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Contributors to this thread:
SamIam 13-Apr-18
JTV 13-Apr-18
Huntcell 13-Apr-18
tonyo6302 13-Apr-18
JTV 13-Apr-18
Grey Ghost 13-Apr-18
tonyo6302 13-Apr-18
Trax 13-Apr-18
Bentstick81 13-Apr-18
tonyo6302 13-Apr-18
JTV 13-Apr-18
Bentstick81 13-Apr-18
jjs 13-Apr-18
tonyo6302 13-Apr-18
Glunt@work 13-Apr-18
JTV 13-Apr-18
Bentstick81 13-Apr-18
K Cummings 13-Apr-18
JTV 13-Apr-18
Glunt@work 13-Apr-18
ben h 13-Apr-18
MK111 14-Apr-18
K Cummings 14-Apr-18
Grunt-N-Gobble 14-Apr-18
Glunt@work 14-Apr-18
Owl 14-Apr-18
JTV 14-Apr-18
SteveBNY 14-Apr-18
Kevin @ Wisconsin 14-Apr-18
MK111 14-Apr-18
JL 14-Apr-18
K Cummings 14-Apr-18
K Cummings 14-Apr-18
K Cummings 14-Apr-18
JTV 14-Apr-18
longbowbud 14-Apr-18
K Cummings 14-Apr-18
sleepyhunter 14-Apr-18
K Cummings 14-Apr-18
K Cummings 14-Apr-18
Owl 14-Apr-18
Rocky 14-Apr-18
Glunt@work 14-Apr-18
K Cummings 14-Apr-18
ahunter55 14-Apr-18
Mike B 14-Apr-18
JL 14-Apr-18
keepemsharp 14-Apr-18
tonyo6302 14-Apr-18
K Cummings 14-Apr-18
thecanadian 14-Apr-18
Michael 14-Apr-18
K Cummings 14-Apr-18
Michael 14-Apr-18
thecanadian 14-Apr-18
K Cummings 14-Apr-18
Michael 15-Apr-18
JTV 15-Apr-18
K Cummings 15-Apr-18
Bou'bound 15-Apr-18
Bou'bound 15-Apr-18
JTV 15-Apr-18
K Cummings 15-Apr-18
longbowbud 15-Apr-18
K Cummings 15-Apr-18
K Cummings 15-Apr-18
longbowbud 15-Apr-18
longbowbud 15-Apr-18
K Cummings 15-Apr-18
longbowbud 15-Apr-18
Huntcell 15-Apr-18
MK111 15-Apr-18
longbowbud 15-Apr-18
RutnStrut 15-Apr-18
Rocky 15-Apr-18
From: SamIam
13-Apr-18
If you guys want to see some entertainment, go check out the Wisconsin Forum, posts: Crossbow vote and April 11 NRB Meeting. All I can say is WOW

From: JTV
13-Apr-18
went there, dropped my 2cents and left ...

From: Huntcell
13-Apr-18
Harkens back to the golden nugget (baiting) times. Pat had to finally step in and spank a few naughty boys.

From: tonyo6302
13-Apr-18
. . . . then there is the Compound Rifle . . . . .

. . . . .

.. .. ..

Front Sight, Rear Sight, Trigger Release . . . . .

. . . . I find it so ironic that Compound Hunters bash the crossbow . . . . . . .

P.S. Save your fingers and breath - I was around when the same arguments were against Compound Bows.

LOL. !

From: JTV
13-Apr-18

JTV's embedded Photo
JTV's embedded Photo
one is shoulder fired, precocked and shot like a firearm, can be shot off a bench, shot from shooting stakes, or with a folding bipod ... the other has to be drawn in the presence of game, and Hand held .... two different tools ...

From: Grey Ghost
13-Apr-18
I added my solution to the thread.

Matt

From: tonyo6302
13-Apr-18
Blinds with shoot through mesh . . . .

.. .. . .

. .. .

Compound Rifles - Front Sight, Rear Sight, Trigger Release. . . .

From: Trax
13-Apr-18
There is no similarity or comparison between a compound and a crossgun. For the reasons illustrated well by JTV. If they are going to allow crossguns during archery season they should allow airguns and muzzleloaders and shotguns. they are all roughly accurate to about the same distance and fire the same way.

From: Bentstick81
13-Apr-18
JTV nailed it. Not having to worry about getting busted on the draw is a HUGE advantage. I don't have a problem with people with disabilities to use them during archery season.

From: tonyo6302
13-Apr-18
"Not having to worry about getting busted on the draw is a HUGE advantage."

.. .. .. .

.. .. ..

Blinds with shoot through mesh . . . . . .

Next question, in regards to Cross Guns or Compound Guns . . . . . . ?

From: JTV
13-Apr-18
Tony dont be so obtuse .. sheesh ..... a vertical bow still has to be hand draw/hand held ... the two tools are not similar..... next you will be saying the airbow is a bow ..... smh ...

From: Bentstick81
13-Apr-18
I would like to see people use a blind where i hunt. They will pick you out easily, brushed in or not. They are spooked of ground blinds. Turkeys are not spooked of them, though.

From: jjs
13-Apr-18
The State of Wi. did not define the x-gun to be in the bow season, it was an end around by the NRA and lobbyist and was given its own season that ran with the bow season. Transexual is being accepted in our society and so is this in bowhunting, reminds me of Full Metal Jacket, this is my gun and this is for fun (Richard) for the ones that didn't see the movie.

From: tonyo6302
13-Apr-18
LOL !

Have I mentioned 80% letoff yet ?

Hate my opinions if ya want, but I refuse to lie to myself.

From: Glunt@work
13-Apr-18
I didn't find it entertaining. Disappointing would be a better fit. Partly because having another season run concurrent with bow season isn't a benefit to bowhunting and partly due to the poor manners displayed by some on both sides.

From: JTV
13-Apr-18

JTV's embedded Photo
JTV's embedded Photo
Tony, you are lying to yourself ......

From: Bentstick81
13-Apr-18
When the deer outsmart the hunter, and the hunter didn't do his home work and set up in the right place, we give you CROSSBOWS. That way you can shoot farther, and introduce more wounded game. I shoot a recurve, don't use stands or hut blinds. I try and do my home work, and been more times than not, i couldn't close the deal because i wasn't set up in the right place. The deer won. But, i learn a lot when i do fail.

From: K Cummings
13-Apr-18
There is no doubt in my mind that a crossbow meets the definition of a bow.

"bow

a weapon for shooting arrows, typically made of a curved piece of wood whose ends are joined by a taut string.

synonyms: longbow, crossbow; recurve"

KPC

From: JTV
13-Apr-18
But KPC, youve never been right ... :0)

From: Glunt@work
13-Apr-18
Crossbows shoot bolts. Or they did until calling them arrows was deemed helpful in getting them included in bow season.

From: ben h
13-Apr-18
KPC, By that definition of what a bow is, anything that can launch an arrow would be considered a bow and while I don't disagree with a crossbow, not being a bow, because it does have a lot of similarities, it doesn't meet the definition of what "archery hunting equipment" is defined as in any state that I'm aware of unless you're disabled and can't draw what most people and states consider what a bow is as it pertains to hunting.

Sort of like with waterfowl hunting they make it really clear that you need to use a shotgun or archery. Nobody really takes the argument that a centerfire rifle meets the criteria of a shotgun because when you pull the trigger they both fire a projectile.

From: MK111
14-Apr-18
In fighting like this is what's going to kill hunting. Every hunting sport doesn't like or approve of anything they don't do. If they don't do it it's wrong and should be stopped. Nothing legal is wrong and is OK in my mind.

From: K Cummings
14-Apr-18
“KPC, By that definition of what a bow is, anything that can launch an arrow would be considered a bow...”

An “airbow” clearly does not meet the definition of a bow.

KPC

14-Apr-18
We, as hunters, are destroying ourselves. The infighting is spectacular and sad all at the same time. All the antihunters need to do is sit back and watch.

From: Glunt@work
14-Apr-18
Infighting is sad. I hope crossbow manufacturers and users stop the fight they started for full inclusion in bow season.

From: Owl
14-Apr-18
The crossbow is merely the next gen refinement of the compound. Sorry, but the compound bow market -and all those participating- brought us to this point.

tony is 100% correct about the "inclusion of the compound" in archery seasons. I remember those times and how the trad guys regarded wheelie guys as scabs. The exact rationale and arguments to the word were used against compound shooters. It was a shame then and it is a shame now.

From: JTV
14-Apr-18
No, it is the idea of keeping BOWhunting "BOW"HUNTING and keeping it vertical... all shoulder fired weapons/tools should be placed in the gun seasons... BTW, Crossguns shoot Bolts or "quarrels" not arrows .... the term and use of "arrows" is way of the mfgers to deceive people with marketing lingo making the use more palatable to the unknowing public ......

From: SteveBNY
14-Apr-18
There is 1 reason and 1 only why someone uses a compound instead of a recurve or longbow - they either want or need easier. And this is fine - until they demand their level of easier for archery equipment be the line no one else can cross.

14-Apr-18

Kevin @ Wisconsin's embedded Photo
Kevin @ Wisconsin's embedded Photo

From: MK111
14-Apr-18
Has anyone hear of or just believe in different? Just because someone uses something different than what you believe in and use doesn't make it wrong. Trad users said the same thing years ago when the compound came along. Then the same problem happened when the mechanical release was suggested. Then the crossbow issue came up and the compound users think it's all wrong. Ohio has had legal crossbow hunting for years and the sky has not fallen and will not. It has brought 1000"s of hunters into the sport and that is good for the hunting sport. The only reason Ohio's deer numbers has fallen is because the Game Dept permitted too many deer is some areas to be taken.

I started deer hunting in Ohio in 1972 and was lucky to take a 9 pt buck. The year of 1972 only about 5800 deer was taken in the whole state. Yes 5800 is correct. Then the deer kills numbers just keep climbing and topped out about 2009 at over I believe 200,000. Then the number of kills dropped to last year 186,000. And all I hear is the sky is falling and some blame it on the full season of crossbows.

In my lifetime I have come full circle on deer hunting in Ohio from almost zero to good healthy numbers and crossbows has not caused any problems. In NW Ohio I never seen a deer until 1961. When I moved to SW Ohio in 1976 there was no gun season here.

What am I saying with this history lesson? Crossbows are here to stay and as the present hunters get older and either can't use a compound or trad bow they will switch to a crossbow or just quit bow hunting which will be a shame. More of the busy younger generation will come into the sport using crossbows and that OK to keep the hunting sport alive.

Just because you don't use it or believe in it that's no reason to stop it. If it's legal is's OK. IMHO

I started hunting trad in 1972, but due to reasons I got away from bow hunting. Years later I got back into bow hunting with a compound bow because of the left off pull. Due to MS nerve damage I could no longer pull a compound bow back anymore so I got a attachment to mount on the compound bow to make it a vertical crossbow. That worked for 5-6 years and due to advanced MS nerve damage I no longer can no longer hold the bow at arms length steady enough to hunt. So I switched in 2017 to a crossbow and took a 10 pt buck.

So was I to be denied bow hunting because some bow hunters don't believe in crossbows? I say no and don't really want to hear about the lame excuses of crossbows use only because of disabilities.

From: JL
14-Apr-18
I wonder if the spear and rock hunters were saying the same thing when the trad bows came along? (Yes...I'm being sarcastic)

IMO.....as long as it's legal, it's ok with me. I've always said if there was a rock-throwing season for deer...I'd be there.

From: K Cummings
14-Apr-18
"The crossbow is merely the next gen refinement of the compound. Sorry, but the compound bow market -and all those participating- brought us to this point."

I understand what you're saying Owl, but the crossbow actually predated the compound bow by a couple thousand years.

Heck, the repeating crossbow predates the compound bow by a couple thousand years also.

KPC

From: K Cummings
14-Apr-18

K Cummings's embedded Photo
K Cummings's embedded Photo
Crossbow from the Qin Period.

KPC

From: K Cummings
14-Apr-18

K Cummings's embedded Photo
K Cummings's embedded Photo
Repeating crossbow from the Han Period.

KPC

From: JTV
14-Apr-18

JTV's embedded Photo
JTV's embedded Photo

From: longbowbud
14-Apr-18
Is Ohio a one buck state?

From: K Cummings
14-Apr-18
ar·row

noun: arrow; plural noun: arrows

a shaft sharpened at the front and with feathers or vanes at the back, shot from a bow as a weapon or for sport.

synonyms: shaft, bolt, dart

From: sleepyhunter
14-Apr-18
I don't have a problem with crossbows, if a person wants to hunt with one I don't have a problem with that either. In the end I'm going to shoot/hunt with my Blacktail recurve.

From: K Cummings
14-Apr-18

K Cummings's embedded Photo
K Cummings's embedded Photo
"I wonder if the spear and rock hunters were saying the same thing when the trad bows came along?"

That's an easy one JL. History shows that advancements in technology are often met with scorn and disdain.

:)

KPC

From: K Cummings
14-Apr-18

K Cummings's embedded Photo
K Cummings's embedded Photo
"I don't have a problem with crossbows, if a person wants to hunt with one I don't have a problem with that either. In the end I'm going to shoot/hunt with my Blacktail recurve."

That's exactly the way I feel sleepy. I'm content using my ILF Tradtech Titan. (which ironically, some of the traditional elitists say is "cheating").

After much argument, and doomsday predictions, crossbows have been legal in MI for a number of years. I've never used one, nor do I have any desire to ever use one. Heck, I don't even have a desire to use a compound. Having said that, I don't see any of the negatives that were supposed to happen coming to fruition.

At the end of the day, on the list of the top 5 things that threaten bow-hunting, I'd put crossbows at about number 11.

KPC

From: Owl
14-Apr-18
Kevin, I've used that argument many times in the past. And while it's true, I like reminding the "vertical only" guys that our purchasing habits have brought us this ridiculous hair splitting exercise.

From: Rocky
14-Apr-18
Arguing the weapon's design, class, intent and capability will be grist for the mill to be ground for some time to come.

IMO this calls into account the reason and ideals and of those who would use such a weapon and how they would refer their classified sport specific association. Handicapped of course aside. Satisfaction and self accomplishment to the hunt can be a thousand shades of gray.

