Moultrie Products
I wonder who is next?
Community
Contributors to this thread:
K Cummings 29-Nov-17
Woods Walker 29-Nov-17
K Cummings 29-Nov-17
Spike Bull 29-Nov-17
Pat Lefemine 29-Nov-17
sleepyhunter 29-Nov-17
NvaGvUp 29-Nov-17
Nick Muche 29-Nov-17
Atheist 29-Nov-17
HDE 29-Nov-17
jdee 29-Nov-17
JTV 29-Nov-17
JL 29-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 29-Nov-17
HDE 29-Nov-17
Bowbender 29-Nov-17
Hunting5555 29-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 29-Nov-17
'Ike' (Phone) 29-Nov-17
Bentstick81 29-Nov-17
Rocky 29-Nov-17
DL 29-Nov-17
HDE 29-Nov-17
TD 29-Nov-17
bad karma 29-Nov-17
Dirk Diggler 29-Nov-17
tonyo6302 29-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 29-Nov-17
Hunting5555 29-Nov-17
Sixby 29-Nov-17
DL 29-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 29-Nov-17
HDE 29-Nov-17
Woods Walker 29-Nov-17
DL 29-Nov-17
Woods Walker 29-Nov-17
sleepyhunter 29-Nov-17
Pig Doc 29-Nov-17
K Cummings 29-Nov-17
Bentstick81 29-Nov-17
JTV 29-Nov-17
Dirk Diggler 29-Nov-17
Annony Mouse 29-Nov-17
Glunt@work 29-Nov-17
DL 29-Nov-17
trublucolo 29-Nov-17
Shuteye 29-Nov-17
slade 29-Nov-17
JTV 30-Nov-17
Spike Bull 30-Nov-17
K Cummings 30-Nov-17
HA/KS 30-Nov-17
K Cummings 30-Nov-17
BowSniper 30-Nov-17
'Ike' (Phone) 30-Nov-17
Bou'bound 01-Dec-17
Owl 01-Dec-17
K Cummings 01-Dec-17
Woods Walker 01-Dec-17
Bowfreak 01-Dec-17
Gray Ghost 01-Dec-17
HA/KS 01-Dec-17
Woods Walker 01-Dec-17
K Cummings 01-Dec-17
Gray Ghost 01-Dec-17
K Cummings 01-Dec-17
Amoebus 01-Dec-17
Gray Ghost 01-Dec-17
Whitey 01-Dec-17
BowSniper 01-Dec-17
Dirk Diggler 01-Dec-17
BowSniper 01-Dec-17
Gray Ghost 01-Dec-17
K Cummings 01-Dec-17
BowSniper 01-Dec-17
Gray Ghost 01-Dec-17
BowSniper 01-Dec-17
K Cummings 01-Dec-17
Grey Ghost 01-Dec-17
gflight 01-Dec-17
Sage Buffalo 01-Dec-17
K Cummings 01-Dec-17
K Cummings 01-Dec-17
BowSniper 01-Dec-17
Gray Ghost 01-Dec-17
K Cummings 01-Dec-17
K Cummings 01-Dec-17
Gray Ghost 01-Dec-17
K Cummings 01-Dec-17
Gray Ghost 01-Dec-17
BowSniper 01-Dec-17
K Cummings 01-Dec-17
Franzen 01-Dec-17
Gray Ghost 01-Dec-17
Bou'bound 02-Dec-17
Spike Bull 02-Dec-17
K Cummings 02-Dec-17
Gray Ghost 02-Dec-17
bad karma 02-Dec-17
Glunt@work 02-Dec-17
70lbdraw 02-Dec-17
K Cummings 02-Dec-17
Spike Bull 02-Dec-17
K Cummings 02-Dec-17
BowSniper 02-Dec-17
Annony Mouse 04-Dec-17
From: K Cummings
29-Nov-17

K Cummings's Link
Well, well, well...

"NBC has fired its leading morning news anchor Matt Lauer over sexual harassment allegations, the network’s president for news said in a memo to staff on Wednesday."

...looks like another case of terminal hypocrisy.

KPC

From: Woods Walker
29-Nov-17
Did he deny the allegations? Other than someone's words is there any actual proof? I have a problem with someone being fired for this if they deny it and there's no other proof or other circumstances.

This is a slippery slope here folks.

From: K Cummings
29-Nov-17
I don't know woods. I'm guessing (and it's only a guess) that it's pretty rock solid if NBC sent a personality like him packing.

As I've said before, I don't like where this is all heading either. I have a feeling it's about to get even crazier.

What I DO like is the exposure of hypocrites.

KPC

29-Nov-17
Whereas setting up and recording someone in a compromising situation is a long employed tactic of the swamp, I expect to see many more of these examples. That may or may not have happened to any of these guys so far and there is no doubt that many are simply bad people who do not need any set up or prompting.

However, the existance of hypocrisy in this matter is widespread.

