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Mad dog

They just don't like the way it sounds more than anything else. Feelings got hurt I guess...?

Let it rot.

Btw, there's another country on that island, the Dominican Republic, and they don't have the problems Haiti does.

That's not it at all. What people are protesting is suggesting that we should close off the American Dream to people from poor parts of the world. I have ZERO problem with the use of the adjective "shithole." If he would have said something to the effect of "why should we continue to allow individuals from impoverished countries the opportunity to emigrate to this country" I still would have as big of a problem with it, as would people who are protesting it. The crude language is really just icing on the cake.

What would Martin Luther King Jr. say right now. Would he approve of his words?

Atheist, what would MLK say of black youth fighting and killing each other because of rival gangs? It's happening everyday in Chicago, Detroit, LA. I'd like to see it stopped.

Atheist...First, you tell us the true definition of a racist.

"Libertarians believe that people should be able to travel freely as long as they are peaceful. We welcome immigrants who come seeking a better life. The vast majority of immigrants are very peaceful and highly productive.

Indeed, the United States is a country of immigrants, of all backgrounds and walks of life…some families have just been here for more generations than others. Newcomers bring great vitality to our society.

A truly free market requires the free movement of people, not just products and ideas.

Whether they are from India or Mexico, whether they have advanced degrees or very little education, immigrants have one great thing in common: they bravely left their familiar surroundings in search of a better life. Many are fleeing extreme poverty and violence and are searching for a free and safe place to try to build their lives. We respect and admire their courage and are proud that they see the United States as a place of freedom, stability, and prosperity.

Of course, if someone has a record of violence, credible plans for violence, or acts violently, then Libertarians support blocking their entry, deporting, and/or prosecuting and imprisoning them, depending on the offense."

I posted the following on the other ongoing thread about the President's comments and immigration, and I'm gonna post here as well.

A lot of you treat today’s immigrant make-up like it is something unique and the flavor of immigration today is different than the wave that brought many of our descendants over. You like to say that the immigrants were different then – they were hardworkers, they were willing to contribute, and assimilate, etc etc. Well, they weren’t viewed that way back then by a very large part of the population, and the arguments that were used against them over 100 years ago sound no different than the arguments now against the latest wave of immigrants. The excerpt below was written in 1896 by the President of MIT, Francis A Walker, who was an economist and LT. Col. in the Union Army and represents the anti-immigrant sentiment of the day. The refrains are the same, and you can replace the references to Italians, Russians, and Jews with Haitians, Mexicans, and Nigerians and it would sound no different than it does today. Had this sentiment won out back then, most of us wouldn’t be here as it’s safe to say someone in our family tree would likely never have touched American soil. It’s a long read, and I’ve linked to his whole essay if you care to read it all.

“I have spoken of three changes in the national condition, all subjective, which greatly affect our capability of dealing with a large and tumultuous immigration. There is a fourth, which is objective. It concerns the character of the foreigners now resorting to our shores. Fifty, even thirty years ago, there was a rightful presumption regarding the average immigrant that he was among the most enterprising, thrifty, alert, adventurous, and courageous of the community from which he came. It required no small energy, prudence, forethought, and pains to conduct the inquiries relating to his migration, to accumulate the necessary means, and to find his way across the Atlantic. To-day the presumption is completely reversed. So thoroughly has the continent of Europe been crossed by railways, so effectively has the business of emigration there been exploited, so much have the rates of railroad fares and ocean passage been reduced, that it is now among the least thrifty and prosperous members of any European community that the emigration agent finds his best recruiting-ground. The care and pains required have been reduced to a minimum; while the agent of the Red Star Line or the White Star Line is everywhere at hand, to suggest migration to those who are not getting on well at home. The intending emigrants are looked after from the moment they are locked into the cars in their native villages until they stretch themselves upon the floors of the buildings on Ellis Island, in New York. Illustrations of the ease and facility with which this Pipe Line Immigration is now carried on might be given in profusion. So broad and smooth is the channel, there is no reason why every foul and stagnant pool of population in Europe, which no breath of intellectual or industrial life has stirred for ages, should not be decanted upon our soil. Hard times here may momentarily check the flow; but it will not be permanently stopped so long as any difference of economic level exists between our population and that of the most degraded communities abroad.

