A Poor View of Hunters
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Bowriter 23-Oct-17
Bowriter 23-Oct-17
DaleHajas 23-Oct-17
stick n string 23-Oct-17
Salagi 23-Oct-17
Missouribreaks 23-Oct-17
PAbowhunter1064 23-Oct-17
TXHunter 23-Oct-17
APauls 23-Oct-17
M.Pauls 23-Oct-17
Missouribreaks 23-Oct-17
keith 23-Oct-17
Pigsticker 23-Oct-17
BIG BEAR 23-Oct-17
Ollie 23-Oct-17
Pigsticker 23-Oct-17
Bowriter 23-Oct-17
Bowfreak 23-Oct-17
12yards 23-Oct-17
XMan 23-Oct-17
ohiohunter 23-Oct-17
TD 23-Oct-17
Rut Nut 23-Oct-17
JacobNisley 23-Oct-17
Bowriter 23-Oct-17
Pigsticker 23-Oct-17
BigRed 23-Oct-17
JTV 23-Oct-17
Bowriter 23-Oct-17
Rut Nut 23-Oct-17
GF 23-Oct-17
Bowriter 24-Oct-17
Rut Nut 24-Oct-17
12yards 24-Oct-17
drycreek 24-Oct-17
midwest 24-Oct-17
Sage Buffalo 24-Oct-17
Timbrhuntr 24-Oct-17
GF 24-Oct-17
ohiohunter 24-Oct-17
Crusader dad 24-Oct-17
JTV 24-Oct-17
Pigsticker 24-Oct-17
Blacktail Bob 24-Oct-17
GF 24-Oct-17
Bowriter 25-Oct-17
Crusader dad 25-Oct-17
Blacktail Bob 25-Oct-17
Wapitidung 25-Oct-17
Rut Nut 25-Oct-17
stick n string 25-Oct-17
Rut Nut 25-Oct-17
ohiohunter 25-Oct-17
stick n string 25-Oct-17
Bou'bound 26-Oct-17
Crusader dad 26-Oct-17
Bullhound 26-Oct-17
Rut Nut 26-Oct-17
ohiohunter 26-Oct-17
stick n string 26-Oct-17
BigRed 26-Oct-17
Timbrhuntr 26-Oct-17
Bake 26-Oct-17
Timbrhuntr 26-Oct-17
stick n string 26-Oct-17
Rut Nut 27-Oct-17
Dave 27-Oct-17
Pigsticker 27-Oct-17
tradmt 27-Oct-17
ELKMAN 30-Oct-17
From: Bowriter
23-Oct-17
Another thread discussed why hunters are viewed with disdain. This is my column from last year. It recently won third place in a nationwide judging of outdoor columns. As an aside, my column is the longest, continuously running, outdoor xcolumn in the U.S. I am approaching my 42nd year. Over 40% of my readers are women and 46% are non-hunters. As you can see from this sample, I don't baby them or use any nice, p.c. language. And...I get invited to hunt a lot places owned by non-hunters who have allowed no hunting. So, read and enjoy...or not. This is exactly what the other thread was talking about.

Outdoors with John L. Sloan Oct. 5, 2016 A Poor View of Hunters. I don’t watch much outdoor programming. I don’t get most of the channels that show it. Before I start teeing off on this subject, let me first admit to some things. Yes, I have been a professional hunter. I have been compensated to hunt. I have been a professional guide, compensated to put other hunters on game. I have been on television and I have made hunting videos and I have promoted products and been compensated for it.