From: Pat Lefemine
29-Nov-17
Got to love Trumps tweet in response. The guy cracks me up.

From: sleepyhunter
29-Nov-17
The best thing to do keep your hands in your pockets, look down say good morning stay away from women best you can if possible. Talk business only.

From: NvaGvUp
29-Nov-17
Pat,

What did Trump Tweet?

From: Nick Muche
29-Nov-17
"What did Trump Tweet?"

"Wow, Matt Lauer was just fired from NBC for “inappropriate sexual behavior in the workplace.” But when will the top executives at NBC & Comcast be fired for putting out so much Fake News. Check out Andy Lack’s past!"

From: Atheist
29-Nov-17
Trump has reduced the Oval Office in stature and honor. Why would he even give an opinion on someone’s sexual accusations when he has his own share of accusers? His choices are bizarre but I guess that’s what you voted for!

29-Nov-17
you know that they say.....power corrupts absolutely. I can't help but think that coercing women into sex must have been working for all these guys........

From: HDE
29-Nov-17
No - obama disgraced and embarrassed the office of the chief executive of the nation, not Trump.

From: jdee
29-Nov-17
Is sexual harassment retroactive ? If it is the king of sexual harassment Bill Clinton should be in a federal pen for life !!!

From: JTV
29-Nov-17
again, 'theist proves he is a liar ... what PROOF of those allegations do you have against Trump 'theist..... come on what PROOF ?? .... scamper away little girl, scamper away ....

unless there is proof, I still believe in innocent until proven guilty for anyone, Moore is a perfect example, and he's is 5 points up in a recent poll there ........ there must have been some back up for what NBC did ....

From: JL
29-Nov-17
Matty's sexual behavior is old news within the NBC circles.

From: Gray Ghost
29-Nov-17
"Is sexual harassment retroactive ? If it is the king of sexual harassment Bill Clinton should be in a federal pen for life !!!"

Sexual harassment isn't necessarily a crime. Sexual abuse or assault is. That's why sexual harassment accusations are thrown around so liberally, and they've become a political tool.

Matt

From: HDE
29-Nov-17
Nope, sexual harassment is abuse. Verbal abuse is a real thing...

From: Bowbender
29-Nov-17

Bowbender's Link
Who's next?

Garrison Keillor. Seems to be a pattern with libs....

From: Hunting5555
29-Nov-17
HDE, the problem is who gets to define exactly what sexual harassment is! Grant at a certain point there is no doubt, but who gets to define the "grey areas".

Some would say that telling a lady at work that she looks beautiful today would be harassment. While most would say it was merely a compliment. Should someone get fired over such a benign comment?

So who gets to define it..........

From: Fulldraw1972
29-Nov-17
“Seems to be a pattern with libs....”

We can’t expect anything different from them when they idolize the Clintons. One is flat scary and the other led by example.

29-Nov-17
Bill Clinton started it....And the dominos continue to fall!

From: Bentstick81
29-Nov-17
atheist. You are a FRAUD. You are talking about Stature and Honor. Goes to show how fraud you really are, Mr. Fake Registration.

From: Rocky
29-Nov-17
...but Clinton was a man of stature and honor. That is the difference or should I say the benchmark to which all presidents are "measured". ;-) Liberals are some seriously deranged individuals. Gelding comes to mind.

The Rock

The Rock

From: DL
29-Nov-17
There has been talk of Lauer being overly friendly to women for years. Trump opened a big question about the nbc’s ceo Andrew Lack and his past. Uh Oh, more heads to roll. Don’t forget the Kennedy Clan.

From: HDE
29-Nov-17
Hunting - normally the one who gets to define it is the one filing the complaint. Impossible to dismiss or decide emotion for someone...

From: TD
29-Nov-17
Who'da thought this one little plug was the one to pull to start draining the swamp...... it's gone from a trickle to a flushing noise in just a few months.....

Plenty of men in power play that game, left and right, many that are neither. But the left.... the sanctimonious hypocrisy on display is much more entertaining..... much more satisfying to watch them spin in on fire.... trailing smoke......

But beyond that.... yes, care must be taken these cases are not just opportunists or the easily offended. All are individual cases.... no matter if the person is really scum or not. From all I have read so far.... it's been pretty clear cut, not simple "misunderstandings". We shall see how things, um, spin out.......

From: bad karma
29-Nov-17
Garrison Keillor, of Prairie Home Companion fame, is now out of work, as a result of this newfound concern.

From: Dirk Diggler
29-Nov-17
I got 10 to 1 odds the next is a lefty. That crowd would be better off just hanging out with street walkers.

From: tonyo6302
29-Nov-17
OK, my scenario is, first, I am not a supervisor, and have no control over anyone.

.. ..

.. ..

Second, whenever I notice at work, that a female has lost a lot of weight, I cannot help myself. I usually say, "Gosh, you have lost a ton of weight."

Nine times out of ten, the female I have just spoken to, will jump up from behind her desk, hug me, and plant a big ole kiss on my cheek.

