So what ??? One armed person in a school that size most likely isn't going to be a factor...... A locked down school with armed guards working metal detector stations would have.
He probably never expect it to happen and when it did he froze up, didnt react. I watched when the Columbine school shooting was live on tv and the LEO’s did nothing but stood behind their cars, not knocking LEO’s at all but when you have shootings like this you need trained combat people some people that will take the fight to the shooter not just some one with a gun. IMO you need people like my nephew....11 years Special Forces combat tested but guys like him once the get out of the military are on to bigger and better things.
Perhaps, like substitute teachers in many schools, he didn't have a key card to get into the school. The rush to judgment without knowing all the facts runs rampant.
No one knows the "why" in this new piece of information. Like Henry said, "This guy in FL must be feeling lower than low. I can't judge what he did or should have done, but he can't like how he feels right now. "
Jdee- the Columbine officers didn't go in because they were following their departments SOP. Patrol sets up a perimeter and waited for swat. That was in 99.
The SOP has changed since then. No more waiting for swat. If there is an active shooter today and is still in progress patrol immediately responds to the killing. To neutralize the threat.
IMHO the deputy in question should have had the candid talk with himself about not IF something is going to happen but WHEN something would happen what he was going to do.
Probably the same officer the student wheeled his rifle and ammo suitcase by going in.
Well the solution to all this is to keep these weapons out at all costs. Limit access points and install some kind of surveillance or person monitoring. Heck put in metal detectors if they have to. The 8 years of Obama telling us "guns are bad" and he does nothing is over.
Now we have a president that actually cares about the students...I'm confident we will see change.
There was a fire burning. Answer, set a backfire. NO other alternative. Standing down is not an option/ A man should not wear the badge if he is not able to perform his duty/.
Brownholearrow: This LEO never went into the building and he was suspended without pay and has resigned. With an LEO like that, they basically still had NO armed security.
We're going to be ok on this round of gun control. Trump is going to put armed security in all schools, arm the teachers, and we're going to loose bump stocks. He needs to include all CHL holders allowed on school property though.
This will stop school shootings, the fountain of youth for the LWL's gun control. They're wanting to remove all guns and Trump is putting guns in they're homeland for teaching our children the LWL doctrine. Remember Bill Ayers, professor of elementary school teaching theory, teaching children how and what to teach our children. Now Trump is putting guns in Bill Ayers' class rooms to protect the children. God does have a sense of humor sometimes.
The only thing that will stop an evil person with a gun, is good men and women with guns.
ISIS is posting websites calling for their supporters, and Cruz was one of the supporters of ISIS and Resist. The LWL's answer is to take away all guns, starting with my rifle. LWL's want to disarm the American people right in the middle of a terror war.
we don't know what his situation was but one thing is for sure............ all us bowsiters would have run in there armed or not and taken care of the situation quickly and with unwavering courage.
I believe the Officer was in a no win situation. If the officer would have got a few shots off at the suspect, and the suspect was firing back, and hit some kids, that Officer would be getting riddled about now, for going after the suspect, instead of waiting for backup. You know how the dems and the media, blame the police men and women every chance they get. The Police are made out to be the bad guy's.
It doesn't matter if he was in a no win situation...... In an active shooter situation... it was his job to immediately go to the shooting and confront the threat..... It is optimal to have more than one Officer to do that but you DO NOT wait for back up.........
If you die attempting to stop the shooter from killing kids.... hopefully you can take the shooter out too....
BB. I agree exactly with what you say. But if he went in and caused the Suspect to kill a few more kids, during a gun fight, the officer would have gotten ate alive, by the press, and lost his job, because of it. I fully agree that the officer should've confronted the threat.
I have been through active shooter training every year since it began......
Trust me..... Active shooter training dictates that he immediately go to the threat to attempt to neutralize it.....
He wouldn't get fired for following training protocol. If he did nothing.... he's a lowlife coward in my book.
It's my understanding that he was a sheriff's deputy and not just a guard..... in which case I know exactly what his protocol was..... and that is to immediately advance to the threat. It is also my understanding that he has resigned.......