The use of this weapon and to classify yourself a modern day bow-hunter is misleading to all within earshot and most importantly yourself. The hand held hand drawn compound bow is universally regarded as the weapon of choice to the majority of bow-hunters, never intending to upstage the stick shooters. This particular weapon as pictured and its range most certainly degrades the effort and stealth required to become intimate with your quarry. The exhilaration of anticipation once the target is detected, although counter to what your cardiologist may believe, IS the primary driving force to the hunt supplanting outright survival. This sensation is today as it was a ten thousand years ago when our ancestors began to close the distance. Hunger and survival spiked the adrenaline then, the same that overcomes us today at the slightest sound or view. A hundred yards out I could be smoking a blunt and calling "knock" in the card game before the shot. 118/70 and my cardiologist may be happy as I anxiously await that sensational reward of the sounds and shadows of hope as light begins to break.

The Rock

The Rock

From: Glunt@work
14-Apr-18
Crossbows aren't evil. They are just a weapon. I like weapons of all sorts. I have a couple 1000 yard rifles. Technology surpassed archery hundreds of years ago. Weapons more efficient and easier to use than archery have been around a lot longer than anyone on this thread has. Bowhunting is purposely about using technology far behind whats available. That simple fact is why we have longer seasons, less crowding, easier access to tags, and often more seasons falling during the elk or deer rut.

Did the sky fall due to compounds? Depends. They had the positive effect of making bowhunting popular and growing numbers which grew influence with wildlife departments and exploded into a decent size industry. They absolutely had negative effects as well. It increased competition for limited tags, property access and crowding in the field.

The stuff that makes bowhunting great is tied to the limited capability and higher learning curve our equipment requires. If you chip away at a stone long enough, you no longer have stone.

From: K Cummings
14-Apr-18
What people seem to lose sight of is the fact game departments expand and contract seasons, methods, and allowable weapons based on the management goals they are trying to achieve.

At the end of the day, a dead deer is a dead deer and that's what tags are based on. I have yet to see a study that shows success rates for crossbow hunters are significantly higher than those of compound hunters so really what difference does it make what tool a hunter chooses to use. A recent Wisconsin study showed that 34% of crossbow hunters were successful in taking a deer compared to 33% of vertical bow hunters. If vertical bow hunters (compound/recurve/longbow) are successful in taking a deer at the same rate as crossbow hunters, what's the problem other than the impression that someone has it easier than someone else.

Many areas, including the ones I hunt, have less deer than they did in years past, however it has nothing whatsoever to do with the crossbow. Game departments are doing everything they can possibly do to encourage more people to kill more deer.

KPC

14-Apr-18
I hunt with my guns, my recurve, my longbow, my compound, knives and dogs. Looks like I need to check out one of these new fangled bowrifles. I can see many interesting hunting scenarios where this would be exactly the right tool.

From: ahunter55
14-Apr-18

ahunter55's embedded Photo
ahunter55's embedded Photo
So I'm guessing crossbow is another generation. Since I started in 1956 I have seen so many "things" that were the "end" of it all. Releases was a real big one in 1968.

From: Mike B
14-Apr-18
Another crossbow thread...??

Many of you weren't around back in the old Leatherwall days (like 18-20 years ago), but that Wisconsin thread wouldn't make a pimple on the arse of some of the knock-down drag-out battles over this subject that took place back then. IIRC, the only thing that got Too Short more upset were debates on riding those 4-wheeler's around hunting country.

Ain't nuthin' gonna be said that hasn't been said already...

From: JL
14-Apr-18

JL's Link
Kevin sez.....""At the end of the day, a dead deer is a dead deer and that's what tags are based on. I have yet to see a study that shows success rates for crossbow hunters are significantly higher than those of compound hunters so really what difference does it make what tool a hunter chooses to use. A recent Wisconsin study showed that 34% of crossbow hunters were successful in taking a deer compared to 33% of vertical bow hunters. If vertical bow hunters (compound/recurve/longbow) are successful in taking a deer at the same rate as crossbow hunters, what's the problem other than the impression that someone has it easier than someone else.""

Kevin, I posted that link on the Wisconsin forum. It has some good info in it about Wisconsin hunters. If that is where you got your stat.....it also says the number of vert archers is declining and cross bowers are increasing. That should account for the higher harvest rates for cross bowers.

From: keepemsharp
14-Apr-18
It probably doesn't matter to the crossgun folks but I shoot my bow both vertical and horizontal.

From: tonyo6302
14-Apr-18
I wonder, what is the percentage of Bowhunters who have never shot Traditional for an entire season, or at all ?????

From: K Cummings
14-Apr-18

K Cummings's Link
JL:

Actually, I got my stats at the attached link.

The number of hunters using each type of bow is irrelevant, it's the success rate of each that is important.

If the success rates are about the same, which they appear to be, it shows that as a killing machine, the crossbow is no more efficient than a vertical bow. In other words even if every compound hunter switched to a crossbow, the effect on the resource would be the same as if they were all using a compound.

Now, if the crossbow success rates were as high as those of rifle hunters (46%), there would be a valid argument that it would have too much of an impact on the resource, but they aren't...and they won't.

Ten years ago, I was as adamant about NOT wanting crossbows in the regular archery season as anyone. I believed all the doomsday predictions. After seeing the actual numbers, I've come to the conclusion that it was much ado about nothing.

KPC

From: thecanadian
14-Apr-18
That thread is downright shameful and childish. The language and demeanor of those representing my home state is a black eye to the entire hunting community. At best, I find most of their talking points to be hypocritical. Many of the same talking points used pitting bows against crossbows can be negated in the method in which they are used. It is easy to point to one weapon as being superior but hard to legislate against certain hunting situations having a clear advantage. I wonder how many of the loudmouths on that thread hunt private land? Do they hunt over a food plot/ bait? Did they carry their tree stand with them and set it up every day? If they left a tree-stand/ground blind up, were they able to brush it in? Did they cut clear shooting lanes? Were they able to drive a 4-wheeler to aid them in dragging out the deer? Did they choose a compound over recurve? Not that I'm against those that do those things (where legal of course), but they do make hunting easier and can lead to a much higher success rate then someone not doing them.

From: Michael
14-Apr-18
Kevin,

I agree with you when the success percentages are the same. It shouldn’t really matter to hunters how the deer is killed.

JTV”s link brings a lot of info to the table when it comes to Wisconsin’s numbers. Last year crossbow hunters finally surpassed bow hunters in actual deer harvested. The percateges are big. 56.9 % of crossbow hunters killed a deer. Compared to 29.5% of bow hunters killed a deer. In a state that doesn’t limit its tag sales it’s a mute point to a certain extent. I would think the State would change something to limit the amount of deer taken. However in a state that does limit tag sales. Wouldn’t it be wise of the state to separate the two in tag sales. The state could sell more tags to bow hunters then crossbow hunters and still kill the same amount of deer.

I like you hated crossbows when they first came on the scene in the Midwest. After the first two years of Ne allowing them I never noticed a huge uptick in hunters in the field toting crossbows. I changed my thoughts on the subject. I really don’t care if I hunt a long side a hunter packing a crossbow. I tend to worry about what’s in my hands compared to what’s in the guys hand across the road from me.

I started my archery career when I was 15 and I packed my dads hand me down Herters recurve in 1987. My parents bought me my first compound that year for Christmas. I have been shooting a compound ever since.

I have no interest in shooting a crossbow until the day comes I can’t pull a bow back. I would rather be hunting when that day comes then hanging up my hunting boots forever.

From: K Cummings
14-Apr-18
"JTV”s link brings a lot of info to the table when it comes to Wisconsin’s numbers. Last year crossbow hunters finally surpassed bow hunters in actual deer harvested. The percateges are big. 56.9 % of crossbow hunters killed a deer. Compared to 29.5% of bow hunters killed a deer."

Where are you seeing that Michael? I cant find the link you are referring to.

KPC

From: Michael
14-Apr-18
My mistake Kevin. It’s JL’s link. Sorry for the confusion.

From: thecanadian
14-Apr-18
I looked at the link, kind of confusing. If the information is true, Wisconsin sold roughly half of the crossbow license then the previous three years with slightly better harvest. Look at my link and scroll down to page 34. This will give definitive (not preliminary) results of previous hunts in Wisconsin. http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/Hunt/documents/WeaponUseReport.pdf

From: K Cummings
14-Apr-18
Actual Michigan harvest reports show the following:

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/3485_236922_7.pdf

In 2007 (pre- crossbow inclusion) overall bow hunting success rates were 34.6%. (page 34)

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/2016_deer_harvest_survey_report_575841_7.pdf

In 2016 (crossbow inclusion) the overall crossbow success rate was 33.6%. (page 57)

I'm just not seeing where the crossbow is some super killing machine that is going to be the ruination of bow hunting seasons. It might well be getting more popular (especially in the older age group) but it doesn't seem to be any more efficient at killing deer.

KPC

From: Michael
15-Apr-18
I agree with you Kevin.

Thinking back I can only think of 2 times I was caught drawing and could have gotten a shot off with a crossbow. If I had gotten a shot off it would have been at an alert deer.

Of them 2 occurrences the first one I was able to grunt the back in and shot him anyway. The second one I ended up killing a different buck 6 days later.

I have no idea how far a person can shoot a crossbow. I would guess it’s no different then a bow or a gun. Some guys can shoot farther then the next. I set my stands up where I will get a shot inside the range I want the deer. If there not in range then I move the stand.

From: JTV
15-Apr-18
it wasnt my link.... but they did take more critters (crossgunn shooters in Wisc.) .. all this crap wont change my perspective on the damn things... all shoulder fired tools should all be together in gun seasons... IMO ..

From: K Cummings
15-Apr-18
”all this crap wont change my perspective on the damn things...”

From an emotional standpoint, I get what you’re saying. Ten years ago I was right there with you. However, having lived with them in my state for the better part of the last decade, I just don’t see the horrible predictions coming true.

In my opinion, we have bigger fish to fry. CWD is going to affect how hunting infinately more than crossbows ever will.

KPC

From: Bou'bound
15-Apr-18
Bringing the WI Forum here to make it easier for you all:

Well name your county and what do you think,,,,,, In Washington County the cross bow advocates won hands down,,,,,, the air bow is next,,,,, what can I say,,,, if there was anyone else, not in favor of full inclusion, they sure did not back me up,,,, because I never heard a word from them........ I was out there on my own, that is for sure..... Saw some WBH jackets at the meeting, did not see them say anything though,,,,,

The Pro Cross bow guys for full inclusion, did speak, ,,,,,,,,,, will be interesting to see how the state went on this

From: Bman

09-Apr-18

Private Reply

La crosse co. Older people think they are going to take their crossbows away. Did they read the entire question? Curious to see how #53 went.

From: Drop Tine

09-Apr-18

Private Reply

66 attendees in Lincoln County. More talk for support of crossbows than against. No talk at all on air powered weapons. Nice to see some groups of younger people tonight.

From: ground hunter

09-Apr-18

Private Reply

Sad to say people are stupid, how hard is it to read, that question,,,,, you cant fixed stupid

From: Reggiezpop

09-Apr-18

Private Reply

Milwaukee County seemed about 50/50. The older hunters were for limiting the season, and younger ones were for keep it as is. Gonna be a tough road ahead.

From: ground hunter

09-Apr-18

Private Reply

My friend just told me, all support for the cross bow in Vernon county

From: RutnStrut

09-Apr-18

Private Reply

Sadly there was a lot of vocal support for crossbows in Chippewa county. Really though what difference does it make what the vote is? The vote was never in favor of crossbows, yet here they are.

From: albino

09-Apr-18

Private Reply

I was told that in Columbia County there was all but 2 were for xbows & that one old guy asked the dnr if that meant that he couldn't hunt with his any more & the dnr said I don't know. The answer was right in the question. I guess they can't read. It got a bit heated in Jefferson County after I spoke. Then the CC chairman said Whats the difference what weapon someone uses as long as we get new hunters. Then I had to speak again. He wouldn't even look at me after the meeting. I had a few people thank me after but I doubt it was enough.

From: ground hunter

10-Apr-18

Private Reply

Our WCC guy, he was clueless,,,, he said "well we can not take any more comments, we will be running late",,,,,,,,, the crowd did not like that, and one guy said, listen, its here in the rules, we have the right to be heard, for 3 minutes, and you have the duty to respect our thoughts, other wise, why in the hell are we here,,,,,,,,,, This guy was pro cross bow, but he was right on that issue...... So it continued, but there was not doubt in my mind,,,,,, The WCC head did not like that question, he was bias against it, and tried to shut it down,,,,,,,,, I am fed up with the WCC,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

From: Drop Tine

10-Apr-18

Private Reply

If the comments become repetitive or sway from the original topic the question will be called and a vote taken and move on to the next question. To keep things moving in a somewhat timely fashion.

From: ground hunter

10-Apr-18

Private Reply

sorry, I was there, maybe that is how it is suppose to be, but it is not what happened,,,, no way, to sugar coat it, I am not an idiot,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I stand by what I said, and I have never missed a meeting, unless I had to work, and always backed the WCC, but not anymore....... The same guy, allowed repetitive comments like you say, go on and on, about some fishing rule, but as soon as the cross bow issue came up, he was going to be quick to put a lid on it,,,,,,, to his credit, he did not, but than again, the mood of the crowd may have swayed him.....

Everyone was very civil and respectful, which they should be, but that is what they came to this meeting for,,,,, and you would have to be out of touch, not know that......

From: Drop Tine

10-Apr-18

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“The same guy, allowed repetitive comments like you say, go on and on, about some fishing rule, but as soon as the cross bow issue came up, he was going to be quick to put a lid on it,,,,,,, to his credit, he did not” So then what’s the issue if he let the comments continue? Did you listen to the opening statement of rules that is read at the start of the hearing in all 72 counties?

From: ground hunter

10-Apr-18

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I am not going to argue with you about this,,,,,, its over with,,,, as I said, it continued only because the crowd, got so loud about it, he did not have much choice,,,,,, its over with,,,,,,,

From: Pasquinell

10-Apr-18

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Over 100 people at the Kenosha meeting. Group hunting/sharing tags got more vocal involvement than anything followed by the goose roundups. The easier weapon is here to stay I'm afraid as it seemed like this meeting was just a formality and the "vote" has already been decided before the meeting.

The main reason I went wasn't for the vote per se but in hopes of our freinds who banter on and on how nobody gets involved will find other arguments. HA!

Disclaimer - I truthfully didn't go, read it in the paper

From: Bloodtrail

10-Apr-18

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Well Pasq - Glad to see you left the couch! Hopefully ya enjoyed the evening!