I hug her back, but do not kiss her back.

Just how vulnerable and I to a harrassment claim? I am serious here. I never even gave it a thought until now.

Seriously, how vulnerable am I ?

From: Gray Ghost
29-Nov-17
Your screwed, Tonyo. Might as well pack your bags, now. ;-)

I once asked a co-worker when her baby was due. Problem was, she wasn't pregnant. Oops!!

Matt

From: Hunting5555
29-Nov-17
HDE, I agree with you it is, and that is the problem. Some people would be offended by saying "HI". These people need to be told to sit down, shut up, get real and do their job.....

This is a real thing that happened to me over 10 years ago.

I was a supervisor of an accounting department that was all women. My boss was a woman but she was gone this day. We had a young lady show up for work with a top that was sooooo low cut that it left very little to the imagination. You knew exactly what she had......... It was causing a real brew haha in the office with everyone talking about it. And truthfully, it was not appropriate for a business office. There is low cut, then there is "check these babies out!"

As her supervisor, I had to call her in to tell her that it wasn't appropriate attire for the office. Needless to say, I had another management lady set in with me to tell her. She didn't take it well at all, but she didn't file a complaint of any type!!!

I'd hate to think I had to do that same thing today! I'd have to send her to HR to have them handle it and then something would be put in her file. And it wasn't anything that needed reported to her file, just told not to wear it again....

I'm just glad I now work in an office all by my lonesome!!!!!!

From: Sixby
29-Nov-17
Sounds like Lauer had a button under his desk that locked the door and the women could not get out of his office. That sounds a lot like unlawful imprisonment or kidnapping to me even if he did not rape them. More coming out on this .

God bless, Steve

From: DL
29-Nov-17
Tony you are safe unless you piss one of them off. Then nothing will save you. It’s also a one street. Try and say women have acted inappropriate towards a man. Most likely you will hear you should be flattered or why did you lead her on. My wife and I were just discussing this. She was in a office doing work and a maile man brought the mail to one of the other women in the front office. She over heard him telling her that was sexual harassment to be at work dressed the way she was and left. And Yes, she and another gal there dressed horribly. It was an office at a truck repair facility and they dressed like hookers. At one shop I worked at we did work on a woman’s car that was a guard at Folsom Prison. She had a boob job and then wore uniforms that were probably two size too small. Buttons were ready to pop of her shirt and this woman was a prison guard at a male prison. Should have been fired

From: Gray Ghost
29-Nov-17
How did our society become so asexual? Are burkas next?

Thank God I'm past the days of being young, dumb, and full of...well...you know. I pity young males, today.

Matt

From: HDE
29-Nov-17
Hunting, by having another [woman] in there with you was smart - very smart.

From: Woods Walker
29-Nov-17
"Trump has reduced the Oval Office in stature and honor. "

Huh???? Trump??? You conveniently forgot about Bill Clinton's oval office blue dress soiling sessions and Obama's 8 solid years of lying outright to us. But then again you ARE a Democrat, which right there proves you have no memory, sense of honesty/truth, or concept of integrity.

From: DL
29-Nov-17
JFK had an open door policy to women. Of course he was a democrat and the news media never mentioned a thing.

From: Woods Walker
29-Nov-17
As a man I will notice women until the day I die. Fortunately my parents taught me manners and to be a gentleman so I keep my mouth shut and my hands at my side. What you eyes see does NOT have to be conveyed into words or worse, actions. Just enjoy the view!!!

From: sleepyhunter
29-Nov-17
""Just how vulnerable and I to a harrassment claim? I am serious here. I never even gave it a thought until now.""

I believe it's fine to be cordial and polite. I'd shy away from being personal. Commenting about a woman's weight could turn into a problem, even if you meant to be complimentary. I've known several men over the years get pulled into the front office for saying too much to the ladies on company time.

From: Pig Doc
29-Nov-17
Lauer is an arrogant liberal prick. It's common knowledge he was banging his coworker Natalie Morales. When he interviewed Bill O'Reilly over his firing for sexual harassment I kept thinking and hoping Lauer was next. Score!

From: K Cummings
29-Nov-17
In the world we live in today, make doubly sure you don't compliment a woman on her penis.

KPC

From: Bentstick81
29-Nov-17
Wow KPC. I just about spit stuff all over my screen, on that one. LOL!

From: JTV
29-Nov-17
I would say Bill O'Reilly is grinning ear to ear after hearing the news on Lauer today ...

From: Dirk Diggler
29-Nov-17
“How did our society become so asexual? Are burkas next? Thank God I'm past the days of being young, dumb, and full of...well...you know. I pity young males, today.”

With all these accusations flying now days. It’s no wonder there are so many transgender people.

From: Annony Mouse
29-Nov-17

Annony Mouse's Link

From: Glunt@work
29-Nov-17
"Gosh, you have lost a ton of weight."

