Ca F&W and HSUS, Final Story
General Topic
I posted the topic after someone I know was arrested by F&W and charged with 3 felonies and 3 misdemeanors. I’ll list what had happened. He had his wallet stolen from his truck at a work site. He went in to F&W to get duplicate license and tags. This raised red flags and so wardens put a GPS on wish truck. He was apparently followed by a number of wardens for weeks. He was headed up hunting when he spotted a bear. He parked the truck and headed after the bear. He got the bear and was dragging it to the truck when wardens started appearing. 5 total. He forgot his wallet in the truck that was within 20 yds. They took his phone and started going through pictures and now calling him poacher instead of his name. Pictures of animals on his phone that most of us have that someone sends us were now being said to him they were animals he poached. He was arrested , taken to jail and booked. Guns, bows, arrows, all of the families, cell phones, computers and 6 year olds iPad were confiscated as well as his parents computer. He got an Attorney that cost a $12,000. Retainer. They have not yet given it all back
Well today it ended. It went from three felonies( poaching, poaching without tags or license and possession of illegally taken animal) plus the misdemeanors whatever they were to two misdemeanors, (not having his license with him and not tagging an animal IMMEDIATELY after take) a $1700. Fine and no hunting for a year or accompanying anyone. Before his arrest they claimed they had already spent 300 hours on him. And that’s the story. Most everyone said there was more to this story and I was starting to believe it. I have to go back to what a fellow bow hunter and attorney said to me. He said he takes on these cases for free at times because F&W has a strange interpretation of the law at times. My friend is glad it’s finally over. I go back to the original that CalTip is funded by HSUS and trains people in trying to catch and prosecute hunters and fisherman. There’s some very good wardens that are hunters but the numbers are getting fewer. I got an education on this after going on my desert Bighorn sheep hunt this year.
There are a few good ones. But, in my experience, there are a lot of Barney Fife types. That's in any state. They aren't your friends and, most seem to simply be looking for an opportunity to treat you like a criminal. I'm convinced I could go to Disney and find a CO with an attitude.
I guess in reality I have had more simply be good people as I've had a dozen or so check me and all were extremely professional and friendly. But, some of those idiots really defined Barney Fife.
What we as hunters have to understand is the "DNR" or "F&W" is NOT the agencies of long ago. They are not filled with outdoorsman or Forest service guys...they are college educated wannabe cops. There are states that they look at you and think..."you are guilty of something, I just have to find it"....they are NOT your friend. Other states they are OK.
The strange correlation is the more liberal the state is....the more unfair the "fish cops" are.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend- way too severe.
We have to be careful not to use a wide brush. There are good GW's out there. Put yourself in their shoes....they catch what...maybe one in 20 poachers....that has to be frustrating.
This wide brush thing is endemic in our society now. Everyone that has ever kissed a gal on the dance floor isn't #me too Harvey Weinstein.
So....tell me once again why anybody lives in that *%%#!?<| state, because I don't get it !
At least he had money to pay an attorney. There are thousands less fortunate that get tossed in jail every year that are innocent, or for small infractions that don't deserve jail, like your buddy was facing. Americans love throwing people in jail and taking away their freedoms. Land of the free unless someone wants you in jail bad enough. Its what we do.
Here in MI in my county we are lucky to have some good ones. I cross paths with them all the time They are straight shooters and treat people with respect. Don't break the law though cuz you will get no breaks and shouldn't. They have run some folks I know through the ringer but they asked for it. I am amazed at how fast this world is going to shit. Allowing HSUS to fund a poaching tip line. WTF
Did your friend have any previous game violations/citations or a criminal record?
United States vs. Jones, Supreme Court ruling 2017 requires now that a warrant must be obtained to attach a GPS device to someone's vehicle as it is an invasion of privacy. So many things going on that are legit, that it is a waste of time and resources on cases just like you described. Here in Nebraska we are lucky that we have a lot of good game wardens that sill hunt and fish themselves.
I'm not defending anyone but I still say there's more to this story. Red flags.... duplicate license and tags, GPS tracker, 300 hours of investigation, coincidentally catching him without license and tagging... that's what you've told us you've heard about this case from your buddy. Pleas are often taken for lesser crimes... that's the way the system works. There's at least two sides to every story and you may never know what the wardens side is... just sayin'. Ed F
I remember watching one of those game warden shows year's ago on Nat geo were a California game warden cut the feet of a roadkill bear tied them to his boots and walked around the woods " to catch poachers ". It was on public ground and even if a "poachers" hounds would've followed the tracks what was his end game? It was hunter harassment plain and simple. Makes you wonder if that's what they're willing to put on TV what do they do when nobody is watching.
BOWUNTR x2 I think Ed might be on to something here. I'm not disputing what DL wrote, but I am saying that I believe there is way more to this story. All of the families cell phones, computers and ipads - and the parent's computer....? GPS...? Most, if not all, of these items need a warrant, and a warrant would not have been issued without probably cause. I have no idea about the details of this story, but I'm betting there are more.