I was, for about 20-years, a trophy hunter. I admit to all those things. What I won’t admit to and don’t think I have ever done, is put the antlers or whatever above fair play and complete disrespect for the animals we kill. I am not ashamed of one single piece of footage in which I appeared. Nor am I ashamed of any article I have written regarding hunting. A few days ago, on someone else’s television, I watch as a doofus, (maybe one of your heroes,), made an archery, gut shot on a 130-inch whitetail. He then, all in whispers, although the deer is long gone, does an end zone style, victory dance complete with whispered exclamations explaining how he “smoked him”, gave him a “dirt nap” and is so excited about the “swamp donkey” he just shot. He is face-painted worse than any hooker I have ever come across-as if that mattered. It gets worse. He climbs down in the dark. Somehow, it went from morning to night. After talking about how hard they “worked” the blood trail, he finds the deer and lo and behold, it is bright daylight again. But wait. This deer is a much larger deer and the shot appears to be perfect, right behind the shoulder and the blood is still fresh??? And I have seen worse. It is not just one program. It is almost, all of them. There are a few good ones. Now to the heart of this discourse. It is several days into our archery hunting season and hunting seasons across the land either are open or are about to open. Thousands of bow hunters will be heading out, some of the youngsters on their entry level hunts. Hopefully, most of these hunters will understand what hunting really is. What it isn’t is a competition between humans! Write that down. There is nothing about hunting that requires a victory dance, high-fiving, fist bumping exuberance. You just killed something, a living, breathing animal. Show a little respect. Act like you have kin folk. You don’t have to act like the bulk of the television idiots. They are trying to be stars and sell products. Okay. What is hunting to me? The last and often least enjoyable part of hunting, to me, is the kill. The true enjoyment I get from hunting is unravelling the puzzle. The scouting, determining where the animals travel. The placement of the stand or blind. The sitting, watching learning what is happening in their world-the animals. When the time comes, if the opportunity is presented, yes, I kill. I do not harvest. I am not going to insult anyone by trying to make what I do more palatable to the squeamish. I don’t’ bag, I don’t harvest. I kill. That is what I am doing in the woods with a bow or firearm. I am there to kill. I am trying to culminate all the time I spent learning. When I do, I do have a feeling of satisfaction. Not because I killed something but because I did something right. However, when I do, I do not celebrate and I do not whisper. I am usually quiet, still, listening, watching. I am not sad, I don’t shed a tear unless I have stuck a broadhead in my hand. I quietly say “thank you” and get on about the business of getting that animal ready for the table as quickly as possible. I follow the blood trail, usually within three minutes of the shot, (I’ll explain why I don’t wait in another column.). I get to that animal as quickly as possible and I gut it. I don’t field dress it, I gut it. You may, if you wish, substitute eviscerate. But the actual shot and kill is anti-climactic for me. Yes, it is the successful culmination of all the rest. But it is not cause for an end zone celebration. It is a time for respect, reflection, thanking God and going to work. Yes. I have made bad shots. Yes. I have failed to find animals and some of them surely, later died and fed the scavengers of the woods. Yes, I have found animals long hours later that were still alive and required a finishing shot. My guess is, I have killed close to 500 game animals in my 62-years of hunting life and probably will kill a few more. Not all were killed with quick, clean, instantly fatal shots. But never, not once, have I jumped up and down in glee.

To date, best I can tell, I have killed 19-animals that qualify for various record books. Not one of them has ever been sent in for recording or officially scored. One of my most memorable trophies is a doe that had lived for at least nine years. I hunted her for a solid three years and for all but one minute of that time, she beat me. She made one mistake and I killed her. I was regretful the minute she hit the ground because the game was over and she should have won. If that sounds silly to you, you do not understand hunting. Hunting, in a true sense, is not paying someone to put you in a shooting house you have never seen and killing whatever walks out. Think about it. You did no hunting. You just killed. Now, if that is what you want to do, fine. I have no problem with that. It is a needed part of this business. You do realize, of course, it is a business. That is why we have televised hunting shows-to sell a product. Hunting is walking new land, exploring, reading “sign”, and making guesses and assumptions. Hunting is learning all you can about the game you hunt. Hunting is enjoying the days you don’t see a single animal you are after. Hunting is respecting the animals and the land, remembering, maybe making notes, adding to your knowledge of the woods and fields, knowing food sources and breeding patterns, trails and crossings and proper stand or blind placement. That is hunting. The rest is just killing. Nothing about hunting requires acting like a complete idiot. That is for television…so you can sell a product and make a name for yourself. True hunters find it distasteful. As technology progressed to the point any idiot could do his own taping and production and some woman with expensive implants joined him to become an outdoor “star”, outdoor programming went down the chute. Just my opinion, of course.

So hunters, respect the game you hunt. Act like your family is watching and use all the meat. If you can’t, give it to someone who can. Then, if you want to preserve the memory, visit a taxidermist. Nothing wrong with well-mounted head or whatever. Just be careful you don’t have so many done you have to build a new room, (inside joke.). And that is my diatribe for this season…until something else comes along. Enjoy the game, the hunt and the memory. Above all, be safe. ###

From: Bowriter
23-Oct-17

Bowriter's embedded Photo
Bowriter's embedded Photo
Learn to take tasteful pictures. It takes no more time and can't be used against you.

From: DaleHajas
23-Oct-17
My goodness.... I thought I wrote that piece. Nicely done sir.

23-Oct-17
Enjoyed the article. I definitely see a few things differently, but it doesn't make either of us completely right or wrong, i dont believe.

From: Salagi
23-Oct-17
Yep.

23-Oct-17
Good article Bowriter.

One thing I would do is have respect for those who do properly utilize Outfitters. In some states and countries it is a requirement for a non resident with certain animals in mind. Alaska is the main example, much of Africa another. Then there are millions of potential hunters who live in major metropolitan areas and it is not easy for them to get to the country often enough to do proper scouting prior to the hunt, they do depend on other hunters to help them. All they may get is the one week vacation to flee the city and see what country life is like, including hunting. We need them on our side. Some are even from other countries.