"Are you saying you think I weighed 2000 pounds more before I started Weight Watchers?"

"No, no, no just saying you look great"

"You are judging me on my looks?!"

"No, no, no just happy for you"

"Happy for me? Was something wrong when I weighed more?"

"No, no...ummm, ok yes. You were fat and cranky and now you are smiling and easy on the eyes."

"Did you honestly just say that?"

"Yep, if you are calling HR I might as well make it worth it."

From: DL
29-Nov-17
Your spot on Glunt. There is no way out except saying your transgender or some other confused gender. If you say your a straight male you are toast.

From: trublucolo
29-Nov-17
lol Glunt, spot on.

From: Shuteye
29-Nov-17
I was manager and had up to 200 people reporting to me. Plenty of women in the group. Most of the women were absolutely great and we go along fine. I picked one young woman that just carried mail to the offices. She used to come in my office lunch time because I would let her use my computer. In a short time she was an absolute genius on SAP that we were bringing on line. I promoted her and gave her a raise that was way above policy. It had to be sent to corporate headquarters for approval and it was approved. The vast majority of the other women greatly appreciated what I did and told me so. I think that is why they got along with me so well. BTW, the young lady ended up working with corporate headquarters and that did me a lot of good. I bet today that would not happen.

From: slade
29-Nov-17
-Lauer sent a gift of a dildo to a female staffer with a note explaining how he would like to use it on her.

Great find Mouse

From: JTV
30-Nov-17
well..... maybe she wasnt sure how to use it.... the note was a nice gesture ... :0(

30-Nov-17
Ya gotta love it when the snakes get bit!

From: K Cummings
30-Nov-17
Interesting quote from Garrison Keillor while speaking to the National Press Club in 1994:

"We should be careful though not to make the world so fine and good that you and I can't enjoy living in it," he said. "A world in which there is no sexual harassment at all is a world in which there will not be any flirtation."

There is a heck of a lot of truth in that statement.

Obviously there is difference between flirtation and sexual assault, but as it stands now, the difference between the two seems to by totally up to the interpretation of the "victim."

I seriously hope we can get a handle on this soon, or there are going to be a lot of good people fall to the accusations of some vindictive opportunists.

I agree with Matt (GG, not Lauer...LOL). Imagine trying to navigate this minefield during your dating years.

KPC

From: HA/KS
30-Nov-17
What did NBC know, and when did they know it?

30-Nov-17
I have to say that Lauer's arrogance is stunning. How could anyone think that's ok? Maybe he was going on the theory that if you send out enough "gifts" sooner or later you'll connect. Meanwhile all the chicks are telling everyone one they know what an f'ing creep he is.

From: K Cummings
30-Nov-17
I'm not sure what bothers me more. The things that he did, or his blatant hypocrisy.

It's one thing to do those things, but it's a whole other level of sleaziness to then act "holier than thou" when passing judgment on someone else for doing the exact same thing.

KPC

From: BowSniper
30-Nov-17
The auto door lock would be to keep anyone from unexpectedly walking in while he has his pants down. Not to keep anyone from leaving. Locks just don't work that way, even mag locks have a release button on exit side.

Did you read the most recent revelation that Lauer banged a girl until she passed out over his desk, and then had to call a nurse? A married lady. Sheeesh. They are both damaged goods.

30-Nov-17
Matt is a freak!

From: Bou'bound
01-Dec-17
Before long this is going to migrate from the mainstream into the hunting celebrity arena and there will be icons of the sport who's empires come crashing down around them. It is only a matter of time. It will be a sad day for hunting when the claims come out about inappropriate actions at hunting camp or in the cutting room of a TV show.

Families will be fractured and careers destroyed.

From: Owl
01-Dec-17
I hope this forest fire burns long enough to change the culture a bit. Naive, I know. However, our society needs to learn lessons about vesting esteem and power to those whom have not proven worthy, which is to say most everyone outside of the sphere of direct personal experience. And, yes, I would like to say the sanctimonious secular humanists openly bear the jagged mantle of moral relativism and idolatry.

From: K Cummings
01-Dec-17
"Families will be fractured and careers destroyed."

I suspect you are correct, no walk of life or profession is immune, nor should they be. Having said that, if the claims are legitimate, fractured families and ruined careers lay at the feet of the offender, not the victim that comes forward.

KPC

From: Woods Walker
01-Dec-17
Actions have consequences. So ACT accordingly.

From: Bowfreak
01-Dec-17
"Did you read the most recent revelation that Lauer banged a girl until she passed out over his desk, and then had to call a nurse? A married lady. Sheeesh. They are both damaged goods."

How in the world is this even possible????

From: Gray Ghost
01-Dec-17
Until we specifically define what is sexual harassment, and make it a crime, it will remain a tool for the weak and disgruntled to use against others.

Take the whore that past out on Lauers desk, for example. Was it consensual or forced sex? I'm reading she was separated from her husband at the time, and she willingly unclothed herself at Matt's request. I've known several women who have spread their legs to advance their careers. Should that be a crime, too?

