onX Maps
Time to teach the BIBLE in schools
Community
Contributors to this thread:
KSflatlander 29-Mar-18
MT in MO 29-Mar-18
Will 29-Mar-18
KSflatlander 29-Mar-18
TGbow 29-Mar-18
Will 29-Mar-18
KSflatlander 29-Mar-18
Will 29-Mar-18
Your fav poster 29-Mar-18
KSflatlander 29-Mar-18
KSflatlander 29-Mar-18
Bentstick81 29-Mar-18
TGbow 29-Mar-18
Will 29-Mar-18
JL 29-Mar-18
TGbow 30-Mar-18
TGbow 30-Mar-18
KSflatlander 30-Mar-18
Your fav poster 30-Mar-18
Will 30-Mar-18
TGbow 30-Mar-18
KSflatlander 30-Mar-18
TGbow 30-Mar-18
KSflatlander 30-Mar-18
TGbow 30-Mar-18
Owl 30-Mar-18
TGbow 30-Mar-18
70lbdraw 30-Mar-18
Owl 30-Mar-18
TGbow 30-Mar-18
TGbow 30-Mar-18
70lbdraw 30-Mar-18
Will 30-Mar-18
Owl 30-Mar-18
Owl 30-Mar-18
TGbow 30-Mar-18
DL 30-Mar-18
Bentstick81 30-Mar-18
70lbdraw 30-Mar-18
TGbow 30-Mar-18
Owl 30-Mar-18
bear2 31-Mar-18
ben yehuda 31-Mar-18
From: KSflatlander
29-Mar-18
I'm curious as to why your post title only mentions "The BIBLE?" Why not also the other religious text...Shreemad Bhagavad Gita, Quran, Tripitakas, Torah? Not everyone in public schools is a Christian.

From: MT in MO
29-Mar-18
The idea is not to teach the religious part of the bible, but the historical context of how the Bible influenced Western Civilization...very difficult for some people to grasp that idea...

From: Will
29-Mar-18
That's factually inaccurate. At least here in hyper liberal (I'm proud of that actually) MASS. the curriculum in public schools, I believe in either history or literature or both actually discusses in decent depth the bible, religion/s and other "holy" books.

I dont know if that's every year, but I know it's at least during middle school...

Is it a year long curriculum of religion education? No. But it's definitely well covered.

Beyond that, I wouldn't want more religious education in public schools. That's for parents and churches (should parents choose to involve their families with some sort of church).

From: KSflatlander
29-Mar-18
There is nothing wrong with learning. My point is only that all spiritual text is worth studying in the context of how it has influenced and shape civilization not just the bible. But if the point is to make all public school attendees worship the Christian bible then I don't agree. There is plenty of opportunity for that at church...almost every town has one. The Supreme Court has been pretty clear on this. We have no national religion so Christianity is not a requirement to go to public schools.

From: TGbow
29-Mar-18
As a Christian I think basic right and wrong is a good thing to be taught in school.

But, I don't want anyone teaching any particular doctrine to my child if my child went to public school.

It would open up a can of worms. It is a fact that most of the founders, even those that were notvChristians, understood our rights come from God...our humanity.

Our country was built on Biblical principals...to a degree.

Too bad slavery wasn't dealt with at the beginning, such an evil thing as it was.

Even though the Bible was our basic foundation, a mandated religion was never intended...that we do not need.

From: Will
29-Mar-18
KSFlatlander, I fully agree with that.

From: KSflatlander
29-Mar-18
Be careful Will...I'm a liberatard, leftist, or whatever name they give bowhunters like me. Some here might brand you through association...lol.

From: Will
29-Mar-18
KS, no worries... I suffered through a little period of becoming a libertarian, but other than that few year window, I've been swinging from the left side of the plate a long time now. (though technically an independent, who has voted for a few R's in my lifetime - even outside that "phase" I went through :)).

I've not been a CF "frequenting" bowsiter for long, but I suspect the crew here has noted I err a bit left of center.

Ill now duck and cover :)

29-Mar-18
The Bible and Christianity is taught in 9th grade world history as part of the Worlds Religions unit. We don’t delve anymore into Christianity than we do Confucius or Buddha. To teach or religion over another is propoganda. Isn’t that what you preach against? Aren’t you against indoctrinating? Oh! Unless it’s your agenda! Aaahhh. Got it now.

From: KSflatlander
29-Mar-18
Oh no...that’s not going to help things...

From: KSflatlander
29-Mar-18
Your fav poster...you must be a masochist

From: Bentstick81
29-Mar-18
atheist. Give it up clown. You are done. Just like you claimed to be an atheist, right??? 8^))) Ya right. And you don't tell any LIES, right??? PHONY!

