People wonder why. Then you read about passengers having a tantrum because they were seated next to a toddler and then there is that idiot on 'The View' commenting on Christianity and a "mental illness".
The local Sheriff said he was not a current student of the school. He may have been at one time though. It doesn't look to good. I wonder if this school has an armed security guard on watch and if so what role did he/she play?
He may have piggy backed other students to get access to the inside... In todays climate acces to schools should be likened to trying to get into a prison. Prayers for all involved... God bless
The answer to this is so obvious that it hurts to see that we aren't already doing it........
Schools today are built for the most part with non-flammable materials and yet they also have fire alarms and FIRE EXTINGUISHERS/SPRINKLERS. Why? In case there IS a fire. We need to have the exact same mindset and preparation plan for shootings.
Yes, we need security and all that to make sure that only current students are entering the school and maybe even scanners like they have at the airport. But first and foremost we need a "shooter extinguisher"......AN ARMED GUARD/TEACHER!!!
We have armed guards at banks, large public arenas, airports, government offices and around most elected politicians and the fancy private schools that THEIR kids attend. Why are our KIDS not as important as them or our money? What kind of idiot actually believes that if we put a friggin' sign up that says, "NO GUNS ALLOWED" at a school that a nutjob will actually obey it? HOW MANY more children must be harmed before we wake the hell up?
This thread should be titled, "You Can't Fix Stupid 3"!
Best deterrent you can imagine, this little nutball kid would have never attempted this, in that kind of environment. Do it Nationwide, and watch this madness end!
Comments from some students indicate that the shooter was a known troubled person. One student said he avoided him because of his behavior and mentioned that the shooters phone had lots of pictures of guns. He also was prevented from carrying a backpack while he was a student because of his actions...
Obviously, there were plenty of signs that well could have predicted today's events.
I just got done looking at the pics......people, this is happening in schools, with kids. It is high time we face it.....we are sick America, and we need to get back that which we have lost...gun control is not the solution or the problem. Guns do not hurt anyone until someone sick in the head picks one up.
Now we talk about arming teachers.....We made our bed America, and now we are reaping what we have sowed. Who's to blame? we all are.... The time for finger pointing is over. It is time to turn this country around and start heading in a better direction....if we continue, it will only get worse.
Not only do they not have a sense of reality. They often live their lives theough social media and (often unimaginably violent and gory) video games.
They also know from experience that there are often no real consequences for bad behavior because our society has tied the hands of those who could give real consequences.
"I'm glad my 13 yr old daughter is home schooled."
I agree with WW.... but I don't think it's the teachers that we need to rely on to become armed. Sorry Henry... This is not aimed at you.... but too many of our teachers are liberals who think that no guns at all should ever be allowed in school.... My daughter goes to school in the city... and I guarantee you the teachers in her school are not the people who have the stones to arm themselves and protect our kids.... It has to be armed security guards......
I don't think the answer is more security in schools, that's just a bandaid. I'm reminded of the uneasy feelings I've had seeing armed guards with automatic weapons at a McDonalds in another country. I thanked God that the US hasn't had to resort to that.
It's a societal problem that has to be fixed at home. I blame the parents of this kid as much as I blame him.
"I agree with WW.... but I don't think it's the teachers that we need to rely on to become armed."
Big Bear I'm going to disagree with you somewhat. I agree there are teachers we couldn't depend on to fire a weapon in a situation like this, but there are plenty that can be depended on if allowed. The sheriff here got a grant for school safety some years ago, Included in that was training for teachers who wished to carry at school. They went through the reserve deputy training just like any other and are certified LEOs. They are required to work a minimum of 8 hours a month which is Arkansas's requirement for reserve officers. Most of their work is done at school (although they may do other things as well if they want). And, believe it or not, even though many of the students in the participating schools know certain teachers are deputies, the fact that the teachers are carrying weapons at school is unknown to the students and even to some of their fellow teachers.
Salagi..... I'm sure it will vary from urban areas to rural areas.... in rural areas there's probably a higher likelihood that teachers would carry....
In my daughters school in the city, in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood.... I doubt highly that one teacher would be willing to carry.
Mental health for sure but that is long term solution. Simple fix is one entry to building that is not locked. Two armed guards and no backpacks allowed. End of problem. Aren't our children worth the price of two guards? God bless, Steve
These killer kids need more incentive to choose a better path. Clearly the threat of arrest is less than the twisted glory they seek. Perhaps a very public hanging will better persuade these maniacs to think twice. Because scoff if you will... what we are currently doing is failing at an accelerating rate.
Thanks for having the sack to say what I was thinking. A very public and swift execution of this kid would undoubtedly make others think twice about the same behavior.
"Imagine your high-school experience with armed guards, no backpacks, and metal detectors. Our kids deserve better than that."
Of course they do Matt, but they also deserve not to be shot to pieces in what is literally a killing pen for someone who's armed and get's in there. And as sad as it is, "killing pens" are exactly what schools today are. Once someone bent on killing get's in, there's NOTHING to stop them. That must end. I do agree that we need to attempt to address the WHY of it and do as much as we can to prevent it, but there still has to be a "sheepdog" watching the flock.
Personally speaking, I would be relieved if the school my daughter went to had armed personal on staff. "Good guys" with guns.
Schools are just one "killing pen" of dozens that our children are exposed to, especially high-school aged kids. Are you suggesting every single venue needs that level of security? If that happens, the US WILL the be a "shithole".
Gun-free zones are an easy target. Seems like this shooter had plenty of time to move through out the school, both inside and outside. Reports are saying he had ties to the Resist movement. Radicalized and inspired by our LWL establishment. Its about time this country realized there's a war on the home front.
The parents of the murdered kids in Florida have no reason to hope for the militant society you are promoting. That type society is why the term "shithole" was created.
"I already heard this school did not have a plan in place should something like happened, no teachers were trained, no armed teachers, and I wonder if there was even an armed officer in the school"
Interesting point Jeff! It just so happens we flipped on CNN, (quite honestly, to see if the BAN talk had begun yet) and they had a "student" on the phone that said the school had recently trained for this kind of scenario. She didn't mention anyone being armed tho. Makes me wonder if their "phone call" wasn't fake as well?!