From: GoJakesGo

10-Apr-18

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My wife and I attended Lincoln Co. Had to leave for work after question 17. Seems the questions are vague and cause confusion. Hard to get any clear info from the table guys-if they had any. I voted so at least I have the right to groan. Thousands use the resources and only 66 shared their voice. My outdoor fun wont be spoiled so I'll move on

From: lame crowndip

10-Apr-18

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Pierce County. Seemed like 40 or so attending. Two guys seemed to really back the shoulder fired, scope sighted thing. One of them seemed to have his panties in a bunch and wanted to know where this was coming from. Another from the southern part of the county said that he hunts with one and is a member of WBH and that is where the pushback is coming from. Despite the clear wording of the question they seemed to think that their things are going to be taken away....

From: longbowbud

10-Apr-18

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I was there at the same Washington county as groundhunter, he has it right mostly. The old guys clearly did not read the question, the entitlement mentality was on display for sure. I did not speak up because frankly, my blood pressure was so high I was mad at all the bullshit, I would have probably started a brawl. There was a lot of us against. Hard to argue with a bunch of morons, some guy even brought up Russia! The misinformation was rampant, apparently we are all wounders, no deer ever get wounded with the superior crossgun! There is no affect on the deer herd, clearly not even the dnr had the facts about how fast the crossgun numbers have surpassed verticle bows.

The crossgun lobby had a rep there and was full of lies. He whined about how unfair it will be cause they fought really hard for full inclusion and any limit placed on them would be a travesty. He even stated that crossgun users used to have to pay for a test to get certified to use one? When was that?

The bow season is forever changed, they are here to stay, the foot is no longer in the door, the door has been ripped off and burned. We all know it, thanks to all that fought the good fight.

From: Hoot

10-Apr-18

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It was hard to get a read on the crossbow question/vote here in Washburn County. There were more comments on group hunting and on a resolution for group bagging for fishing.

From: ground hunter

10-Apr-18

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It was evident to me, the WCC did not like this question,,,,, the DNR does not have a clue, on what deer hunting traditions really mean to a lot of us,,,,,, like longbowbud said, it was frustrating,,,,,,, I am going to leave this alone, to say I am disappointed from what I have seen, is a understatement........ I was really thinking about the future of deer hunting, for our young hunters of today,,,, I think they will be the big losers...................

From: Missouribreaks

10-Apr-18

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Some of you guys live in la la land. I have been telling you for years there are more crossbow supporters on this very forum than there are guys against. And, this is supposed to be a bowhunting forum, not a crossbow forum. Come out of your box blinds and fess up. Bowhunting with hand drawn bows is in a steep decline and will continue , crossbow hunting will steadily increase. Only a matter of time here in the west too.

From: longbowbud

10-Apr-18

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Yes, we heard you , we tune you out, you bring the same thing up on damn near every thread, we get it. Feel better?

From: Live2hunt

10-Apr-18

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I was at the Eau Claire meeting and there were 4 or 5 people who spoke in support of them, all older. I and another younger guy got up and spoke against them. I know there were others there against because I had a few come up and give me the thumbs up on what I said. They stopped it when things started to heat up. I had more that I wanted to say but it was done and on to the next question. One guy really got my blood boiling when he started in about the WBH was behind all of this. This moron does not understand that he would not have the chance to be out there with these non-bowhunting devices if it wasn't for them. Especially to have the season we do for BOW HUNTING. X=bows are a joke, and from what I saw the ones that support them are also. Oh, one guy said "why don't they have the first 3 days of the gun season for 30-30's and smaller, then 06's for a couple and then open to all after that, it's the same difference" REALLY DUDE????

From: Missouribreaks

10-Apr-18

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Thank you longbowbud. I was there for the entire compound revolution. All of the arguments..... and attitudes are exactly the same. Best to listen to one with experience.

From: JoeFranchise

10-Apr-18

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La Crosse Co. - Seemed about 50/50. As Bman said, many must not have read the question as they seemed to be under the impression that the entire crossbow season would be taken from them (many of these individuals were elderly or disabled and could obtain a permit under the old crossbow regulations). This was my first spring hearing, was disappointed to see a few individuals in support brining their kids as sheep to vote on the issue. I didn't even know individuals under 18 could fill out a card? Pretty disappointing.

From: ground hunter

10-Apr-18

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You should not be able to vote in my opinion, unless you can show a valid or pass in the last year, a hunting fishing or trapping license, as the actual holder..... But today every one gets a trophy

From: Jeffd

10-Apr-18

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I went to St. Croix County. A couple guys spoke up for the crossbow, and a couple guys stood up against. I got the feeling that it was 50/50 or maybe even tilted a little against the crossbow. Does anybody know when the results are supposed to be out on this?

From: buckmaster69

10-Apr-18

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ground hunter +1. Its a shame.

From: huntnfish43

10-Apr-18

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So who is behind the movement to limit crossbows, if its not the WBH?

From: Gusto

10-Apr-18

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I'm going to be interested to see the results as well. Present company excluded I have a feeling most of the hunting public is in favor of the x-gun being used throughout the entire archery season. Simply because they perceive it as easier, and when shooting from an elevated box blind or enclosed tower or enclosed ladder stand with nice rests for every shooting port or a sweet padded rail all the way around, it is. I carried one a couple years ago because of a shoulder injury. It was the biggest Pain the A$$ piece of hunting equipment I ever used. I attempted to use it out of my more 'traditional' archery setups (hang on's and simple ladder stands in thicker areas) and it was heavy, cumbersome, hard to maneuver...ugh I hated it (and it was a newer crossbow from one of the top manufacturers)...that and I had two warranty issues with it (that's another thing, warranty claims on x-guns are higher than even the most high performing compounds...) . I have since rehabbed by shoulder and am now shooting a new Hoyt RX-1...which most x-gun supporters will say "that is more technically advanced than my crossbow!" and I will say "Yes! it is, it's a better engineered, higher quality, and more advanced weapon than most x-guns"...but I still have to DRAW IT AND HOLD IT when the time comes to make the shot. I am not advocating that x-guns be outlawed, but am in favor of separate season and tag just like the Muzzleloader But x-guns are here to stay I'm afraid and I doubt the season structure will change, but I think we need to approach this a different way and support the elimination of group bagging and the support for a one buck per year regardless of weapon season.

From: albino

10-Apr-18

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I was hopping all the a$$cracks would go back to their xgun forums after this was over but I guess not. Of the 2 CC members one was for & one was against. It was the 4 dnr people that really showed their stupidity. Too much book smarts & not enough common sense.

From: ground hunter

10-Apr-18

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I am glad they are,,, that's why I am a member

From: Live2hunt

10-Apr-18

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The Bow Hunters of the State are behind the movement. If you didn't have the WBH, you would not have the seasons you do now.

From: buckmaster69

10-Apr-18

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Hey I got a idea.... lets get a lobbyist..... go around the CC. Everyother organization does it.

From: Bwana 2

10-Apr-18

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If you are an able bodied man and use a cross bow you should have to were pink camo. Really? your to lazy to practice with a real bow that you need a point and shoot weapon? Man up Suzy!

From: buckmaster69

10-Apr-18

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Whats really sad is when you have cross gunners coming on a bow site pretending to be true archers.

From: MF

10-Apr-18

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I love Bowsite and the how things should be done. "We all come with our built-in limitations, restrictions and boundaries. No matter how eager and determined one is, a man without legs cannot win the world high jump competition, and a lady without eyesight can’t shoot brilliant world-class photographs."

From: Geitz

10-Apr-18

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This question was premature at least 2-3 years and was supported/advanced by the wrong group of hunters. In 2-3 more years, the group of hunter truly affected by the crossbow season would have had the numbers and reason to advance this question. The reason in giving the separate license/season and the ability for the DNR to adjust the season was for this group to point the finger at the crossbow season and separate the bow season. Not bow hunters.

When this question was pushed 2 years ago, I knew it was ill advised. It probably has caused more harm than good. You were impatient.

Waiting for the "orange army" would have been best. Their numbers are/will be the most affected.

Just a poor strategy and a bit of selfishness on bow hunters.

From: Tweed

10-Apr-18

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"Waiting for the "orange army" would have been best. Their numbers are/will be the most affected."

I feel the same. Bowhunters have unfortunately given themselves a elitist image whether we wanted it or not. I fear that some hunters might become pro xbow just to spite bowhunters....that is until the xbow hunt impacts the orange army hunt. But by then not just the xbow season will be shortened but also the archery season.

From: Tweed

10-Apr-18

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Oh...and because we love bickering among ourselves so much I could see the DNR just simply changing the definition of a bow or archery giving xbow full inclusion.

From: Geitz

10-Apr-18

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" I could see the DNR just simply changing the definition of a bow or archery giving xbow full inclusion." That will not happen as only the legislature can change the crossbow law. DNR only has power to change the season.

BUT....... if the question sides with crossbows, the pro-crossbow lobby has good ammo to lobby legislature to change to full inclusion. I expect this.

When attempting to change law or administrative rule, you need to think things through otherwise you're going to step in "it". IMO, they stepped in a huge pile on this one.

From: albino

10-Apr-18

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+1 Bawana Hunters will hunt & killers will kill. I don't think it will take too long for them to decimate the heard.

From: oldhunter

10-Apr-18

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" I could see the DNR just simply changing the definition of a bow or archery giving xbow full inclusion." "That will not happen as only the legislature can change the crossbow law" That could be reality.

From: DTYNE2

10-Apr-18

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Ahhhh.. You see that boys? You're greed would never win. The longer this great evil(crossbows) is legal for your full archery season the longer this evil will prevail! Maybe you can encourage the DNR to have a blow dart season before the archery season since you guys really just want first pickings instead? You know, to keep with your GREAT HISTORICAL BOW TRADITIONS in this state as you call it. Since your all concerned about traditions and health of the heard or whatever direction you can spew it to have less guys in the woods with you during rut.

Love you guys.. Can I insert the Rodgers flashing his wrestling belt here after scoring a TD? =) =) =)

From: buckmaster69

10-Apr-18

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Wanna be archers crawling out of the wood work.

From: RutnStrut

10-Apr-18

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I have said for a while that the gun only hunters will get pissy as they always do, then and only then will things change. My biggest worry is now when that change happens it will be for ALL bowhunters. Gun only hunters don't care if you use a compound, recurve, longbow, or crossbow. They will not look at the facts and see that one weapon is majorly impacting their season. They will just see that those damn bowhunters are getting all the bucks before gun season opens. Like I asked earlier. Why does last nights vote matter anyway? There was never a majority vote to allow crossbows for the able bodied lazy, yet we have them.

From: Tweed

10-Apr-18

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Tweed's Link

I've been lurking at crossbow nation for a bit. Most of the time its entertaining to read what they have to say. And boy do they hate bowsite lol

Well today they seem to be doing a victory dance.

From: Jeffd

10-Apr-18

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Wow, lots of complaining on tweed's link about greedy bow hunters trying to take away peoples' right to hunt. I've stated this numerous times; Nobody is taking away anybody's right to hunt. If the crossbow season is shortened, anybody can still hunt the rest of the archery season with a real bow. If the bow is just as easy to kill with as the crossbow (like crossbow guys are claiming,) then what's the difference if the crossbow guys switch to vertical bow??? Anybody not physically able can still use a crossbow as the old law states.

From: DTYNE2

10-Apr-18

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Issue with the gun-hunter logic is a lot of these old-timer gun hunters who can't deal with the cold anymore are just going to crossbow. That's the logic you guys are missing. It's not crossbow hunters/ compound bow hunters/ and gun hunters. I am a gun hunter, and most gun hunters are now crossbow hunters. Most of the push back will be nothing because these guys can now relax, not feel forced to shoot a deer in the few days they get, and not blow loads of money to go up north for a weekend.

From: buckmaster69

10-Apr-18

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Dic2 why even come to a bow site. You are not a archer.

From: CaptMike

10-Apr-18

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"Issue with the gun-hunter logic is a lot of these old-timer gun hunters who can't deal with the cold anymore are just going to crossbow. That's the logic you guys are missing." Now this is funny stuff. Dtyne posts about logic yet he fails to use it himself. Older hunters always were able to hunt with a crossbow. You cannot make this stuff up, just allow people a bit of time and they readily flaunt their ignorance, hypocrisy and overall lack of intelligence. :) :) :)

From: albino

10-Apr-18

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Yup, another Moron that can't use his real name because he is embarrassed that he is a girly girl using a xgun in the bow season. Go away little girl & Man up. I checked the site out & it is full of ding dong wanabes. I think that is why some of them come over here. They just can't understand that they are not bow hunters & they are not wanted here. Shoo Fly Don't Bother Me.

From: Tweed

10-Apr-18

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Tweed's Link

Here's another place where people are having a field day. 24hourcampfire.

From: Live2hunt

10-Apr-18

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I can only picture guys like Dbag out there sitting by there corn pile, x-gun at ready on a tri-pod, shoot a deer and prance around with there to-to on like they accomplished this feet bow hunting. They don't have the competence nor the desire or heart to be a bowhunter, just hit the easy button there whole life and learn nothing. Just a kill.

From: buckmaster69

10-Apr-18

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Line2hunt ........funny.....Dic2 is probably from Ohio.... all happy that we can have a screwed up season like theres.

From: Young Hunter

10-Apr-18

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Well, it just isn't that bad. Wisconsin is still a wonderful place to hunt, regardless.

From: Trapper

10-Apr-18

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Double post

From: Trapper

10-Apr-18

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Boy, the state wide vote was much closer than I thought. 2660 YES, SHORTEN SEASON. 3164 NO

From: oldhunter

10-Apr-18

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"Boy, the state wide vote was much closer than I thought. 2660 YES, SHORTEN SEASON. 3164 NO" But wait. Good ole ronnie, rancid crabtree, sharpthings, or whoever he will be tomorrow, says this vote don't mean "CHIT". Because good ole Kazzie will git-ur-dun.

From: Drop Tine

10-Apr-18

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Drop Tine's Link

Statewide results

From: CaptMike

10-Apr-18

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"Does that come from your deep hunting archery traditions?" Nope, comes from common sense. Same thing I mentioned last time that you were sorely lacking. I see you have gained no intelligence since then. Thanks for playing.

From: Young Hunter

10-Apr-18

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"Because good ole Kazzie will git-ur-dun" Yes, the decisions were already made. Long ago and far away, before anyone local could chime in with their opinion.

From: RutnStrut

10-Apr-18

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I'm sure this vote means nothing. If these votes meant something we wouldn't already have the crossbow problem.

"Yes, the decisions were already made. Long ago and far away, before anyone local could chime in with their opinion."