As you mentioned, hunting can be a business, but it also can be beneficial to our cause at the same time. I see nothing wrong with hunters helping other hunters getting land access and helping them fulfill their goals. Your box blind statement is well taken but that is how some young hunters begin, and aged or physically challenged hunters must end. Outfitting, including box blinds have their place in waterfowl and big game hunting. I do have respect for the good outfitters, and no I am not one. I have however used them to hunt Brown and " interior Grizzly bears" as well as some sheep and African game. It was a legal requirement, not a sign of laziness.

23-Oct-17
Well written, John. I hope every poster here reads your words, takes them to heart, and passes them along to others.

From: TXHunter
23-Oct-17
I agree with nearly all the sentiments.

Honestly though, it baffles me when so many hunters take such pains to distance themselves from the act killing - almost apologizing for it. I don't hunt to kill either, but killing is a part of hunting. It's what makes it hunting actually. Nature kills a million times a day, every day. I strive to do it cleanly, but I don't have angst over the act.

Also, it's a little egocentric at times with all your accomplishments worked in for no real reason.

Query: Doesn't making a big deal to others about having a bunch of record book animals you are not entering calling attention to yourself about as much as entering them? Maybe more?

From: APauls
23-Oct-17
Agree with most everything there. Except how a person expresses their excitement. I do agree that most of the TV "drama" is dumb, but that being said, everyone is wired different. Even when I am miles into the bush all by myself and a long quest ends in a successful shot on a great animal - if you could see me, you might even see me super pumped all by myself.

From: M.Pauls
23-Oct-17
We're all entitled to our opinions and sharing them, after all that's what makes discussions, discussions! I personally thought John's use of sharing that he's trophy hunted and has many qualifiers was well placed. He did mention it and had that as part of the article, but I don't think he made a "big deal" about it. The reason I found it to be a good thing to mention, is as John says, a big portion of his audience are non-hunters. The words Trophy Hunting have had this sort of negativity attached to them it seems over the last 15-20 years, and it seems that non-hunters draw a parallel to poaching with it. Not sure why, but when discussing with non-hunters this seems to be a common perception I've noticed. There's a perception of wastage. I am a trophy hunter, hands down, so are most of my hunting comrades. We also eat almost solely wild meat in my family and you bet I'll do everything in my power to use every piece of wild meat I kill. I can just picture a non-hunter reading this article, and had he not mentioned that, I could see one reading it and mumbling to themselves "well this hunter at least seems descent enough, he's not like one of those Trophy Hunters!" I guess maybe I'm partial to that because I would consider myself a trophy hunter, but I think you get my drift. I don't think it did any harm

23-Oct-17
One of the biggest voter turn offs is trespassing and the sense of entitlement by some hunters.

From: keith
23-Oct-17
John, excellent article. Would you mind if I used it in my Hunter Ed classes?

From: Pigsticker
23-Oct-17
I think that we should vigorously defend what we and quit try to play cate the different factions. Agree with not posting distasteful pics and riding around with deer on top of vehicles but other than that our message should be one of need as a biological tool, funds for wildlife conservation and positive family hobby.

23-Oct-17
I hope this does not come across wrong, as I will admit I fall woefully short every day.

Regarding hunting and how we carry ourselves, I see it no differently than how we should conduct ourselves in all aspects of life. If we are sincere and sensitive to others and how they might view us, if we strive for decency in all transactions with others, then hunting should be just another aspect of our hopefully well regarded character. My own approach is to not treat hunting/shooting any differently towards others as I would their passions/hobbies. I just assume they accept me for who I am, and expect them to. This seems to produce the results that I find acceptable.

I accept each of us must find a comfort level with this subject, this is just what so far seems to work for me.

Thanks.

From: BIG BEAR
23-Oct-17
Like APauls I agree with much of your article but not all of it.... I don't think it's right to try to tell someone else how to think and feel after killing an animal.... Have respect for the animal you have killed..... I agree...... But to harp on someone for showing excitement in the moment ?? When I killed my moose I threw my hat it the air as high as I could and yelled loud enough for anyone to hear if they were within a mile of me. Not for sponsors. Not for TV. For pure JOY !! It would have looked stupid on TV.... oh well. Face paint ?? I used to use it. Very messy and hard to get off... So guys that use a lot of it are fine with me..... Paid outfitters putting guys onto animals for money ?? Some guys don't have as many opportunities to hunt as others without using outfitters..... is it true hunting ?? I think it is.... as a team with your guide...

From: Ollie
23-Oct-17
Well written article.

From: Pigsticker
23-Oct-17
Personally I think that anti hunters should have to explain there behavior. I do take the time educate many non hunters.