Matt, you can say "we deserve better" , but do you want to solve the problem, or just sit around and talk about how things should be? Because this will continue if something isn't done.
Just allow Teachers to open (or concealed) carry, after mandatory, extensive training. Even in large schools, there would always be someone that could take out a shooter in every group of kids. Do this, and watch this crap stop immediately. Run an advertising campaign..."You try, you die" !
How many Highjackings since armed Marshalls have been put on flights? It's a deterrent. It says, we are not going to be victims anymore.
If you have a faster solution, I'd love to hear it.
I'll bet the parents of those murdered kids would give anything if there were armed personnel in that school who could have stopped this carnage. I would if I were in their shoes.
And that "militant society" you say I'm promoting is ALREADY HERE. How many more bloodbaths do we have to have before realize that we have a weasel in the hen house?
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Yes Matt.... I am suggesting that EVERY school should have that level of security...
Why would we protect every courthouse in America with that security but not schools.....
I don't care if it offends anyone or if someone thinks it's sad that it has come to that. No one in America should have their child murdered at school......
Saying that parents need to fix this in the household isn't doing shit to stop this..... It is epidemic.... It needs to end.
There are soldiers that, even with boot camp and training, freeze when confronted by returned fire. What makes you think a teacher would have the wherewithal to fire at a gunman. Especially one of their own students. It’s not a good remedy for this type of massacre. And we can’t start turning our schools into armed fortresses. Schools are a place of nurturing.
Why can't we turn our schools into armed fortresses ???
We do it with every court house in America.... Are our children not as important to protect ??
After the armed guards and metal detectors have been installed...... and the kids and parents get used to passing them to enter.... it will just be routine..... and our schools will be safer. Much safer.
BB, I try to insulate my babies from the atrocities of the world. Any sane parent does. For as lon as we can, we try to keep that innocence and purity. Now imagine walking a 6 year old to school. Past the armed guard at gate 1, past the metal detector at gate 2 and then through a pat down at gate 3 where armed guard then takes her and walks her to class. No. That’s not the America I want for my kids.
I don't give a damned how many gates and armed guards I have to walk my kid past.... as long as I know my kid isn't going to get murdered at school.......
If you take your kid on a flight..... you have to go through security. When you get on the plane... there is an armed Air Marshal on the plane and the cockpit is locked up like Fort Knox......
And your chances of anyone taking over that plane have been reduced to almost zero.
Broward County Mayor Beam Furr said during an interview with CNN that the shooter was getting treatment at a mental health clinic for a while, but that he hadn't been back to the clinic for more than a year.
"It wasn't like there wasn't concern for him," Furr said.
Reports say that one of the football coaches at that high school stepped in front of the students to shield them and was then shot. It's not sure yet if he survived. It also said that he was also a security guard at the school as well as a coach. If he was then I guess he wasn't armed?
Having worked in schools for almost 40 years, I guarantee that it is almost impossible to make the buildings physically secure - particularly high schools. One way around this would be to build new buildings, or new walls and fences around existing buildings. In many places that is just not feasible.
Even if they are made secure, there will then be somebody who finds a way to bypass that security. Kids are capable of negating anything adults do to restrict their access and egress from school buildings.
The cost of building new buildings or making current buildings more secure (and manning the secure entrances) would run more than building a wall between here and Mexico.
Then there is the issue of being able to evacuate the building. Maybe we need to change fire codes. Current buildings would be almost impossible to burn, so we may not need an exit within a few feet of every classroom.
There will always be the times when large numbers of students are enter or leaving the building. What do you do about them?
The only thing that will actually end school shootings is a change in our society. As many have pointed out, for most of our history, there were many guns around most schools, no security, and no mass school shootings.
In the months following 9/11, when we had the National Guard all over the place, I'll admit I felt vaguely uneasy about it all. It somehow just felt "un-American."
But then I lived for a number of years in Israel (including during the intifada in 2002/'03) and got used to seeing soldiers everywhere and armed guards at every coffee shop and movie theatre. Every time I entered a parking garage the security guards would check my trunk and look under the car with mirrors. Every time I went out for coffee my backpack would be searched and the guard would wave me down with a handheld metal detector.
At first it was uncomfortable, but I quickly came to appreciate it. Sure, no people should "have to live that way." Sure, I longed for a time when it might not be necessary. But at that moment I simply wanted to finish my Turkish coffee without being vaporized by a psycho with a suicide vest.
By all means, continue the conversation about how we might address possible root causes of this sort of behavior, but in the short term an ounce of prevention seems like a small price to pay.
"Sorry Henry... This is not aimed at you.... but too many of our teachers are liberals who think that no guns at all should ever be allowed in school." Bear, you owe me no apology. I believe that too many teachers have bought the leftist lies and are poisoning out kids with their failing ideas.
Like journalism and entertainment, teaching has been targeted by leftists that "want to make a difference" more than they want truth, justice, and the American way.
To be clear, I believe that we should do what we can to make schools physically secure - and schools should be armed (including all teachers who are willing and able to be properly trained).
This would also be a great way to get kids connected with military and LE so they would grow up appreciating those who volunteer to put their lives on the line to protect us.
Automatic lockdown of all the doors after the kids are in class would go a long ways. Guards would be in control and check all kids coming in. No backpacks at all. When we were in school we never had backpacks. We had lockers and did our homework in the last class. Perhaps the teachers would stop loading the students up with tons of homework if they had no way to carry all the books. We had no homework except a couple of classes. Anyway the solution is simple and absolutely would not cost a fortune to accomplish and our kids would be so much safer than they are with all the pc that is controlling everything now. Again WW is right on and the left is pie in the sky. This is a necessary now thing. We have absolutely way to much of this and there is no way to know where it will hit next. In the meantime outlaw all kill games for a start/ God bless, Steve
Automatic lockdown of all the doors after the kids are in class would go a long ways. Guards would be in control and check all kids coming in. No backpacks at all. When we were in school we never had backpacks. We had lockers and did our homework in the last class. Perhaps the teachers would stop loading the students up with tons of homework if they had no way to carry all the books. We had no homework except a couple of classes. Anyway the solution is simple and absolutely would not cost a fortune to accomplish and our kids would be so much safer than they are with all the pc that is controlling everything now. Again WW is right on and the left is pie in the sky. This is a necessary now thing. We have absolutely way to much of this and there is no way to know where it will hit next. In the meantime outlaw all kill games for a start/ God bless, Steve
Now you've done it JTV. Lefthand Tutu is so wound up he is calling you a blart (telling) so watch out, he might call you out for blazing row titsu jitsu match.
