allow the current non-import regs stand, it wont effect me one bit ... now IF he does something against management of a specie here, that would be a whole different story....."

So, as long as he doesn't affect *your* preferred type of hunting, you don't care? That's kind of selfish and short-sighted, don't you think?

Do you think sport-hunting revenues help or hurt managing elephants in Africa?

Matt

From: Fulldraw1972
21-Nov-17
I know he has talked about talking to Zinke before a decision is made. Hopefully Zinke will be the man of the hour for African conservation.

From: NvaGvUp
21-Nov-17
The money raised from hunting elephants gives the people of Africa a YUGE incentive to stop the poaching of elephants.

Note that the article from Reuters which I saw posted on MSM.com, calls the Center for Biological Diversity a 'conservation organization.'

They are no such thing!

What the CBD actually is, is a law firm which preys on well-intended, but gullible people to give them money, then sues state wildlife agencies over almost anything those agencies try to do to support conservation.

Just ask any state DFW/DFG/DNR agency what the CBD does for conservation and everyone of them will tell you,"Nothing."

If only it were limited to 'nothing,' because the CBD and like-minded organizations are, in fact, the enemies of conservation. Because of their never ending lawsuits, state agencies spend millions upon millions of dollars to hire their own legal teams to defend REAL conservation.

That's millions upon millions of dollars wasted which could otherwise be spent on actual conservation!

From: Gray Ghost
21-Nov-17
Kyle,

And how do you think Trump sides on that issue?

Matt

From: JTV
21-Nov-17
GG, dont even try that crap.... I'M FOR HUNTING and MANAGING the critters ..... one of my best friends has been there multiple times, he's wrote a book on his adventures, he does all my taxidermy work, we've been friends since JR. High and I see all his mounts almost every week... hell, he has Giraffes, Cape Buffalo, Elephant heads and tusks, Lions, and tons of plains game in his house he's killed there.... I'd love to go and kill a tusker with a double rifle, but it aint gonna happen, I dont have that kind of cash... I grew up reading Capstick and the Man Eaters of Kumaon.... I hope he does rescind the import ban, but if he dosnt, it wont effect me, other than knowing there are AR activists cheering and that in itself pisses me off ..

From: Gray Ghost
21-Nov-17
"I hope he does rescind the import ban, but if he dosnt, it wont effect me..."

Thanks for confirming you don't care about hunting policy that doesn't affect you.

Now, I'll wait for others with a less selfish and short-sighted opinion to respond.

Matt

From: NvaGvUp
21-Nov-17
Matt,

"And how do you think Trump sides on that issue?"

Trump reversed Obama's ban, did he not?

Until that changes, I say "Good on him!"

From: Atheist
21-Nov-17
The point being thrown out there is that repealing the ban will actually save the elephants. Except no one has said how. How does killing more elephants, importing their carcasses or parts of it help them? We know their numbers are shrinking. That’s an indisputable truth. We know their meat is not for eating, but those tusks are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. As wards of the earth, and as sportsman, we owe these animals a chance to survive. Not everything should be hunted to the point of extinction.

From: Trax
21-Nov-17
Hunted to the point of extinction? Elephants are threatened nowhere because of hunting. They are threatened because of poaching and habitat loss. Leave it to a blind sheep liberal to confuse poaching and hunting. In some areas elephants need to be controlled and hunting allows for proper herd management and brings much needed resources to the native population.

From: Gray Ghost
21-Nov-17
"Trump reversed Obama's ban, did he not?"

Not from the reports I'm reading. His Fish and Wildlife Department made that decision. Now he's back-peddling on that decision.

I guess time will tell.

Matt

From: Gray Ghost
21-Nov-17
Please don't respond to the trolls on my thread, it only encourages them.

Thanks,

Matt

From: Solo
21-Nov-17
GG, I hear ya. But why choose to go right off and condemn the guy for something not settled yet?

Besides, do you really suspect that Trump is ever, ever going to come after our hunting rights or access to our precious hunting lands? Heck, Trump has already exhibited himself as the strongest ally of the 2nd, plus he's expanded our hunting access.

From: Gray Ghost
21-Nov-17
Solo,

These are Trump's words:

"Big-game trophy decision will be announced next week but will be very hard pressed to change my mind that this horror show in any way helps conservation of Elephants or any other animal."

Does that sound like a man who hasn't made up his mind?

Matt

From: JTV
21-Nov-17
GG, your full of crap and you know it, trying to twist crap around like you always do... your as big a douche as 'theist... even more so in oh so many ways...

let me look back prior to the Obama administration putting the ban in place.....nope, didnt effect me then....let me look back after the ban on imports... didnt effect me then either, other than realizing it was a huge mistake for his POS administration to do so and a detriment to the locals and managing of a great specie, and for those waiting to get their ivories back in this country...... ....

now, all that being said, and as I stated, I want and would like the ban rescinded, it is good for the African locals where managed hunting takes place, and its good for the Elephant populations and the protections it affords from poachers...