From: TGbow
29-Mar-18
To each their own...but for the life of me I can't figure out why a person that enjoys hunting would support politicians that would make hunting illegal if they had the chance to.

From: Will
29-Mar-18
On a positive KSFlatlander, he's working awesome smokescreen for us :)

From: JL
29-Mar-18
Interesting topic. I Googled around and seen these listed as taught in the respective country's schools.

England[edit]

Religious Education (RE) is a compulsory subject in the state education system in England. Schools are required to teach a programme of religious studies according to local and national guidelines.

Religious Education in England is mandated by the Education Act 1944 as amended by the Education Reform Act 1988 and the School Standards and Framework Act 1998. The provision of Religious Education is compulsory in all state-funded schools, but it is not compulsory for any of the children to take the subject. The subject consists of the study of different religions, religious leaders, and other religious and moral themes. However, the curriculum is required to reflect the predominant place of Christianity in religious life and hence Christianity forms the majority of the content of the subject. All parents have the right to withdraw a child from religious education, which schools must approve.[1]

Additionally, all schools are required by law to provide a daily act of collective worship, of which at least 51% must be Christian in basis over the course of the academic year.[2] Sarah Smalley, the chair of the Association of Religious Education inspectors, advisors and consultants, stated that some "schools did have problems fulfilling the requirement for worship" due to what they thought was "a lack of space to gather the entire school for worship" although Smalley noted that "there is actually no requirement for such a gathering, as smaller groups are allowed."[3] The National Union of Teachers suggested in 2008 that parents should have a right to have specific schooling in their own faith and that imams, rabbis and priests should be invited to offer religious instruction to pupils in all state schools.[4]

England has a Local Agreed Syllabus which mandate subject teaching for each Key Stage and possibly for each school year. The Qualifications and Curriculum Authority has also produced the non-statutory National Framework for Religious Education, which provides guidelines for the provision of RE at all key stages, and models the eight-levels as applied in National Curriculum subjects.[5]

France[edit]

In France, RE is replaced by a non-religious moral teaching (called civic, legal and social education : éducation civique, juridique et sociale, ECJS). Children can additionally receive, on a voluntary basis, a religious education, either at school in private religious school, or outside of school, in their religious community, if they are in a public (State) school, though in some rare regions, the old Concordat being still an obligation because of the German occupation and the strong stand of population in favour of this (in the Alsace-Moselle mainly), religious education is made compulsory, and a dispense is necessary if the child refuses to be following religious education, which is set catholic.

Ireland[edit]

In Ireland religion is taught in a subject called Religious Education which is compulsory in many schools for the Junior Certificate, but available as an option for the Leaving Certificate[citation needed]. The course educates students about communities of faith, the foundations of the major world religions, the sacred texts, religious practices and festivals for Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Christians. Students also learn about religious change in Ireland, meaning in life, religious and non-religious responses to the search for meaning, atheism, agnosticism and other forms of belief. Students are also educated about morality in a number of different faiths and their moral codes.[citation needed]

Israel[edit]

Israeli school system includes State Schools; Religious State Schools; Recognized Schools and Exempt Schools, whose students are regarded as fulfilling the obligatory education.[6]

Japan[edit]

The prevailing view is that the religious education would contravene the constitutional separation of state and religion.[citation needed] In place of RE, there is a short but nonetheless compulsory subject called "Ethics" (?????? doutoku, lit. "morality") in primary school, where the purpose is to teach moral values rather than to teach ethics as an academic subject. However, despite the stated secular stance, references to the majority religions of Shinto and Buddhism are sometimes made in class texts.

Lebanon[edit]

Being a secular country, with no state religion, Lebanon is expected to have a neutral position regarding religious education in its schools, which is not the case in the country, as well as many European and American countries. Lebanon doesn't have a law concerning RE in its educational establishments. Schools have the right to either give RE classes, or do the opposite. Religious classes are not obligatory, nor banned, and they are not replaced by "ethics" classes. Private Schools (Christian and Muslim) give mandatory religious classes, reflecting their religious identification. Students from other religions don't take any classes during the religious ones, but they always can sign up for the RE class. Catholic schools give only Catholic classes, mandatory for Christian students, but can be signed up for by Muslim students, if not, Muslims do not take any classes in parallel to Christian ones. Public schools kind of have a more liberal religious program. A Lebanese public school may give, or not give RE classes, which regard the predominant religion of the population in the area the school is located in. Students have to take these classes, whether they are Christian or Muslim. A public school located in a mixed area would prefer not to give RE classes, unless voted oppositely by locals, RE classes may be both Christian and Muslim at the same time in this case, and students divide when this happens.[citation needed]

Malaysia[edit]