From: Bowriter
23-Oct-17
Keith...or anyone, if you wish to use this in any way, feel free. If it is re-printed, just give me credit. If used in a hunter ed class, use it any way you wish. BTW- The entire article ran with five pictures and has been "somewhat" copied in various publications, including TV-Guide-so I have been told. re mentioning my own trophies, that was to purposely prevent someone from saying, "I know for a fact he is a trophy hunter." If you admit it up front, it can't come back and bite you. Secondly, it was a way of showing, for me at least, it isn't all about trophies. As for the comments about trespassing etc., I agree 100%. But that is another column. :) Thanks for the comments.

From: Bowfreak
23-Oct-17
I guess I'll be the one detractor. I am more annoyed by someone telling me what hunting "is" or should be to me than I am by outdoor television.

Give me Fred Eichler and his excitement any day of the week over a somber stick in the mud who is unable to have fun because it is against all things holy to high five or give out a war hoot.

When the argument gets even more tired and worn out that all of hunting's ills are caused by outdoor television, we can always switch the narrative to "it's Trump's fault."

From: 12yards
23-Oct-17
I agree with everything. The only thing I maybe disagree with is the reaction to shooting or finding what we shot. Some people just get excited and react differently than just being quiet and composed. The first few times I watched Fred Eichler's show, I thought, "WTH"!! But then I realized that's how excited he gets. I'm usually more like you. But I've had experiences where I've let out a whoop or praised God with tears in my eyes. I guess my point is that people react to things different. But great article.

From: XMan
23-Oct-17
We think the same 12yards, I am positively elated when I find a deer I have been tracking for hours. Its the culmination of so much time, preparation, and walking on eggshell moments that lead up the moment of finding the animal. I couldn't contain it no matter how hard I tried, its just not in my emotional control.

BTW, I use face paint but not because I like the look, I am just too damn white and stick out like a lighted beacon to anything critter.

Nice article John!

From: ohiohunter
23-Oct-17
Very well conveyed and agree w/ most. How one handles their emotions is their choice, but I do think the celebs could tone down their fabricated excitement. The "kill vs harvest", killing IMO is more associated with a senseless act with only one objective. Harvesting an animal implies more intention than just killing. For instance, OJ did not harvest Nicole he [allegedly] killed her. A deer hit by a car was killed, the people who salvaged the meat are harvesting valuable nutrients. Similar to agriculture, we don't kill a field of corn. Personally I don't see the terminology as a PC thing, I see it as a more accurate description of the entire process. There are certainly people who do just "kill" animals, I'd say they are the extreme minority here.

From: TD
23-Oct-17
I don't mind someone getting excited...... and personally notice a big difference in being alone or being with a friend as the emotions just seem to feed off each other. People are known to have been picked up off the ground and bear hugged.....Alone I'm pretty composed, but then one of my first emotions at the shot is apprehension and uncertainty followed by pure relief at recovery. When you can see em go down it sure takes some weight off and can relax and enjoy the moment. If you can't enjoy the moment, the success...... I'm at a loss as to why you do it.....

But..... there is a difference between excitement, honest emotion...... and being a dick.

I'd bet most that John was talking about are just dicks. Hunting is but one thing they happen to do.....

From: Rut Nut
23-Oct-17
Just my opinion, but you seem to be casting a lot of judgement with that article Bowriter. That's one thing I try pretty hard NOT to do. Like my momma always told me "if we were all the same, it would be a pretty boring world!"

I wonder how many folks looked at the photo above and thought to themselves- anyone that holds their bow upside down in their trophy photos must not be much of a bowhunter! ;-)

From: JacobNisley
23-Oct-17
And I think "Anyone who holds his bow right side up and jams his nocks into the dirt isn't much of a bowhunter."

From: Bowriter
23-Oct-17
Rut Nut-Of course I cast a lot of judgement, just as you did when you posted without thinking. One thing professional writers do, is make judgements. There are all kinds of judgements, none of which is partial. Unfortunately, we all are judges in a phase of partiality. Just as you were. When we judge someone else, usually, what we do is open ourselves up to being judged. I believe it is called...life. One thing I would remind everyone to do, when reading the column, is keep in mind, it is a newspaper column, not an essay or discussion or term paper. Obviously, as such, it is completely, my opinion, my view. It is not impartial, it is not 100% fair...it is what I think. It ran a year ago. I feel sure it will run again...many times. Now...one last thing. As to the excitement thing. When alone, I could care less what a hunter does. You can get naked and abuse yourself on the animal, for all I care. I was speaking of public viewing and my personal reaction. Vast difference, my friends. There are a lot of things we can do behind closed doors we can't do in a bus station. Again, thanks for all the comments. Much merit in almost all of them.

From: Pigsticker
23-Oct-17
Bowriter, for years We have been listening to the outdwiters tell the hunting community how we are supposed to address our naysayers. Now we have the TV celebs doing likewise all the while both have whored themselves out in search of $$$. We have been marketed to the point that we beemanize instead of loosing an arrow, put a rage in the cage or swacker them, or better yet I do not lay my bow but instead I lay my Matthews, Bowtech, or, Elite. The hunting community undoubtedly the most aggressively marketed to group in America. Industry reps have not helped in bridging the hunting community gap but they want to tell us how to act. RMEF and it organizations do some good but do a poor job at unifying the in fear of losing revenue. I personally are done with both groups. I find better information on bowsite and other internet venues. I think we need to boycott both groups.

