Gross Use of Radios...
General Topic
I know radios are a tool and just like all tools they can be abused. But a thread in the Colorado section reminded of last fall and I felt like I should share and see how other feel.
So last fall a buddy had killed a pretty good buck during the rifle seasons. We were at the processor when a group from California showed up with all their ATVs 6 trucks 7 guys, etc. They were picking up meat and antlers etc. One guy was on Crutches after an atv accident. He came over checked out the buck and we asked what had happened. Needless to say he rolled his atv trying to catch up with elk. Broken leg 2 places and bruised ribs etc. I kind felt bad for him, but felt more sorry for his family as he nearly lost his lie over a silly elk. As we stood there we watched the group load up a couple bulls and I mentioned that they must have been pretty successful. The guy sad yeah we usually do pretty good...
He then started to brag about how they do so great... Here are the basic points of his story. They are a group of Fire Fighters from California, When they set up camp they use equipment from their search and rescue. This includes a central radio base with a 50 foot antenna. It also includes special radios and access to nonpublic radio channels (I am sure with right equipment you could get it). They have areas where they push in with ATVs ti get the animals running. 2 are pushers and 5 are blockers on Atvs. With everyone spotting for each other. When the elk run out they all talk on the radios and the closest guys to where the herd is heading uses his atv to cut them off. Usually shooting as the elk cross the road. They have several spots where this works really well.He was really proud of it. Needless to say both my buddy and I acted less than impressed.
It got me realizing that there are probably a lot more people out there like this and that this is probably just one of many examples.
How does this type of thing make you feel? Better yet, at what point does the kill become so important that you no longer consider the process?
As far as radios and cell phones, no doubt lots of people use them for legitimate purposes while hunting. But it is very much illegal to use motor vehicles to herd game to waiting hunters, or to hunt from motor vehicles. Page 17 of the Colorado Big Game brochure, item 9 reads:
"It is against the law to shoot from or use a motor vehicle, motorcycle, ohv, snowmobile, or aircraft to hunt, intercept, chase, harass, or drive wildlife". Those guys would also get nailed for radio use in that case, because the law says it is a separate violation to use electronic communication devices while in violation of any wildlife law. I'd definitely make a call or file a TIP report, but only if I witnessed it personally.
I guess if it is legal then I shouldn't questions their method. But personally, it does not sound like hunting to me.
Did you happen to mention to them that what they were doing is highly illegal? Or did they strike you as the type that already knew, and didn't care?
Per sticksender, it appears to be against the law.
Even if it not against the law, it doesn't make it right. I could cheat on my wife and it wouldn't break a law. But I would still be a pig and a low life.
Several years ago, up in north west Colorado we ran into a similar situation. After a morning hunt (rifle), I was sitting waiting for my partner to come to the vehicle and turned on my cheap two-way radio. Was goofing switching between channels when I came across a conversation between 4 to 6 persons that where chasing an heard of elk. My hunting partner showed up and we listened for another 30 minutes when one of the guys on the radio said he got one of the bulls. We discussed what we should do, and decided that we where not ready to drive 30 miles to get into cell service to report the issue; ruining my chances for hunting in the afternoon. I know lazy, but limit time in field.
After a lunch and a quick nap we headed to the trail head, not realizing I had left the radio on the group started up again, they has spotted a couple of bulls and they where planning the assault. My and my buddy looked at each other and turned around and headed for cell service. We call DOW and gave them our location and what we heard. We explained to them our radios were only good to maybe 5 miles but probably less. the officer asked us to wait for him and he would meet us at the location in two hours. Almost 4 hours later he showed up. After dark and after the action was done. The officer said that he and some other be out the rest of season trying to catch the group. We have no idea if anything came of it, but I did not see anything on DOW website. The group did broadcast the next day, but we did not hear them for the last two days of the season, but it was not uncommon for the group to leave on Saturday. Not that it matters, but we knew it was a large group from the south that had leased the same private ranch for over a decade. The area is mostly private and all the other ranches in the area are leased by reputable outfitters. No way public hunters could wrangle the elk like that.
Legal or not.... that ain't my cup of tea.
That isn't huntin' that's just killin'.
Nothing wrong with killing , it's just that I enjoy the hunting part a whole lot better.
A better question would be "When is it time to call the warden and report illegal hunting activity?" I'd bet even after the fact the game warden would've loved to have a little chat with those guys, but they'll probably be back this year and do the same thing...and get away with it.
Definitely illegal in Colorado, and can't be called hunting in my opinion.
It's grossly illegal. I'm not a tattle tale for piddly stuff but I would have reported that one. What motivates these slobs to behave like that?
If we don't help protect our resources who will? Please report that type of behavior.
Coelker,
I'd be willing to bet that group is also the type that probably won't eat much of the meat and will throw away last years frozen elk meat to make room in the freezer for this year's meat.
Clearly that was illegal in CO.
However, radios are used extensively by deer hunters that use loose hounds to chase the deer. This is legal in 8 southern states. The use of radios allows the hound hunters to coordinate which roads/fields the deer are about to cross before they get there. That way the hound hunters can get in position before emptying their shotguns loaded with buckshot. The hound hunters look down upon bowhunters and others types of deer hunters that can't shoot a moving target. They say it takes more skill to hit a running deer.
While it's not my preference it is 100% legal in VA, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, MS and LA.
Radios is one thing, sounded more like gross use of ATV's as a major sin here as well. What a shame. Elk hunting properly is so much fun these guys don't even know what they're missing
I know of no state that allows chase with vehicles. That's just one line that shouldn't be crossed for native big game animals. Mostly because it's highly detrimental to the animal and hunter.