The Malaysian education system makes Moral Studies compulsory for non-Muslim students at secondary and primary schools. Muslim students instead partake in Islamic Studies lessons. Both subjects figure among the seven compulsory subjects undertaken by students for the Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia. There has been considerable debate about the usefulness of the "Moral" subject, primarily due to the strict exam-oriented marking-schemes.[7]

Norway[edit]

As of 2007 Article 2 of the Constitution of Norway mandates Evangelical-Lutheran parents to provide a religious upbringing for their children.[8] With the revision of the Constitution in 2012, this mandate was removed. [9] In the education system, religious education is found in a subject now labeled KRLE (Christianity, religion and ethical education). A minimum of 50% of the subject should be on Christianity, yet preaching has been disapproved since 1969. [10]

Scotland[edit]

Main article: Education in Scotland

In Scottish state schools, Religious Education is called Religious and Moral Education from ages 5 to 14, and Religious, Moral and Philosophical Studies from 14 to 18.

The majority of state schools in are non-denominational, but as a result of the Education Act 1918, separate denominational state schools were also established. The vast majority of denominational state schools are Roman Catholic but there are also a number of Scottish Episcopal schools. The school buildings are built and maintained by the Roman Catholic Church were handed over to the state under the Education Act. Since then,the Catholic schools are fully funded by the Scottish Government and administered by the Education and Lifelong Learning Directorate. As part of the deal, there are specific legal provisions to ensure the promotion of a Catholic ethos in such schools: applicants for positions in the areas of Religious Education, Guidance or Senior Management must be approved by the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland, which also appoints a chaplain to each of its schools. There is also one Jewish state primary school.

South Africa[edit]

The South African National Policy on Religion and Education adopted in September 2003 provides for Religion Education, i.e. education about diverse religions, which does not promote any particular religion in the public school curriculum. The policy does not apply to private schools.[11][12]

Middle East[edit]

The majority of middle eastern countries provide compulsory religious studies in both private and public schools. The religious studies in private schools can be based on the religious beliefs of the student and can be complied with by the school.

From: TGbow
30-Mar-18
I do wish they would quit teaching evolution as a fact, it's just a theory...which imo takes more faith to believe than creation. Also, the schools need to get out of the business of promoting liberal rhetoric and stick to education.

From: TGbow
30-Mar-18
BTW, I think the majority of teachers have good intentions and they know what works but the problem is their hands are tied with red tape that serves no benefit to actually educating the students.

My wife taught public school for 9 yrs and I have seen it first hand. Education should be handed back over to the states.

From: KSflatlander
30-Mar-18
Evolution is a theory because science can’t go back in time and do an experiment that takes millions of years. That does not make it untrue or mean it is debated by the science community. There is all kinds of evidence for evolution. The fossil record, micro evolution, simple organic molecules can naturally form more complex structures, vestigial limbs, etc. There is so much evidence in the natural world that evolution is not debated by the consensus of scientists. Because you choose to deny science does not mean evolution is not true. I think it’s best to let scientists decide what our science curriculum should be in our schools.

30-Mar-18
^^^^^

From: Will
30-Mar-18
Ditto KS and YFP.

STRONGLY ditto.

A scientific theory is not the "maybe this is right" sort of theory often used in conversation. Very different, and requires layer's of repeatable proof.

From: TGbow
30-Mar-18
Lol..I don't have enough faith to believe in evolution.

Evolution is not only a theory but it's a myth. If you're talking about real science, there is none to back it up..even Darwin realized this.

From: KSflatlander
30-Mar-18

KSflatlander's Link
TGbow- are referring to Darwin's deathbed conversion myth?

"There is also a myth out there that he recanted evolution on his deathbed and "returned" to Christianity. This is not true and, beyond creating a dichotomy where one didn't necessarily exist in Darwin's mind, has been denied several times by Darwin's descendants. To Darwin, religion and evolution weren't mutually exclusive"

From: TGbow
30-Mar-18
Honestly, I could care less what Darwin thought.

I can look at the creation of the himan body and know it had to be an intelligent design behind it.

People can believe what they choose but as for me I know I have a creator.

I will say though that some people do act with the sense of a monkey.

From: KSflatlander
30-Mar-18
I can respect that. I do believe in evolution but also believe we are not alone. The birth of my first born was evidence for me. Science can explain the biology of conception and birth but the love that filled me when I first laid eyes on my daughter is a creation of God. She has been in the woods with me since she was just out to diapers.

Happy Easter TGbow.

From: TGbow
30-Mar-18
Ryan, happy Easter to you and your family too.

I am spending today with my 14 yr old daughter and my 4 yr old grandson.

They are truely a blessing.

From: Owl
30-Mar-18
The dilemma is that some predominant moral value system is going to be taught.

From: TGbow
30-Mar-18
Pig Doc is right. To have a true freedom of religion nation, you open up a can of worms if you don't teach all religions from a historic perspective.