Currently we have both TV celebs and writers clogging up the hunting draw system and jacking up the price of a guided hunt. Just think how many times you are in camp and there is some celeb of one type or the other. Just think about that premium drawing that every celeb puts in for every year in as many ways as possible to make a show or write a story who would not be if they were not making a dime on it. Who do you think the outfitter is going to put on that 190 inch whitetail, Me or Michael Waddell. This is the same group that said we should keep bow shots to 40 yards or less and 300 and in for rifles. This is now the same group shooting bow shots at nearly a hundred yards and gun shots at nearly a thousand. Really, I do not need celebs telling me how to represent myself and hunting. What we really need to do is to address the Bubba image that is associated with hunting. Bubba is not buying Kuiu or Sitka and hardly any are putting into out of state draws. My thinking does necessarily fall in line with the normal thought process and could be said to be out of the box but from my perspective the hunting industry is getting more than they are giving.

From: BigRed
23-Oct-17
Good read. I enjoyed it immensely. Agree with everything you mentioned. Especially the part about TV hunting shows and selling product. I have no use for them, including YouTube.

One comment I'd like to make about the non-hunters. I recently drew a "once in a lifetime" bull elk tag for my home state. Only residents can apply, and it's a one and done hunt, never to get the opportunity again. After many trips west across the state (Nebraska) to scout and secure private land to hunt, it was finally time to fulfill something I had been chasing for 20+ years.

On my drive west across I-80, like many previous trips I've made in Sept. I'm always on the lookout for those heading back east with their trophy racks strapped to their truck beds or trailers, and I wasn't disappointed. I met several... But for the first time I started to wonder, just how many people are they pissing off with their flagrant display. Are we rubbing it in their face by showing off the spoils of our hunt? I even made the decision to keep mine under wraps should this be a successful hunt.

Well, sure enough, just two days into my hunt I connected on "a bull of a lifetime". Not that I was planning on this being a trophy hunt, but I was out to hunt hard and match wits with mature herd bulls. No raghorns like I'm used to seeing on OTC hunts. Mature bulls in the height of the rut. And on top of it all, I was doing it solo. Nobody to blame but myself...

After getting my bull broken down and in coolers, my camp packed up, truck loaded to the hilt... Guess what? All I had left was the rack, and it was huge. All I could do was bite the bullet and strap it on top of my heaping loaded truck bed. Off I went, expecting the worse.

To shorten this up... To my pleasant surprise, I had several passer-bys that gave me many thumbs-up! Lots of gawkers staring as they passed. But no middle finger salutes as I was expecting. When I reached home I came to the conclusion, either the anti's are afraid to express their distain when alone and singled out, or there really isn't as many of them as we're led to believe. Or, maybe I just got lucky...

From: JTV
23-Oct-17
Very good article.... something I do is not go into a 7-11, Jewel, Strack and Van Till, Meijers, etc. covered in mud/blood and wearing camo, a good reason to wear the long shoulder length gloves and the nitrile gloves when field dressing ... a buddy had a trailer hitch carrier, and we'd tarp over any deer he hauled on it..., I dont wear nor even own any distasteful T-shits/hats (happiness is a large gut pile, busty women and whitetails, etc ).... I dont yell, whoop it up, fall on the ground kicking like a certain TV guy does/did... I dont use the TV terms on describing a shot, bloodtrails, etc.... I dont cover up killing an animal by saying "harvest" either... I killed it ... I show respect for the animals I kill, and for those around me, esp. if I'm in Camo ... ...

From: Bowriter
23-Oct-17
Big Red-antis are for sure a minority, probably no more of them than hunters. That is why the true anti-poses only a small threat. It is the non-hunter who controls the vote. That is why it so important to not sway them to the anti side. Although, they may not outwardly oppose hunting, they may be inclined to vote against it. this is especially true when the matter is not crystal clear.

From: Rut Nut
23-Oct-17
Bowriter- you were wrong on both accounts. First, I did a lot of thinking before I posted that. I read it this morning before work, re-read it again at lunchtime and then read it a third time before I posted a reply after work. And in between, I did a lot of thinking on it. But came to the same conclusion: that the tone of the article was very condescending and judgmental.

And I was not being judgemental with my question- just making a point. There is no way I can tell from that photo what type of hunter you are. You may be holding your bow that way because you like to hold your bow upside down, or maybe you have a blister on that hand or maybe you were just so excited after shooting that buck that you didn’t even realize it was upside down.

