Jordan Peterson is the smartest man in the room. He is particularly good at destroying feminism, Islam, atheism, snowflakes, compelled speech and pretty much any other illogical construct out there. I encourage everyone but especially men to give the fellow time. There is no voice more eloquently searing than JP on many of the issues that plague society.
For humanity, including men, the "responsibility is to incarnate the spirit of the logos" in bearing the burdens of the world and "competently" moving society in a positive direction. The man has an enviable grasp of the fundamental truths that confound the masses.
With what did you disagree?
Further, he claims the highest form of masculinity, God, has been so maligned as to destroy the purpose of men. Rest easy, if Phil was a clean-shaven Canadian PHD psychoanalyst, he'd be this dude. Well, except Phil is much more fundamentally Christian.
Keep the heat up Jordan!
While I agree and also find it funny (the Big Bear comment about the sweater), that view of masculinity is part of the problem. I am a "sack swinging, gun totin, animal killing, bearded human" and as such am viewed as a man. That happens to be my personality anyway, but I have come to the understanding that my neighbor who is a "cardigan wearing, animal loving, softspoken, no killin and no facial hair dude", who loves his family and works hard to provide for them is no less a man or no less masculine.
Appearance and personality do not make us masculine, embracing our responsibilities do.
I don't have a beard.... and 5 minutes of listening to that guy is all I need to hear to know he ain't my type of people.... I don't hate him for it...
But if you see him as masculine.... that's cool....
I agree with, "he ain't my type of people". Have a great day
What I took away from the entire thing was pretty much contained in the first couple sentences.
" ...at a deep level, the west has lost faith in the idea of masculinity."
"...the divine symbol of masculinity has been obliterated, so then what do you expect? What's going to happen? That means masculinity is going to become weak."
Makes total sense to me. In our society, we seem to want to do everything we can to discourage masculinity, and the idea of the strong male figure. Then we wonder why males don't grow up to be strong and accept responsibility?
Well duh... That doesn't seem like rocket science to me.
I think he's spot on.
JP is not a complicated man but his speech is as dense as Hemingway's prose. He can't be heard casually. The listener has to pay attention and engage. He's posted hundreds of videos lampooning the same nonsense we do but with ruthless acumen. That makes him reviled in all the same circles that hold us in contempt.
I think I'll just bow out of this one while I'm behind......
Pass the Grey Poupon.....
From the comments however, it seems he is a light in the loafers intellectual who has such vague and foggy prose that people only pretend to understand him. Also all the time he spent had one basic point that could have been communicated in 30 seconds....
How about this BB:
Hey dudes, God's plan (i.e. logos) was for the male of the species to be the dominant figure. Because of the way western society has attempted to feminize males, and the fact that men no longer aspire to be what God had intended, the more f***ed up and weak society is going to be.
Does that make sense now?
Beards or clothes make the man? Hmm. Ya know what I hate with this Feminism and every Girl today? They don't WANT a hairy chested big bearded rough & tumble fellow. They want a pretty boy. My oldest Son is what I'd call a pretty boy but yet a Marine.
Want to know what I REALLY hate? All these girls shaving their cooters. For the love of God I had 9 Children and 6 were Girls. If I was interested in hairless pie I just have to remember the Life of diaper changing 9 Children. I want my Women to be natural. Natural boobs and LET IT GROW. No, I'm not into hairy armpits or legs and a trim is OK; but shaving the entire Beaver? WTH? Pet the furry wall. Dam I miss the 70's.
Nice interpretation, KPC. Loved it.
To me, intellectualism includes the ability to communicate in a way that everyone understands what you are saying. This guy fails in that regard.
To me, true intellect is being able to say the most while using the fewest words.
I know you remember the classic Jim Johnson and Genejockey debates. IMO, both were very intellectual, but what separated Jim was is ability to dissect Doug's wordy prose in a single sentence or two.
I have to admit, Peterson's Mr. Rodgers sweater was an initial turn-off for me. But, his inability to make a succinct and rather simple point was even more bothersome. I "got" what he was saying about 4 minutes before he stopped talking.
No disrespect meant to you, my friend.
But, this is a trustworthy crowd. If it ain't there for everyone, it ain't there for everyone. Maybe, I spent too much time enveloped in those skunky clouds at the NYE Marcus King concert.:)
Hmm...I guess I'll have to endure the video again, when I'm in a less impatient and more tolerant mood.
Sometimes a overly pretentious presentation masks the content, for me.
"How do you summarize why men are in crisis?"