High capacity magazines are not the issue. One can go into a school and kill 50 students with a single shot bolt action .22 before the Police can arrive - unless there is a good guy with a gun on site.
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Plus, anyone can change out from an empty 10 round magazine to a full 10 round magazine in less than 4 seconds.
The M1 Carbine, and the tommy gun replicas hold similar amounts of ammo, and were available since, oh, WWII and before. The problem is not the weaponry, the problem is cultural. It would not surprise me to find that drug use by parents scrambles little brains in the womb to cause kids to go off like this.
Weren't .44.magnum rifles calvary weapons when they slaughtered the Native Americans? FWIW - A reload can be done in under 1 second with some regular practice. It's not the tools that are the problem... it's this rampant and senseless will to kill that must be identified and stopped.
As I read down over the post....all I can do is shake my head. What kind of world do you people want to live in?....Ben Yehuda...you mentioned being comfortable with all the security really! REALLY!! ? the fact that you EVEN NEED THAT KIND OF SECURITY SHOWS WE GOT PROBLEMS!!
I'll tell you the world I want for my grandkids....I want peaceful sunday summer afternoons , sitting in the grass eating an ice cream cone with their mom and dad, after church.
I want them to know right from wrong, i want sitting around the table saying grace before supper to be as normal as the air they breathe....I want them to grow up enjoying the outdoors and looking at a gun as something you use for recreation and hunting...not a weapon. I want them to grow up and realize that when life gets tough, you keep your spirits up, overcome it and keep your faith.
I want them to respect, love and care for others.
In MY family...mom dad, brothers and their familys, my kids grandkids....We live in a world as many of you describe., But we are not part of that mess, sadly those like us.... all to often suffer the consequences of those of you that are.
We all want that shade mt........ Unfortunately there is evil everywhere in the world.... So the choice is to either protect yourself and your family or be a victim......
What I value above all things is liberty, a country with a strong moral center.
Something the left has worked on destroying for the last fifty years. Guess what Jujitsusexxual boy, it’s your policies, destruction of the family, removal of any mention of God, expelling the bullied kid for hitting back, etc that has brought society to this point. Wanna lay blame? Go look in the mirror. This is a direct result of leftist policies. You own it.
Lefty would have you believe only military style guns can cause such damage. But in China, where there are no such guns at all, they STILL have mass murders in schools using knives and clevers. A grown man can kill school children with his bare hands. Isn't that what he keeps telling us about his super jiu-jitsu skills? Such a foolish argument.... he must have been choked out one too many times.
Gotcha.... Trumps fault. Your kind has been chewing away at the moral fabric of this country for half a century. And when the monster you created bites, you act all shocked and horrified. Never let a serious crisis go to waste, right?
As I said, more security at the schools is just a bandaid.
Are you going to lock high-school students inside all day? If not, how do you protect them at lunch, in-between classes, or to and from school? Do we need armed guards and metal detectors at all McDonalds, gas stations, convenience stores, malls....anywhere our kids are likely to go on any given day? Haven't we learned by now that a deranged shooter can always find a venue full of soft targets?
Our society has to focus on recognizing and responding to the signs of this mental disorder, and taking necessary measures to eliminate the threat. In this case, it sounds like there were plenty of signs indicating this kid had problems, yet nothing was done. That has to stop.
Our own education system and the new culture of the American way of life promotes these tragedies that target the young and impressionable through the incessant brain washing of "self expression". Unfortunately children and the population as a whole are exposed to a wide range of countless dark individual "self expressed" mediums, hammered into submission day and night. The confident and strong who America intends to artificially temper can withstand this onslaught but the meek and introvert searches their soul for the prize of sensational accomplishment. Secure schools like prisons? This message being sent to the very young is that violence is good because it protects, that they need be protected not only from outside forces but from themselves and this confusion molds a students growth but does not nourish their confidence in the "look over your shoulder" future There is a answer but is buried deep in the past never to be exhumed for fear of the sacrifice that would be required. Once given in America some things can never be taken back and the body count is mere collateral damage that stokes the economy. Sick, sick nation.
"didn't know you wrote satire. The right just installed a thrice married con-man that cavorts with porn stars and thinks some nazis are fine people. He grabs 'em by the pussy and has given another man permission to call his daughter a fine piece of ass. He supported a child molester for the Senate and kept a wife beater on his staff for almost a year after the information was first revealed to the White House. The left has it's problems, but please spare me the sanctimonious BS about the your "moral center."
Man, did you forget to wake and bake this morning?
Apparently, the FBI was alerted about this kid back in September, and nothing came of it. It looks like he posted a youtube video proclaiming as wish to be a "professional school shooter."
You guys value guns more than human lives. Bunch of ammosexual Mittys fantasying about your tactical readiness. Gun marketing works! High capacity magazines coupled with a .556 or .308 make any asshole a killing machine. Nobody is killing 17 kids with a .22 bolt action. Nobody is killing 17 kids with a wheel gun. Nobody is killing 17 kids with Wingmaster. A deranged ex-marine sniper might be able to kill 17 with a Weatherby, but they would need the high ground and some time.
Hey left, why did you not call for banning automobiles when terrorist drove them into crowds and killed a lot of people? if you are going to blame metal objects for evil acts then automobiles kill way more people than guns.
"Apparently, the FBI was alerted about this kid back in September, and nothing came of it. It looks like he posted a youtube video proclaiming as wish to be a "professional school shooter."