We train with our actual duty weapons during active shooter training... including our patrol rifles. They load them up with simunition rounds.... and the bad guys shoot at us with sim rounds.......
The repeated training is meant to drill into your head what to expect and advance towards the threat even when being fired upon.... Of course you are going to have fear. But Police Officers like Marines must perform their duty in the face of fear.
Bentstick he already did lose his job and is getting riddled by his own boss. Saw him doing a press conference lastnight. and said they have him on camera just standing outside the school.
No..... I have never been sent to a school where an active shooter is shooting up the school..... And I'd like to keep it that way....
But I've responded code (Lights and sirens) numerous times to shots being fired,,,,,, The dispatchers reporting shots still being fired as I was rushing to the scene.....
And I was there when one of my partners shot and killed a car jacker.......
I know exactly what I would have done. You don't have to call him a coward,, That's fine. It's not your job to do what we signed up to do. It's no different than being a Marine.... we train train train..... so that when the shit hits the fan we can perform our duty in the face of fear. If we fail to perform..... we have no business being in this profession......
I guess now we know why the Broward County sheriff was deflecting so much on CNN the other night. His department is in part responsible for the deaths of 17 kids on their watch. Easy to point at the gun to hide the 3 fingers pointing back at you.
We have an extensive field training officer program designed to weed out those that aren't fit for this job. Is it perfect...??. No, but it's pretty damned good.
And once an Officer makes it through the FTO program they are given extended training throughout their career......
Unless you work in a tiny one cop town..... An Officer will be subjected to very high stress situations throughout their career.... The ones who can't handle the stress are easily identified.... and won't last long on the streets. You either learn to do your job despite the stress.... or you go find a desk job in the station.
All the more reason to arm the teachers that are willing to carry. If I have two dozen armed teachers in a school of 3200, some of them will engage the shooter.
If you have a flat tire in the middle of nowhere and your jack malfunctions, thats no reason to stop carrying a jack in your truck. Lawyers, surgeons, firemen, cops, salesmen, welders, teachers, and every other walk of life fails. That doesn't mean getting a tumor removed or having a lawyer during a divorce is the wrong choice.
Solving the cause of these incidents is a giant task. We don't know everything involved or how to correct it. All we can do is prepare for it while we work on fixing the cause.
I get frustrated waiting to be buzzed in at my kids school, but I am glad they lock up and I would be fine with one or two armed professionals and armed teachers. The kids never have to see the weapon, the security doesn't need to wear tactical gear, next level weapons can be locked up for quick access if needed and odds are they can work there 25 years and never have a real incident. They can work on anti-drug, anti-bullying, and running the archery program to keep busy.
This school had 3000 students. At $50ea, thats $150K to have 2 security guys work 9 months a year. Back that up with allowing teachers who train carry and the odds of someone engaging a shooter increase.
"It doesn't matter if he was in a no win situation...... In an active shooter situation... it was his job to immediately go to the shooting and confront the threat..... It is optimal to have more than one Officer to do that but you DO NOT wait for back up........."
Since Columbine and the lessons learned there that has been protocol. I believe I heard this officer was a decorated 30 year veteran of the force. I can't help but wonder if there was something in his past that caused him to freeze and stay outside for 4 minutes of the 6 that the shooting was going on. I am not making excuses for him, the bottom line is he failed to perform his duty.
None of us really know what we would do in a circumstance until we are exposed to it, but I hope I would do what is right and this officer didn't.
Historically Officers have taken jobs at schools and as Community Police Officers to get off the road....... This will probably forever change that mindset.....
If this guy failed to go to the threat as is being reported.... Then he should have retired prior to this.... If he wasn't prepared to do his job.
I will do my entire career in a scout car responding to calls for service.... No hiding out in some desk job for me.
I'd rather die trying to do the right thing than live the rest of my life like he's going to......
I understand, but I have never heard a law enforcement person talk down a fellow officer in such a manner... I cant imagine how that deputy feels, one moment he's walking the grounds thinking about retirement... in an eye blink he is the goat of 17 innocents getting slaughtered.