Perhaps, but that is how crossbows became legal for all able bodied lazy wanna be's anyway. If that's how we curb them a bit, I can sleep with that.

From: Live2hunt

10-Apr-18

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Funny the airbow question didn't turn out with the same numbers that the x-gun question did? I would think the easy button boys would be jumping all over that or is that stepping on your toes too much? Hopefully the vote does mean nothing and the DNR will see what is happening and shorten that season (like take all of November out). I know one thing, if I had a x-gun in my hand the kill for me on large bucks would be 100% every year. But, I will continue to watch with my recurve as the majority of big boys are out of range after 30 yards and use my skill to figure a way to get closer.

From: ground hunter

10-Apr-18

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Well at least they do not want the air bow..... that vote is close, that's for sure,,, thanks Drop Tine

From: albino

10-Apr-18

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WOW, Dicktyne is a Moron & very uneducated. I'm sure he is not smart enough to get my social security number. As for finding my children you could check the Inch Cemetery near Portage. Checking to see who the Morons are is not stalking you Moron. That is where they have info & success pictures. I guess you can't take a hint little girl go home. You are not a bowhunter. My name is in the WBH magazine also. OH NO I'M GOING TO GET HACKED. You are a d bag and no one wants you here. Slime....run slime run. Hide behind your key board little girl & put your panties back on over your diaper. BAHAHAHA. You can't seriously think that you could stand with real hunters. I just find it hard to believe that fruits like you even exist. Have a nice day.

From: ELK ELSEWHERE

10-Apr-18

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Nobody without some disability will ever hunt with a crossgun on my properties. Anyone who needs this to call themselves a bow hunter is not a real bow hunter.

All gun hunters always had the opportunity to take up bow hunting.

From: albino

10-Apr-18

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Thanks droptine. Is there numbers per county out yet? I think the xgunners didn't want the airbow because it would screw up their season. Looks like we will get yellow to hunt with now. That should be required for all x gunners for safety. Only 504 votes short state wide. That is not bad considering we are a small group going against the lies & misinformation put out by the dnr & x gun manufactures. Those that stayed home should be ashamed of them selves.

From: Pasquinell

10-Apr-18

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Seems like another funeral service for the public land hunters in a way.

From: buckmaster69

10-Apr-18

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albino these wanna be archers are so funny. Come on a site that does not support cross guns and can't figure out why there is no LOVE. Let me help you wanna be archers out.... this is a bow and arrow site....You wanna be s go to the cross gun and bolt site.

From: Missouribreaks

10-Apr-18

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Agree with ELK.

From: Bigwoods

10-Apr-18

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Where was Ron Kulas to back you up? I heard he came, voted and left.

From: CaptMike

10-Apr-18

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"Seems like another funeral service for the public land hunters in a way." Pasq, you are spot on. private land owners can set their own rules but it is the poor guys who must hunt public that will suffer the most.

From: albino

10-Apr-18

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Yes, I see the same 2 guys that are on the CC are the same guys that are on the CDAC. They want to give out 3 times as many doe tags to private & then have a doe only season. Guess where all the tags will be. There is a ton of good public here. They have a meeting on the 17th & say about 50 people come. I don't know much about the county yet but it sure don't sound right.

From: Young Hunter

10-Apr-18

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I can't believe my computer said this! "it is the "poor" guys who must hunt public that will suffer the most"

You sir, are so faaaaaar out of touch with the common man that it's pathetic...

From: Drop Tine

10-Apr-18

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Drop Tine's Link

Here you go Albino. The citizen resolutions presented last night will be sometime next week before being published.

From: CaptMike

10-Apr-18

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"I can't believe my computer said this!" Youngster, you use text to speech? Reading is becoming a lost art among you pod eaters.

From: albino

10-Apr-18

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Thanks DT.

From: Young Hunter

10-Apr-18

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From: CaptMike 10-Apr-18 Private Reply "Youngster, you use text to speech? Reading is becoming a lost art among you pod eaters." Brilliant!

From: Young Hunter

10-Apr-18

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Huh?

From: albino

10-Apr-18

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So how do those Tide Pods taste? Did you get a swirly today?

From: Hoot

10-Apr-18

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It was very close here in Washburn 18 yes and 19 no with 16 abstaining.

From: Hoot

10-Apr-18

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It was very close here in Washburn 18 yes and 19 no with 16 abstaining.

From: Boomer1

10-Apr-18

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Young hunter just trolled you all. Thinking he could cut and paste the entire thread is an attempt not to allow the thread to be change bit only deleted entirely. Savy more, even for a troll

Funny, he changed it already.

From: Young Hunter

10-Apr-18

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"So how do those Tide Pods taste? Did you get a swirly today?" Great mentoring!

From: RutnStrut

10-Apr-18

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EAsy now, I heard a rumor that the WI forum was a "No criticize the DNR/CDAC zone". There are some here that think it's their job to enforce this;)

From: Boomer1

10-Apr-18

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Don't feed the little troll. While most of us are home with ours kids, some are switching from Bowsite to others sites. At least he will not need starch for his socks;)

From: albino

10-Apr-18

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I think it is the other d bag coming back with a new name. I did see the attempt he tried. Not the computer genius he thought he was.

From: ground hunter

10-Apr-18

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I disagree with the attitude it will not affect the private land owner,,,, it will in the future, with a shorter season and a one buck rule.......................

From: RutnStrut

10-Apr-18

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Very true GH. When the gun only crowd starts crowing loud enough, and they will. It will be all bowhunters that are punished due to the lazy crossbow wannabes.

From: albino

11-Apr-18

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That seems to be the group that cant read. Every county I have heard from said the same thing that they thought they would not be able to hunt. We also lost 20 counties by 7 votes or less. Some by only 1 vote.

From: buckmaster69

11-Apr-18

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I have a question ..... when you are on the CC or CDAC are you allowed to endorse cross guns as a management tool for deer during a meeting.( not coming to the mic and giving your opion but from the podium like your somebody). My county did not do thank but I heard a couple did.

From: JoeFranchise

11-Apr-18

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Here's to hoping the xbow season is shortened in the 18 Counties in favor. Those results are very sad; the entitlement attitude on full display in WI.

From: ground hunter

11-Apr-18

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From what I have now seen, and the numbers etc,,,,, I think the NRB and the legislators are going to shorten the season, somewhat,,,,, there is going to be a change..... The DNR did not help themselves, sending out different numbers, to those who requested them...... What I saw at the Deer Classic from a NRB member, did not coincide with what the WON printed out,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

From: CaptMike

11-Apr-18

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WON is nothing more than an echo chamber for middle management DNR people.

From: ground hunter

11-Apr-18

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It is an echo chamber for bitter old DNR people,,,, that is who gets printed anyway,,,, I once told a friend, good guy in the DNR, that the way the DNR treats people, one day it will come back to haunt them, the chickens will come home to roost,,,,, They are trying to find a savior, except they can not find a Democrat who will support trapping, etc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

From: Live2hunt

11-Apr-18

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From what I saw in Eau Claire, it was mostly misinformed old guys, 65+ who voted. I think they needed to explain the question better.

From: Inmyelement

11-Apr-18

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Or maybe, at 65 they have figured out that there are much more important things to worry about than what weapon someone hunts with.

From: JF

11-Apr-18

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Live2hunt, I saw the same thing in La Crosse Co. Elderly (~60-65yrs) and disabled individuals thinking the xbow/season was going to be taken to them. These individuals clearly misinterpreted the question or had been extremely misinformed. Additionally, it still does not sit well that I observed children and other individuals, clearly under the age of 18, voting on this and other issues.

From: Live2hunt

11-Apr-18

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Inmy, the archery season as we know it was not set up or was intending to include x-guns, EVER. Get off that "worry about what someone hunts with" kick, that's B.S. Did you vote yes for the airbow? Eat your comment if you didn't.

From: CaptMike

11-Apr-18

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Live2, +1. Some people are so ignorant and uncaring for the future of the sport that they spew their greed shamelessly.

From: Mike F

11-Apr-18

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I am not happy with the outcome. Remember these things... The way this question got into this years meeting..... The negative publicity "aimed at bowhunters"..... The reminder that all of these votes are"non binding". Which in my mind means that the politicians will continue down the slippery slope of passing laws to appease those that continue to grease their palms. I don't know how they can sleep at night.....

From: Inmyelement

11-Apr-18

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When all you have left are personal attacks, it may be time to reevaluate your stance.

From: JoeFranchise

11-Apr-18

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I still think the outcome needs to be looked at in a glass-half-full mentality. There are 18 Counties for which the xbow season should undoubtedly be shortened (in my opinion, somewhat significantly) and comparative data, to the remaining xbow counties in terms of harvest/success rates, should be collected for a number of years. After a period of comparative data is collected (~2-3 years imo) for the 18 counties with a shortened season, the remaining counties should then be reevaluated by the WDNR.

Joe

From: Glunker

11-Apr-18

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Joe That will never happen. The bowhunters did not seem very organized on this question. I was hoping for more.

From: buckmaster69

11-Apr-18

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cross gun wanna be archers .....Please go back to a cross gun forum.

From: Live2hunt

11-Apr-18

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Yep, have venny every year. Some of us have skills we use and have worked on to get our venison. Those without the wanting to learn a skill have to go to things like x-guns to try to keep up and really have nothing, so Sad. You get your airbow yet Dbag? You would have nothing if it wasn't for the greedy bowhunters who got you the season you don't deserve now. Fade away Dbag.

From: buckmaster69

11-Apr-18

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Dic2 your still not a archer.

From: Tweed

11-Apr-18

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LOL DTYNE2 is doing a good job trolling you guys with his bait. Don't let yourselves be his prey.

From: Nocturnal

11-Apr-18

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Dtyne2 loves his penis shaped deer veni... Mmmmm... baby.... soooo sooo sooo good! lol don't shoot your thumb off!

From: CaptMike

11-Apr-18

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Noc, LOL!

From: buckmaster69

11-Apr-18

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Fellow hunters what a great day to be a bow hunter..

From: ground hunter

11-Apr-18

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I just watched the website live cast of the NRB meeting in Madison, and the cross bow was the last agenda..... It is evident, that no one, has any intentions of stopping cross bow hunting, for anyone. It was seen as a positive for younger hunters and some women......... The numbers the DNR put forward, were shown in a factual manner, and what it does show is a very high trend of success, compared to the vertical bow and gun harvest,,,, the trend was quick, and distinct. The issue was how will this weapon affect the deer herd overall, in distribution for everyone......

It was also recognized, that for the first time, the last 3 years showed a decline in gun hunting, where prior to that, we were one of the few in the nation, where gun hunting was on the rise,,,,,,,,,,,

They want fairness for the gun hunters, to also have opportunity, and the fact that bowhunters to their credit, in the past, got rid of group bagging.....

They are looking at the revenue that is brought in by gun hunting, and the revenue overall, that the DNR needs frankly as a huge chunk of their budget, and they do not want to lose that.......

So they are looking into, the suggestion, of the cross bow, having its own season,,,,,,,,

From: buckmaster69

11-Apr-18

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Don't forget this ground hunter..... don't want to see us end up a one buck state

From: Nocturnal

11-Apr-18

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10 pntbow; how about you tell us why we should happily accept the CB? Seeing as you come to a archery forum asking the obvious stated questions. All you do is look through a scope and pull the trigger and so on. Lol.. Does it take skill to shoot a crossbow? Please enlighten all of us? Please shine the light?

From: Jeffd

11-Apr-18

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10 pnt, I'd like to ask the opposite question to answer your question... Why are so many crossbow hunters so concerned about the crossbow season changing?? Most crossbow guys claim that they are no deadlier than a vertical bow, and just as difficult to shoot. If that's the case I don't understand peoples' concern. If a real bow is equivalent, then just start shooting a real bow if the season changes...

From: Live2hunt

11-Apr-18

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Simple 10pt, it is not a bow, it is not considered archery equipment to the dnr, the archery season was not intended for a weapon like this, the long season was because of the low chance of taking an animal, it is not a season for a long range weapon like these are now. Why don't we have the gun season during the Rut? Because it would be a catastrophe for bucks in the state. You need to read all that has been wrote before you ask. These have been said before, or are you going to take all these answers away? If you want to do it the way the season is set up, draw that thing back at the point of kill!!

From: 10PntBow

11-Apr-18

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From: buckmaster69

11-Apr-18

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10pt.... a lot of us bow, gun and black powder hunt. Most of us don't want to end up like Ohio a one and done state. You ask why some of us don't like cross gunners..... Its because most of you LIE.

From: Live2hunt

11-Apr-18

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The only advantaged i see using a xbow is you don't have to hold your draw. Ding Ding Ding there is your answer. Plus 100 yard shooters with them now.

From: Jeffd

11-Apr-18

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10pnt, why not open the whole season up to guns then?? "If anything i think the compound has the advantage, you can release/fire faster than an xbow."

That's laughable. Please explain to me how you can release faster. Anybody can pick up a crossbow and hit a target using a rest with little to no practice. Put a bow in the hand of someone who has never shot one and see what happens.

Why are you on here asking these questions if you're not concerned?

Why would they make hunting the rut with a lesser weapon illegal? That logic makes zero sense.

From: 10PntBow

11-Apr-18

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From: 10PntBow

11-Apr-18

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From: 10PntBow

11-Apr-18

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@Live@Hunt....i don't shoot 100yrds...my kill zone is 35 yrds or less...even with the xbow. Just last season, I had low 150ish come in, he got within 43 yrds...but I never let one fly. So believe what you want about shooting 100yrds.

From: Pasquinell

11-Apr-18

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Thanks for stopping by Nopoint.

From: buckmaster69

11-Apr-18

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HHa ha ha ok done

From: 10PntBow

11-Apr-18

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'Why don't we have the gun season during the Rut? Because it would be a catastrophe for bucks in the state' -- not true. Manage your property better than. Last couple years the rut is still going doing gun season.

From: 10PntBow

11-Apr-18

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From: buckmaster69

11-Apr-18

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I can't even do ittt

From: Live2hunt

11-Apr-18

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10pt, manage your property? realy

From: 10PntBow

11-Apr-18

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From: Jeffd

11-Apr-18

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Why would you need a second shot with a xbow?? Not only that, but how often does someone get a second shot with bow? That's a serious question. I'm sure it happens but in my 18 years bow hunting, I've never got a second shot or heard of anybody I know getting a second shot. That's you're argument for saying crossbows are inferior???