Is probable cause the same in Kaliforny as it is in Texas, especially where guns and/or hunting is involved ? I think not ! They have no compunction disregarding federal dope laws or immigration laws but boy, they hell on them redneck hunters ain't they.
Sticksender no he hasn’t any previous citations. Him and three friends were questioned twice for hunting beavers at night with shotguns and flashlights which is legal here. The second time they were loading their boat at a ramp when three wardens came out of the bushes with guns drawn yelling get on the ground. They were accusing them of various things but after questioning all of them separately they left. No citation. I fully understand getting cited for no license and tag being on him even though it was 20 yds away in the truck. He was wrong. To try and blow this up to more than it was is shameful. If they had definitive proof of more then fine but they didn’t. Going from three felonies Which means never owning a firearm again. A year in jail 10 years of no hunting anywhere in the US Three misdemeanors and thousands in reparations To two misdemeanors, $1700 and a year with no hunting? Come on. If this is how any of you wardens work then shame on you. Yes he’s very fortunate that he was able to raise the money for an attorney. Just weeks ago they( f&w) came in with a different offer reducing the charges. Why? Because they knew when the attorney got involved they didn’t have crap. Yes they are supposed to go before a judge to get a warrant to install the GPS but what did they tell the judge? How do all of you feel if you knew your F&W was partnering up with HSUS on anything? We already know our Commission has anti hunting ties. I will still say there are some great wardens here that hunt but there’s a new generation of Some that are hot dogs and think they are the saviors of wildlife.
Yes there are two sides to every story but when you go to court there is only one side, the legal side. I’ve heard this statement before and not in wildlife cases but criminal cases. “Just throw as much crap against the wall and let’s see what sticks”? Thou shall not bare false witness”. Anyone ever heard that before. If you have evidence use it, if you don’t have definitive proof don’t use it. He was told by them that when he went in for duplicate license and tags it raises a red flag for them to follow up.
wow this is unbelievable.... best of luck to him and his family as they try to get their lives back in order.
Interesting, rough time for your buddy. I can't imagine there isn't more to the story, they wouldn't have 5 wardens following folks around on just a whim, that sounds a little extreme.
People have their opinions. However, after standing in a courtroom fighting an over zealous warden in his trumped up charges, I can tell you there isn’t always more to the story. They too tried to plead to a lesser offense thirty minutes before trial. I told him, the PA, and they other two wardens there with him to get the bleep bleep away from me. I won. Justice was served. But, I’m still out of attorney fees and two years of worrying about it.
I always hear the comment "there's two sides to every story." I have rarely found that to be the case. There's generally three sides to these stories: Theirs, His, and the truth.
I agree there's more to the story than we see here.
Likely a LOT more.
I also SERIOUSLY question the idea that HSUS funds the Cal-Tip program.
For all of CA's faults, and there are enough to fill a major land fill, they have pretty good rules about conflicts of interest and a lot more.
Just as I suspected.
All HSUS does re. Cal-Tip is provide a way to report poaching, then pay a reward to those who successfully report poaching.
That's a far cry from claiming HSUS FUNDS Cal-Tip!
Western Outdoor news
w.wonews.com). PLACERVILLE, Calif. — In a plot as insidious as anything you’ve ever seen, the California Department of Fish and Game (DFG) has gone into partnership with the largest anti-hunting group in the nation, the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS).
The DFG has been infiltrated by HSUS, which is dedicated to outlawing hunting of all types, and is even now focusing on outlawing the raising and hunting of game birds, using dogs for hunting, and even having farm animals and household pets. They are now helping to fund the DFG, are being trained at the DFG warden training school, and are even teaching classes to DFG wardens. In began simply enough with a $5,000 donation to the DFG Game Wardens to help with feeding their canine program about two years ago. That in itself was enough to raise the ire of California sportsmen and women and outdoor groups. But that was also enough for HSUS to buy their way into the DFG’s graces, and head law enforcement officer of the DFG, Nancy Foley, has now gone far beyond that in her association with HSUS. HSUS “Law Enforcement Officers” are now being trained in the California DFG Training Center in Paradise, Calif., and working under the auspices and authority of the California DFG. They are now, believe it or not, actually instructors training line officer DFG wardens! If that’s not enough, Jennifer Fearing, the California senior state director of HSUS, was elected to the CalTIP Foundation Board of Directors at their last meeting on Oct. 6, 2011. The HSUS already has a Secret Witness Program for poaching with a standard reward of $2,500. Is the DFG pleased? Apparently so: “This is the kind of support that we have needed for 30 years. Please be happy for the Wildlife Resource and the CalTIP Foundation…I am,” said Charlie Moss, chair of the CalTIP Foundation. Imagine the “Got Meat” commercials hiring a vegan for their spokesman; or the fur industry asking for the endorsement of PETA. That’s exactly the same thing as DFG accepting the nation’s largest anti-hunting organization, HSUS, as a partner. What is HSUS, exactly? First and foremost, they are not an animal “welfare” group, which is concerned about the health and well-being of animals. They are an extreme animal “rights” group, which believes that animals have equal rights to human beings. HSUS spends millions of dollars annually to economically cripple meat and dairy producers, eliminate the use of animals in biomedical research labs, phase out pet