What a mess.....

Matt

From: HA/KS
01-Dec-17

HA/KS's Link
A good read on how all of this is impacting and will impact justice.

From: Woods Walker
01-Dec-17
We have justice in this country? Could'a fooled me.

From: K Cummings
01-Dec-17
"Take the whore that past out on Lauers desk, for example. Was it consensual or forced sex? I'm reading she was separated from her husband at the time, and she willingly unclothed herself at Matt's request."

Wow, there is so much contained in these two sentences, I'm not sure where to start.

Things like "whore," "consensual," "willingly," and "at Matt's request."

You surprise me with this one Matt.

KPC

From: Gray Ghost
01-Dec-17
My point is, Kevin, none of us know what truly happened in that room, yet it's automatically assumed the women was a victim. Why?

Yes, it's disgusting behavior, and should never happen in the workplace. But, none of us know what the true intent of either party was at the time. Was the women's behavior equally wrong? We just don't know.

Matt

From: K Cummings
01-Dec-17
My point is, Kevin, none of us know what truly happened in that room, yet it's automatically assumed the women was a victim. Why?"

For the same reason you assumed she was a "whore," and that her actions were consensual and willing.

When a superior "requests" that a subordinate do something, especially when that person has the power that ML had within that organization, do they really have a choice? It takes an incredibly strong individual to potentially throw away everything they've worked for, just to say no to a sleazeball predator like ML.

Power and prestige demands a certain amount of restraint. Even if both parties seem to be willing.

Just curious Matt, are you the father of daughters?

KPC

From: Amoebus
01-Dec-17
Bow - "Did you read the most recent revelation that Lauer banged a girl until she passed out over his desk, and then had to call a nurse? A married lady. Sheeesh. They are both damaged goods." How in the world is this even possible????"

Fainting is usually a blood pressure issue. Not hard to see how sex can mess up the blood flow to the normal parts of the body (in this case, lack of blood to the brain caused at least 2 distinct reactions...).

From: Gray Ghost
01-Dec-17
Kevin,

No, I don't have daughters. But if I did, they would certainly know that no job is worth being sexually violated by a superior. Nor would they keep quiet at the time, only to play the victim card years afterwards.

Are you claiming women never use sex to advance their careers? I doubt you're that naive. I was wrong to assume this women is a "whore", but I think it's equally wrong to assume she was a victim. It goes both ways.

Matt

From: Whitey
01-Dec-17
The underlying theme is bigger , that everyone is a victim in the US nothing is anyone’s fault or responsibility. Hillary lost the election because of the Russians, NFL players act, dress and speak like gang bangers and but are victims because they should be treated like everyone else. White people are privileged if they are successful. Women are victims because they wear tops with thier boobs hanging out and short skirts with no underwear and a man looked at them too long.

From: BowSniper
01-Dec-17
The woman in this particular case was said to have opened her blouse at Lauer's request. To me that means she willingly accepted his overtures. And being married at the time, to me that makes her a slut, too.

If Lauer grabbed her without asking, if she had said no, if she had done nothing at all frozen in fear, I would have supported her story here. But at this point no. She undressed herself, she was on board. What if just to be safe, Lauer asked her to sign a note giving written consent? STILL not good enough in this current atmosphere, because she would say he was the boss and she felt forced to sign. When there is no possible way to defend yourself from guilt by any positive proactive action, the system has collapsed and we are all screwed.

Who hasn't dated someone at work at some point in their life? Heck, I've even had a girl blackout on rare occasions too. And technically we worked together (bartender and waitress back in the college days). It was just normal kids dating. Not the same as OJ and Nicole for God's sake!

From: Dirk Diggler
01-Dec-17
I retired from fishing in the company pond. To much drama for one man to handle.

From: BowSniper
01-Dec-17
"Retired" sounds like "used to do it but not any more".

From: Gray Ghost
01-Dec-17
"Heck, I've even had a girl blackout on rare occasions too."

Yep, me too, and in those cases it meant we both had just had a great time.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not defending Lauer. But, I'm also not blindly accepting the word of women who blow the whistle years after the alleged incidents.

Matt

From: K Cummings
01-Dec-17
For those who think that a person that unbottons their clothing when "asked" to do so implies consent, let me ask you this.

If ML had held a gun to her head and "asked" her to get undressed, she has the "choice" to say "no," correct?

Is "choosing" to say "no" and risking a bullet to the head really any different than "choosing" to say "no" and risking a bullet to one's livelihood?

Furthermore, when a superior "chooses" (demands) to have sexual relations with a subordinate, do they not also "choose" the possible ramifications of such actions?

KPC

From: BowSniper
01-Dec-17
A guy banging a cheating wife who appears to have consented and undressed herself.... is simply not the same as putting a gun to her head.