From: 10PntBow

11-Apr-18

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@jeffd Why would they make hunting the rut with a lesser weapon illegal? That logic makes zero sense - ok make rut only - long and re curve... don't like that idea either do you bcs its not benefiting you

From: Jeffd

11-Apr-18

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There's a difference in your argument. A compound bow is still a bow. An xbow is not. Completely different mechanics and style of shooting. If that were the case though, you can bet your ass I'd be heading to A1 Archery right now and buying myself a recurve. That's what a lot of crossbow guys don't seem to understand. They make it sound as if their right to hunt is being taken away. It's not. Go get a real bow and you can hunt with the rest of us real archers.

From: dkbs

11-Apr-18

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I was hunting with a recurve, just starting when compounds came about. Not many bowhunters, I didn't hear much complaining. Matter of fact most tried a compound and some went back. I've gone back and forth a couple of times. Both compound and tradional bows are hand held, hand released. The crossbow isn't. Has it impacted me, actually it did. I hunt public and seen more hunters than I ever have this year and I expect it to continue as long as the success rates are up there. I've been shooting my compound every day because I ended last season with a sore shoulder/arm. I dropped the weight so I could still hunt with my compound. I'm 65, so the vote wouldn't have changed things if I wanted a crossbow. But I have a son who is also bowhunts and on public land. I showed up at the spring hearing more for him than me. When I can no longer pull my bow back and release it bowhunting for me is over.

From: CaptMike

11-Apr-18

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"Why are you on here asking these questions if you're not concerned?" JeffD nailed it with this question. Want proof? The proof is that 1/2pint elected to ignore the question.

From: 10PntBow

11-Apr-18

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as i said before i have both...i hunted 25 yrs with a compound, its only the last 2 yrs I used a xbow. I came on here thinking i could have an intelligent conversation...but as soon as i mention xbow...everyone gets their undies in a bundle and starts lashing out at me.. calling me names and say i lie? Really? So again - i will propose my question - how are xbow impacting you?

From: Tweed

11-Apr-18

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Boy I sure hope Charlie comes and clears this site out again. Time for some spring cleaning.

From: Pasquinell

11-Apr-18

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Why did you decide to switch? Let me guess first though... injury?

From: ELK ELSEWHERE

11-Apr-18

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I'll answer for him Pasq, 10pntgun, because its easy and i don't have to practice. And i never get anything by actually bow hunting.

From: RutnStrut

11-Apr-18

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"'Why don't we have the gun season during the Rut? Because it would be a catastrophe for bucks in the state' -- not true. Manage your property better than. Last couple years the rut is still going doing gun season."

You whine about people picking on you snowflake, don't make dumbass statements like this.

From: Inmyelement

11-Apr-18

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MN gun hunts the rut and they haven't killed all the deer there....

From: 10PntBow

11-Apr-18

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@rutnstrut...how is that a dumbass statement....last 3 yrs where i hunt...the rut was still going strong during gun season...and i wasn't whining i was asking a question. But thanks

From: happygolucky

11-Apr-18

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The vote is really unfortunate. I doubt the vote matters though. Just look at when the vote for xbows did not pass (multiple times) but the Legislature voted 96-0 in favor of them anyway. The vote means nothing. Maybe there is still a chance xbows can go back to the elderly and disabled during the archery season or their season is shortened. I am skeptical because the money won once and I just don't see how the money does not win again.

The name calling in this thread is over the top. Why can't people agree to disagree in a civilized (adult) manner.

From: 10PntBow

11-Apr-18

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From: 10PntBow

11-Apr-18

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From: 10PntBow

11-Apr-18

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From: 10PntBow

11-Apr-18

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Thank you happygolucky

From: Jeffd

11-Apr-18

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10pnt, to answer your question, I don't want crossbow to run the entire archery season for the same reason I wouldn't want rifle season to run the entire archery season. It's a superior weapon, and there are numbers out there proving that the crossbow has a higher success rate. Higher success rate equals more deer being killed. I would like to see the heard increase, not decrease. I hope that clears things up. Also, I haven't hunted Minnesota, but from what I hear, I'll take Wisconsin. Likely because of the way they manage their seasons.

Also, I hunt private land, but what is happening around private land effects private land. Deer don't know property lines.

From: jjs

11-Apr-18

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10pnt, this is an intelligent answer, Ravin x-gun ad is 'the new rifle', that is your answer. I hunt N.Mn. and last yr. the zone went to 1 deer only, your choice gun, bow or ml and this may be coming to Wi. Do not come on here and say you are a bowhunter, it is disrespect to the ones that got the season and the ones that hunt with the bow, that is my intelligent answer, enjoy your life.

From: albino

11-Apr-18

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Yes, I'm guessing 10pip is a woman or child. Sounds like he is dumber than a rock. I shot the Ravin at the Deer Expo. Pin point accuracy and it was only the 2nd shot I have taken with a scoped gun in many years. It was way more like a rifle than a bow & any one that says different is a complete moron. Why do these idiots keep coming to a bow forum? Looking for intelligent conversation she says. Obviously there is none on the x gun forum. Go away with the women & children where you belong. You are not wanted here.

From: RutnStrut

11-Apr-18

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I admit I shouldn't have stooped to name calling and i apologize for that. As far as having gun season when the rut is hot and heavy, it's not good. Having gun season well after the rut is one reason states like Iowa and Kansas are deer management successes.

From: Bloodtrail

11-Apr-18

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Minnesota has a gun season smack dab in the rut! Can anyone say that State has suffered? Seriously, I do not know, but it appears that they have not.

I agree, it SOUNDS like they sure would, but from the looks of it....they have not.

From: RutnStrut

12-Apr-18

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BT, you are way off on that. yes MN has suffered. I have friends and relatives in MN. They hate that gun season is right smack dab in the heat of the rut. Most serious hunters/land managers in MN this is one of their biggest gripes. The weekend warrior types love it. That way they can go out with a rifle and shoot that love struck 1.5 year old forkie. I'm not bashing anyone for shooting any deer that makes them happy. But gun season in the thick of the rut is just plain DUMB.

From: CaptMike

12-Apr-18

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JJS just gave a perfect example of the danger of gun hunting during the rut. One deer a season. And, long term, I'd bet it will lead to a reduced percentage of buck's in the herd.

From: dpms

12-Apr-18

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The most disappointing thing I see by reading some of the comments here is that many of you fail to realize or understand how important crossbows are to recruiting vertical archers. In one state that has kept those stats for a long time, the great majority of kids that start out with crossbows switch to vertical bows in their late teens and stay there. Other known stats show that if kids don't begin hunting by the early teens, they likely will never hunt. I just shake my head when I think that some would rather shun a particular type of bow instead of using it as a tool to bring young vertical archers into your ranks that will likely stay there until they get much older.

From: Live2hunt

12-Apr-18

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dpms, then why even bring in the x-gun? You know why you went to the x-gun, it's an easy way out!!! There should be no issue with killing a buck with one during the rut!! I can't believe the kill isn't higher, but once more people go to these things it will and that will affect all of us. IT SHOULD NOT BE THE LENGTH OF THE ARCHERY SEASON!!!! What don't you guys get.

From: lame crowndip

12-Apr-18

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"In one state that has kept those stats for a long time, the great majority of kids that start out with crossbows switch to vertical bows in their late teens and stay there. " Where can I find the data for that????

From: dpms

12-Apr-18

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You are right, no season should ever be shortened if objective heads prevail. In this country we are bleeding hunters. We are not backfilling our ranks with younger hunters as we lose older hunters. It is a systemic problem that will be difficult to overcome. The problem will be getting enough deer killed, not trying to limit the deer kill. If I am understanding the numbers in Wisconsin, the archery kill is actually less now than prior to crossbow inclusion. What matters from management perspectives are total kills. Not when the deer are killed.

From: CaptMike

12-Apr-18

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"In one state that has kept those stats for a long time, the great majority of kids that start out with crossbows switch to vertical bows in their late teens and stay there." I find this laughable. What state? Whose study? Saying they "stay there" is a pretty broad term. How long has this study gone on? How long have they "stayed there?" What was the retention rate as compared to kids who started out with vertical bows? Without answering these, the statement has no merit.

From: dpms

12-Apr-18

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Ohio, which has been crossbow legal for decades, has pretty detailed findings on youth and crossbows. The data was discussed quite a bit during the inclusion debate in Pennsylvania. The great majority that started out with crossbows switched to vertical bows in their teens. IRRC, it was close to 70-80%. Also national studies show that if kids don't start hunting by their early teens, likely will never hunt.

From: Missouribreaks

12-Apr-18

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The scoped crossbows made today are far, far superior to those made ten years ago and earlier. There is no way the majority of kids starting with a modern scoped crossbow later switch to a compound as their go to weapon for archery season. A few may switch........... but the vast majority will not. As more and more states allow crossbows, the number of crossbow hunters who also use a compound will decrease. Many stayed with a compound simply because crossbows were not allowed in other destination states, mostly out west. Those barriers are being removed in states such as Wyoming.

Whatever study is being referenced is outdated and not pertinent.

From: 10PntBow

12-Apr-18

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dpms - be careful...if they don't like what you are saying they will start calling you names. The herd has been declining long before xbows came into the picture. So if xbows don't belong in the 'archery' season, and should have their own season, are you willing have a shorten 'archery' season? Im all for having one tag per person each season, it will help increase the herd. There was a comment on here...'most of us hunt ml, bow and gun? why? why do you need 3 - 5 deer a year? Don't you think your part of the problem? As sportsmen, we need to stand united, regardless choice of weapon. And lobby that they get rid of some the these extra hunts and handing out so many tags to a hunter during the year. And albino - im not a child or a woman...but nice try.

From: buckmaster69

12-Apr-18

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My God in Heaven......dpms... your telling us cross guns will save hunting!!!!! Give it a rest. Guys this is the reason I can't stand cross gunners... THEY JUST KEEP TELLING LIES !!!

From: Mike F

12-Apr-18

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Good morning gentlemen and trolls, Why are Wisconsin Hunters listening to the drivel from people who have no say in how the season is set and supposed facts. To which there are no statistics to back them up. If you recall, way back when this whole "Crossbow Season" issue started, we were told that the season length would be revisited after harvest data was obtained. after a number of years, the harvest information has been collected and the season will be set. It is not being shortened, nor lengthened, it is being set. The number of deer harvested with a crossbow determined that.

This was all set up when the law was passed and signed, way back when this all started. We knew going in that it would possibly be adjusted due to the harvest numbers. Now it is happening. After it is set, it will take "an act of God" to get it changed or adjusted. Which, we all know doesn't happen over night.

Time to stop the bickering, infighting and move on to protecting our "rights" as they are on constant attack from the ant-gun and anti-hunters.

Turkey season is here, go out and enjoy it, find a new hunter and introduce them to hunting.

Time to put down your grudges against fellow hunters and join together. This infighting is exactly what anti's want to see, and it doesn't help the situation.

Thank you and have a great day!

From: brewcrewmike

12-Apr-18

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People keep saying shorten the season. I ask you, to what? If these people are as you all claim lazy millennials who sit in their basements playing video games and drinking Mountain Dew eliminate September and December hunting for those who choose to use a crossbow. Shouldn't have much effect on them, they can play more video games and drink more Mountain Dew, all the while getting fatter and diabetes. That should cause some of them to stay out of the woods altogether. Winning!

From: Jeffd

12-Apr-18

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"the great majority of kids that start out with crossbows switch to vertical bows in their late teens and stay there." LOL, How do you explain all of the adults using crossbows then???

From: lame crowndip

12-Apr-18

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It IS refreshing that guys from other states can take their time to come to the Wisconsin forum to save us from ourselves.

From: Missouribreaks

12-Apr-18

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Do remember that some nonresidents own considerable land in Wisconsin, pay Wisconsin taxes, and hunt there. Some of these issues can affect their land values and hunting experiences too. What happens in Wisconsin is not just for the residents, it is for all who pay Wisconsin taxes and recreate there. Wisconsin is part of the USA.

From: dpms

12-Apr-18

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In response to this; "The scoped crossbows made today are far, far superior to those made ten years ago and earlier. There is no way the majority of kids starting with a modern scoped crossbow later switch to a compound as their go to weapon for archery season. A few may switch........... but the vast majority will not. Whatever study is being referenced is outdated and not pertinent. "

The facts simply show that your beliefs and assumptions are incorrect about kids that start hunting with crossbows. A good example being the stages of a hunter are well known. One of those stages is trying to use different weapons to harvest game. Most of us have gone through those stages. An objective person understands that there will be a drive for someone that starts hunting with a crossbow to try another bow. Known data does show that kids are switching to vertical equipment as they age by a large margin. Sorry the facts don't jive with your assumptions.

From: dpms

12-Apr-18

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In response to buckmaster; "My God in Heaven......dpms... your telling us cross guns will save hunting!!!!! Give it a rest. Guys this is the reason I can't stand cross gunners... THEY JUST KEEP TELLING LIES !!!" I never said crossbows would save hunting. If you can't stand "crossgunners", maybe you are not actually reading or trying to comprehend what some are saying? It seems hatred is trumping objectivity and civility? Those that use crossbows where they are legal are just hunters as you and I.

From: albino

12-Apr-18

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Where are these guys coming from & why do some keep coming back. Can't they see that we don't give a crap what they think? They obviously know nothing about bowhunting in Wisconsin & have no facts to back up their drivel. One says the population is down & one says it is up & we can't kill enough deer so we should have a nation wide season because if it works for hillbillies it will work for us. No wonder I hate x gunners. Well no so much the weapon but the type that uses them. Nobody was even trying to get rid of them. Just trying to get equality for all deer hunters. INCLUDING XGUNS. Take your preaching down the road. We will save ourselves. Now go back to your xgun site & stay. You are doing more damage than good by far. We could get better info out of Texas if needed it. No wonder we call you names. You just don't get it. And please try not to get your skirt caught in your string.

From: Live2hunt

12-Apr-18

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When they gave them the same season as the bow hunters, that was and is the problem.

From: Bloodtrail

12-Apr-18

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Rut - Other than you having a "few friends and relatives" in Minnesota that don't like the gun season in the rut, WHAT statistics shows us that this is detrimental to the herd? Let me note - I like WI structure and LOVE to hunt with bow in the rut period. Just curious however as I have seen no problems, like HUGE numbers of antlered deer taken with a firearm...because of the rut.

Any info?

From: 10PntBow

12-Apr-18

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From: 10PntBow

12-Apr-18

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@Live2Hunt - So if xbows don't belong in the 'archery' season, and should have their own season, are you willing have a shorten 'archery' season?