I am a Christian but I do not want anyone teaching my child any kind of religion from a theology stand point.

That is the parents place to teach the child their beliefs. Even though I know that faith through Christ is the only way for true salvation...it is not something you can force on anyone.

Teaching basic right and wrongs like you should not steal, murder or lie are values that can benefit all of society regardless of their faith or lack of faith.

From: 70lbdraw
30-Mar-18
Owl, are you referring to a system based strictly on religion, or in general?

From: Owl
30-Mar-18
I'm saying it is impossible to be irreligious. There is a popular fallacy that removing God from the public square is somehow neutral or unbiased.

From: TGbow
30-Mar-18
We should be able to acknowledge God in public.

There's a difference in acknowledging God vs mandating a religion.

From: TGbow
30-Mar-18
I agree.

From: 70lbdraw
30-Mar-18
Ok, so which "predominant moral value system" would you anticipate it being beside Christianity?

From: Will
30-Mar-18
Pig Doc - I can only speak to MA public schools - but Islam, is among the several religions taught.

From: Owl
30-Mar-18
Not what I "anticipate" - what is, clearly secular humanism.

30-Mar-18
As previously stated, religion is indeed taught with no favoritism towards any one religions. We teach the Crusades, and everything from Confucianism to Islam and everything in between. Its taught within a historical context and in chronological order as we do with most history units. If one wants their child to go to a parochial school, that is a choice, but public schools do a great job as it is.

From: Owl
30-Mar-18
I have no problem with religions being taught in school. Never said otherwise. Subject matter is not the question, the operational precepts are the issue.

From: TGbow
30-Mar-18
We studied about Islam and all other religions back in the 70s when I was in school but it wasn't from a promotional standpoint.

I talk to my kids about other religions and the fact that they have a right to worship how they choose.

As a Christian I pray for their conversion but support their right to do so.

Until an individual crosses the line of engaging in violence against US citizens they have the right to worship.

From: DL
30-Mar-18
The Old Testament can be taught as history of the Jewish nation. Atheist took a class to a Buddhist temple because they were studying China.

From: Bentstick81
30-Mar-18
I don't think so atheist. You are living proof of the DUMBA$$es teaching our children, and look at the difference between kids 40-50 years ago, compared to the kids today. Kids had respect for their parents, where as today, these kids don't, and are brain washed from idiot teachers, like you.

From: 70lbdraw
30-Mar-18
The "premise" of all religions should be taught. Most religious affiliation has a social status recognized around the world. It's part of our lives.

Getting specific on any one religion is asking for trouble.

From: TGbow
30-Mar-18
My wife taught public school for 9 years. My daughter has never been to public school.

From: Owl
30-Mar-18
"Getting specific on any one religion is asking for trouble." -Certainly asking for controversy which is right where we are now. And we are culturally failing to boot... super.

From: bear2
31-Mar-18
" You are living proof of the DUMBA$$es teaching our children, and look at the difference between kids 40-50 years ago, compared to the kids today. Kids had respect for their parents, where as today, these kids don't, and are brain washed from idiot teachers, like you. " I have a 19 yr old and a 27 yr old, both respect their parents, my 19 yr old daughter and I were talking the other night about the gun march last week, she can't believe people would want to give up their rights. If you have younger kids and they don't respect you and they are brainwashed it's the parents fault not the kids.

31-Mar-18
When I lived in the Middle East and studied Arabic at the university I quickly realized that Islam is an intrinsic part of Middle Eastern culture, politics, and language. A common phrase, heard every day, was "Insh'allah." If god wills. That is just one example. The Arabic language is filled with Islamic sayings. Even though Arabic as a language predates Islam and even though many Arabic speakers are not Muslim. To deny this reality, or to suggest that one can study Arabic language or Middle Eastern history while ignoring the Qu'ran and Islamic studies is silly and academically lazy.

Likewise, American history (specifically, anglo-American history) is so strongly influenced and shaped by the Bible that to understand the development of the english language and the growth of American cultural identity (from the early puritans settling New England to Manifest Destiny) one must understand the religious and philosophical views that shaped our history. Overwhelmingly, those views were derived from the Bible (not the Qu'ran, not Zoroastrian literature, etc.). To deny this is absurd.

Obviously, that does not mean public school teachers should be teaching Christianity as religious fact, or attempt to convert school children. But to say that one must give equal time to other religions, when teaching American history or literature, is ridiculous.

Sure, when teaching a religious studies class by all means give equal time to all of the world's major religions. But if you are teaching English literature and reading Anne Bradstreet, why would you bring up Islam? When discussing the reason for the earliest English settlers to come to the US, settlers who lived, wrote, and worked within a worldview shaped by a Biblical framework, you have to read the Bible to really understand them.

That should not be controversial.

  • Sitka Gear