But it is not alone that the presumption regarding the immigrant of today is so widely different from that which existed regarding the immigrant of thirty or fifty years ago. The immigrant of the former time came almost exclusively from western and northern Europe. We have now tapped great reservoirs of population then almost unknown to the passenger lists of our arriving vessels. Only a short time ago, the immigrants from southern Italy, Hungary, Austria, and Russia together made up hardly more than one per cent of our immigration. To-day the proportion has risen to something like forty per cent, and threatens soon to become fifty or sixty per cent, or even more. The entrance into our political, social, and industrial life of such vast masses of peasantry, degraded below our utmost conceptions, is a matter which no intelligent patriot can look upon without the gravest apprehension and alarm. These people have no history behind them which is of a nature to give encouragement. They have none of the inherited instincts and tendencies which made it comparatively easy to deal with the immigration of the olden time. They are beaten men from beaten races; representing the worst failures in the struggle for existence. Centuries are against them, as centuries were on the side of those who formerly came to us. They have none of the ideas and aptitudes which fit men to take up readily and easily the problem of self-care and self-government, such as belong to those who are descended from the tribes that met under the oak-trees of old Germany to make laws and choose chieftains.”

Their habits of life, again, are of the most revolting kind. Read the description given by Mr. Riis of the police driving from the garbage dumps the miserable beings who try to burrow in those depths of unutterable filth and slime in order that they may eat and sleep there! Was it in cement like this that the foundations of our republic were laid? What effects must be produced upon our social standards, and upon the ambitions and aspirations of our people, by a contact so foul and loathsome? The influence upon the American rate of wages of a competition like this cannot fail to be injurious and even disastrous. Already it has been seriously felt in the tobacco manufacture, in the clothing trade, and in many forms of mining industry; and unless this access of vast numbers of unskilled workmen of the lowest type, in a market already fully supplied with labor, shall be checked, it cannot fail to go on from bad to worse, in breaking down the standard which has been maintained with so much care and at so much cost. The competition of paupers is far more telling and more killing than the competition of pauper-made goods. Degraded labor in the slums of foreign cities may be prejudicial to intelligent, ambitious, self-respecting labor here; but it does not threaten half so much evil as does degraded labor in the garrets of our native cities.

Finally, the present situation is most menacing to our peace and political, safety. In all the social and industrial disorders of this country since 1877, the foreign elements have proved themselves the ready tools of demagogues in defying the law, in destroying property, and in working violence. A learned clergyman who mingled with the socialistic mob which, two years ago, threatened the State House and the governor of Massachusetts, told me that during the entire disturbance he heard no word spoken in any language which he knew, — either in English, in German, or in French. There may be those who can contemplate the addition to our population of vast numbers of persons having no inherited instincts of self-government and respect for law; knowing no restraint upon their own passions but the club of the policeman or the bayonet of the soldier; forming communities, by the tens of thousands, in which only foreign tongues are spoken, and into which can steal no influence from our free institutions and from popular discussion. But I confess to being far less optimistic. I have conversed with one of the highest officers of the United States army and with one of the highest officers of the civil government regarding the state of affairs which existed during the summer of 1894; and the revelations they made of facts not generally known, going to show how the ship of state grazed along its whole side upon the rocks, were enough to appall the most sanguine American, the most hearty believer in free government. Have we the right to expose the republic to any increase of the dangers from this source which now so manifestly threaten our peace and safety?

For it is never to be forgotten that self-defense is the first law of nature and of nations. If that man who careth not for his own household is worse than an infidel, the nation which permits its institutions to be endangered by any cause which can fairly be removed is guilty not less in Christian than in natural law. Charity begins at home; and while the people of the United States have gladly offered an asylum to millions upon millions of the distressed and unfortunate of other lands and climes, they have no right to carry their hospitality one step beyond the line where American institutions, the American rate of wages, the American standard of living, are brought into serious peril. All the good the United States could do by offering indiscriminate hospitality to a few millions more of European peasants, whose places at home will, within another generation, be filled by others as miserable as themselves, would not compensate for any permanent injury done to our republic. Our highest duty to charity and to humanity is to make this great experiment, here, of free laws and educated labor, the most triumphant success that can possibly be attained. In this way we shall do far more for Europe than by allowing its city slums and its vast stagnant reservoirs of degraded peasantry to be drained off upon our soil. Within the decade between 1880 and 1890 five and a quarter millions of foreigners entered our ports! No nation in human history ever undertook to deal with such masses of alien population. That man must be a sentimentalist and an optimist beyond all bounds of reason who believes that we can take such a load upon the national stomach without a failure of assimilation, and without great danger to the health and life of the nation. For one, I believe it is time that we should take a rest, and give our social, political, and industrial system some chance to recuperate. The problems which so sternly confront us to-day are serious enough without being complicated and aggravated by the addition of some millions of Hungarians, Bohemians, Poles, south Italians, and Russian Jews.”