BB, My hat in your condemnation and your attitude. I would hope all LE display the heart and courage to protect my family as you have explained.
"Let's look at it another way. Maybe if the people that were called to this guys house time, and time, and time, and time again had followed their training, the "lowlife coward" security guard wouldn't have been forced to follow his.".........and would never had been revealed for who he truly is, a lowlife coward as BB has described. He would then be walking the school grounds this day as "false" security awaiting any other episode to fail that may occur.
This is all the more reason why there' needs to be more than one armed guard present. Maybe if this officer had another with him it may have made him react differently knowing that he had some backup. That, and at a school of over 3000 students and staff common sense would tell you that you need more than a single armed security officer....FAR more. Maybe they could base the number needed to protect our children on the number that we use to protect our politicians.
There's a difference in being a Good Samaritan like you did Kevin.... and being a paid Police Officer required to act.
I don't know the circumstances of his prior contacts with the police..... We often have repeat customers who are troubled but we don't have enough to arrest them.
so, you’re a teacher and you have a gun in your classroom. Except it's locked up and unloaded for storage at the end of the day or first thing in the morning.
1. you see a gunman walk into your classroom, you're screwed 2. you see a gunman walking down the hall, you still don't have time to unlock the cabinet, unlock the gun, load it and fire 3. you hear a gunman killing people in your school, you freeze, because you aren't in the military and used to people dying around you. 4. you somehow make it through steps 1,2 and 3, you shoot the guy as the cop shows up, who then thinks you're the shooter 5. instead of hitting the guy, you miss, and hit someone else, your student or your friend who is a teacher.
when you think it's good idea to arm teachers just remember you are telling them one day there going to have kill one their students. or what happens when a teacher gets jumpy and guns down little johnny because he whent into his pocket for his lunch money. because we already know trained cops are known for doing that.
Look, let's just leave guns out of the classrooms shall we?
Kevin.... If he was a 30 year veteran and still hadn't learned to ignore his fear and perform his job then there was something wrong there....
The most terrifying thing I ever did was drive my scout car directly in front of a car that was fleeing about 12 other Police Cars. The suspect had committed a bank robbery in another jurisdiction and was coming right at me into ours. It was against all human nature to intentionally cause a collision that might cause me grave bodily damage or even kill me. But to let the pursuit continue might have killed an innocent person at the next intersection. I saw him coming... and I knew what I had to do..... and I totaled one scout car and one suspect car and the bank robber is in prison today and no one got hurt.
"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyways"................... John Wayne.
Collateral damage is always possible. Practice and training helps eliminate some of that but even with a hit you can have a pass through. No one knows what will happen when resistance is given , however the great odds of there being fewer casualitys with no resistance are billions to one. You save the lives you can save and do what you have to do. We had a young man at the college shooting in S Oregon , Roseburg, that was armed and was ordered to stand down by his professor. He was obediant. Bet he will regret that all of his life. I wonder if someone may have told this cop to stand down or if he was ordered to wait for backup. This would lay the blame on whoever he was talking to . If that even happened. However as already mentioned , since the Colorado shooting protocol is to go in immediately in an active shooting .
God bless, Steve Could an anti gun sheriff in and anti gun town with an anti gun school ,create an anti gun department?
atheist, the wuss, is back. Stay at the back of the class loser. The women of Briarcliff Manor High School will do the men's work, while you hunker down in the back.
Active shooter training has been occurring all across the USA since shortly after Columbine.... and it is widely understood that you do not wait for backup in an active shooter..... I would bet my next paycheck and the one after that ........ that no one ordered him not to go into that school.
"so, you’re a teacher and you have a gun in your classroom. Except it's locked up and unloaded for storage at the end of the day or first thing in the morning."
Wrong. It's on your hip, where it needs to be. Go back to finding the AR-15 in the box of black dildos, you're even an embarrasment to imbeciles.
Dawn Hochsprung, Principal of Sandy Hook Elementary School, valiantly charged Adam Lanza as he began shooting up her school. She had true grit and Christ's love for her students and staff but she died vainly. She died and then Lanza started in on the little kids. I wonder if she would have liked to have access to a firearm in that moment? I wonder if she "felt safe" being unarmed as she dove at a homicidal maniac with empty hands?