That question in and of itself could make for an hours long presentation.
Even so, in less than two minutes, he defined the problem, opined as to the cause as well as the ramifications of the problem, explained why men were agreeing with his assessment of the cause and effect, and proceeded to explain why it should be rejected for the betterment of society.
That's a lot to cover in two minutes. I'd say he was fairly brief and definitely to the point.
Then he moves on to a completely different question where he deals mostly with the religious and ideological aspects of the loss of masculinity in western culture.
If I'm bothered by anything, it's his Canadian accent.
I don't feel like I'm in crisis, do you?
Not me in particular, but men in western society in general, yes. No question about it.
Like walking buffalo wrote above, he has been scorching Canadian snowflakes for a while.
I’m sorry for my cynicism, but being lectured on masculinity by a guy who looks and acts like Mr. Rodgers is just comical to me.
He seems like a bright and articulate metrosexual. But I’m with BB on this one, I’d rather have a root canal than share a campfire with him. Maybe I’ve been living in the sticks too long.
I guess it all comes down to what cocoon you live in. In my cocoon, men don't have a masculine crisis. They relish responsibility, seek it, and it defines them. The only assault on their manhood comes from an occasional kick from ornery livestock.
I could poll every single male I know well, and I doubt any of them would claim to be in "crisis" over their masculinity. So this topic only inspires a mild degree of curiosity and humor in me, but little else.
Again, no disrespect intended. I just haven't observed the "crisis" that is presumed to exist by you, KPC, and Mr. Peterson.
I find and offer no offense. We can certainly amicably disagree. Otherwise, we're fairly useless to each other.
Someone once asked: "What is masculinity? Masculinity is having a romance novel burning inside you and then paying three sailor's to beat it out of you with steel pipes".
Honestly, who and where are these men in "crisis" that you speak of? Do any of your male friends suffer from it. How about any of your male relatives? Work associates?
Or how about the fake lumberjack look the guys in the city are putting on now.... pressed flannel shirt, jeans neatly rolled up, Manicured beard.... Never left the pavement in their life......
Men of my ilk are not "in crisis"individually. Not how you are implying. That's not my terminology, btw. That's the phrasing of the interviewer. I would say the concept of masculinity is gravely endangered and the consequences of that extend beyond men themselves. Look at the 2nd video I posted.
To frame it most relevantly to you and me, though, to a great extent, the social drive to denigrate masculinity is fundamentally causal to the loss of hunting seasons and opportunities. Think about it, one of the most persistent arguments against hunting is that it is no more than an illicit expression of vestigial "manhood."
Thanks for the discussion, Owl. It was a pleasure, as always.
I go to work.... and worked my butt off to provide for my family.... I hunt. I fish... I eat what I kill.
I have been the same man my entire adult life. I'm stepping out of this discussion because I don't even get the point of it.
It's akin to saying that I don't think anti-hunters present a problem to our culture because I'm not one, there aren't any in my circle of friends, and very few hang out here in the Bowsite.
Anyone who says that males (in general) are stepping up and being the responsible, dominant, leaders of their families, like they have in previous generations, simply doesn't get out much, or is in serous denial.
If I may, the attacks on hunting have nothing to do with a value shift on masculinity, IMO. It has everything to do with the commercialization of hunting.
The average Joe can no longer have a quality hunting experience. Therefore, interest in hunting has decreased. Commoner advocates have become disenchanted and mostly silent in the political arena, giving rise and a louder voice to anti-hunters.
As usual, money and greed is the root of most evil...IMO
Nonsense. Don't project your limited scope on everyone. It's disingenuous.
I disagree...at least in the state where I live. In the state of MI, we have as many hunting opportunities for "the average Joe" as we did 50 years ago. We have more deer than we did 50 years ago, and we have just as much or more public land as we did 50 years ago. Even so, we are hemorrhaging hunters. Not because of lack of opportunity, but because we are losing them to other (often less "masculine") pursuits.
-Kevin, the data certainly supports this. Certain demographics now reveal fatherless households above 70%. That's men failing at precisely what Peterson outlines in the first video. In other content, Peterson explores the "Pan Myth" wherein males really don't grow up and assume their role. That bears out in the same "crisis" of fatherless households.
If people don't have the opportunity to enjoy an activity, they're not going to advocate for the privileged few who do. It has nothing to do with masculinity values, IMO.
I'd love to continue this conversation over a camp fire, a fine wild game meal, and a beverage of your choice. Hopefully I'll have that privilege some day.