Yep, and that's exactly the gross neglegence that has to stop, IMO. Did this kid have wear a sign that says "I'm planning a mass shooting" before others recognized that he was a threat?
So would it have been more acceptable if a Ruger Mini14 was used? You know .223/5.56 semi-auto.
And please, stop with the weapons of war bullshit. Every gun you listed was a weapon of war. Like the movie Dumb and Dumber. Just when I think you can’t sound any dumber you go and exceed ALL expectations.
Lefty you could put 20-10 round magazines of 9mm in cargo pants and kill even more. The gun or type of gun is irrelevant and you know it.
I have an 8 year old and a 16 year old. Every time the school sends out a survey, in the "comments/suggestion" section I always write, you need armed security. It is beyond my comprehension that is not a given in every school in the country. If there is not a trained professional with a gun at the school they have no plan- period.
Exactly. By stating that we need to limit mag capacity to 7 or 10 or some other random number, places a number on the amount of casualties that is somehow acceptable. We place armed guards at banks, courthouses, sporting venues, but not at schools. Shows what we value.....and what we don’t.
Recognizing someone is a threat is one thing. Empowering our law enforcement personnel and judiciary with the ability to intervene is another - there are LOTS of things that get in the way (due process, HIPAA, freedom of speech, etc).
I've dealt with a friend who, for lack of a better term, went off the rails. It was damn near impossible to get anyone to intervene and get him the help he clearly needed. I understand why these protections are in place, but there has to be a better system that gets the people the help they need without the fear of it being abused.
I remember taking my brand new .22 Remington Fieldmaster to my 5th grade class for show and tell. Taking my 30-06 to the high school and leaving it in my truck so I could jet up the mountain to look for a deer after school before it got too dark.
Our society has changed so much since those halcyon days in my little town 40+ years ago. IMHO, I think much could be laid at the feet of parents. As parents we took the power to discipline from our teachers and principals. I stayed in check much of the time because my principals scared the shit out of me. They weren't mean, but they were men and they were armed with paddles. You could get a swat from them and then get to go home to face a parent who may lay a little extra enforcement on you.
I like the idea about maybe recruiting "vetted" veterans. I would take this one step further and get them POST certified. I would offer them incentives to get their teaching credentials should they choose. They already spent a good portion of their adult years in service. I wouldn't be too surprised if some of them wouldn't make good teachers if they chose.
School uniforms. Let's try those. They would serve to cut back on affiliations of one group or another. Might also have that psychological effect of "unity" that many of us felt when we wore uniforms, be it sports, military, civil service, etc. and give our school teachers and administrators the power to enforce rules. Lets lose backpacks. If kids need to take things home, get a book bag. You cut down on the carrying capacity and you occupy hands. Lets install state of the art surveillance systems in these halls and rooms. Sure our precious darlings deserve a bit of privacy, but lets leave that to bathroom breaks.
Last but not least and at the risk of being pilloried as a lefty (which I can assure you, I am not), we as a society need throttle down on what liberals call the "gun culture." I think too many of our kids are desensitized to killing with guns. Video games, movies and TV shows and even the news. Everything is "tactical." What was once a military term has become a marketing tool. "Tacticool." Gun manufacturers could go along way in their advertising to change this. Not sure how, but I didn't buy my AR because it was tacticool, I bought it because I could see the left "gunning" for them and thought I better get one before they were gone. I have used it primarily for varmints and coyotes since, and it's fun to shoot. For self defense applications, I go with a shotgun and a few handguns placed safely around the house.
These school shootings are getting so prevalent, it's just news now, what bothers me is that it ceases to shock me. I met a friend at a local watering hole for a beer last night where they have multiple TV's. They were showing the Olympics, a hunting show and the news which was covering this shooting. I found myself shaking my head at the news, then splitting my time watching sports and the high-fivers shooting deer and talking to my buddy about a trip I am about to go on. Got home, ate supper and didn't give it too much more thought.
This generation is loaded with people with no morals and no respect for authority. There are gun laws that are not followed. Committing a crime with a gun mandates 5 years in prison. Obama's people dropped all those charges. We have laws but they were not followed so why have more laws. Enforce what is on the books. Thousands of people caught lying on their forms to buy a gun and not charged. Biden said they didn't have time, it was too labor intensive.
All of these shootings have at least one thing in common. Someone knew they were going to do it. 'The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."
On September 25th, the FBI was warned about a Nikolas Cruz threat to become a school shooter.
But corrupt McCabe & his pals were too busy trying to take down President Trump to care about our kids.
Yes, the FBI was notified about a utube video the shooter put out about wanting to be a school shooter. If you see something, say something..........Well people saw something and said something. What the hell good did it do? The FBI has spent millions trying to find collusion on Trump, and can't. They can't find a guy that puts out a threat on the internet. They didn't care.
Back in college I had a class that required an informative/persuasive speech on a topical issue. I did mine of gun control. This was around 1987, after San Ysidro and the big post office shooting.
My 'attention grabber' idea was to bring a pistol into the class. I cleared this with the College Dean ahead of time, and deactivated the pistol by cutting the firing pin. But did not inform the teacher or other students. It was a very small class, maybe 13 kids that day. When it came to my turn, I stepped to the podium, pulled the pistol that was tucked in my waistband under a coat, and racked the slide. It was an attention grabber!
My point was basically that no help could arrive in time, no one could escape fast enough. There was no way to argue or plead for a different result. The only way to stop an armed attacker was to be armed yourself. I got an "A" in that class. But here we are 30 years later and nothing has changed.
I was a school custodian thirty years at all different levels,from pre school to high school.it is mostly the same.after school activities leave the school wide open.when your in the back of schools cleaning,you have no idea of who comes in and where they go unless you catch them.sports teams and band always propping doors open.most times we couldn't get doors checked till maybe ten at nite.doors propped and tied open.anyone could sneak in and hide all note,unless motion sensors caught them.I've caught people wandering around the back hallways at eleven at night before.said there looking for an old teacher.yea right.