From: Live2hunt

12-Apr-18

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Why, the archery season was set for BOW's and BOWHUNTING. NOT X-GUNS. What are you not understanding?

From: Missouribreaks

12-Apr-18

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Can you please post these studies so we can understand the facts and methodology?

From: albino

12-Apr-18

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Unfortunately our studies are kept on secret files by the DNR & if we ask for them we will get different numbers that they use in different situations made up only to make them look better & justify their jobs. They also can't count Bear, Wolves, Bobcat & so on. Has any of those types that use the @ sign ever told us what the difference is between a gun & an x gun is besides the x ? From my limited experience the x gun is more accurate out to 100 yards because of no recoil although I have fired both I do not hunt with either.

From: buckmaster69

12-Apr-18

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10.... agreements were made concerning the separate cross gun season. If any season gets shortened because of over harvest of deer.... You guys agreed to take the reduction. If down the line archery needs to take a hit then I can live with it. But I aint gonna take a hit for you wanna be archers.

From: buckmaster69

12-Apr-18

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dpms... you are right cross gunners are hunters GUN HUNTERS.

From: Drop Tine

12-Apr-18

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Buck, there hasn’t been a over harvest though. Yes it looks like the success rate is higher for xbows. BUT the overall harvest has not increased.

From: Jeff in MN

12-Apr-18

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Mike F said the following and it does not seem to have sunk in or is being ignored. "If you recall, way back when this whole "Crossbow Season" issue started, we were told that the season length would be revisited after harvest data was obtained. after a number of years, the harvest information has been collected and the season will be set. It is not being shortened, nor lengthened, it is being set. The number of deer harvested with a crossbow determined that.

This was all set up when the law was passed and signed, way back when this all started. We knew going in that it would possibly be adjusted due to the harvest numbers. Now it is happening. After it is set, it will take "an act of God" to get it changed or adjusted. Which, we all know doesn't happen over night."

end of quote.....

THIS PROCESS IS FOR THE SEASON TO BE SET, not changed, not shortened.

From: dpms

12-Apr-18

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Experience and history has taught us that when two parties are in a discussion, and one is unable to discuss an issue without attacks and slights, that party does not have a solid foundation from which to develop a constructive position from. From the beginning of the crossbow debates years ago, one side has always welcomed the data, and the other side has feared the data. What we have happening is data trumping emotions, stereotypes, and assumptions. If the chosen angle of attack continues along the lines of the venom that spews forth here, I suspect the battle will be a difficult one, in the long run, for those that choose that path forward.

From: Jeff in MN

12-Apr-18

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Also (as others have pointed out) the technol

From: Bou'bound
15-Apr-18
"Albino" : "You are a greedy disgusting pig." Apparently this forums moderators are not aware of their code of conduct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: CaptMike

12-Apr-18

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Oldhunter, is it name calling if it is true?

From: buckmaster69

12-Apr-18

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Drop tine if you don't know..... thats ok... I can find out in a couple days when I go to Madison

From: Young Hunter

12-Apr-18

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"Oldhunter, is it name calling if it is true? " Oldhunter forgot more about bowhunting than you will ever know "Captain"...

From: Drop Tine

12-Apr-18

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Buck, I believe they can if they go on the floor and announce this is their personal opinion. They can not do it from the tables they are seated at as a representative of the CC.

From: buckmaster69

12-Apr-18

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DT thank you. Am checking their were a few counties that gave it a recommendation from the CC and one from cdac.

From: buckmaster69

12-Apr-18

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Doin some checking..... when delegates are asked their position on questions the answer they are suppose to give is WE SUPPORT THE PUBLIC OPION. but..... i want to make sure before I turn them in....ya gotta love cell phones

From: albino

12-Apr-18

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Dang, I was trying to stay off here. The CC Chairman in Jefferson County said during the discussion "What difference does it make what weapon we use as long as we are getting more hunters".

From: albino

12-Apr-18

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OK, I edited out the Pig for the softies. That is a terrible name. Did you know RC shot 2 Pigs recently? OOPS, I did it again.

From: CaptMike

12-Apr-18

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Young Tide Pod Eater, you know nothing about me yet you attempt to comment. That in itself shows your shallowness of thought.

From: Camp 2 dukes

13-Apr-18

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Cap RC hit it on the head. The problem we run into is any time you give someone something from that point forward they consider it their right. Similar to welfare programs. Try and take it away and you get protesting in the streets.

From: MF

13-Apr-18

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Big fist fight at the Holiday gas station in Washburn this morning, all over minnows.

From: SamIam

13-Apr-18

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If I am ever going to come to Wisconsin to bow hunt, I am hoping that I do not run into a lot of you on this forum. The name calling and attitudes on the topic are unbelievable. What does it matter which weapon your fellow sportsman/women choose to use during the BOW hunting season. It is about getting out and enjoying nature and all it has to offer. As long as the animal is harvested legally and the person is proud of it, that is all that matters. I hope you all find a better way to use your energy than beating this topic to death and making yourselves look like as@@@. Have a great day/night/month/year/life Sam

From: buckmaster69

13-Apr-18

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Samy..... its not archery.

From: SamIam

13-Apr-18

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Edited buckmaster69 :)

From: Live2hunt

13-Apr-18

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If you come to wi to hunt you can either bow hunt during that season, or x-gun hunt during that season. You pick.

From: 10PntBow

13-Apr-18

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If you come to wi to hunt you can either bow hunt during that season, or x-gun hunt during that season. You pick. --- Same season!!

From: buckmaster69

13-Apr-18

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Same time period ..... NOT SAME SEASON.

From: JTV

13-Apr-18

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First of Crossguns should not be in archery seasons... maybe for truly handicapped, but thats it... kids, teach them how to shoot a vertical bow ... ALL shoulder fired weapons should be in the gun seasons ... and give the damn things a separate license ...

From: Grey Ghost

13-Apr-18

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Simple solution.

1. Vertical Bow Seasons - First week of Sept, Oct, Nov, and Dec.

2. Cross Bow Seasons - Second week of Sept, Oct, Nov, and Dec.

3. Muzzleloader Seasons - Third week of Sept, Oct, Nov, and Dec.

4. Gun Seasons - Fourth week of Sept, Oct, Nov, and Dec.

Equal opportunity for all. Pick your weapon and your 4 weeks. Done deal.

Matt

From: JL

13-Apr-18

Private Reply

JL's Link

I don't have a dog in your Wisconsin crossbow hunt. Take this Jan 13, 2018 article for what it's worth. It may answer some questions being raised. Personally...I wouldn't pit hunters against hunters.

For first time, Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Paul A. Smith, Milwaukee Journal SentinelPublished 9:44 a.m. CT Jan. 13, 2018

For the first time in Wisconsin, hunters using crossbows last fall killed more deer than those using vertical bows, according to preliminary 2017-'18 harvest data from the Department of Natural Resources.

In addition, the combined crossbow and archery buck harvest set a state record for antlered deer killed with bows.

Both events, though milestones, are not a surprise and represent a continuation of trends in Wisconsin and other states.

RELATED: Snapshot Wisconsin expands into eight more counties

According to DNR data from last week, the total crossbow kill was 47,086 deer in Wisconsin, while archers (using compound bows, recurves and stick bows) registered 45,034.

And the combined bow buck kill of 53,154 in 2017-'18 surpassed the previous high of 51,823 set in 2015-'16.

Hunters using crossbows took 27,371 bucks and 19,715 antlerless deer this season, while archers registered 25,783 bucks and 19,251 antlerless.

The 2017-'18 data reflect registrations as of Jan. 10, three days after the primary crossbow and archery deer seasons ended.

However, the registration figures are considered preliminary, since a few hundred deer are likely to be killed in metro zones open to hunting through the end of the month.

The use of crossbows by hunters and the number of deer harvested with crossbows increased significantly in Wisconsin after a 2013 change in state law allowed hunters of all ages and physical abilities to use the equipment. It had previously been restricted to those with disabilities or over the age of 65.

Over the last four years, the crossbow deer harvest in Wisconsin has gone from 26,891 deer (15,768 bucks and 11,123 antlerless) in 2014-'15, to 34,094 (20,594 and 13,500) in 2015-'16, to 39,776 (23,562 and 16,214) in 2016-'17 to 47,086 (27,371 and 19,715) this season.

Meanwhile, the number of deer killed with vertical bows declined from 54,810 (30,433 and 24,377) in 2014-'15, 53,004 (31,229 and 21,775) in 2015-'16, 48,272 (28,172 and 20,100) in 2016-'17 and 45,034 (25,783 and 19,251) this year.

License sales have followed the same trajectories for the two categories. Crossbow licenses increased from 69,022 in 2016-'17 to 82,660 this year (through Jan. 11), according to DNR records,

And archery licenses declined from 166,161 in 2016-'17 to 152,186 this year.

(Numbers from 2014 and 2015 are not included since an "upgrade" option was available which allowed hunters to use both crossbows and vertical bows and confound direct comparisions).

The license sales figures from the last two years don't tell the full story, either, as they don't include conservation patron license holders (46,805 resident patrons in 2017-'18) who have crossbow and archery privileges.

It's unknown how many patron holders used crossbows or vertical bows, according to the DNR.

In a survey sent out this month to bowhunters, the DNR is for the first time gathering data on crossbow use and effort.

Such information is necessary to estimate hunter success rates. Although wildlife managers assume higher success rates among crossbow deer hunters than vertical bow users, Wisconsin officials said they'd wait to see the results of in-state work before discussing such differences.

A deer hunter carries a crossbow as he walks to a standBuy Photo A deer hunter carries a crossbow as he walks to a stand in Marquette County. (Photo: Paul A. Smith)

While some crossbow details are being researched in Wisconsin, it's already clear the trends in the Badger State are mirroring experiences elsewhere.

Michigan, for example, has allowed crossbow use during its archery deer season since 2009. The first year, 19% of hunters used a crossbow during the Michigan archery deer season. The percentage increased to 37% in 2011, 44% in 2012 and 50% in 2013.

In Ohio, where crossbows have been legal for all hunters to use during a four-month archery deer season since 1982, about 55% of hunters use crossbows.

Increased crossbow use in Michigan also corresponded with fewer gun deer license sales and more bucks being killed earlier in the year, according to state officials.

The same shifts have been observed in Wisconsin, as gun deer licenses dropped below 600,000 in the last two years, lowest in more than 35 years.

And as evidenced by the record bow buck kill this season, more hunters are taking antlered deer with arrows and bolts than ever before. Most bow-killed bucks in Wisconsin are taken before the nine-day gun hunt in November.

Although there is no data to substantiate it at this point, some Wisconsin hunters who traditionally only hunted in the gun season might be opting to use a crossbow earlier in the year. And, if successful, they might not buy a gun license.

All of this, of course, is playing out against a backdrop of generally lower participation in hunting .

In fact, claims by crossbow proponents that the equipment would lead to a net increase in hunters hasn't been borne out in Wisconsin.

Overall deer-license sales have fallen over the last few years, including a drop from 833,990 in 2016-'17 to 824,505 this season.

A crossbow is sighted-in from an elevated stand.Buy Photo A crossbow is sighted-in from an elevated stand. (Photo: Michael Sears)

Anecdotally, however, crossbows are helping keep some deer hunters in the woods later in life and helping to re-engage some vertical bow hunters who quit years ago.

The average ages of crossbow and archery license buyers in Wisconsin is 50 and 35, respectively, according to a sample from the 2014 season.

This year's deer harvest also continues a decades-long trend toward an increasing percentage of the buck kill occurring during the bow seasons.

In 1967, bow hunters took 1,714 bucks, 2% of the total antlered kill that year. In 1977, the numbers increased to 16,790 and 7%. In 1987, it was 21,278 and 15%. In 1997, 26,812 and 23%. And in 2007, 38,000 and 22%.

All of this increase took place before crossbow use was expanded. In 2013, the last year before crossbows were legal for all hunters, archery hunters killed 41,517 bucks, 29% of the antlered deer kill that year.

This year, the 53,154 bow buck kill was 34% of the total antlered deer harvest.

And the total bow kill (antlered and antlerless, crossbow and vertical bow) of 92,120 deer was 30% of the 2017-'18 Wisconsin deer harvest.

As seen in Ohio and Michigan, crossbow use shifts hunting effort and deer kill earlier in the year, but hunters using firearms still kill the majority of the deer.

The Wisconsin DNR hopes to have results of its bowhunters survey available by mid-year.

From: buckmaster69

13-Apr-18

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JTV they do have a separate license

From: JTV

13-Apr-18

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JTV's embedded Photo JTV's embedded Photo

as they should, put them with the guns and keep BOWhunting vertical .......

From: MF

13-Apr-18

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But also can use a vertical bow or switch over for $3

From: jjs

13-Apr-18

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This is why I call the x-gun the transgender method, is it a he or she just do no know, at least the state defined it not to be in the bow season and Pat needs to delete here as in the past since it is not define as a bow.

From: 70lbdraw

13-Apr-18

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"Fellow hunters what a great day to be a bow hunter.." Buckmaster, I understand your position on the subject. But crapping all over your "fellow hunters" because you dont agree with their choice of weapon is foolish. There may come a day when your "fellow hunters" may be able to stand with you and bolster a situation that affects you. Keep insulting folks the way do, and you'll be all alone if you ever need their support. We all need to stick together when it come to protecting our right to hunt...Regardless of an individual's preferred method.

Nothing personal...just sayin'!

From: buckmaster69

13-Apr-18

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Ghost..... NO

From: buckmaster69

13-Apr-18

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70lbdraw....Thank u for the advice. But...I wish fellow hunters from other states would worry about their state and let Wisconsin sportsmen worry about theirs. I know all the cross gun lovers come here just to sing kum bi ya. look at the ravin cross gun. I WILL NEVER HUNT WITH A CROSS GUN ITS NOT ARCHERY Nothing personal.... just sayin

From: CaptMike

13-Apr-18

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"What does it matter which weapon your fellow sportsman/women choose to use during the BOW hunting season." Comprehension certainly seems to be a common trait among crossbow supporters. Let me try and help. It is a BOW season time frame. Designed as a hunting period when deer are more vulnerable. Crossbows are not bows. This seems to be difficult to comprehend for the emotional thinkers but is really not so hard to comprehend, at least not for the logical thinkers.

From: Pasquinell

13-Apr-18

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Well said Capt. Its comprehension issues for sure not understanding the term BOW.