OK, I'm out for good this time.
Students, teachers, administrators, social rights lobbyists, policy advisors and politicians.
His attire, verbiage, mannerisms and probably his cologne too, are tailored to the environment he hunts in.
Consider this to be his camouflage.
If he spoke and dressed like most of 'us', he wouldn't get close to the snow pile.
Men certainly shot themselves in the foot over the ages through lack of courage by not policing their own sufficiently enough and allowing rogues to rape and pillage - and to dominate women brutally instead of dealing with them tenderly, ala Islam. What we're dealing with now is the back lash to tyrants abusing their physical size in patriarchal societies when men should be behaving as men should, with responsibility, restraint, and wisdom through shrewdness based on the gift we have in being able to separate emotion from decision making.
Men are not better at everything than women, just as women are not better at everything then men. Throughout history, we've failed to realize this as a group and we're paying for it now.
Men's great failing has been to follow the type A leader/tyrant instead of bash his skull or slip a dagger into his back, depending on if you're a Big Bear or Jordan Peterson-physical type man. And too many men were too complacent in allowing these tyrants to ruin humanity. For every 100 men (and women) born, there are a few bad ones, and there's no fixing them. And those people have dominated men and women to everyone's detriment and too many men have been complacent with a culture that allows this behavior because it's easier and requires neither responsibility nor courage.
What we're dealing with now is the pendulum swing the other way where men are being marginalized whereas women were marginalized throughout history. This will be to the detriment of all humans. We are what we are for a reason. No one is better, we're just different. And we all have our roles in functional society.
As is usual in life, somewhere between the extremes (tyrant patriarchs and radical man-hating feminists) is what works best for all and is how humanity developed and functioned prior to modern civilization.
Have you read any books such as Iron John, Fire in the Belly, "King, Warrior, Magician, Lover", HE, or books by Scott Peck, Bradshaw, Tannen etc....
An ongoing mantra of the left is that everyone is a victim, with a singular carve-out for white men. A large group of the female population has embraced this chant.
While there may be a number of grievances put forth by this movement, there also comes a theme that is particularly dangerous: the feminist attack on masculinity. This is derived not only from feminists; it comes from the left in general.
There has emerged a war on masculinity. Why? Because masculine men are harder to control under tyrannical socialism. The modern beta male, on the other hand, craves socialism. This is why the left has branded masculinity as toxic: it stands as a roadblock to their endgame.
Leftists blame, of all things, masculinity for the recent spate of sexual harassment scandals. For eons, masculinity has been considered a natural and even required trait of being male, but it is now apparently the reason for deviancy. Who knew?
The glaring problem with this argument is that the men who are typically being accused of such transgressions are anything but masculine. Sexual harassment is bipartisan; both liberal and conservative men in positions of power seem to harass women with aplomb. But where is this referenced masculinity? Harvey Weinstein? Al Franken? Louis CK? I posit that a consistent theme among most accused harassers is a complete lack of masculinity. I would go so far as to suggest that the lack of masculinity is a contributing factor to this problem.
Most of these accused public figures are modern men – perhaps not quite beta males, but certainly closer to Obama's now infamous Pajama Boy than they are to John Wayne. Are men who display a lack of masculinity less likely to victimize women? Obviously not. But the left does not let reason or rationality interfere with an opportunity to degrade social decency or further its collectivist agenda.
The feminist hatred for masculinity is only another tool in the toolbox of communism. Masculinity tends to make a man individualistic. Individualistic men are capitalists, not communists. They are men who cherish individual liberty, and they rely on themselves rather than on government. Self-reliance is a four-letter word for leftists, and masculine men are generally self-reliant. Beta males like Pajama Boy rely on government, and such modern men, devoid of any semblance of masculinity, are ideal for leftist indoctrination.
Were the frontiersmen communists or capitalists? How about the cowboys? How about the Navy SEALs or Army Rangers? Sure, the press may find in the military a few Che Guevara t-shirt-wearing idiots and parade them all over the place, but I am willing to bet that the majority of SEAL Team 6 comprises masculine capitalists.
What games do young boys play? They pretend to be cowboys. They pretend to be soldiers. They don't pretend to be soviet textile workers slaving under Stalin's system. They don't pretend to be entitled Millennial brats who congregate at Starbucks and talk about the wonders of socialism, either. Most boys hit the ground embracing masculinity. Some maintain it, but many have it berated out of them by the weak society they walk in or by their leftist parents.
