Colleges crumbling
Community
Contributors to this thread:
Yeah it was a good racket. Guaranteed student loans so they could continually jack up tuition whilst making debt slaves out of millions of young people.
Funny how the "invisible hand" is still at play...
Here UMASS pays out the top 400 to 500 state employee salaries with the basketball coach making $1mil a year and professors making $300000 to $400000 a year. Each year the tuition goes up and the college also gets awarded grants from the state. Just a pure liberal run business!
Colleges would do better to operate like trade schools for intellectuals. Get rid of liberal study requirements and expand internship (apprenticeship) involvement.
"Get rid of liberal study requirements and expand internship (apprenticeship) involvement."
As an engineer, I had no "liberal study" requirements and internship/co-op involvement was highly encouraged while I was getting my undergraduate degree. This obviously varies school to school and degree to degree, but my experience is that colleges and universities tailor their programs looking ahead as in what qualifications (curriculum, work experience, etc) will make our students most likely to land jobs associated with their degrees.
if you go to college and your degree is useless to you....it's your own fault.
Colleges are a money laundering Ponzie scheme. Students borrowing money (Sallie Mae) allows larger number of students to afford school. Because of the larger demand created by Sallie Mae loans, the number of openings in a school become limited- driving costs up. The higher costs then force the next "class" to borrow even more money creating an unending circle of rising costs. In effect, the colleges are getting richer on Sallie Mae money by laundering it through student loans.
We are now at the point where the cost of education exceeds its value. When STEM majors are graduating and getting $15/hr jobs with little or no bennies, one needs wonder is the time money and effort worth it?
Parents: you are better off buying your son or daughter a house for $120K and claiming the mortgage than investing the same amount in their education. Sonny and Missy can live fairly well on a mediocre salary when they have no mortgage to pay off. Your assets increase as housing cost rise and you get the mortgage interest as a deduction to boot!
My niece is a dental hygienist, two year degree. She started her first job at $37/hr.
Personally I think it's kind of ridiculous to pay a 20 year girl $75K a year to clean teeth, but that's what the market sez it's worth. lol
What has bothered me is High Schools here place most of the focus on pre college courses. Most of the money is spent on this. Most of the kids aren’t going to college. They have no idea where they are going after HS. My feeling is those 4.0+ kids are going to be ok. It’s the ones that are doing sub par in school that concern me. There needs to be a big push on providing training in the trades. Those things have disappeared out here where I live. Shop classes are no longer supported, college prep classes are. I was one of those kids that hated school. Every moment I could I was hunting, fishing or trapping. Fortunately we had good shop classes back then. Our Auto shop teacher was such a great kind man that would do everything he could on teaching us. I lasted 1 1/2 years in college and then started a long career as a mechanic. Tried a few other things along the way. How many young people that end up down the road in jail could have been prevented had high schools offered classes in the trades. I really wonder at times, do we need more attorneys or some other professionals? We will always need plumbers, electricians, mechanics and carpenters.
My kids have only been out of college a year and both of them have made more than I spent giving them a debt free undergraduate degree. It was the same when I got out of college. I borrowed the max and made double that the first year out of college. To me it's money very well spent.
It’s definitely an investment but college costs are just out of control. The student loan business are nothing more than loan sharks preying on gullible 18 year olds. Again, Germany offers college for free as long as you maintain a B average and remain in country for 5 years after graduating. Seems like a good deal!
You get a real STEM degree, there is no room (not much anyway) for liberal studies, by design...
Edit: yeah a good idea as long as someone else foots the bill.
I'd love to see liberal studies be the start of a college career. It's (that liberal studies start) not about gaining skills to work. It's about gaining the breadth of knowledge needed to learn the most - and then work the best - over the next 2, 4, 6+ years.
I'm going to be happy if my son or daughter say "Mom and Dad, I want to go to trade school to be a plumber / electrician etc". Cant outsource those jobs and the kid could build their own business and do well.
I'm going to be happy if they want to be a Vet, Physicist, Engineer, Researcher etc... as well. Different educational path, sure. But definitely worth the investment.
Pig Doc, I'm in full agreement.
I do think strategies which reduce cost make sense. Everyone "wants" this big name undergrad degree. I'd argue that if you are not 1000% sure what you want to be when you grow up, you could do 4 years at a local state school, spend less money, work hard to learn and grow, get good grades and then get a grad degree at the fancy school if you want. Or, do 2 years at a community college, 2 years at a local school and then go on.
Not on day one though. I know a lot of people with STEM degrees that became worth millions, and most are, if they use them.
Hell, mine is and I'm not even done yet...
Getting a common sense education can still be affordable, given that the student is willing to work their way toward their goal. Opting to satisfy basic requirements at a J.C. Level is the most reasonable approach.
My Son insisted on it, and he just needed to clear up a few General Ed requirements at the local J.C. before transferring, thanks to passing a number of AP courses in High School.
At 19, he's renting an apartment with a buddy, working as a Waiter, and finishing up his classes. Hasn't asked us for a dime so far. Transfers to the nearest State University next spring, and has already been assured his job will transfer.
My Wife and I both worked our way through College back in the Day (without loans), it can still be done, if your kids have the "right stuff"
Best of Luck, Jeff
atheist. After a kid goes through High School, with you as a teacher, it probably takes colleges a year to get the kids, out of the LYING BRAIN WASHING, that you put them through.
PigDoc, Thanks for illustrating my point.
I know a guy that's been going to college...on and off....since 1980. True story.
He was born wealthy and will die even wealthier. Never really worked much, didn't have to.
Success in life comes from putting your time in no matter what you do, willing to weigh and take risks.
Mi abuelo era uno de ellos, not a college grad, never worked for someone a day in his life, and was a self made millionaire starting and selling businesses.
If the feds didn't loan almost unlimited amounts, schools would be forced to only offer degrees that actually paid.
I like the idea of at least limiting loan amounts based on the potential income of the major.
It would force students and parents to consider the cost and potential advantage of both the major and the degree.