There are over 350 MILLION guns in our country. Our kids are surrounded by guns every waking moment of their lives EXCEPT when they are in school. And they are safe. School is where they die in droves. I am losing my patience with the nonsensical musings of people who want to present our kids as sacrifices to their illusions of safety.
There should be no compulsory carry for teachers but for those who will take the mantle, let them be trained and let them be armed. Any current or future teacher who cannot function in a school under conditions that protect our children, is not qualified to teach. How do those teachers function in a society with over 350 million guns? How do they feel when they leave campus? Do they sleep under their desks at night?
Looks like Sheriff Israel was throwing the school guard under the bus to spin his way out of this............
BREAKING: Armed School Guard AND 3 BROWARD COUNTY SHERIFF’S DEPUTIES Waited Outside Parkland HS During Shooting
CNN reported:
When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff’s Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff’s deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.
With direction from the Broward deputies who were outside, Coral Springs police soon entered the building where the shooter was. New Broward County Sheriff’s deputies arrived on the scene, and two of those deputies and an officer from Sunrise, Florida, joined the Coral Springs police as they went into the building.
BB, hit it on the head in several post above...Same with our Deputies and Officers in near by jurisdictions for active shooter situations...Not only for schools, but any situation with active shooter/s...
Most of our schools throughout the county have ‘School Resource Officers’ assigned...Not only a presence on campuses, but the first to respond!
Inexcusable that the Deputies acted as they did...Even retired, I would ID myself and form up on another LEO to enter a situation if the need be...
Seems that a lot of people reported the killer but police did not file reports. Orders from headquarters. Reporters are finding out people are saying that nothing happened and there were no reports on this. Also they did not arrest students for crimes in school. Sort of like Holder not arresting obviously guilty blacks. The school security cams were set with a 20 minute delay so they could erase what they wanted. Broward County should change their name to Coward County.
Peter, for one, he's not a 'rent a cop'....A trained Deputy Sheriff! Second, I don't see anyone on here pretending or saying they're Rambo!
Everyone is going to react differently to situations...Since Columbine all agencies that I know of have some type of 'active shooter' protocol...
Prior to that, is was contain the situation until SWAT or Special Enforcement Details got there...That's what people saw on the Columbine shooting! No longer the case and I wont go into details about training on here, but it's a lot different now...
I fully understand the meaning of the word "coward," and I also fully understand the connotation when it is used in conjunction with "lowlife." ..........
That pig won't fly.... unless you consider the officer's actions to be "respectable"....
"Lowlife" = disreputable
I don't disagree with your contention that most people will not know how they will react until faced with the act. However, there is no need for supposition here. The pertinent factor in determining cowardice in this scenario has been revealed. Failure to maintain honour and respect of the accepted duties determined status of repute. The person acted both dishonourably and in a fearful fashion, the title of "lowlife coward" is appropriate and earned.
Like i said before atheist. Let the women of Biarcliff Manor High School carry the guns. Because a wuss like you will be at the back of the class. So LIAR, what do you teach, sewing??
Well you train for these situations...or at least you are supposed to.
Its a well known fact that appx 10% of the soldiers in WWII did all of the fighting. The rest were liberals.....
Seriously, the reason for the training is to overcome the instinct to run away....or cower. My guess is they just dumped this guy off on a cushy detail and forgot about him.....unfortunately it wasn't so cushy.
Minimally trained ordinary people successfully defend themselves with firearms all the time. You rarely see it reported on most mainstream media outlets.
Yup, trust the government to protect us. Consider the source on this one. We will have to wait to see if it is true. The leftist sheriff needs to be sued by relatives of the victims.
"When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school."
Uh Pete, the AR used at that school shooting was NOT a full auto, had NO bump stock and was in fact no different than any other semi-auto firearm used by the majority of hunters. Please get your facts straight.
Not a rent a cop Pete. A sworn Sheriff's Deputy. Active shooter training protocol dictates that he advance towards the threat immediately.... regardless if he was outgunned.