The coach who shielded his students has died from his wounds. One wonders what the outcome would have been had he been armed/trained? May God rest his soul.
Woodguy65 I agree 100% my school district has two armed retired state police officers at every school. They hired two only for the high school to start with and the response from the community was overwhelmingly positive. They now have two in every school not only to provide protection but to deter drugs. When I went to school in the seventies we all had gun racks in our trucks and hunted small game after school. We never had school shootings back then. So what has changed?
Our upper gym had a batting net cage.two set of outside doors,always propped open.talk to the principal and your just pissing in the wind.I'm glad I made it to retirement.
It always makes me shake my head when people blame the AR. Like it does it on it's own or that the nutjob in control couldn't do it with anything else.
They've obviously never used a 12 gauge shotgun at close range with the plug out, an open choke, and #4 buck in the magazine. Talk about an "assault" weapon!
BB is right. Put trained, armed guards in half the schools and leave the other half as kill pens so the folks who "don't want their kids to experience" the stress of armed security have the choice. Guess which schools will be full to the max? And guess which school will be the target of the next whacko?
I don't like what our world has become either, but it is what it is.
Related, due to external pressures, many schools are put in the position where they can do little to deal with "problem" students. Example...see link.
These school shooting events are not gun problems, but one that deals with social failures. Discipline, respect, and common moral values can no longer be part of our educational system which has fallen prey to proregressive memes of no "right/wrong" and forced inclusion of those whose needs fall outside of the majority of kids.
Toss in far too much face time with video games and abrogation of responsibility, no wonder these events happen.
There are proven students all over the world. There are psychos all over the world. The only ones that massacre people w guns are here in the US. Let’s just make that clear distinction. This is not about mental issues. It’s about people w mental issues getting access to guns.
"Related, due to external pressures, many schools are put in the position where they can do little to deal with "problem" students."
You are so right. When my son was in 5th grade, there was a problem child. Out of control minority student that was basically untouchable. Had special teachers, to handle his inability to listen or follow instructions. Started fights all the time. We called numerous times, had meetings with the principal about him choking my son in the bathroom, punching him in the face and abdomen. They REFUSED to address the problem. Which was the kid needed his ass kicked. I told my son, the next time he gets near you, in class, bathroom, lunch, waiting for the bus, I don’t care. Drop him. Punch him square in the face and don’t stop till he backs off. Well one morning I just pulled into work, my phone rings. It’s the principal. “Mr. K, there was an issue this morning involving your son and another student. He punched a student several times in the face.” I asked who the student was. She refused to answer. I asked if it was the one my son had problems with. No answer. Told her this conversations over, if you wish to continue it OR take action against my son, we’ll discuss your lack of action with the school board and my attorney. Never heard a word. Kid never touched my son again. Pretty much kept to himself the next to years.
Bottom line, schools really do little to address bullying. Lotta talk, posters, no real action. No letting kids sort it out.
The multi-personality, self admitted pathological liar lecturing us about mental issues! Are you serious Lyin'PaulRyanBoone?? It's because of disturbed people like YOU that we have kids that are this batsh*t crazy in our schools.
Bowbender.... my daughter is in 6th grade now and has had 2 of those students to deal with for several years. They are both straight out of Detroit sent to the suburbs to live with their grandmothers. One is a boy and one is a girl.
Everyone at that school is too much of a liberal pansy ass to deal with them properly....
And these are the people that some folks here are saying should be carrying guns ?? Please.......
I don't think Hunters really get it BB. They look from their own perception rather than realize most teachers are liberal pansies who are scared to correct, let alone shoot someone. There are exceptions of course...
Of course.... I'm sure there are teachers and staff in rural areas fully capable and willing to carry ....... but that ain't happening at my daughters school.... I'd bet my next paycheck on it....
I just heard the coach that shielded his students at school taking 3 rounds died. No greater love than someone who willingly lays down their life for others. I hope his name is on the news more than the shooter.
Is it just me or does something seem really odd about these shootings? I have yet to see any cctv footage of any, including vegas... cctv is your best insight to acces of these crime scenes, video dos not lie and believe me every school has some kind of camera or security protocol to know who is on that property... that kid had trouble holding his head up from the video at the police capture... no belts, vests, or visible weapons... that dude was out of it just like the aurora shooter.
It all starts at home. My wife is a Marriage Family Therapist. Kids going nutso. What are the parents doing for discipline? Taking away privileges like electronics? Oh no we don’t do that because it upsets them too much. My daughter said they have two kids in their school that are dangerous. One in kindergarten the other in 2nd grade. The kindergarten teacher said you don’t want to turn your back on the one. The other kid stabbed his brother.
I thinks it’s high time people need to be tested before they’re allowed to have kids. Look at all these little antics turds. It’s high time they get disciplined. I saw a video the other day were a Samoan student decked two of them. They suddenly thought it was time to leave. Parents discipline your kids! If you don’t then the police have to.
Note that Paul Zeidan (atheist, Ryan from Boone, et. al.) is an indoctrinator at Briarcliff Manor High School providing example of what a proregressive teacher provides to his students.
Identifying the problem as a problem of guns ignores the root causes of these events. We are living in times where there are no absolute moral values being taught or expected--anything goes until someone is killed. Teachers cannot discipline an unruly student and the worst outcome is usually suspension...where the kid is usually home without any supervision. Far too many parents look to the school system as government provided day care, and their kids are latchkey kids till they get home.
And after an event, the media far too often gives the kid the gratification they seek with their 24/7 reporting and analysis. Instead, the media should focus on heros like Aaron Feis, the football coach who sacrificed his life to protect students. Thank God there are people like them who walk among us.
One could only imagine how many lives he could have saved had he been armed and able to respond.
The whole "look-at-me" internet culture has a lot to do with our problems, IMO. These days our kids self-esteem is based on how many "likes" or "friends" or "followers" they have. They judge their own lives by the cherry-picked moments that others post. It's like a huge popularity contest where the contestants can portray themselves anyway they want to.
They call it "social media", but it's breeding a whole generation of social misfits.
