Why camo is unnecessary
General Topic
It's August and I'm bored so here goes. I think nothing proves that camo doesn't help more than watching the dark blob hunters on the tv shoes sneaking across the prairie in their dark camo, which make them look like dark lumps in a sea of tan.
In spite of that they sometimes get the deer.
I agree. I think that camo makes little if any difference. I hiked up a mountain one morning and bugled when I got on top. I got no response, so I decided it was time to take off the undershirt I was wearing after sweating on the hike up. I took my camo shirt off and was about to take my bright red tee shirt off when a 6 point bull came in quiet. He walked right up to me stopping about 10 feet away in the open, with me just standing still in my red tee-shirt. After a minute the wind blew his direction, and he immediately bolted.
Only reason I like camo, it helps me remain undetected to "two legged predators".
If I hold real still, they just walk right past :^)
But every year a new pattern is released which is a "game changer"! You must buy all new game changer camo if you want to kill, last year's camo will not work! You must also buy a new bow every year.
But every year a new pattern is released which is a "game changer"! You must buy all new game changer camo if you want to kill, last year's camo will not work! You must also buy a new bow every year.
I think it matters more to the hunter than the hunted in most situations.
I agree about hunters looking like dark blobs against a light background most of the time, most camo is way too dark. I've always wondered why they don't make really light colored camo for hunting on the prairie, I think it's more about selling products that look good to hunters and not so much the animals. In the last few years I've switched to buying solid colors for hunting clothes, that way my best clothing can be used for hiking and backpacking trips too.
As someone who once shot a deer with a bow while wearing a bathrobe I wholeheartedly agree with you...Camo is not necessary.
I don't know, ever since I immersed myself in Sitka the ladies really like me:)
Works good in the field too!!!
I think that generally blending in with the tone of the background is important, as well as breaking up the human outline. Thus, I think leafy/ghillie type garments that generally match the overall tone of the surrounding environment are best - but not absolutely necessary for success. I killed my first deer with a bow wearing the same clothes I wore to school earlier that day.
Really? Try getting close to an Eastern whitetail or better yet an Eastern Wild turkey up here in the North East with a pair of blue jeans and a plane shirt on. Good lord, your right it must be August!
Some camo is useless. Some flat our works. Some hunters are useless, some flat our killers. The killers will kill regardless of what they're wearing, and the useless will still have their issues regardless of what they do.
Marketing pure and simple. Killed my first deer in a pair of blue jeans and grey and black checkered flannel at 10 yards.
Being 20 feet in a tree you don't need it, but being in the ground hunting pressured whitetails, I'll take my ASAT any day.
The thing is. . . it is unnecessary in a lot of circumstances. But who knows when that circumstance is going to happen where it could make a difference?
I spend thousands of dollars every year on tags, hunting draw applications, etc. Spend a lot of time away from home and work. And I want good quality warm clothing anyways, so what does it hurt to spend a little bit extra to have camo on it?
Or what about the guy that spends $40,000 for a Stone's Sheep hunt? Spending a couple hundred extra dollars on camo clothes is nothing in the scheme of that
So it may be unnecessary, but it's also unnecessary to go without it, in my opinion.
I spend hundreds of hours in treestands in the fall chasing mature whitetails. I don't care about the little bucks. I rarely shoot a doe. Camo is probably unnecessary most of the time. But I've also been pinned in the tree by mature bucks, that stared holes in me, then relaxed, and I was able to kill them. Would that have been possible without some camo? I don't know. But I'm not willing to risk it to save a few hundred dollars. When a whole year of preparation, scouting, and many hours on stands comes together on that one chance I MAY get at a mature buck each fall, I'm not willing to risk my ONE shot just to save a few bucks on camo.
Bake
Going from blob camo to patterns like Predator or Vertigo I don't even get looked at. Sure, I have killed some good bucks with blob camo, but Predator, ASAT, Vertigo and the like I don't have to worry about being seen, which just gives me an extra edge. I wear my blob camo in the ground blind most of the time.