If no consent can ever be consent enough, I call foul on the whole system. If I were Lauer's attorney on this one, I would seek records for every other dalliance she had... how many other times she cheated (not every one is going to be her boss - and I am guessing there are more).

From: Gray Ghost
01-Dec-17
"Is "choosing" to say "no" and risking a bullet to the head really any different than "choosing" to say "no" and risking a bullet to one's livelihood?"

Umm, yes, it's completely different. Did you really ask that?

Matt

From: BowSniper
01-Dec-17
Not only DID he ask it... he will rephrase and ask the same thing a dozen more times until he can convince himself he is right.

From: K Cummings
01-Dec-17
"Did you really ask that?"

Yes, most definitely. You'd be surprised what you'd be willing to do, and the compromises you'd be willing to make, when you feel you have no other choice.

As I sit here today, I could confidently say I would never do a lot of things for money. But then again nobody with the power to take it away is hanging my livelihood over my head.

Did you really deny that possibility?

KPC

From: Grey Ghost
01-Dec-17
So you equate the threat of being murdered to the threat of being fired from a job?

I've never had a job that that was worth losing my self-respect for. YMMV.

Matt

From: gflight
01-Dec-17
Ask a Drill Sgt sometime what privates will do. The current court of public opinion is out of control. Women gaining even more leverage. Hell hath no fury....

From: Sage Buffalo
01-Dec-17
You guys haven't read the stories. He deserved what he got.

BTW If you have never been a C-level or an executive let me tell you that you can NOT have any relations with a woman if you are single from your organization without HR knowing. If you do you can be fired. If you are married and cheat on your spouse with a subordinate you will be fired in many Fortune 500 companies.

This is not about flirting or saying someone looks nice. This is about appearance and using your position to coerce.

From: K Cummings
01-Dec-17
"So you equate the threat of being murdered to the threat of being fired from a job?"

No, I equate two types of perceived desperation.

I have no idea what it's like to be in a position where I feel that someone might not just end my job, but my entire career if I don't succumb to their demands, AND they have the power to do it. The gun was just a metaphor, but I think you understand that.

On the flip side, someone who would wield that power over an underling, man or woman, for their own personal pleasure, is a special kind of sick.

KPC

From: K Cummings
01-Dec-17
Good post Sage. The idea that what ML did in any way compares to flirtation or saying the wrong thing to some crabby woman is just plain ignorant.

KPC

From: BowSniper
01-Dec-17
.....as I said.....

From: Gray Ghost
01-Dec-17
"No, I equate two types of perceived desperation."

For a women's perspective, I asked my wife if she, or anyone she knows, would allow a boss to sexually violate her for the sake of keeping her job. She looked at me like I was crazy.

Sorry, but the "perceived desperation" defense doesn't fly, Kevin. That's perhaps the most absurd thing I've ever seen you post. If a women doesn't perceive being sexually abused worse than being fired, she's got bigger problems than a sick boss.

Matt

From: K Cummings
01-Dec-17
Grow up BS.

When someone asks me a legitimate question, it deserves a legitimate answer.

"...he will rephrase and ask the same thing a dozen more times until he can convince himself he is right."

I don't have to convince myself I'm right. I know what I believe and unlike some others, if I wasn't already convinced, I wouldn't have posted it.

KPC

From: K Cummings
01-Dec-17
"Sorry, but the "perceived desperation" defense doesn't fly, Kevin. That's perhaps the most absurd thing I've ever seen you post. If a women doesn't perceive being sexually abused worse than being fired, she's got bigger problems than a sick boss."

Here we go with the hyperbole and feigned outrage again. You should know by now that I don't fall for that Matt.

My wife says the same thing...however she also says that she's never been in a position where she's had to prove it, in order to keep the lights on and food in her son's mouth.

One's perception is their reality Matt. I have no way of knowing what I would be capable of doing if it meant preventing something that I thought was bad enough...and if you are honest, neither do you. What I do know, it is that I would never wield that power over an underlings head for my own perverse pleasure.

KPC

From: Gray Ghost
01-Dec-17
"I have no way of knowing what I would be capable of doing if it meant preventing something that I thought was bad enough...and if you are honest, neither do you."

That's where you are wrong, Kevin. There is no situation in which I'd "perceive" getting fired from a job is worse than than getting sexually abused. Like I said, no job is worth losing my self-respect for, ever.

Matt

From: K Cummings
01-Dec-17
I don't think I would either Matt, but then again I don't know for sure. It's easy for me, a self employed person for over 35 years, to say what I would or would not do to keep a "job." But really, what the hell do I know? I've never had a "job" or been in a position (in my adult life anyway) where anyone has had that power over me.

I sincerely hope neither you or I have to prove it. And, I believe there is a special place in hell for those that would force anyone make that choice.