breeding, and eliminate zoos and circus animal acts. They are against anyone having pets, even fish in aquariums. They demonize hunters as crazed lunatics, and are against any hunting in any form, despite its acceptance by the vast majority of people in the United States, as long as it’s done legally and with a sound scientific and biological base. According to HSUS president Wayne Pacelle, “We will see the end of wild animals in circus acts, and we’re phasing out animals used in research. If we could shut down all sport hunting in a moment, we would.” Pacelle carefully uses the word “sport” in all his diatribes, intending to convince people that hunters are only out for “sport,” and that it has nothing to do with enjoyment, to help curb animal populations, and for the ultimate goal of putting meat on the table. According to ACTIVISTCASH.com, the budget for HSUS in 2008 was $97 million. Of that, $27.5 million was spent on fundraising, $28.0 million on campaigns, litigation and investigation, and $38 million on salaries. The remainder of their budget that year, about $5 million, was spent on travel. Zero dollars were spent on anything pertaining to the health and welfare of animals. In fact, their budget would be enough to fund every single animal shelter in the United States, and yet they don’t own or operate a single one! This is the organization that the DFG has teamed up with, and Foley thinks it’s just fine. In her own words, Foley said, “We are again very grateful to the Humane Society of the United States for their support of the wardens’ efforts to combat the increase in poaching. We look forward to continued collaboration on this issue.” And now, HSUS has actual law enforcement officers here in California, trained at the DFG Training Center at Butte College in Paradise, and some of those officers are actual instructors, teaching DFG wardens! How can someone who is hired by an animal-rights group, and believes animals have the same rights as humans, be teaching a Fish and Game enforcement officer? According to one attendee in one of the classes, the instructor showed a photo of hounds chasing a wild boar and said it was “animal cruelty”—until some in the class reminded the instructor that it was legal. What the HSUS has done here is buy the DFG and its support for a few thousand dollars. The DFG recently issued a news release that was headed, “Department of Fish and Game and the Humane Society offer Reward for Mountain Lion Poachers.” That in itself is very troubling, that the DFG is lending its name and credibility to an animal-rights, anti-hunting group. What’s worse is that HSUS is given a form of credibility by that, when they are not at all a credible organization, at least not in the eyes of sportsmen and women. Sportsmen should be afraid that there are actually HSUS law enforcement officers now in California, acting as “special investigators” under penal code section 830, and apparently under the auspices of the DFG. The DFG is a state agency responsible for the fish and wildlife of California and is funded in great part by the sale of fishing and hunting licenses to sportsmen and women in California. They, and all Californians who believe that fish and wildlife should be managed by sound scientific and biological principles, should be infuriated that such an element as HSUS, which does not believe in such principles, should be associated with a state agency such as the DFG. The partnership should end, and it should end now.
Kyle Is Western Outdoor News wrong? This is where I read about it
DL, thx for posting that article. ....
I wouldn't expect any GW's that frequent this site to post any negatives about their colleagues.....but that article nailed it....the Ca G&F is not what it used to be 30 years ago.
Back in the early 90s a friend shot a buck up east of here. He was walking down a logging roadwhen awarden pulled up. He told the warden he was headed down to hero’s buck he shot. The warden said hop in. So he drove him to where his buck was. Helped him load it in his truck and drove him up to my friends truck and transferred it over. Talked a little more shook hands and said goodbye.
Tennessee has some good wardens and bad ones. Unfortunately, the bad ones can do a lot of damage to good citizens, because they carry the authority of the law on their shoulders.
I know two men who've never poached, that were charged with baiting and the other with conspiring to protect a poacher. In both cases the truth came out. The baiting case ended with my life-long buddy doing recon and nailing the actual perp, and presenting the evidence in court. Those wardens sure looked like fools.
It still causes a lot of headache for the legal citizen though.
I would serve an honest warden, and have his back in the field. No question.
The ones that get up every morning under the pretense of catching people at their worst...I got no care for.
We aren't all criminals.
All the Conservation Officers I have talked to here in West and Central Michigan have been great people! HSUS is nothing but trouble!
I watch the Warden show from Montana. The ones I’ve seen appear to great examples of how to treat people. Even saw where one where the warden helped a hunter guy their animal out. They seem to go by the motto of treat people like you want to be treated. They write citations, confiscate animals and I’ve watched the offenders shake the wardens hand when they leave. Then there’s the California version. Some of them need to lay off the coffe. My father in law used to work for one their dads years back.
^^^^^This^^^^^^. No problems with them doing their job. I may not like it due to a technicality. But, I can deal with it as I'm a big boy. However, some go beyond that and everyone on this board knows it.
Most wardens can be gauged on your first check with them. The ones that are wannabe cops with have a chip on their shoulder and something to prove. The good ones will be courteous and treat you like a human.
My oldest son wanted to go into LE. He would go on ride alongside with a friend of ours all the time. I let him know that he was not going to follow that line of work because he would be one of those that would push his authority. I based that in how he treated his younger siblings.
It's good you have that judgement.