Terry

Agree to disagree. This country was founded on libertarian principles. With respect to immigration, libertarian immigration policies were the name of the game up until the late 1920s. IMO, it didn't turn the country into a shithole then, and I don't believe it would now.

"Fundamentally, yes bowbender."

So in essence, borders cease to exist. And without enforceable borders a country, well, isn't a country. Thanks, but no thanks.

What happened to Haiti?

It’s a tale of genocide, repeated white genocide. Has it been good for Haiti?

The left would say yes.

The True Story of Haiti—and the Mass Murder of Whites under Black Rule

TNO Staff — January 14, 2018 3 comments

The alleged description of Haiti as a “sh*t hole” by US Donald Trump makes it instructive to review the history of that Caribbean Island nation—and how its birth was bathed in blood as all whites and mixed race individuals were massacred during the tumultuous events which gave birth to that failed state.

Haiti and the Massacre of the Whites

The Caribbean state of Haiti serves as a striking reminder of just how deadly the practice of slavery could be. By 1804, the combined effect of thirteen years of uprisings, murder, and terrorism had destroyed the white population of Haiti, along with all agricultural production and the economy of what was formerly the most prosperous colony in the Western Hemisphere.

The island, originally named San Domingo, had become a center of Spanish activity during the time of the conquistador Hernando Cortes. The Spanish retained a small presence on the eastern side of the island, which is today known as the Dominican Republic. The western part of the island was settled by French traders in 1697 and renamed Saint-Domingue, and it was here that the ferocious race war took place.

The local Amerinds, called Canibales by the Spanish on account of their cannibalistic habits, had been reduced to insignificance by a combination of Spanish force of arms, slavery, and European diseases to which they had no immunity. As a result, the French started importing African slaves to work in the colony.

“The Jewel in the Crown”—Supplies Half of Europe’s Sugar Needs

By 1789, San Domingue was the jewel in the French colonial crown. Its ideal climate and naturally rich soil produced more sugar, coffee, and cotton than all of the then existing colonies in North America put together. San Domingue’s sugar output supplied not only all of France’s requirements, but half of the European continent’s needs as well.

San Domingue’s wealth was legendary, and by the time of the French Revolution, some 40,000 whites had settled in the colony. However, by this stage there were at least 450,000 black slaves toiling in the fields to maintain the island’s prodigious agricultural output, and in addition there were approximately 27,000 mulattoes. This huge nonwhite population, mostly kept under conditions of slavery, provided the demographic time bomb which utterly destroyed the white colony.

French Revolution—Move to Give Nonwhites the Franchise

The French Revolution of 1789 served as a spark which ignited the long-simmering racial pressures in San Domingue. A decree by the French national assembly of May 15, 1791, gave the white and mixed-race population on the island the right to vote.

The white settlers on the island immediately protested. The aptly-named governor general of the island, Blanchelande, sent a message to Paris warning that the implementation of such a form of government would result in “a frightful civil war” and the loss of the colony for France.

The French National Assembly then rescinded the earlier decree and issued a new one saying that the colonists themselves could decide on what form of government was best for their own particular circumstances. When this news was made known in San Domingue, it heightened tensions. The mixed-race population in particular were in an uproar after being informed that they had the vote and then only a few months later told the opposite.

“Amis des Noirs”—French Revolutionaries

A strong anti-slavery lobby, Amis des Noirs (“friends of the blacks”), developed in France, and grew increasingly powerful over the course of the revolution. This abolitionist group agitated constantly for emancipation and full political rights for both mulattoes and blacks in San Domingue, and reacted with outrage to the second decree which took away the right to vote for the mixed-race element.

As a result of the Amis des Noir’s efforts, the French national assembly issued a third decree which gave voting rights back to mulattoes and “free blacks,” that is, those blacks not under any form of indentured labor.

When this news was received in San Domingue, the now-armed black population launched a violent rebellion. Whites were attacked at random, plantations burned, and the island plunged into chaos. The mixed-race population initially sided with the whites but then switched allegiance to the blacks.