Annony, Exactly. Look at the kids that were actually disciplined, forty to fifty years ago, compared to today's kids, without discipline. I wasn't worried about the police, if i did something wrong, i was worried about coming home. My dad would have a field day with your a$$, when you got home, after getting caught doing something wrong. I wouldn't change a thing about the way we were brought up. I was around guns, at a very early age. Never was i, EVER, in danger from a gun. I was taught by my father, on how to handle guns. The dumba$$ dems want more gun control. What for??? A GUN can't hurt anyone, without the trigger being pulled. Like i have said before, The democrats are more dangerous, and the biggest threat, this Country will ever face.
Matt......I agree but the "look at me" generation did not magically appear on their own. They are the off springs of the ultra permissive society monster that we have illogically created, accepted, ignored and placed at their feet. The "what about me" generation coupled with the advent of the PC has produced less than desirable results and control of ill fated decisions by our children. Sadly we push them ever closer to the keyboard and monitor daily at a very young age unaware to the innocent of the pitfalls and luring dangers that are lurking. Ironically the parents are well aware of these dangers and continue fanatic in this disastrous behavior that tempts the devil himself. Then we wonder why we endlessly fill the bucket with tears.
That Delaware picture is true. When I went to school in the 50's we took our guns to shop class to clean them. That was when it was safe to carry guns in a rack in the back window of your truck. I had guns and a Bear recurve in my vehicle most of the time.
Don’t remember who posted this but the smartest comment ever “ place police sub-stations inside the schools” I would take it one step further and include state police post inside schools also .
I have not done any research on this..... but on the face it appears to me that these shootings are occurring in middle class schools.......
The worst schools in the big cities suffer from a lot of violence..... Kids there are probably more likely to be in single parent homes... So why then,,, Are these shootings occurring at the middle class schools..... all the way back to Columbine ?? Why not the worst neighborhoods of Chicago,,,, Detroit,,, LA or New York ??
They also seem to be around the same age, build, skin color, and most have some sort of mental issues or on psychotic drugs, single parent, broken home and a strange fetish for guns or animal mutilation... is there a pattern here?
Maybe schools are their neutral territory? I dunno.... All I know is, a skinny ass white kid waving a gun in an inner city school has a life expectancy of about less time it takes to read this.
Bowbender.... That was kind of what I was getting at.... why aren't the black kids doing mass shootings at schools.... They for sure are subjected to hardship in their upbringing.... Why does this seem to be a phenomenon of white middle class schools ??
Could it be because middle class kids are more likely to have unlimited access to the internet.....and all the latest greatest games of war on their X-Box...?? I don't know.....
BB...because they go hand-to-hand in the inner city schools.
Too many "news" stories/videos on social media of fights in halls, classrooms and cafeterias. Perhaps the fisticuffs release pent up animosity so guns never come out. There is data that the guns are there no matter the "security measures" imposed.
Outside of these school districts, it seems that a large number of reported shootings are drive-by...a demonstration of macho cowardice where intended targets have the same value as innocent bystanders.
Annony -"Outside of these school districts, it seems that a large number of reported shootings are drive-by...a demonstration of macho cowardice where intended targets have the same value as innocent bystanders."
I was thinking of it as just the opposite. The inner city killings that I read about are usually targeted toward an individual - it is rare (and newsworthy) when an innocent bystander gets shot.
These mass shootings in schools/concerts/movies are mostly killing bystanders - the ultimate in cowardness.
"...where intended targets have the same value as innocent bystanders." ..."
Chicago...Detroit...a large majority of the shootings are described by media as drive by. As such, anyone in the general vicinity of the target is in as much danger of being shot as the intended. (See jackass Chicago reports)
How about this story today: chemical attack in school (link).
Rock x2, You are a lot nicer instructor, mine would of kicked his ass and shamed him before showing him the door. There was a reason it was called self defense, not aggression.
Before Nikolas Cruz carried out his mass killing at a Florida high school this week, police responded to his home 39 times over a seven-year period, according to disturbing new documents.
LeftHandCanyon archer taught combat pistol for 30 years . . . .
. . . he has more purple hearts than John Kerry . . . .
. . . and, JTV, I performed a reconnaissance, and got some footage of LeftHandCanyonArcher at the Dojo - let me tell you JTV, be very afraid - VERY AFRAID !!!
I think maybe one of the reasons this sh!t happens is that kids are NOT allowed to fight. We mixed it up all the time, in school, after class, at the bus stop. Teachers would grab us by the collar, send us to the principal's office. He (or the nun) would ask us what's going on.....blah blah, he started it, typical crap. No expulsion. Bullies? When you took enough crap, you smacked one. Didn't have to worry about being suspended or expelled. Seriously, swinging fists at lunch, friends an hour later. Nowadays....becomes a pressure cooker with no relief valve. Just ramblings from someone who went to school in the 60's & 70's. A better time, I believe.
Someone asked why we do not see these psych's in the hood. Perhaps these psychopaths become gang bangers and truth be told they are actually serial killers. Does anyone really believe in all of these inner cities there are 500 plus individual murderers each year? The perfect place for a serial killer to get his rocks off.
The root cause of this murder spree can be linked directly to the proregressive philosophy of passive acceptance and not accepting reality that they had a problem student in their school. Cruz was a known problem and school policies prevented them from informing the police of this walking time bomb.
It seems that everyone knew, but no one acted upon that knowledge.
The FBI showed incompetence by saying that they were not able to identify Cruz from his YouTube video even though he provided his name. They were alerted of a potential problem and passed (perhaps they were more focused on the Steele dossier).
BB, I think we’ll see the Director go down, they botched it big time...That’s to funny, I’ve seen a lot of the ‘legitimate tough guys’ cry when we put them in cuffs...Funny how that happens!
When someone goes online showing off guns like this kid and others somethings wrong. I would imagine if you can get any of their friends to talk you’d find that hey knew he was screwy and probably made reference to doing violence. People need to start taking theses things serious and talk to people that can do something.