KPC

KPC

From: Gray Ghost
01-Dec-17
Kevin,

First you claimed the threat of taking a bullet to the head was the same as the threat of getting fired. Then you claimed that was just a metaphor, and what you meant is "perceived desperation" is the issue (whatever that means). Now, you're concocting some hypothetical situation that might justify being sexually abused over getting fired, while acknowledging you've never been in that situation and don't really know how you'd react. You've moved the goal post so many times, I don't know which end of the field to kick towards.

I do know how I would react, and I've stated so.

As for the "special place in hell", do you know for fact that the women in question was forced to make that choice? If so, do share your evidence. Is it possible she knew of ML's sick sexual behavior, and she went to his office intent on inciting it?

Matt

From: BowSniper
01-Dec-17
..... and exactly as I said KPC... sometimes your endless parsing of words and minutea really ruins any meaningful dialogue. It no longer becomes about the issue, but instead about some pretentious display of personal righteousness based on increasingly ridiculous and outrageous claims. But carry on. You know nothing else. Sheeesh.

From: K Cummings
01-Dec-17
"First you claimed the threat of taking a bullet to the head was the same as the threat of getting fired. Then you claimed that was just a metaphor..."

It most certainly was a metaphor, and if you can't see that, you are either being intellectually dishonest, or just plain ignorant.

What I said was quite clear:

"Is "choosing" to say "no" and risking a bullet to the head really any different than "choosing" to say "no" and risking a bullet to one's livelihood?

In order to believe that this was a literal comparison, you must also believe that you can somehow put a bullet through someone's "livelihood."

Nice try Matt, but I know exactly what I posted, what the intent was, and I suspect you do too. If you don't, I've been giving you too much credit. Either way, I'm not going to play your game. Having to continually answer your questions is really upsetting BowSniper.

KPC

From: Franzen
01-Dec-17
"...sometimes your endless parsing of words and minutea really ruins any meaningful dialogue. It no longer becomes about the issue, but instead about some pretentious display of personal righteousness based on increasingly ridiculous and outrageous claims. But carry on. You know nothing else. Sheeesh."

Ha. You don't see a pattern here do ya? Ever notice that whenever the guy gets called out he just keeps on posting and posting until the other person finds something better to do?

From: Gray Ghost
01-Dec-17
Oh, good grief, Kevin. You won't concede a point. I get it.

I'm not going to debate the meaning of your metaphor. You've made it clear that you assume the accuser was the victim in this case, without proof. Is that an example of the "critical thinking" that you preach about?

I've had the shoe on the other foot. I had an attractive "underling", as you would call her, try to solicit advances from me for personal career gains. I was flattered, and I could have handled it better, but I didn't do anything I'm ashamed of. When it became clear her tactics weren't going to work, I suddenly became the accused.

Sadly, men and women both use sex for selfish intents.

Matt

From: Bou'bound
02-Dec-17
where do you guys find the time?

02-Dec-17
Must be while their girl friends are passed out!!!!!!

From: K Cummings
02-Dec-17

K Cummings's Link
Something to consider in regard to why some of these "whores" might submit to unwanted sexual advances.

"She didn’t fight back

When people are mugged or robbed, they are not asked why they did not resist.

But in sexual assault cases, failure to resist can be one of the biggest sticking points for jurors. Often both sides acknowledge that a sex act occurred, and the question is whether it was consensual. Fighting back is viewed as an easy litmus test. But women are conditioned not to use violence.

Men and women both tend to compare a victim’s actions with what they think they themselves would have done in a similar situation, and research shows that their imagined response usually involves aggressive resistance — even when the attacker is larger and stronger. “In their heads, suddenly they know kung fu,” Ms. Valliere said.

Neurobiological research has shown that the so-called fight-or-flight response to danger would more accurately be called “fight, flight or freeze.” And even after that initial response, victims can be rendered involuntarily immobile, becoming either paralyzed or limp as a result of the brain and body’s protective response.

Even so, the victim faces scrutiny of her failure to resist, and of every decision she made before, during and after the ordeal. To contrast sexual assault with other types of crime, Ms. Valliere said, she often shows a photograph of the Boston Marathon bombing. “We never said to the victims, ‘Why were you in that marathon, why did you put yourself in that position, why didn’t you run faster, why didn’t you run slower?’

“But when it comes to a victim of interpersonal violence,” she added, “we think there’s a way they should act.”

KPC

From: Gray Ghost
02-Dec-17
Yawn. That still does nothing to prove the accuser was a victim in this case.

But, hey, she's had 16 years to piece together her story....it must be true.

Matt

From: bad karma
02-Dec-17
Having defended sexual assault cases, a significant percentage of them were false. And many were demonstrably false, not just cases that resulted in acquittals. Matt is right here.

From: Glunt@work
02-Dec-17
If we are boiling this down to basic instincts to judge the behavior of Matt and this woman, Matt might win. Nature is often not a gentle courtship.

We aren't animals of course. What matters is what really happened. That will be hard to ever know for sure. Matt got fired, that is not a surprise or out of line for anyone who is having sex at work unless you work at the Mustang Ranch. What we may never know is how we would judge the situation if we were a fly on the wall.