Blacks Exterminate All Whites In Haiti

By the end of the uprising in Haiti, every white man, woman, and child had been murdered. Once the whites had been exterminated, the black population then turned on the mixed-race population and wiped them out as well.

Chaos Reigns for Ten Years

The chaos continued until 1802 when a detachment of twenty thousand French troops was sent by Napoleon Bonaparte to restore order to the island. The French forces, under the command of Napoleon’s brother-in-law, General Leclerc, crushed the rebellion. The insurgents were ruthlessly hunted down and the main rebel leaders forced to pledge allegiance to the new French government.

Just when the situation seemed to have stabilized, two disastrous events occurred. The first was the news that the Napoleonic government had given permission for the reinstitution of slavery, and the second was an outbreak of yellow fever on San Domingue. The possibility that the institution of slavery could return reignited black unrest on the island. Meanwhile, the already thinly stretched French forces were decimated by disease, which killed as many as 160 soldiers per day. By August 1802, four fifths of the French troops who had arrived earlier in the year were dead.

Napoleon sent ten thousand fresh troops to bolster the beleaguered French garrison. The new troops were also laid low by yellow fever, and the rebellious blacks, largely immune to the disease, stepped up their attacks. The security situation on the island deteriorated once again.

The conflict then took an even nastier turn. The French authorities decided that the only way to bring the twelve-year-old race war to an end was to kill all black inhabitants over the age of twelve years. The reasoning for this was that any adult black who had, for the previous decade at least, waged a racial war against whites, would never meekly go back to working in the fields. The same applied to black women, the French decided, as the females of that race had proven themselves to be even more vicious and cruel to captured whites than their menfolk. With ruthless energy, the surviving French troops pursued their new orders, and many blacks were killed in this arbitrary fashion. Both sides were plunged into a spiral of tit-for-tat atrocities which seemed to have no end.

French Withdraw and Blacks Rule

The outbreak of the Napoleonic Wars intervened in developments on the island. France became embroiled in a war with Britain at sea, and the French colonial possession of San Domingue came under attack. The British navy blockaded the island, cut off supplies to the French garrison, and supplied the black rebels with guns and ammunition.

The most prominent of the black rebel leaders, Dessalines, launched a number of attacks on the increasingly isolated French garrisons in the coastal towns. Dessalines took town after town from the weakened French forces, and systematically exterminated all the whites taken prisoner. By November 10, 1803, the French could no longer hold out and surrendered to the British fleet off the coast. Of the fifty thousand French troops sent to the island, only a few thousand ever made it back to France.

The Massacre of the Last Whites

With the French gone, the black leader Dessalines had a free hand in instituting his own reign of terror against any whites still unfortunate enough to be on the island state. San Domingue was renamed Haiti in December 1803 and declared independent.

The country because the second independent nation in the Western Hemisphere (after the United States of America) and the first independent black-ruled nation in the Caribbean.

Having disposed of the whites, the blacks and the mixed-race population turned on each other in yet another race war. This ended with the almost complete annihilation of the mulatto population, and in October 1804, Dessalines declared his people to be the winners. To mark the occasion, he declared himself “emperor for life” of Haiti.

The same year, Dessalines asked those whites who had fled, to return and help rebuild the economy. A surprisingly large number of colonists took up his offer, but soon discovered the nature of their error.

Early in 1805 the black population once again rose up against the returned white settlers. Dessalines was powerless to control the mobs, despite the white colonists’ pleas. The Europeans were hunted down and, on March 18, 1805, the very last white person in Haiti was killed.

Comical Haitian “Army” 1899. The Haitian army on parade in 1899: a comical collection of “generals” with almost no soldiers, as vividly captured in the book Where Black Rules White (H. H. Prichard).

San Domingue, which under French rule was once the richest land in all the Caribbean, is today a Third World shambles of poverty, anarchy, and chaos. This state of affairs is even more meaningful when it is considered that the independent state of Haiti is only thirty-five years younger than the United States of America.

It is a devastating counterargument to the “environmental” theory of development—because if time and environment were the only factors influencing civilization, Haiti, in theory, should be as advanced as America.

Haiti—A Third World Nation. A street scene in Haiti, 2009. Despite being only a few years younger than the US, Haiti is a Third World nation. This is because its population is of Third World-origin.

I'd like to read the left's response to this. Good post!