DL...I couldn't agree with you more, funny how millions of babys don't get a chance, go largely unnoticed, every day they are with their mother, where she goes they go, outside the womb they can hear and sense the presence of others....then one day someone decides that they have no right to live, and without ever having a chance.....they are murdered. We suffer violence, and murder, because of the way we are, not because of guns. You want to clean up the streets, make it safe for our children? start cleaning up the people. God would be a good place to start, not some radical off the wall religion, but the truth...The new testament, and the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I completely agree that if everyone was religious that the country would be a safer place.... that goes for Christians, Jews, Hindu,,,,, Whatever.......
But since we can't force people to be religious...... Then what is the answer ?? To continue on the path we are on and accept school shootings as an acceptable consequence of the lack of religion in our country ??
"I get harassed, I square up. You think that is being a bully? I call it sticking up for yourself."
Every self defense course. Every one. Has taught me to avoid an engagement or confrontation when possible. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder, looking for trouble.
I was assistant instructor in self defense classes when I was younger. The instructor was a 5th degree marine black belt. He always said walk away from confrontation if possible. He didn't teach karate, he taught self defense and some of the stuff we taught would't be allowed in competition. I stopped when I hit 30 and had to take 4 shots on insulin a day. I still remember enough not to worry though. Besides, a 9 mm beats a whole lot of self defense with your hands and feet.
The problem is the weapons that are available to any asshole with $1,000 bucks. You don’t have to be tough. You don’t have to train. You don’t have to suffer. You just need a $1,000 bucks for a semi-auto 5.56, 300 rounds and ten mags and you are a killing machine. I need a Wingmaster 12 gauge, a .257 Weatherby, a .22, a .44 magnum, and recurve. I don’t need weapons of war. I don’t need to be “tactical.” Nobody needs more than 10 rounds unless you intend to kill a lot of people or you are a lousy shot. If we go back to the weapons we had in 1970, these shootings would stop.
"""This makes me want to break heads. I tired of the ammosexual assholes that will sacrifice lives because they have a gun fetish. You want to know where I’m going to get my ARs when the shit hits the fan. I’m going to take them from an ammosexual with an NRA sticker in his truck window. If your going to kill, do it with your hands.""""
Here is LHDA's first post. Now he gets his feelings hurt because He's being harassed.
Everyone is a Krav Maga ninja 'going to take a gun from an NRA guy'.... until its time. It only seems to work on the internet. Refer back again to the Indiana Jones clip.
“But since we can't force people to be religious...... Then what is the answer ?? To continue on the path we are on and accept school shootings as an acceptable consequence of the lack of religion in our country ??”
I’ve been all over the world, and can tell you that organized religion is much more prevalent here in the United States than it is in most developed countries I’ve been to that don’t have the gun violence and mass shootings we have in this country. I’m sorry, I don’t buy the religion, Hollywood, video game aspect of the gun violence debate. We are not the only country that plays video games and watches movies.
I think there’s a lot more to be done around mental health as well, but the reality is we are also not the only country that deals with mental health problems in our society.
I own a TON of guns, and plenty that draw the ire of the left with regards to gun control. That said, I think it’s time we restrict how people go about purchasing and owning guns.
And WHO get's to "restrict"...AKA denial of 2A rights, or ANY God given rights...? The government? Politicians like Durbin, Hellary. Ryan, McConnell, Schumer et.al? Seems to me we fought a war for independence 242 years ago over that very issue. That's NOT what America is, and majority of problems that we do have is directly or indirectly linked to the above.
How's about for a start, we actually USE the laws and existing systems of checks that we do have before start enacting even more laws and regulations that the government hacks won't follow? This government that you want to give even more power to to strip us of our natural born rights has ROYALLY ****ed up TWICE in this past year in security background checks of Devin Patrick Kelly and Nikolas Cruz that has resulted in the deaths of many people. If no one at the FBI is at least fired for this deadly screwup then why bother to enact any new laws/regulations?
But are we the only Country that combines kids playing 10 hours a day of violent video games with rampant use of ADD and psychotropic brain altering drugs .... along with real gun availability?????
Making gun laws for law abiding citizens, isn't going to do anything to help gun violence. These kids will get guns from gangs, and the streets. They don't care about gun laws. Gun laws won't have any effect on these thugs. Quit coming up with excuses for these morons. If the parents were still able to beat their kids a$$, for the bad things the kids do, when they are young, and raise their kids like they are suppose to, this $hit would stop. We want "GUN CONTROL", but yet kids can go out and buy video games, and these games do nothing but show these young kids, how to kill people at a very early age. How come we can't have, "VIDEO GAME CONTROL"? It's all BS.
" If we go back to the weapons we had in 1970, these shootings would stop." "I think it’s time we restrict how people go about purchasing and owning guns."
M-1 carbine, similar rate of fire, magazine capacity equal to an AR-15. Available since the end of WWII. In fact, prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968 could be ordered by mail by anyone. And yet, school shootings unheard of. I know, there were a few, even some accounts back in the 1800's, but for the most part non existent. When I was in high school in the 1970's, at any given time you would have found guns in at least half the cars in the parking lot, more if there was a hunting season on. None of us had any thought of shooting anyone at school. Shoot (pardon the pun), I carried a pistol on my hip to a school fund raiser where I was the jailer one time. A state trooper there in uniform, jut looked at it and smiled, (bullets were in my pocket). Nobody worried about it, it was part of my costume.
The problem is not the guns and banning them isn't going to help the problem, it goes way beyond that. Landon Saunders said over 30 years ago comment on society problems, "The heart of the problem, is a problem of the heart." I believe there is a lot of truth in that statement. I also believe there is no easy answer to how to fix it, there probably isn't even a hard answer to fix it. But, each one of us can make a little difference in changing that, and little bits can add up to a lot and help things.
6. Hold our government agencies who are tasked with security and background checks accountable for when they screw up and get people killed. If no one at the minimum get's fired for the latest "ball drops" which resulted in numerous deaths, or preferably punished with prison time, then anymore laws/regulations that we enact are a joke.
All deals should be off the table. There seems to be enough evidence, including video that he doesn't have to plead guilty for the courts to find him guilty.