From: Live2hunt

13-Apr-18

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All the x-gun users and all who bowhunt this state should read History Of Wisconsin Bowhunting by Bill McCrary. Maybe you will understand how we got a Bow Season in this state, and why Bowhunters are upset. There are years of work and dedication to the sport that you are unaware of that even give you the opportunity to hunt our season with x-guns.

From: Live2hunt

13-Apr-18

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All the x-gun users and all who bowhunt this state should read History Of Wisconsin Bowhunting by Bill McCrary. Maybe you will understand how we got a Bow Season in this state, and why Bowhunters are upset. There are years of work and dedication to the sport that you are unaware of that even give you the opportunity to hunt our season with x-guns.

From: albino

13-Apr-18

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I see they are still here & getting dumber each time. They must want to be hunters really bad. The season will be adjusted & we will still not want them here. We can't even get the true facts & numbers but they read it on the internet & are instant experts. It is so simple. You have a Million Forums. You got your bowhunters, you got you Mustang Forum, you got your Corvette Forum, you got your crossbow forum, you got your crossdresser forum. Everyone has a Happy place. Just because they both say cross that does not mean they are the same. I would much prefer the xdressers on here than the xbowers. DO YOU GET IT YET?

From: 70lbdraw

13-Apr-18

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Buckmaster, I lived in Sun Prairie for 15 years and still own that home. I may be back one day. I loved Wisconsin, but my ability to bowhunt depended on knowing someone that would allow me to hunt their land, or be stuck in a public zone with 6 guys hunkered down within 25 yards of me. Even if hunting with a rocket launcher was legal. So I still have a vested interest in WI hunting laws. I dont care about the new fangled stuff, but I care about the sport. And WI has soms damn good laws compared to other places I've lived. Not only do you get 1 deer, but you have to enter a lottery against thousands of others just to get a fighting chance.The liberals in WI do a good enough job of driving a wedge between themselves and folks like us. To act them when it comes to hunting, does us no good at all.

From: buckmaster69

13-Apr-18

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Live2hunt if I leave Monday for my turkey hunt and ice fishing trip I think I will pick one up.

From: Missouribreaks

13-Apr-18

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Aye, Aye Captain!

From: Live2hunt

13-Apr-18

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Buck, you should, its a good read.

From: JTV

13-Apr-18

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JTV's embedded Photo JTV's embedded Photo

Suuuuure, it a bow

From: HunterR

13-Apr-18

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"Maybe you will understand how we got a Bow Season in this state, and why Bowhunters are upset. There are years of work and dedication to the sport that you are unaware of that even give you the opportunity to hunt our season with x-guns."

Not all bowhunters are upset, I'm guessing most don't even care that they have to share the rut with a few other hunters these days. The loud repetitive posting ones in this thread calling names/etc although not the norm out in the real world their posts come across as very angry and out of sorts which is a bit amusing to read. Anyway, the part of your post that is incorrect is where you say that crossbow hunters hunt "our season with x-guns." From what I understand those crossbow hunters are hunting their own season, a "separate" season that just happens to take place during the exact same time period as "your" season. I'm sure someone else here can explain to you how wonderful this separate season is better than I can but I remember hearing about how great it would be since it is separate from "your" season. Why isn't everyone happy and cheering and thanking those that were involved with creating this "separate" season?

From: CaptMike

14-Apr-18

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"I'm sure someone else here can explain to you how wonderful this separate season is better than I can but I remember hearing about how great it would be since it is separate from "your" season. greedhunterrrr, pay attention to what is going on with the NRB and you MIGHT comprehend why giving x-bows is and was such a great idea. The comprehension issues are symptomatic of you and your fellow x-bow hunters, not that of bow hunters. No thanks needed, I am happy to help!

From: longbowbud

14-Apr-18

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How many times does it have to be repeated before the crybaby whiners can comprehend. It is not our archery season, it`s open to anyone, ANYONE! Simple, just buy a real BOW, practice, make it a great part of your life, dedicate yourself to become as proficient as possible, and hunt the nice long ARCHERY season.

IT`S THAT SIMPLE!!!!!

Its not a right, it is a privilege! There is a long season precisely BECAUSE the weapon is harder to kill with, it has limits. We limit everything in hunting, 3 shot plugs, size of rifle caliber, bag limits etc. It was never meant to be a management tool, it has a longer season because it is supposed be a challenge. It was fought for on that basis.

Of course the crossgun whiners all know all this, but they need to throw up all the gray areas and silly straw men to try to get what they think they are entitled to.

From: buckmaster69

14-Apr-18

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What I can't understand is why they keep coming back. There is no way they are goin to change anyones mind. Actually.... they motivate me and Im sure the rest of us.

From: HunterR

14-Apr-18

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"greedhunterrrr, pay attention to what is going on with the NRB and you MIGHT comprehend why giving x-bows is and was such a great idea. The comprehension issues are symptomatic of you and your fellow x-bow hunters, not that of bow hunters. No thanks needed, I am happy to help! "

Captmike, that's cute what you did with my name, very witty for a 12 year old. Speaking of comprehension issues I've stated here before that I don't hunt with a crossbow, I would think you'd know that since you stalk anyone's posts that don't agree with you. I hunt with a high-tech "primitive" compound. I imagine there are a few guys that might be thanking you when and if the DNR decides too many deer are being killed (hard to say that without laughing) and shortens the crossbow season but again those guys are the minority and simply too greedy to share "their" rut with other hunters. Thanks for playing. ;-)

From: Live2hunt

14-Apr-18

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Hunter, x-guns don't have a "season" yet. They are trying to decide a season. They just lumped it in with the bow season. Do you understand that.

From: HunterR

14-Apr-18

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So the crossbow season that runs during the same time as the archery season is not really a crossbow season? "Lumped in with the bow season" sounds like full inclusion, which I kept hearing didn't happen either. Apparently I don't understand. Maybe the 6 or so of you angry hunter haters that are jealous that other hunters are having a chance at your easy to kill rutted up bucks can explain it in a different way so we all can understand. BTW what is a x-gun? Do you mean a crossbow?

From: Live2hunt

14-Apr-18

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Yep, I see you clearly don't understand any of it. I hope they open up the season for all weapons. Your mindset is sad, no effort, easy kill. The mindset of all x-gun hunters, right?

From: buckmaster69

14-Apr-18

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Explain... explain ... explain... like talking to a block of wood.

From: albino

14-Apr-18

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YUP. +1+1+1, I think that equals 4. ( I'm assuming the Yup is the first +).... HUH? I keep hoping they will be gone away from a bowhunting site. WOW they are dense. I am guessing they are members of the wolf patrol.

From: 10PntBow

14-Apr-18

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Buck - no one here is trying to change your mind. Just trying to get a sense..so if xbows don't belong in archery season...when should the season be? Are you really that biased towards a xbow or you just don't like hunters using them in the archery season bcs they aren't 'bows' ?

From: RJN

14-Apr-18

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10 pt- do you also believe a 3rd air bow season should run concurrent with the xgun and bow season? If no, why not?

From: 10PntBow

14-Apr-18

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Honestly, it wouldn't matter to me. I could careless what my neighbor or other hunters are hunting with as long as its legal.

From: Drop Tine

14-Apr-18

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There is no biological or scientific reason to alter the season. If there is, please share the study.

Overall kill is down, bow kill is down, crossbow is up and just shows a shift in the tool used. I’m sorry but the crossbow eclipsing the bow kill by 2000 animals in a herd of 1.4M does not show a need to do anything.

From: CaptMike

14-Apr-18

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Greedhunterrr, ivecread your posts enough here to know you converse at a twelve year old's level so I just dumbed it down so you had a chance to understand.

From: RJN

14-Apr-18

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Drop tine- what is the main reason for xguns besides hunters with a disability? If you don't care about weapon choice, then your for airbows, rifles, or anything in our bow season.

From: CaptMike

14-Apr-18

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RJN, no that is only for his wife. He is a pure bow hunter! ;)

From: Drop Tine

14-Apr-18

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Capt. Give me a science or biological based fact that there is a reason to make change and I can accept that. The BS you spout off on brings nothing to the table. And yes I’m a “pure” bowhunter. I actually just found my first hunting bow and I’m going to slap a string on it and for giggles attemp to kill another deer with it. Then if successful I’ll try and get one with my dads Bear Kodiak.

From: RJN

14-Apr-18

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Dt- what is the main reason for xguns for all during the bow season?

From: RUGER1022

14-Apr-18

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I'll ask again . Why do the pro crossbow people continue to hang around a BOWSITE . Go find a crossbow site & STAY there .

From: Drop Tine

14-Apr-18

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Drop Tine's embedded Photo Drop Tine's embedded Photo

Because at this time I don’t see it hurting a thing. In a herd of 1.4M deer this is the percentage difference in the kill between bow and crossbow. It’s a pimple on a elephants butt.

From: RutnStrut

14-Apr-18

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"Because at this time I don’t see it hurting a thing. In a herd of 1.4M deer this is the percentage difference in the kill between bow and crossbow. It’s a pimple on a elephants butt."

That's a whole different thread/subject as you are very naive if you believe what the DNR tells you are in the state for deer numbers.

From: Pasquinell

14-Apr-18

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Oh wow... do you really believe those numbers Drop? Look at that picture of the crossbow someone provided Drop and tell me that shouldn't be in a rifle season before archery. Not even close to being bow like and everyone knows it.

From: 10PntBow

14-Apr-18

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DT - agree 110%.

From: 10PntBow

14-Apr-18

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From: Drop Tine

14-Apr-18

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Pasq, I’ll say it once again. The overall kill is down. The bow kill is down, the crossbow kill is up only reflecting the shift of the tool being used.

As I said show me something based on biology or science that a change needs to be made and I can accept that. Everything I read here gives me nothing but a headache.

From: buckmaster69

14-Apr-18

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Pas..... I agree with you 110%

From: K Cummings

14-Apr-18

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Studies show that actual success rates with crossbows is virtually the same as the success rate with vertical bows (somewhere between 30-35%). Therefore if everyone that currently shoots a vertical bow were to switch to a crossbow, the kill would be very close to the same.

Where is the major crossbow advantage?

KPC

From: buckmaster69

14-Apr-18

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cross guns are not archery

From: K Cummings

14-Apr-18

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What do you base that on buckmaster69? Your opinion? A crossbow meets the definition of a bow:

bow

a weapon for shooting arrows, typically made of a curved piece of wood whose ends are joined by a taut string.

synonyms: longbow, crossbow; recurve

A crossbow bolt meets the definition of an arrow:

ar·row

a shaft sharpened at the front and with feathers or vanes at the back, shot from a bow as a weapon or for sport.

synonyms: shaft, bolt, dart

Therefore using them would meet the definition of archery:

ar·cher·y

the sport or skill of shooting with a bow and arrows, especially at a target.

KPC

From: CaptMike

14-Apr-18

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K, your figures are flawed if looked at as a percentage of hunters.

From: K Cummings

14-Apr-18

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Percentage of hunters is irrelevant when the success rate is the same.

If 35 out of a hundred bowhunters are successful with a vertical bow, that's a 35% success rate. If 35 out of a hundred bowhunters are successful with a crossbow, that;s a 35% success rate. If there are a 200,000 bow hunters, they are going to kill 70,000 deer regardless of whether they all use crossbows, they all use vertical bows, or they use any combination of either.

It's basic math.

KPC

From: CaptMike

14-Apr-18

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The math calculation is correct, your numbers are wrong. Why are so many crossbow users flocking to this site to spew lies and deceit?

From: Pasquinell

14-Apr-18

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Drop I can't and won't comment on science etc. I understand the need for science etc but I am not smart enough or willing to study it. I try and keep things simple in life and I guess that includes knowledge and my brain. I have been chastised about only relying on "logical emotions" before and good with it each time.

I am asking you to set aside your numbers or need for science a minute. Look at that picture on here and tell me it belongs in the bow hunting season with a straight face. I truly believe you agree it doesn't.

It's very funny how the xbows guys from other states are piling in to try and defend like Capt. said.

From: RutnStrut

14-Apr-18

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Here is what you crossbow lovers don't get. Say the average bowhunter has an opportunity at a certain amount of bucks in a season. The added difficulty of using a real bow allows a higher percentage of those encounters to live. The superior weapon that more "hunters" are switching to is easier to use therefore more efficient. I don't want to hear about how easy it is to shoot a compound. If it was that easy, the crossbow lovers that are arguing that would be using one instead of a crossbow. Some things in life are sweeter when you work harder for them. But that seems to be forgotten in today's society.

From: K Cummings

14-Apr-18

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K Cummings's Link

"The math calculation is correct, your numbers are wrong. Why are so many crossbow users flocking to this site to spew lies and deceit?"

My numbers are contained in this article.

Furthermore, I'm not a "crossbow user." I've hunted exclusively with a recurve for decades. I have never hunted with a crossbow in my life, nor do I have any desire to hunt with one.

Ten years ago, I was as adamant about NOT wanting crossbows in the regular archery season as anyone. I believed all the doomsday predictions. After seeing the actual numbers, I've come to the conclusion that it was much ado about nothing. On a list of the top 5 things that pose the most risk to bowhunting, I would put crossbows at about number 11.

KPC

From: buckmaster69

14-Apr-18

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Don't you just love it ,,,,, no one hunts with them but they want you to accept them in Wisconsin. KPC.... you are so full of $hit.

From: K Cummings

14-Apr-18

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"Here is what you crossbow lovers don't get. Say the average bowhunter has an opportunity at a certain amount of bucks in a season. The added difficulty of using a real bow allows a higher percentage of those encounters to live. The superior weapon that more "hunters" are switching to is easier to use therefore more efficient."

Here's what you don't get. The actual statistics don't bear that out. The success rates between the two are about the same.

"I don't want to hear about how easy it is to shoot a compound. If it was that easy, the crossbow lovers that are arguing that would be using one instead of a crossbow. Some things in life are sweeter when you work harder for them. But that seems to be forgotten in today's society."

Here is where arguments based on emotion fail. Being a traditional bowhunter, couldn't I say the same thing about those using compounds?

KPC

From: K Cummings

14-Apr-18

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From: K Cummings

14-Apr-18

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From: K Cummings

14-Apr-18

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From: K Cummings

14-Apr-18

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KPC.... you are so full of $hit.

Show me. I showed you where I got my numbers from, show me where I'm "full of $shit."

KPC

From: Drop Tine

14-Apr-18

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KC, ignore Buck. He’s like a dog, all bark and no bite and brings nothing to the debate.

From: buckmaster69

14-Apr-18

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KPC..... You are full

From: buckmaster69

14-Apr-18

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DT at least I don't lie about having a agenda at the sprig hearings.