Just trying to make a point that just because some of us don’t react the same way you do after killing a deer, does not make it disrespectful or inappropriate. Just makes it..................,.....different.

From: GF
23-Oct-17
Just bear in mind... No Anti can be offended by what you do... on your own.... out there in the woods. It’s when people tape it and put it on YouTube or Facebook or TV that it gives ALL OF US a black eye. Just because it plays into the narrative that the Antis wish to promote.

I fully understand why not all hunters want to hear what John had to say here, but it’s (IMO) important for a lot of Antis - and even MORE importantly, NON-hunters - to know that the crap that you can see on TV is not what this thing is About.

Oddly enough, I’m watching a football game right now. I do not appreciate the guys who taunt their opponents, and I think the victory dances and posturing - after EVERY time somebody actually succeeds in doing exactly what he gets paid (millions) to do....

Put it this way; I coach kids’ hockey. Small-time stuff, to be sure. Everybody plays. Unless you show disrespect towards your teammates or your opponent. THAT will earn you a sit on the bench, because that is not how we roll....

From: Bowriter
24-Oct-17
Bowriter- you were wrong on both accounts. First, I did a lot of thinking before I posted that. I read it this morning before work, re-read it again at lunchtime and then read it a third time before I posted a reply after work. And in between, I did a lot of thinking on it. But came to the same conclusion: that the tone of the article was very condescending and judgmental. And I was not being judgemental with my question- just making a point. There is no way I can tell from that photo what type of hunter you are. You may be holding your bow that way because you like to hold your bow upside down, or maybe you have a blister on that hand or maybe you were just so excited after shooting that buck that you didn’t even realize it was upside down.

Just trying to make a point that just because some of us don’t react the same way you do after killing a deer, does not make it disrespectful or inappropriate. Just makes it..................,.....different.

Okay, first, you assumed that is me. It is not. Second, you said you would not hold you bow upside down. It is not upside down if you want to keep your arrows out of the dirt. Of course you made some judgements, we all do. Unless you know exactly a person is thinking or trying to convey, you make a judgement. Even then, you judge it according to your viewpoint. If you don't, you are probably dead. For example, at this very second, I am making a judgement about you. Reading and re-reading does not affect judgement, only wording.

Dead on GF.

From: Rut Nut
24-Oct-17
Yeah, doesn't surprise me. Should have realized you'll never get my point....................................or just refuse to acknowledge it. I won't waste any more of my time on this.

From: 12yards
24-Oct-17
Will agree that a lot of the post shot blabber and action on video is totally fabricated and done for effect. It is really bad sometimes. Sometimes I wonder if they are high fiving and fist pumping more because they got the footage than the deer.

From: drycreek
24-Oct-17
12yards, I think you're on to something ! It is ALL about the footage and the antler score. Why else would they refuse to track an obviously well hit deer, oblivious of coyotes eating the meat overnight, and then call a 3.5 year old buck that scores in the 120s a mature buck that breaks 140 ? I have seen those scenarios enough that it's sickening. Then, there's the buck running off hit "a little back " with 20" or more of shaft hanging out right in the middle of his gut. I know all of you have seen that more than a few times.

From: midwest
24-Oct-17
More than a better image, we need more new hunters. If you really want to make things better, take a kid hunting and be a mentor.

From: Sage Buffalo
24-Oct-17
It's a well written article and enjoyed reading it. I don't agree with some of it but that doesn't mean it's not well written.

I think "most" people don't disdain hunters. I actually don't think they care one way or the other. Matter a fact if you Google for surveys you will see hunting support for hunting well above 75%.

People who disdain hunters are one of two people:

1. Petaphiles: These people will for the rest of time hate what we do. No rational or other explanation will warm them up. They just have an entirely different belief system.

2. BHE: Bad Hunter Encounter: These people have had a bad run-in with a hunter. Usually the hunters fault (like my wife's family who had people chase a wounded deer across their front lawn with guns in hand), trespassing, etc.

I have worked, lived and travelled in the most liberal states in America and in all my years have only had a few bad encounters. Matter a fact I would say the majority of people are ok with many types of hunting. Unfortunately, it's the 10% of people who don't like hunting who are loud and obnoxious.

I think those that don't like the fist pumping and celebrating after a kill are just different than those who do - NEITHER are right or wrong. They are just different types of people.

Like I said above - I enjoyed reading this article and am not arguing that your opinion isn't correct. I just think sometimes as hunters we are over-stating the disdain for hunting.

From: Timbrhuntr
24-Oct-17
So is it a poor view of hunters or a poor image of hunters . I wasn't sure if it's hunters you personally have a poor view of or that give hunters a poor image.

From: GF
24-Oct-17
Lemme just add this...

When I took Hunter Ed, the OldTimers who taught the class drummed in a lesson that I have retained for the past 40 years...