Some form of public execution...... possibly some deterrent value to future psychos? They seem to have a disconnect between fantasy and reality. Like it's all some kind of game they're playing, or in some kind of movie they see themselves staring in.
There are shootings and always have been since the first guns ever fired.... streets, schools, churches, etc. But pretty much one guy with a rage against another.... there was a target, a specific target. These latest events are just to kill people. As many as possible. A kind of retribution/revenge against society itself that deserves it for the way the world has treated them. "I'll show them all.... I'll make them pay for this....." whatever "this" is....
I've seen these video games..... played a few years ago that were so easy to be engrossed in you lose track of time living in that world. Some are violent beyond imagination. I can certainly see damage happening to a young mind that was not right to begin with.
But..... then again the Vegas shooter didn't seem the video gamer nor the internet tough guy/psycho. In fact haven't seen any real info WRT his reasons or his "why?"
We put down sick dogs for biting....why is this psycho any different. .22 behind the ear, by end of next week. Leave his carcass in a field for the scavengers. His legacy? Buzzards picking at his remains. Just kinda how I feel right now....sorry if it isn't...compassionate.
It is different this time. Those AR 15s are not long for this world. How many of these shootings happen with a nice Remington 700 BDL with monte carlo stock?
They really do server no purpose that another type of gun won't do better.
The dumbass could have killed as many people with a Ruger 10/22. Could have carried more ammo too.
He did not purchase the weapon legally. He lied on the federal firearms form. He knew he was mentally something as he had spent two years in the program.
The family who housed the MFer should have figured out something was not right with him. Why did he have access to weapons?
The cops having been called to his residents over thirty times didn't have a clue either?
The poor FBI couldn't figure it out as they were too busy trying to hang Trump.
The entire thing could have been prevented. All the signs were present.
"It is different this time. Those AR 15s are not long for this world. How many of these shootings happen with a nice Remington 700 BDL with monte carlo stock? They really do server no purpose that another type of gun won't do better."
How many different threads are you going to post this on? And like I asked you, when the Remington 700 is used in shooting and is classified as a high powered sniper rifle that has no civilian use, which orifice will you offer up to appease the gun grabbers?
You could put a killer in an area with a single shot and if there's no one there with the ability to shoot back he will kill as many people as he likes. Would you make a declawed cat live outside? Putting kids in a confined area with no tool of self defense is the same thing.
Banning the AR, or ANY firearm for that matter is a sham and is purely the effort of the American hating left's eventual goal of disarming us.
Probably should ban shotguns and buckshot while we are at it. In this situation I would consider that to be a much more deadly combo..........oh.........and those pipes that can be used to make bombs that could be thrown into a classroom..........oh yeah.......what about youtube where they learn to make those bombs. Probably need to get cars too and just let everybody walk. Those cars could be driven into a school. In the small rural academy that we go to I would love for a few of the coaches and male teachers to be required to carry after the school invested in the best training available for them. Female teachers that are willing could also be allowed to carry providing they pass the test.
Guns are not permitted behind prison walls. Yet, nobody in his right mind would call prison a safer place than a baptist church in Texas where many in the congregation would be armed.
And speaking of prisons, let's turn our schools into the same experience. I'm sure the skill of making a knife from a spoon will serve our kids well in life.
I read some of your post above GG and I do think disorder recognition should be worked on when it pertains to gun ownership, but we all know that if someone wants a gun they can get it regardless. I think arming the right people in schools would be better. May be good to have some known to be armed and some not known.
You can ban guns, but only from law-abiding citizens. I have played in bands since I was 12. I have been approached several times by drunks trying to sell me a gun so they could get booze money. The war on guns will have the same stunning success as the war on drugs.
If you got rid of every single AR, the murdering criminal would just grab a handgun or a shotgun or yeah, eventually a Lee Enfield. He wouldn't suddenly become a sweet loveable human being. The type of gun didn't make him a criminal....he was a criminal who would use ANY type of gun. Or just run people over with a car. It's the sick "will to kill".... not the eventual tool that will remain the problem.
"You could but it never happens does it? ARs happen."
Drunk drivers kill over 10,000 people per year. That's better than 27 per day. Many are young children. Don't their deaths demand we do "something"? And these are deaths that are 100% preventable, right.
Perhaps limit the alcohol content. Can't buy bourbon or scotch, but beer or wine is OK. Where's the call to ban Bud, Coors, Miller, Makers,.....
We are a free nation, where you can even buy a Corvette that goes 180mph. Is that "necessary" when the speed limit is only 55mph? It sounds dangerous! But the point is that we are always innocent until proven guilty, and just because you COULD hurt people if you use something illegally and in a dangerous manner, you are not guilty in America unless you actually commit that act. Ban corvettes? Then what. Mustangs? Camaros? The next fastest. Then the next fastest? Chipping away at our collective freedoms without ever dealing with the individual accountability and the root cause of sadistic/psychopathic behavior.
The left is all about being IN CONTROL. They well know that as long as Americans have the option to exercise their American birthright of self defense they they can never be in control. They take awful circumstances like school shootings and exploit them to the extreme as a way of taking another chip out of our Constitutional rights.
Guns are not permitted behind prison walls. Yet, nobody in his right mind would call prison a safer place than a baptist church in Texas where many in the congregation would be armed.
We're going to be ok on this round of gun control. Trump is going to put armed security in all schools, arm the teachers, and we're going to loose bump stocks. He needs to include all CHL holders allowed on school property though. This will stop school shootings, the fountain of youth for the LWL's gun control. They're wanting to remove all guns and Trump is putting guns in they're homeland for teaching our children the LWL doctrine. Remember Bill Ayers, professor of elementary school teaching theory, teaching teachers how and what to teach our children. Now Trump is putting guns in Bill Ayers' class rooms to protect the children. God does have a sense of humor sometimes.
The only thing that will stop an evil person with a gun, is good men and women with guns.
ISIS is posting websites calling for their supporters, and Cruz was one of the supporters of ISIS and Resist. The LWL's answer is to take away all guns, starting with my rifle. LWL's want to disarm the American people right in the middle of a terror war.