From: RJN

14-Apr-18

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Kpc- what is your reason for allowing xguns to be used by all hunters during the bow season. You are also like dt, hunterr, that believe any weapon should be used including the air bow? I keep asking the question but all I get is who cares as long as the #s are the same.

From: retro

14-Apr-18

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"Some things in life are sweeter when you work harder for them. But that seems to be forgotten in today's society." If thats true, how come everyone isnt still shooting trad bows? Why did everyone go to compounds? Added challenge? Thats the whole problem. Compound users complaining about people making it easier..... Of course nobody is going to listen to it. I despise whats happened with crossbows, but when a guy shooting a 30" a.t.a. high tech compound starts throwing a tantrum about people "cheating" there way into the sport, I dont take it seriously either. As I said before, the uninterrupted tech advancement in compound bows that "bowhunters" have been cheering on for many years is the reason we ended up where we are today. The pot is now arguing with the kettle.

From: Drop Tine

14-Apr-18

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Who did Buck, if your insulating that I did you’re so full of chit it’s overflowing. I didn’t even speak at the hearing other than to accept the nomination to another 3 year term. The rest of the time I was out front working the table handing out booklets and answering questions. Then remained out front to collect ballots of people leaving early and thanking them for attending.

Quit riding on the shirttails of others like Capt. Your embarrassing them with your lack of knowledge and single sentence insults.

From: K Cummings

14-Apr-18

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"Kpc- what is your reason for allowing xguns to be used by all hunters during the bow season. You are also like dt, hunterr, that believe any weapon should be used including the air bow? I keep asking the question but all I get is who cares as long as the #s are the same."

I have no reason for wanting them or not wanting them other than to help stem the tide of dwindling hunter numbers.

Same with compounds. I don't use them, have no desire to use them, but others do and I'm good with that.

Not sure about the airbow. Haven't given it much thought.

KPC

From: Missouribreaks

14-Apr-18

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This thread is proof that bowhunting, as defined by the P&Y Club, is going right down the sheeter.

From: Pasquinell

14-Apr-18

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Mr Cummings - all due respect but I smell a skunk within your answers.

From: RutnStrut

14-Apr-18

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"Here's what you don't get. The actual statistics don't bear that out. The success rates between the two are about the same."

Yet the actual statististics do in fact show that crossbows used during the archery season are a superior weapon.

From: CaptMike

14-Apr-18

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K Cummings, from the very bottom of the article you cite I found this. So tell us, just who is Adam Preston and what qualifies his article as the be all, end all? If you want to see accurate numbers, watch the video from the link that Tweed posted regards the NRB Board meeting. "Editor’s Note: If your business caters to deer hunters, it’s pretty clear that getting into some aspect of the crossbow market makes sense. For more perspective on crossbows’ impact on the hunting industry, read this previous blog by Adam Preston."

From: CaptMike

14-Apr-18

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"Quit riding on the shirttails of others like Capt. Your embarrassing them with your lack of knowledge and single sentence insults." DT, I am not embarrassed by a man who understands and respects what archery is. You on the other hand, when you call yourself a bow hunter, turn me a pale shade of red.

From: Drop Tine

14-Apr-18

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Again can Capt. Bring some science or a biological reason the season needs adjusting that I can accept. The fact you have dodged this for a few days now reflects that you have nothing to back your personal resentment to those that use crossbows to hunt. Pretty petty that you take opportunities away from people like my wife and youths. Just because crossbow hunters killed 2000 more bucks than bowhunters is not a reason.

From: K Cummings

14-Apr-18

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"Mr Cummings - all due respect but I smell a skunk within your answers."

Really? What might that be?

CaptMike:

I don't know Adam Preston from a cake of soap. I base my opinions on my experience here in MI and the articles that I read.

KPC

From: Thumper

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

Good luck with your voting down the use of crossbows during the general archery season. Their impact will be negligible in the beginning, as were the compounds when they first were allowed, and now look at the compound numbers, over 90%. Slowly their crossbow numbers will grow until they equal or out number compounds. Traditional bowhunting is no longer even in this dog fight as they currently make up only 3% or 4% of bowhunting today.

My objections: 1. Crossbow hunters will walk around and then climb it and out of deer stands, with a loaded Crossbow.

2. Crossbows will essentially shrink and end the growth of bowhunting

3. At least 75 TX hunters have cut their thumb off using a crossbow.

4. The crossbow, and high-fence, are not the "salvation for the future of hunting" as claimed.

JMO

From: RutnStrut

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

KPC I believe you are a troll from Crossbow Nation.

From: CaptMike

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

"I don't know Adam Preston from a cake of soap. I base my opinions on my experience here in MI and the articles that I read." You don't know him but you reference him and post a link to his article? You have just marginalized yourself to troll status.

From: K Cummings

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

Good grief you guys are paranoid.

That just happened to be the first article I found when I googled "success rates crossbows vs compound bows."

If you want the actual harvest reports, Michigan statistics can be found here:

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/3485_236922_7.pdf

In 2007 (pre- crossbow inclusion) overall bowhunting success rates were 34.6%. (page 34)

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/2016_deer_harvest_survey_report_575841_7.pdf

In 2016 (crossbow inclusion) the overall crossbow success rate was 33.6%. (page 57)

As to me being some kind of crossbow troll, give me a break. Do a search for my name on the Leatherwall (K Cummings or GEREP) and you will see my thousands of posts over there since about 2000. Or Archery Talk Traditional Forum (where I go by GEREP) since about 2003.

I will repeat, I have never hunted with a crossbow, nor do I have any desire to hunt with a crossbow, nor do I stand to benefit in any way from crossbows in the archery season. The numbers are the numbers, that's all I'm interested in.

KPC

From: Kevin @ Wisconsin

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

Kevin @ Wisconsin's embedded Photo Kevin @ Wisconsin's embedded Photo

From: CaptMike

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

"If you want the actual harvest reports, Michigan statistics can be found here:' This is a WI forum and the topic regards crossbows in WI. I did not post the article, you did and you referenced it. Now I will take Kevin's advice and let you be.

From: albino

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

Must be the City Stats like the City Slicker Pauly Smit. That wrote da udder article. You form da city boy? I think those huggers are pretty shaky for some reason.

From: K Cummings

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

Of course you will CaptMike, we all know that crossbows are more efficient in WI than they are in MI.

I'll leave you alone too. I can plainly see that very few people here want to discuss actual statistics, they just want to ague on emotion. Good luck this coming season, regardless of what bow you choose.

KPC

From: albino

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

From: albino

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

From: albino

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

From: albino

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

Oh Wow Man, I think I got a @TWICH. I better get a x gun dude.

From: albino

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

Thank You KK. Bye hey. Don't come back now ya here?

From: albino

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

Hey guys, show them your nuts & maybe they will leave. lol

From: CaptMike

14-Apr-18

Private Reply

"Hey guys, show them your nuts & maybe they will leave." Or, they may flock to me like the squirrels they are.

From: Pasquinell

15-Apr-18

Private Reply

Mr short Cummings said " Good grief you guys are paranoid" Uh... look at the out of state xgun users on the Wisconsin site trying to state how they love them.

Who's paranoid?

From: JTV
15-Apr-18
agree on the CWD... I'm just a proud BOWhunter...not saying the crossbows dont have a place, just not in archery seasons.... I work long and hard on being proficient with both styles of vertical bows... Recurves/long bows are so much simpler, but I love the compound Bowtechs also ... I work long hours on form and shot execution... in my years as archery/gun sales, I set up and sold many dozens of crossbows, I just dont see why a true archer/BOWhunter would want one or to use one... If I want easy, I'll go back to my firearms.... the last time I used a firearm was for a special draw gun only hunt in 2012, prior to that it was prolly 4-6 years when I last used my slug gun or ML... I enjoy gun hunting, just not for deer and ungulates. I just enjoy the challenge of archery and vertical bows so much more..... IF I had used a crossbow this past season, it would have been easy to kill either one of two different big bucks... however, because of the use of a vertical bow and limitations using them I passed on both... I'll stick to my vertical equipment, been killing critters/deer/boar/turkey/etc with them for over 30 years and I sure as heck aint changing now .. ..

From: K Cummings
15-Apr-18
"IF I had used a crossbow this past season, it would have been easy to kill either one of two different big bucks..."

I know what you mean JTV, I run into the same thing every year shooting a recurve with no sights. I let deer walk every year that would have been chip-shots with a compound, BUT...that's the game I choose to play. I know the limitations, I accept the limitations and I hunt within those parameters. If someone else chooses different parameters, it doesn't affect my game at all.

I'm not saying this is the case with you, but in my opinion what this all boils down to for many is the thought that someone might get an earlier or easier crack at "their" big buck before they do. Same is true for early youth seasons. We see it all time. People wax poetically about getting the young people involved in our heritage, but God forbid those youngsters shoot anything but a yearling doe in their damn early seasons.

KPC

From: longbowbud
15-Apr-18
For a guy who professes to be so smart, you sure are making some stupid arguments.

"but in my opinion what this all boils down to for many is the thought that someone might get an earlier or easier crack at "their" big buck before they do. "

I dont know how many times it has been stated, but again, the archery season has always been open to everyone. Just buy a damn bow, practice, dedicate yourself to get as proficient as possible, and BOWHUNT. The long seasons are in place because the weapons are limited, hand drawn. It was never meant to be easy.

Simple. Maybe too simple for some.

A shoulder fired weapon, shooting what even the crossgun companies are touting as 100 or even 200 yard weapons, are not archery equipment. It has not brought any new hunters to the fold.

They want a season, fine. It simply cant and wont be as long as the archery season, and for good reason. The WI powers were smart to separate, and see what a few seasons of the crossgun would bring. Now we know.

Lastly, it has NOT brought new hunter to the fold. In one breath we hear about all the new hunters that are going to be coming in, it was a selling feature for them. Then when the numbers dont bear that out they say, yes but the deer kill has not changed! Which is it?? Or do they just want an easier way to kill a deer? They bitch about fairness, how fair is it im hunting with a stick and they are using a shoulder fired string gun?

From: K Cummings
15-Apr-18
First and foremost longbowbud, I never professed to be any smarter than anyone else.

Second, a compound bow is a 100 yard weapon also. Like it or not, so is a recurve and a longbow. The only limiting factor is the archer being able to put the arrow where in needs to go at that distance, and the animal that your shooting at staying in position until the arrow arrives. The notion that any Tom, Dick, or Harry can pick up a crossbow and be shooting even 12" groups at 100 yards is a fantasy. Possible, yes...with a lot of practice. But then again the same thing is possible with a sighted compound or recurve. People (not me) do it all the time.

"They bitch about fairness, how fair is it im hunting with a stick and they are using a shoulder fired string gun?"

Who said anything about "fairness?" Certainly not me. I hunt with a recurve, knowing full well it is more difficult. That's my choice. That's part of the reason I chose the weapon I did. Your comment does tend to expose your reason for not liking them though.

Lastly, studies DO indicate that crossbows are getting more people involved in bow-hunting as well as helping to retain older hunters that prior to inclusion would have dropped out. Your argument makes about as much sense as saying why bother using a tourniquet, after all it doesn't ADD any blood to a patient that is bleeding out.

KPC

From: K Cummings
15-Apr-18
Longbowbud:

FWIW, you are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts. I noticed what you posted about me over on the WI thread and it's simply not true. What you posted there was a lie.

KPC

From: longbowbud
15-Apr-18
Yep, and it takes years of dedicated practice to get to that level, with a bow of course. And a tiny, select few can ever or will ever do that.With a crossgun, 15 minutes on a rest and it is easy. But of course you know that, but it sure helps your argument. Dont tell me different, I have been in this game since the 70`s.

You know nothing about WI, look at the numbers. No number increase, just a shift. Total hunter numbers, all seasons, all weapons, in total, that is what they(DNR) looks at. No increase. We are trying to keep the archery season long for everyone who shoots a bow, present and future.

The spring hearings all we heard about from your crossgun crowd was about fairness, but of course you were not there, and know nothing about what is happening here. Its is the crossgunners who argued that at the hearings. Which begs the question, why are you interjecting your opinion in WI ?

From: longbowbud
15-Apr-18
The truth hurts?

From: K Cummings
15-Apr-18
"Which begs the question, why are you interjecting your opinion in WI ?

Because the subject interests me, and MI went through the same thing a number of years ago and I'm here to tell you that it's not the end of the world like I and many others thought it was going to be. Is that not a valid reason?

" You know nothing about WI, look at the numbers. No number increase, just a shift. Total hunter numbers, all seasons, all weapons, in total, that is what they(DNR) looks at."

I've been around this game for along time too Bud, and anyone who thinks that the concern is only about growing hunter numbers simply hasn't been paying attention. Most states would be happy to just retain hunter numbers at current levels as opposed to what we've been experiencing over the last couple decades.

WI is not unlike MI, or most other states in that regard.

"The truth hurts?

Post something truthful and I'll let you know. So far, your posts have been lacking in that regard.

KPC

From: longbowbud
15-Apr-18
MI and WI are totally different, different season structure, hunter mentality (you prove that). We have way better quality of deer, a better season structure, longer seasons etc. We dont want to end up like MI, the giant cornpiling forkhorn capital of the midwest. Your season is a mess, age structure is a mess and in general sucks compared to WI. WE dont need to emulate you in that regard.

From: Huntcell
15-Apr-18
Whoa! Following each other around the Internet that enough. Time to close this down........ ) >>>>~~~~> • <~~~~<<< €

From: MK111
15-Apr-18
Ever hear the comment "opinions are like butt holes and everyone has one and you can change it".

From: longbowbud
15-Apr-18
And KPC, mr. superior intellect high road, you talk about keeping older hunters in the fold. The proposal we are debating does NOTHING to change the season for older folks or anyone disabled. It is proven crossguns do not help recruit new people if you look at overall numbers. It is a shift. We arent talking about taking away the crossgun, we have already lost that battle. Maybe if you knew what proposal was on the table, to set the crossgun season, you would not need to interject your uninformed opinion.Then again that would prove you arent the smartest guy in the room. How bout that for some facts, mr. high road.

From: RutnStrut
15-Apr-18
KPC must have an awful lot of time on his hands...

From: Rocky
15-Apr-18
I know one thing and the Republican Party is proof positive. Once the infighting begins the group as a whole is weakened. Hunters in general and hunting specifically nationwide are not exactly on solid ground as a future recreational investment. Every hunter has a voice and the group would do well to hear them all to keep them in the fold.

The Rock

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