Ohiohnter, it is all anecdotal evidence. I personally have killed a mature doe (which is more difficult than a horny buck during the rut) with and without camo, with and without scent control, with and without a rage, but always on the ground.
Our forebearers hunted nekked so, as much as I love ASAT, it has no substantive claim to my DNA. :)
There are always exceptions to everything but as Bake pointed out when and why would you take that chance if the whole point of being there is being undetected
Pat I was going to say the same thing. Another reason I'm still a big fan of the predator fleece fall grey as one of the ultimates in camo. The little bit of "fluff" makes a big difference.
Big difference in "necessary" and "gives an edge".
Is it necessary? No. You likely can get something killed in the right circumstances without it. If you don't think it gives any edge I'm guessing you've never done any spot 'n stalk on heavily pressured axis. Elk and some other game seem on prozac, so I think some hunts it likely doesn't matter as much.
The right kind of camo matters too. ASAT leafy jacket and facemask were game changers here. I've had deer nearly walk into me before. Feel neked without it. Many times you can see the deer trying to look "though" you...
Blue jeans are fine for many activities..... but they have to be just about the worst hunting pants imaginable....... admittedly it ain't cuz they are blue.... I've seen a bunch of camo "blue jeans" that they sell a ton of and are just as bad.
I believe I look COOL wearing camo, so I am going to wear it. :) :) :) X 10
I work too hard for my money to wear anything but worn out blue jeans and plaids.
Try calling in and killing a coyote from the ground with a bow, without camo... Ed F
None of it is necessary; wheel bow, perfectly machined broad heads, windicator, camo, scent-killer, etc. but that's the name of the game really, I choose what I want to wear and don't really care what others wear. Heck, go back to a sinew-backed traditional bow and a napped arrow head if you want. I'll take any advantage I can afford, lol.
I'm firmly in the "not necessary" camp, but I still buy and and wear it alongside my plaid and drab earthtones. I think part of it is that I hunt public and I like to be hidden from other hunters and hikers. I like ASAT and Predator.
Not all camo is equal. Some patterns work much better than others. I think you don't need camo to help you kill things, but I think certain camos do help break up the human silhouette. The "dark blob" camos are lame. But other camps can break up the human form and I think that's good!
Fabric does have a lot to do with it. At least it has a lot to do with my selections, not sure what the deer think.
I can spot a guy in a tree from a half mile if he's wearing Sitka. If I was lost in the mountains, I'd want Sitka camo on so the airplanes could easily see the glare of my suit.
Being 20 feet in a tree you don't need it, but being in the ground hunting pressured whitetails, I'll take my ASAT any day.
show me your mature bucks that you shot in blue jeans and a flannel shirt. there is always someguy who says you don't need this or that and he can prove it with the one big buck he shot in 30 years of hunting. i'll take my skyline horizon and shoot 30 in 30 years.
Good to know only guys wearing "skyline horizon" kill mature bucks.
Glare on Sitka.... ummm. Funny you complain about the glare on Sitka, cause I used to love the stuff. But I also dust my bows with spray paint to cut the glare off, even the camo ones!!
Camo leafy suits. When the wind blows, you look like a bush or leaves on a tree. The stuff works.
How do you know what I spend my money on? I typically wear green or brown shirts and pants. Sometimes a camo vest cause I like the pockets for my rangefinder and wind checker. I don't wear camo cause it's camo, I wear it occasionally because I don't have that same piece of clothing in a solid.
Elk spot movement easiest. After that they'll pick up your outline as a human if they've lived thru a season or two. Limit their ability to detect those two and you'll be in pretty good shape.
I don't worry about glare, depending on the foliage I'm around. Aspens and snow berry leaves shine like chrome.
An old guide told me you only need black when hunting in timber and grey or army green in the open. He told me to think about it. But all I could think about was i spent a couple grand on kuiu clothing the last few years.
If you sit in treestands for eastern whitetails you believe camo helps. If you hunt relatively unpressured deer (unpressured compared to the east and south) you often don't see the need to wear camo.