Whenever you are out in the world looking like you are a hunter, EVERY THING YOU DO will be the basis for someone’s view of what hunters and hunting are all about.

When I’m in the field, I assume that I represent YOU. Whoever you may be. And it is my job to present you to the world in the same light in which I hope that you will represent me.

And that is not because I am some politically correct “snowflake” or whateverthehell insult of the week; that lesson was taught to me by guys who were probably the Old Gunnies in WWII...

Interesting how respect for your fellow man has become considered a sign of weakness these days....

From: ohiohunter
24-Oct-17
12yards.. My impression is exactly that, they don't care if they film a hamblaster as long as its on film and their dogs can find it before its devoured by nature. I have to wonder though someone mentioned the cost of getting a show aired, I assume that cost is covered by sponsors? And what could a show expect in return??.. basically what I'm getting at is what is the nitty gritty on aired shows. Cost to produce and air, revenue from the airing whether it be endorsements or ratings etc.... It would be nice to know something about whats going on behind the curtain.

From: Crusader dad
24-Oct-17
I guess I'm that guy then. I paint my face when it's too warm to wear my baklava. I don't harvest animals, I kill them. When I kill an animal I sometimes let out an audible "YEEEAAH!" If I make a great shot I tell my friends or son "I smoked him/her!" I purposely put my deer on top of my vehicle for others to see.

I'd rather see someone excited about their hobby and accomplishment visually and vocally than see some ho-hum reaction. Don't be afraid to show the world your passion and if someone doesn't like it that's just too bad.

From: JTV
24-Oct-17
^^^ and that attitude right there will turn away many non-hunters ... it is the non-hunters we want to turn to our side ....smh ..

From: Pigsticker
24-Oct-17
We are so gutless, so worried about how we represent ourselves. What other group in history was this concerned about there image. Hollywood, musicians, women, and Veblen the LGBT community is proud of their imperfections.

24-Oct-17
I think its all fine as long as its genuine. That especially goes for someone who has less experience than many here. When it’s for show, it’s obvious, and its ridiculous as well as offensive.

Some have mentioned those who portray themselves as being particularly excitable. I buy it the first time, maybe even the second and third time, but time and time again, it seems too rehearsed and predictable. That’s when it becomes really offensive. Especially true when it was a shitty shot or an immature animal.

I’ve killed more than most. For me, its always a very quiet, somber moment to walk up on something I’ve killed.

From: GF
24-Oct-17
"I think its all fine as long as its genuine. That especially goes for someone who has less experience than many here. When it’s for show, it’s obvious, and its ridiculous as well as offensive."

I guess there are some things that are wonderful and exciting... and that just aren't meant to be done under the Public Eye.....

From: Bowriter
25-Oct-17
Blacktail Bob- I agree 100%. If you are not excited after your first or 15th kill, something is wrong. That is not what I was commenting on. Also, what you do when alone in the woods, is your business. It is what you do in public that matters. In today's time of education, I cannot fathom putting a deer on top a car and marinading it manure just so your friends or anyone, can see it. Hard to believe, but at one time, there was a law, I believe in WI, that said your deer had to be visible with tag showing, while transporting.

From: Crusader dad
25-Oct-17
Even though we have online registration now, where I hunt most still bring their deer to the gas station to celebrate with others. We use their computer to register it and they still put your pic up on the board. I will never care what someone thinks about my hobbies. I am proud to be a hunter and seriously doubt that someone seeing my kill riding home on top of my car will change their opinion of hunting. I've never gotten a thumbs down gesture. Only thumbs up. I'm smh at the fact that some make it seem like they think we need to be pc about it or even hide what we do. Antis aren't changing their mind anyway and non hunters see a happy hunter and tend to be happy for them.

Fwiw we don't know who's faking emotions on the shows we watch. We can only assume and we all know what happens when we assume things. Also, I seriously doubt antis and nonhunters are watching these shows so it just becomes hunters judging hunters which is not helping our cause at all.

25-Oct-17
I think I can tell whose faking and who's genuine. Same as whats fake and whats real, I can tell.

From: Wapitidung
25-Oct-17
This is a interesting thread that the subject of are things I thought about quite a bit in the past. I'll just put it this way, I kill animals, I don't harvest them.

Also, I watched a Bighorn Sheep rifle hunting video on youtube once. The guy had to shoot the Ram at least 5 times before he killed it. What's worse is then the fool post the video to youtube.

That's all I got to say. I've hunted since I was old enough to get a license.

Wapitidung

From: Rut Nut
25-Oct-17
After reading all this, I'm wondering what y'all think of the Wards Outfitters Video?!

25-Oct-17
Yup....

From: Rut Nut
25-Oct-17
Anybody?

From: ohiohunter
25-Oct-17
Gasp!

25-Oct-17
Chirp....chirp....