If it is factual that the school put the 20 minute delay on cctv boy that's a game changer... not only for this case but the previous hundreds of cases. I do believe that would be knowingly tampering with evidence... so much needs to be investigated pertaining to this debacle. Sheriff and all involved deputies need to be suspended come Monday morning!
Lets say a parent complains their son is being bullied and was beat up at such and such a time on such and such a day... oh lets check the footage... nope nothing here... we dont have bullying problems at our school! That just blows my mind that that could happen.
I just saw a video clip of that guard touting how great he was for stopping 4 suspects at a school in the past. he jokingly spoke how he chased 4 of them and caught 2 of them. This happened at a technical school in that area. The wife and I watched the video and both thought, what a self promoting jack a--
Pete: Have you been hanging out with LeftHandCanyonDopePusher?
I know what a bump stock is. Cruz DID NOT HAVE ONE. And you DO NOT NEED a bump stock to create autofire with a semi-auto. A belt loop does the same thing. Maybe we need to get rid of belt loops. Then we'd all look like 'hood rats with our pants around our knees.
That's what is coming out now..... When the Parkland Police Officers showed up.... The Coward (Broward) County Deputies were taking cover outside behind their cars.....
The Sheriff has some explaining to do about the lack of Active Shooter training for his Deputies..... before he's fired.
One must remember, we get the kind of government (all levels) that we vote for. Voters of Broward County put this turd into office...and he is responsible for the actions/inactions of his deputies.
It's no different than if your loved one were having a heart attack and that Deputy stood by and failed to start CPR. He had a duty to act and the protocol for an active shooter is to enter the building immediately and go to the threat. The protocol is national. It does not change from Department to Department. Period.
Yes, I understand the protocol didn't get followed. The only person who knew exactly what was going on and where he was is Cruz. Everyone else is playing catch up.
Don't know about the rest of you folks but I have two kids in school still. If I am anywhere near the school and hear about shootings guess who is going to try and crash through a window or the wall ,front door, etc. with my vehicle?? I am not waiting for someone else to take action or wait for dispatch orders....
No I am not a sheriff, policeman, or guard just a parent with kids in school and a friend to some of their classmates.
This poor kid decided to take his safety into his own hands.
"A student is in custody after bringing a gun and knife to a Salina elementary school on Friday."
"According to Salina Police, their investigation revealed the student brought the handgun to school as means of protection and had not made any overt actions or threats to place the school in imminent danger. The student’s actions were in response to fears over recent incidents of school violence and social media postings.
The parents were unaware their child had taken the handgun from the home and no charges against the parents are anticipated. The student is being referred to juvenile court."
Of course Cruz was the one who committed this atrocity, but he is a mentally ill young man that obviously needed intervention and not one, not friggin one agency stepped up... not even at the point of the crime... they friggin held back... that my friends is todays society!
"So trained, armed professionals wouldn’t engage a shooter? And a teacher will? Insanity".
I know it's hard for you to grasp, Paul, being the little coward you are.
But, there are a lot of Teachers that wouldn't hesitate for a second, to jump in front of their students in the face of danger. Because unlike you, their main concern is for the welfare of their students. Like the Principal at Sandy Hook, or the Coach at the recent Florida shooting.
Don't hurt yourself trying to figure it out, you'll never measure up to these hero educators who gave their lives for their students.
paulicia would be point manperson in the battle for they pronoun tee-tee privileges and would protect them to the death from trump words, but to use hesheit's quantico h-t-h combat skills on a real threat? talk to the hand, bishes! i'm outta heres & stuff!
Even the Sheriff himself said "When we in Law Enforcement respond to an active shooter...... we go in and address the threat..... That's what should have been done"..........
Now he has some explaining to do why his deputies didn't do that....... But the Coral Springs Officers did when they arrived.
"So trained, armed professionals wouldn’t engage a shooter? And a teacher will? Insanity."
In this case, teachers (and some ROTC students) ran toward the danger even though they were NOT armed. Had they been armed, the carnage would have ended much sooner with fewer casualties.