Fact: prey animals will see movement, hear, and smell you quicker than anything else.
Fact: most camo clothing is made from modern technology fabrics that outperform most synthetics and cotton.
Fact: camo clothing makes you look cool in a panoramic photo.
Fact: some camo patterns can help break up your outline.
What is camo clothing worth? Nothing. Everything.
This Eastern whitetails thing is a fallacy because I have had old momma does stare a hole through me at 10 yards in a blaze "pumpkin suit" and not see me. I am not even sold that a completely still sillouhette has ever spooked a deer.
Deer vision is deer vision.
I do agree to some extent that shiny synthetic materials can be trouble. I would err light (i.e. blaze orange to deer vison) before I wore solid black in a tree. In that respect the dark blob patterns which are many of the most popular can be bad too. And I agree that UV matters also.
I also try not to make eye contact. I think there is something to that. I am a predator and our vision is different, but I cannot begin to guess how many times the eyes were the first thing my brain spotted on an animal standing in the brush.
I'm in Paul@thefort's camp.
It's definitely necessary too. Blacktail Bob has just been lucky all these years!
On the margin, camo can definitely help. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. Necessary? No.
From farther away camouflage with the largest light colored areas are the most concealing....like the ASAT or Predator. Another nice camo pattern is the Cabelas "Outfitter" and of course the tried and true original Army camo pattern.
Some of you might recall a camo line called "Skyline Camo" it was specifically designed to be worn only while in a tree stand. It was IIRC black and gray stripes against a white background. It was supposed to make you blend into the sky if a deer looked up at you because you would simply look like sky seen through countless tree limbs. I had some and had my friends look up at me while on stand wearing it and they all swore it worked perfectly. Never understood why it didn't sell better. I guess it didn't look cool.
Camo is not a man made concept. There is incredible camoflage in nature...just about everywhere you look. I'm guessing our Creator doesn't read Bowsite.
Agree with pav. There's a reason tigers have stripes...and it ain't cause they look cool.
When archery hunting camo that is well matched helps at least some....and there is little to dispute that. Even the Indians tried to blend in. To argue that point is rather lame. Geez.
Deer don't have stripes, think about how they appear and disappear. I would rather wear light earth tone clothing and sit in the shadows of the forest then spend a thousand dollars on pretty art blob camo and climb a tree. I do endorse the ASAT leafy suit, and I have some predator, and I like Nat Gear and Mothwing type camo.
You will do much better restricting your movements and using common sense on where you are stationed than dressing for a fashion show. Camo certainly does not hurt, but in my opinion is not a wise use of my money when hunting simple animals such as deer.
You will do much better restricting your movements and using common sense on where you are stationed than dressing for a fashion show. Camo certainly does not hurt, but in my opinion is not a wise use of my money when hunting simple animals such as deer.
Mountain lions tend to disappear fairly well, and they don't have a camo pattern.....it's just about matching your surroundings.
If you want to buy camo then buy it and be happy. If not, then don't. I agree that it's situational and can work great sometimes, but there's no denying that a lot of it is just marketing to hunters and their wallets.
camo gets me in the hunting mindset. when I get dressed it's game on....just like you guys that put your sport jerseys on to watch the big game. whats the reason for that??
Last year Morgan and I hunted urban area of my old home town.
She wore camo and I did not. Heck lots of times I don't even use it much anymore on my lease.
Look at the folks who have killed animals for decades and say its 100% not needed. Folks Like bigdan, blacktailbob, LKH and many others here on bowsite.
During the last 2 years with wearing camo and not wearing camo I have not seen one bit of difference in being detected.
LOL Last year that first week of my 3 week hunt I didn't see a single deer for the first 7 days and not even a squirrel for the first three. I believe I wore camo that first week?
I use to think it was so important but for those who have killed 4-5 times more animals than I have and say it isn't necessary I will take their advise.
Good consumers need the latest greatest camo clothes. Good hunters don't.