From: Solo
21-Nov-17
"Does that sound like a man who hasn't made up his mind?"

GG, it might or it might not. To me, it sounds more like a man under pressure, who wants to do the right thing.

From: Gray Ghost
21-Nov-17
To me, it sounds more like a man under pressure..."

If I'm undecided on an issue, I don't call it a "horror show", pressure or not. You're mileage may vary.

Matt

From: 70lbdraw
21-Nov-17
One of the first things that needs to be done is to explain the difference between legal managed hunting, and poaching, to the thick headed fools that think with emotion rather than common sense and reality!

From: Solo
21-Nov-17
"I don't call it a "horror show", pressure or not."

I wouldn't either. But I suspect that some New Yawka's do. Kinda like a 'NYC jive-talk'. I'm figurin' it out....

You gotta problem with somebody's 'jive' GG??? Looks like you need another lesson... ;^)

From: Gray Ghost
21-Nov-17
But I suspect that some New Yawka's do. Kinda like a 'NYC jive-talk'. I'm figurin' it out....

In case you missed it, here's what Trump tweeted to the world of hunters:

"Big-game trophy decision will be announced next week but will be very hard pressed to change my mind that this horror show in any way helps conservation of Elephants or any other animal."

That not only implies conservation efforts for elephants are a horror show, but so are those efforts for all animals.

My original question remains...Is Trump a friend to hunters?

Matt

From: Solo
21-Nov-17
I understand, GG. You can't get over that. That's cool.....

Great angle though. You could probably become a millionaire as an MSM reporter....if you were younger. lol ... ;^)

From: Pat Lefemine
21-Nov-17
I’m not sure he doesn’t mean the exact opposite. That the current import bans are a horror show and do nothing for conservation. If that’s what he meant, I agree.

From: Fulldraw1972
21-Nov-17
GG , I agree what Trump posted is not what hunters or conservationist want to here. However I think there is a method to the madness of that tweet we just don’t know it yet. Or at least I am hoping so.

I can’t help but think of a few hard decisions Trump has made so far. He lets out that he is changing the policy. Then let’s out he isn’t. But in the end he has changed the policy. Let’s hope this corse of action holds threw with elephant conservation.

From: Mad dog
21-Nov-17
Like drug & gun runners in this country...whether it's legalized or not, poaching will continue. Those countries are incorrigibly corrupt. Mad dog

From: TD
21-Nov-17
Some are twisting themselves into pretzels here so as not to go against some thing trump said/tweeted. Good grief..... if he's wrong on this he's wrong. Not a hard thing to cough up.....

I think Bowfreak nailed it. Trump doesn't really care two chits about it. Very few things he really does. I think he went with his advisers facts and economic truths instead of anti hunter's unicorn farts initially.... then his female and metro-sexual family "advisors" got his ear.

Hopefully the facts and truth will win out.

From: Huntcell
22-Nov-17
No elephants more likely no polar bears.

Come Don Jr. talk to Papa.

From: tonyo6302
22-Nov-17
Solo X 2 !

.. ..

.. ..

I find it full of folly that a guy who started a thread on baiting deer is trying to give others grief on their stance on elephant hunting.

LOL !

From: Mint
22-Nov-17
Hopefully Don Jr can educate his Father on trophy hunting because it seems he is very ill informed.

From: elkmtngear
22-Nov-17
For any other idiot lurking leftists that believe anything that emanates from Atheist ("We know their meat is not for eating") :

From: tobinsghost
22-Nov-17
Fulldraw X2!

From: JTV
22-Nov-17
Hey Pat... dont YOU have some pull with Don Jr. ... you do have his phone number dont you ... call him .....

From: Gray Ghost
22-Nov-17

Gray Ghost's Link
I don't think there's any confusion over what Trump meant with his "horror show" tweet.

In 2012, when pics of his sons posing with big game trophies circulated on twitter, Trump said, "Old story, one of which I publicly disapproved. My sons love hunting, I don't."

Is Trump a friend to hunters, or not?

Matt

From: Trax
22-Nov-17
I don't like placating liberals but OK I'll play your game and answer your question.

Clearly Trump is a friend to hunters. Is he perfect, I don't expect that. He also SAYS a lot of things. What he has done so far is what matters, and he's been great. President Trump will continue to defend and protect the 2nd Amendment, is that friendly to hunters? That's where it begins and ends. His sons are avid hunters especially jr., nothing will change there. The Justice and judges he has placed so far are all the proof I need. We'll see what he DOES on this issue, you would have preferred Hilda or OBOZO for hunters I take it?

From: gflight
22-Nov-17
Atheist is obviously not a hunter.