Masculinity leads a man to seek to better himself in many regards, while collectivism thrives on mediocrity. Collectivism in this country is sought by the lazy who don't want to work but feel entitled to free handouts of all kinds. Unfortunately, collectivism is also touted by many who are successful, such as middle-class suburbanites who feel guilty for what they have achieved through hard work while others have not been so fortunate. Yet, when suggesting that the redistribution effort begins with their own 401(k)s, seldom will you find volunteers. Collectivism is also cheered on by certain billionaire hypocrites who made their wealth through capitalism yet now tout the wonders of socialist systems. The irony.
While these social groups appear quite different, there is a common trait among the men in all of them: no masculinity to be found. Be it the lanky hipster in skinny jeans or the billionaire hypocrite, imposing is not one of their descriptions. The billionaire may travel everywhere with a fleet of personal security, but he has no strength of body and apparently little strength of character. Are there plenty of physically weak men who are capitalists? Absolutely. Capitalism is not dependent on machismo or charisma. However, few alphas are socialist, and self-reliance is a collectivism-killer. That is why the left finds masculinity toxic.
The denigration of masculinity is high on the leftist agenda. The pushing of acceptance of the "transgender" movement is the latest machination in this crusade. This fosters further blurring of male masculinity and female femininity, and the plight of a small group of people who wrestle with this issue has become a politically polarizing topic – a tool maximized by the left. Masculinity is maligned as a trait of the bigot, not as a desirable trait among men, as it once was. The goal is to foster an entirely androgynous society that makes no distinction between male and female. This breeds a culture more easily shaped by the almighty state.
The left's war on masculinity should come as no surprise. The cultures in history that have resisted oppressive regimes in the past have celebrated masculinity rather than demeaned it.
There is an often quoted poem that sums up a society's life cycle: "hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, weak men create hard times." The abundance of weak men in our society is ushering in those hard times, and it is celebrated by the left every step of the way.
The eradication of masculinity from our society will ultimately result in the elimination of all resistance to tyranny. Freedom-loving males know this, and women who believe in individual capability rather than dependence on the government also know it. Remember: subjugation of all to a collectivist regime is the ultimate goal, and branding masculinity as toxic is one of many pieces in the game.
IdyllwildArcher, Well stated, sir....
slade, No I haven't read any of those titles but I'll look them up. Thanks
Actually, given your line of work, you may want to know all you can about the Pan Myth and the Man-Child phenomenon. You deal with them everyday so we do not.
I agree that there are way too many sissified "men" in the world today. Maybe I was just always too busy living, but it seemed one day I looked around and suddenly thought, "Where the heck did all these bearded lady-boys come from?"
I've spoken to a few women, of various ages, who also think that many men now are worthless, effeminate wastes of space. Thank goodness for the ladies that still dig a man's man : )
"You get to pick your sacrifice, that's all. You don't get to not make one."
"You can go to university to not be something instead of going to university to be something. It's pleasure island, and the price you pay for it is debt..."
That is some good stuff right there. Thanks for posting the second video.
Idyllwild....I agree in part. slade, ........ a good read.
My father spoke to me about what a man does and doesn't do, but like most kids a lot of that went in one ear and out the other. What DID embed in me while growing up, although I didn't realize until I was much older, was that I did become the kind of man I am because of my father's actions. He not only talked about it, he LIVED it.
He was of the WWII generation and grew up poor during the Great Depression. He was married to my mother for 60 years and he worked his a&& off in the trade he learned (sheet metal) to enable his wife and two sons to have a decent home to live in and college educations. His WORD was his HONOR. He used to tell me....."If you SAY that you will do something then you DO It, even if you die with it."
One time when I was a teenager I did something stupid and I thought I was going to be punished severely for it, but all he did was look at me and say, "I'm really disappointed in you. I guess you're not the person I thought you were." And walked out of the room. THAT was the harshest punishment I could ever get, and made me realize all he'd tried to teach me by just being him.
My point is that THIS is what "masculinity" is , and with fewer and fewer men having this kind of example set before them so they can learn it, it will only get worse.
Years later when I learned of the so-called "Cowboy Code Of Conduct", I realized that going by those rules, then I was raised by a "cowboy", even though we were in New Jersey, he didn't wear a hat (other than a hard hat), and never rode a horse.
THANK YOU DAD!!!!
I also pity and frankly cannot comprehend (and am thankful that I don't have to) a man growing up and NOT having this kind of foundation in his life. He's been robbed of a VERY substantial part of his life.