KUIU has their new lines of clothing only in camo (at least the first shipments). Must be better - or at least more marketable. I will wait for their solids - or find something else if they don't come out with anything but camo.
It is a fact beyond doubt that deer are superbly capable and equaled by fow in ability to picking out the human form from their surroundings. It is also fact beyond all doubt that movement is what gets ALL animals spotted regardless if they are predator or pray. I have had deer, turkey and elk all pass within mere feet of me while I remained rock still. I use camo because there are few if any cloths that are not como that will work anywhere near as well for use in a hunting application. I wear only 100% synthetic or wool cloths when hunting and non camo cloths that are of the same type are either the same price or more expensive and not that useful or down rite useless for hunting so that leaves me little option but to by cloths spacifically designed for hunting. I don't know how save for wearing blue jeans or carharts, both IMHO poor choices for hunting in cold windy weather hunters are afforded any other sensible choice. I lucked out over 20 years ago when Gander Mtn sold their catalog business to cabelas and was closing their Wilmont WI. catalog outlet store that resold all catalog MO items that were returned. ANYTHING with camo was 75% off the already discounted price and everything else was either 60-75% off . I left there with three shopping carts full of camo pants, shirts, jackets, gor-tex insulated bibs and jackets and even Gor-tex rain gear. As I only use my hunting cloths for actual hunting, I still have and use over 95% of all those cloths. All I have bought since then has to be on sale and a killer, killer deal. 15 years ago I stumbled on 100% synthetic 6 pocket camo hunting pants and long sleeve T's made by Rocky that were actually made in the USA for $17 each. I bought 10 each of the pants and shirts. I look for bargain all the time and are utterly disgusted by the cost of all hunting clothing and the fact 99% is not made in this country by people who make what is in the developed world considered to be wages that are in reality slave labor makes me revile in disgust. Unfortunately I still need to buy cloths for my boys, so I am buying what ever works weather they be hunting or street cloths. After serving me faithfully for over 25 years and keeping me worm and dry my USA made polypro/wool insulated underwear the elastic in the bottoms finally lost its elasticity and would no longer stay up, a real PITA while walking and your long Johns keep falling down constantly. The cost of having new elastic sown in was as much as a new pair, so I just bout new tops. To my utter delight the same company that made my original tops and bottoms were still in business and making their products in my beloved USA. I bought 10 bottoms and even though I really didn't need them I bought 10 tops also just to show support for USA made clothes companies. I wouldn't buy foreign made insanely over priced insulated underwear like Under Armor under no matter what. My ploypo/wool long Johns have NEVER FAILED to kept me worm and dry by wicking away perspiration in temps as cold as -20*. Cloths like Under Armor are for IMHO for hunters more label conscious or who have much more disposable income than I. I can buy a 3-4x as many of my ins long Johns for the price of one or two sets of Under Armor and UA doesn't work 2-3x better than my old school polypro/wool LJ's. Forgot to add, about 6-7 years ago I was looking to buy some base layer LJ's and Cabelas had their X-Tec Base layers on sale (60% off) for $9.99 for a set of 2 tops or bottoms on a door buster sale. I went there before they opened but Unfortunately they ran out of 2xl almost instantly. I then saw a few days later Menards of all places advertised base layers on sale for $3.95 for a two pack of tops and bottoms. I went there and they were the SAME EXACT ones sold by Cabelas and were even X-Tecs and lots of 2xl so I bought all I would ever need. My point being the mark up on hunting clothes is IMHO nothing short of criminal.
It makes me more confident in a tree/on the ground while hunting. It's like putting on a nice shirt to go do a presentation for work.
Does either work? Do I do a better presentation for my job in a grubby T or polo? The presentation would be the same, but I have my "uniform" on and feel like I'm ready to rock.
Camo does that to me.
So... While it may not "work"... or it may... does not matter for me.
I enjoy it, and feel better hunting in it, so I do.
There is no question that camo "works", but is it essential for hunting success? Nope.
M/brakes, Stated as well as could be sums things up perfectly.