Others here would turn in their bow while making excuses for Trump.

Far kin sad the ignorance shown on this thread....

From: Sixby
23-Nov-17
Hard one here. I really admire elephants and do not want to see them killed. That is not an anti hunting stance though and to suggest that is to be of the tude that anyone that opposes what I or you want , everyone must agree or be anti hunting. For instance High fence. Whales , Gun vs Bow, Trad vs compound, Compound vs., Xbows., Rifle vs, Pistol or black powder. Flintlock vs caps. Anyway there is division here. I accept that but many will not. I am against killing elephants but realize the necessity of control. If it is properly regulated I see no reason that money should not be generated for the F and G division of the countrys. I also see no reason that the trophy should not be allowed.

God bless, Steve

From: Gray Ghost
28-Nov-17
On November 19, Trump tweeted:

"Big-game trophy decision will be announced next week but will be very hard pressed to change my mind that this horror show in any way helps conservation of Elephants or any other animal."

It is now November 28, and there has been no announcement. Perhaps one of you with a Twitter account could remind him.

Matt

From: bigeasygator
28-Nov-17

bigeasygator's Link
Matt, I think the announcement is sitting on a desk with all the voter fraud data that was supposed to be presented to us.

CNN had a very thoughtful op-ed from a scientist working for a project under WildCRU — for those that don’t remember those were the Cecil the Lion research team. I didn’t see it posted on this thread and figured it was worth sharing. It’s always encouraging to me when the scientists of the world get it and weigh in.

From: Sage Buffalo
28-Nov-17
Africa wildlife is lost. It's only a matter of time that the magical numbers that wandered that continent will be remembered like the bison of the American plains.

It's sad.

From: Trax
28-Nov-17
Trump says a lot of things. Some to his credit, some by design, and some accomplish the opposite. I did not support him in the primary but voted for him and could not be more happy with what he has accomplished so far and the direction he is taking the country. His way of doing things certainly isn't politically correct and isn't always even constructive, but it's slowly working in the long haul. As I said in my former post, it is very clear he is pro 2nd Amendment and pro hunting. Very clear that is. Now of course those that would prefer the likes of Hilda the leftist skank or OBOZO the America hating race pimp are always going to try to plant the seed of doubt. They're leftists, it's what they do!

From: brunse
28-Nov-17
GG

Trump is a friend to many people who hunt. Certainly not all. When it comes to generalizations then the answer is yes he is much more friendly than the vast majority of progressives. Although, hunters as a group are likely much more independent in their ideology compared to the run of the mill partisan hacks of either party. Many in the hunting community have been recently conditioned to stand in one party in order to protect what they love the most. It is understandable as well as unfortunate that in order to protect ones ideology in a one area that others are not spoken of with the same honesty. Hunting, healthcare, theology, equality and political correctness are few areas that come to mind. It sucks that social media tends to seperate folks into us and them to further the agenda of the powers that be, while they couldn’t care less about those of us that work to support .... everything.

So to answer your question broadly. Yes.

Do you spend much time pursuing wild animals with the intent to kill them? Is trump good for you?

From: Gray Ghost
28-Nov-17
"Do you spend much time pursuing wild animals with the intent to kill them?

Far more time than I probably should.

Is trump good for you?"

With respect to hunting, I'm not sure, yet. He has stated he doesn't like hunting. And he implied that conservation efforts for elephants, or any other animal, are a "horror show".

He also caved to anit-hunting pressure and shelved the decision to rescind Obama's ban on elephant trophy imports. Now, he's tardy on his own stated schedule for making that decision.

So, my question remains.

Matt

From: BowSniper
28-Nov-17
SERIOUS QUESTION - under current rules are they talking about importing elephant heads for taxidermy, or the genuine ivory tusks, or both? The news articles are crap only talking about "trophies" without that important distinction. I was under the impression that the ivory tusks were banned for many years, and modern elephant taxidermy used faux tusks. Can someone who knows for sure please clarify???

From: bigeasygator
28-Nov-17
As I understand it, it is all banned right now (hide, tusks, skull, you name it). Lifting the ban would allow any and all parts of the trophy to be imported, including tusks. As I also understand it, the importation of tusks for commercial purposes was, and will remain, illegal.

From: Grey Ghost
08-Dec-17
It's December 8, and the elephant is still in the room.

I realize this isn't the most important decision Trump has on his plate, but he shouldn't tweet a schedule to the world, then ignore it.

Matt

From: Trax
08-Dec-17
This is how Trump operates. He hadn't said much about moving our embassy to Jerusalem until now. Last I heard him talk about it was during the election process or shortly after. He may not be perfect on the issue in the end, but from what we've seen so far he will be very pro 2nd Amendment and pro hunting overall. Bet on it. The elephant is sitting in the park smoking a cigar.

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