From: Bou'bound
26-Oct-17
I did not invest the 37 minutes of my life to watch it, but in about 1:30 of viewing throughout here and there it seemed fine.

did I miss something in the 35:30 I blew through?

From: Crusader dad
26-Oct-17
I only watched the first kill. I felt bad for the buck after the first shot and was happy to see him get another arrow in him quickly. The hunter was poised but looked clearly distressed over the first shot. It was a happy ending. Not enough to give an anti ammo or turn a non hunter against us.

From: Bullhound
26-Oct-17
good article IMO but it is clearly your opinion. I happen to agree with many of your opinions, but you state those opinions as if they are factual. I'd say if this is written as an editorial for an "opinion" page in newspapers or magazines, it hits that mark. If this was to be utilized in any "teaching or educational format" it should be edited to some degree, so as to identify some of those things that are only opinion. Good read.

From: Rut Nut
26-Oct-17
Bou- As I said before, I try very hard not to judge others- that is why I left the Wards Outfitter thread alone. But, what I found very interesting was that many of the things Bowriter talked about with righteous indignation in his article and that others agreed with HERE in this thread the last few days, I saw in that video. Yet Bowriter and others who had a similar view are now curiously silent! ;-)

From: ohiohunter
26-Oct-17
You can get the jist of it by skimming through it... basically terrible shots on 2.. and good shots on 2 more (I think).. shoots a bobcat... noisy bow. I'd like to know the distance, they may mention it, but like I said.. skim it. IMO too many congratulatory comments for such a film... and a little contradictory IMO as well. Likewise I'll look the other way... no need to stir up the holier than thous, they're still breathing heavy over the rmef Question.

26-Oct-17
Where does "whacked" fall in relation to "smoked" when it comes to killing a deer? Just tryin to get my stuff together on this so i know, cuz its been established that "smoked" is unacceptable. Unless woodchips are involved, i would hope.

From: BigRed
26-Oct-17
Whacked, smoked, nailed, thumped, drilled. I can't keep up.

Mine are simply shot... Metaphor's are not my thing. Call me boring.

From: Timbrhuntr
26-Oct-17
I think you can only justify saying whacked as in I whacked that deer in the a$$ and he liked it so much I did it again and again! ;)

From: Bake
26-Oct-17
I'll admit, I didn't read the whole article. I didn't read all the comments on this thread.

I quit the article when it said something like "you don't get hunting." or "hunting is about. . . . "

There should always be qualifiers in there before those statements. Like "you don't get what hunting means to me." or "For me, hunting is about. . . "

Because YOU don't get to tell ME what MY hunting is about. Everyone can leave me the hell alone and mind their own business.

I got a bunch more I could say. But why bother?

The hypocrisy always gets me. I'd bet money that a lot of the "you're not doing it right" crowd, are big believers in small government. They don't want the government or anyone telling THEM what to do, but it's okay for them to tell others what to do. It's a state of mind I just can't understand.

Oh, they'll always have a justification. Don't all do-gooders? But it always rings hollow with me. . . .

From: Timbrhuntr
26-Oct-17
Just read my post and it sounds terrible unless maybe u watched that whole video i guess .

26-Oct-17
Timbr, lol...

Bake---AMEN bro. Very well said

From: Rut Nut
27-Oct-17
I agree Bake!

From: Dave
27-Oct-17
A-frickin-men! My disdain for "celebrity" hunters peaked several years ago when I happened to share an elk camp with two different TV personalities. Their behavior was disgusting, childish, and a poor representation of the sport. They showed a general lack of respect for the other hunters in camp and were into only themselves and their TV shows. The egos were unbelievable. They didn't respect the game they were hunting nor did they respect the other individuals pursuing game at the same time. I can't stand the majority of outdoor TV programming and cringe when I think of anti-hunters or even those with an open mind watching some of those clowns on TV who think they're god's gift to the world of hunting. Any idiot can have a TV show. All one has to do is buy the airtime and get some sponsors to cover the costs. They then use their "celebrity" status(and I use that term lightly) to convince outfitters to give them free or discounted hunts that the rest of us ultimately pay for so they can televise their lack of hunting prowess and generally despicable behavior. It's a sad commentary that there are obviously some on here who don't realize this is bad for the sport and are likely the ones who watch those shows and keep them afloat. Yeah, child molesters are "different" too but that doesn't make it right.

From: Pigsticker
27-Oct-17
Bake X2, I am a small government guy by the way but I work for the big government.

27-Oct-17
If we voted for the 3 wisest people here, Bake would make my list.

From: tradmt
27-Oct-17
Yup, gotta go with Bake on this one.

From: ELKMAN
30-Oct-17
Very good stuff. It's ironic though that an important subject/thread like this get's only 71 hits, but you can bet if it was some stupid broad head bashing thread, based on pure speculation and garbage it would go straight to 200. It really shows how far our heritage and tradition has fallen... :-(

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