As far as radios on foot - no issues whatsoever. Guys want to push on foot and update what they are seeing, etc. Cool. I would rather guys know where they are for safety and success.
They are not hunters, they are simply killers who want to go home and brag to the unknowing how great of hunters they are. Driving game with Atv's is ridiculous and they should be ashamed of themselves. Maybe a call to the DNR might have been in order? if they got thier Atv's confiscated and paid some heavy fines one of two things would happen. 1st is that they may just give up "hunting" because it just became to hard or 2nd they would realize how difficult it is and couldn't brag about killing year in and year out. So to the OP maybe this year you could drop a dime to the DNR, see what happens.
They are not hunters, they are simply killers who want to go home and brag to the unknowing how great of hunters they are. Driving game with Atv's is ridiculous and they should be ashamed of themselves. Maybe a call to the DNR might have been in order? if they got thier Atv's confiscated and paid some heavy fines one of two things would happen. 1st is that they may just give up "hunting" because it just became to hard or 2nd they would realize how difficult it is and couldn't brag about killing year in and year out. So to the OP maybe this year you could drop a dime to the DNR, see what happens.
It's clear that, to them, it's more about a dead animal than it is about hunting. That's just as offensive to me as poaching.
Back when I hunted with another guy we used radios to check in now and then. Sometimes when I was on the Continental Divide I'd put my little FRS-GMRS Talkabout on scan, and could listen in to conversations in four different units. Unbelievable some of the stuff I heard. I screwed with some of them too, when one guy was directing others in to an animal. I speak really good "southern" and can mimic most voices. Pretty funny when they started chewing each other out and cursing me!
I also learned that in CO many WCOs drive around with their scanners on to listen to conversations on those frequencies....
If it's legal and that's your cup of tea, go for it. It's certainly not mine.
That said, in Colorado (as others have pointed out) that type of activity is highly illegal. By the letter of the law, just letting another hunter know you see elk somewhere over a radio is illegal. This goes way beyond that and throws in the motorized vehicle dimension too!
"By the letter of the law, just letting another hunter know you see elk somewhere over a radio is illegal."
Its actually legal (in Colorado) and its also legal to direct a hunter to game. It's only illegal if its from an aircraft or you are using radios in conjunction with doing something else illegal (like these guys were).
You also can't enter an animal into P&Y if a radio was used in the process. Not that anyone pays attention to that.
I stand corrected!! I had been told by numerous folks that it is illegal. Looks like there are quite a few threads out there on this and still a lot of confusion, but the consensus is that using electronic communication is only illegal if you are breaking some other type of game law. For example, saying over "there are elk coming your way" is legal. Saying "there are elk coming your way, shoot one for me" puts it into the illegal category. Sorry for any confusion!
Only place that kind of "hunting" is ok is on the ____________ reservation...
Presuming the OP was the one who was told the story and this wasn't a cut/paste from the CO forum - since chasing animals with ATV's is clearly illegal (using ATV's to herd game, shooting across a road) and the meat processor almost undoubtedly has the names, addresses, and phone #'s of the firefighters and you should know the date , why not report it to the authorities?
Do not worry.... The authorities are aware of the situation and issue. Sadly since the guys were completely packed up with all gear and getting meat before leaving to return home, there was not much the CPW could do at all... This yea things will be different. I am pretty sure I know where they are hunting as does the officer. If they do it this year I hope to have it on video.
I have seen big ranches that herd animals as well. Non have done it worse than the Ranching For Wildlife guys around Craig...
I hope these scumbags are caught with a public lashing, losing their ability to hunt in multiple states, and fined to a level where it really hurts. We need to make sure every fire fighter in the country becomes aware of these scumbags. That's where the pain would be maximized.
"I have seen big ranches that herd animals as well. Non have done it worse than the Ranching For Wildlife guys around Craig..."
Yeah, there's a RFW ranch near Westcliffe where I'm pretty sure I saw some guys doing a little 'hazing' last year too...
Regardless of radio use, atv use, chasing game........shooting elk as they cross the road.......OMG. If this is a FS road or any other public road that is clearly illegal. And patently dangerous. Dumbshits.
I hunted a little chunk of public and the rancher wasn't happy someone figured out it was huntable. After a failed bluff and the Warden explaining that the only one wrong was him, things settled down. He held the grazing lease and the next year he would be checking cattle or fence on his ATV early in the morning and just before dark. Not sure how long it takes to check for cattle that aren't there but apparently 3 days in a row at prime hunting time is the preferred method :^)
I bet their employer would be interested in them using publicly owned equipment for personal use. (Especially a Kalifornia employer!) I'm a volunteer firefighter, and my butt would be in a sling for using my department's equipment for any kind of personal use - much less illegal use.
Unfortunately, harassing elk and hunters on public land - under the guise of "looking for cattle" or "checking fence" at first and last light is a common practice.
Didn't used to be that way before the explosion of ranchers selling elk. Money (and antlers) sure does change behavior and causes otherwise law abiding people to break the rules.
Sounds like a group that Big Bill Busbice would do well with lol,
In addition to illegal/unethical hunting, I am willing to bet that any S&R gear purchased by their department was probably bought with taxpayers funds, govt grant money or donated. Neither of which would approve of private use. If so, they are also guilty of "misappropriation of funds" if equipment is not used for the purpose intended. Add that to the list of charges.