I have seen women and men do crazy things when they are desperate. Desperate to keep a job, desperate to get money, desperate to get revenge, desperate to win affection, desperate to get ahead, etc.

If we toss out being impartial and waiting for facts we aren't doing anyone any good. I've been in the workforce for a long time. I have seen bosses (male and female) use their position to get in bed with subordinates. I have also seen subordinates (male and female) use sex to influence the boss's decisions.

From: 70lbdraw
02-Dec-17
I find it ironic how liberal women scream about being equal to men, yet they refuse to protect themselves from the men they claim to be equal to. Anything to draw attention to their victimhood is the order of the day...regardless of their own personal morals.

From: K Cummings
02-Dec-17
You're right. The fact that Matt immediately and vigorously denied it proves it must be false.

Oh wait...

KPC

02-Dec-17
This horse has been totally converted to hamburg already!

From: K Cummings
02-Dec-17

From: BowSniper
02-Dec-17
In this one case at least it wasn't a matter of fighting back, or even freezing. What a terribly inaccurate and self-serving example! A married woman unbuttoned her own shirt and whipped out her cans when asked. Probably not the first time she ever did that either... just the most famous.

From: Annony Mouse
04-Dec-17
Obama mentor and founder of the modern Democrat proregressive left...!!!

Bill Ayers and gang rape

The current sex crimes dragnet sweeping across the country, pulling in celebrities, media millionaires, and politicians, has yet to reel in a high-profile professor from the hallowed halls of academia

Will Bill Ayers be the first?

In a 2006 Frontpagemag article entitled "Remembering a Sixties Terrorist," a woman named Donna Ron recounted what she described as "the defining event of my life."

As a sophomore at the University of Michigan in 1965, Ron was caught up in the antiwar movement when she met and dated Ayers. Two months after meeting Ayers, Ron alleges that he locked her in his apartment and told her she couldn't leave until she had sex with his roommate and his brother.

From FrontPageMag (warning graphic language):

Bill Ayers' apartment was around the corner and a half a block away from the sorority house… Sometimes I would stop by... What I do recall is that when I was getting ready to leave Ayers told me I couldn't go until I slept with his roommate and his brother.

At first I thought Ayers was joking. I got up; and went to the door. He moved quickly to block me at the doorway. He locked the door and put the chain on it. I went to the couch and sat down and told him that I had no intention of having sex with his roommate and his brother or him. He said that I had no choice but to do as he said if I wanted to get out of there. He claimed that I wouldn't sleep with his married roommate because he was black – that I was a bigot.

I felt trapped. I had to get out of the situation I was in and because he was so effective a guilt-tripper, I also felt I had to prove to him that I wasn't a bigot. I got up from the couch and walked over to the black roommate's bed and put myself on it and he [f-----] me. I went totally out of my body. I floated beside myself on the outside and above the bed looking at this black stranger [f---] me angrily while I hated myself.

After that I had to go lie down on Bill Ayer's bed for his brother to [s----] me. Rick Ayers was a decent person, unlike his brother, and couldn't go through with it He started and stopped and let me go. I also thought I had to let Bill [s----] me but at that point he unbolted the door and I left.

I remember going back to the sorority house and talking to my best girlfriend and telling her what had happened. But there were no words yet to describe it. There was no term "date rape" yet in our political vocabulary...

I was a mess and felt it was my fault for letting it happen. I was ashamed. Back home at the end of the semester, I got my parents to send me to a psychiatrist.

In 2008, Ron repeated the details of her ordeal to WND, adding, "I was terrified. People underestimate terrorism by psychological intimidation. I felt like I was being held prisoner."

It's been almost ten years since Ron alleged that Ayers set up a gang-rape in his apartment. At the time, her story was confined to a few alternative conservative websites (ironic, considering that Ron was an Obama supporter and committed socialist).

Today, not only are women with similar narratives being heard, but the men they accuse are being held accountable.

The avalanche of accusations in recent weeks, beginning with Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein, suggests that Ron's horrific encounter with Ayers could resurface. To date, Ayers's only response to Ron's accusation came in 2001. After discovering that the terrorist had gone on to fame and fortune at the University of Illinois at Chicago, Ron emailed him about what happened at his apartment in 1965. Ayers said he "did not remember her."

Ron, who has resided in Israel for many years, may not be aware that the tide has turned here in the U.S., but the timing couldn't be more perfect to subject the terrorist to the same scrutiny as other outed alleged sexual predators. As a co-founder of the Weather Underground, Ayers boasted about the group's willingness to engage in all kinds of deviant sex. His admission makes Donna's story even more credible. Not only that, but her narrative and Ayers's sordid history suggest the real possibility that there may be more of Ayers's victims out there. Now the question is, after aggressively targeting other millionaire males, many of whom have lost their jobs, when will the mainstream media go after Bill Ayers?

  • Sitka Gear