North America grandslam 29
General Topic
I know a lot of hunters going to Greenland to get their musk ox , would this qualify for the grandslam
Yes it would qualify for the Superslam. Grand Slam is the term for the sheep historically.
The muskox all count for the super slam. Only caribou taken north of Nuuk count as CCBG Caribou. All caribou south of Nuuk are considered reindeer by GSCO.
P&Y counts ALL Greenland animals as CCBG Caribou.
iirc GSCO is the ones who copyrighted trademarked any use of the word ‘slam’ in hunting, even sued other conservation groups over it.
There are some differences in boundaries/herds for species to qualify for the ‘slam’ between P&Y and gsco. Bison comes to mind where gsco (and B&C for that matter) accepts a number of areas that P&Y doesn’t recognize as fair chase. But then again P&Y doesn’t recognize a ‘slam’ anyway....
these conservation organizations sue each other?
The suit was over the use of a trademarked term. Call it what you want. The "grand slam" and "super slam" are GSCO terms. If you want one of those, it comes from GSCO.
I'm honestly not sure if I care about their "approval" of my 29 critters. I started working toward my goal when I first got my hands on the book "One man. One rifle. One land" by J.Y. Jones. If you've never read it, you should pick up a copy. It's more like a textbook than a casual read. It's unbelievably comprehensive and thorough.
I lack the CCBG caribou, Brown Bear, and stone sheep.
I'm hoping to venture to Greenland for my remaining caribou (and a 3rd muskox!) go back to "the Pen" for another try at Brown Bear, and find some kind of bargain/cancellation type hunt for my stone/fannin ram.
I'll tell you one thing, when you take on a challenge like the NA29, you sure meet a ton of nice people. I've had the pleasure to hunt with several "super slammers" and even call afew my friends.
Good luck on your respective quests fellas! Hopefully I'll bump into you somewhere crazy and we can share stories over a cold one!
From: Halibutman
24-Apr-18
Only caribou taken north of Nuuk count as CCBG Caribou. All caribou south of Nuuk are considered reindeer by GSCO.
NOT TRYING TO BE A SMART@$$ HERE, BUT I THOUGHT THEY WERE called "Caribou" IN North America and "Reindeer" in Europe/Scandinavia?
Never understood why Pope & Young at least doesn't recognize those who have completed the NA29. Unless I have missed it, they don't even mention them. Makes no sense to me.
I've always thought the same Tom. They could charge a little to record it, get the club a little more publicity. Killing all 29 with archery equipment is an amazing accomplishment and members that accomplish this feat should be recognized.
Greenland has historic ties to North America (Inuit in the North) and Scandinavia (Denmark/Norway in the south). May explain why the critters are (called) caribou up north versus reindeer down south.
Oh, ok- that makes sense Kurt- thanks!
It has to do with introductions that took place in southern Greenland. I did a thread about the different organizations and classifications here on Bowsite.
Reason really is irrelevant. If you want a Super Slam, it comes from GSCO. If you want to add some kind of extra "restriction" to your pursuit like "all P&Y" or "all B&C" go for it.
G$CO saw the opportunity to monetize the accomplishment that Chuck Adams was the first to achieve (Though he has refused to register it with gsco). Many others, including P&Y could have copy righted/ trademarked the terms, its a free market. Heck, Chuck even wrote a book called Super Slam before it became an "award".
You can do a search pretty easy and see that G$CO sued a number of organizations like Wildsheep Foundation, FNAWS etc. because they would use 'grand slam' which G$CO "copyrighted" around 2006. It ended up costing these groups millions and millions in legal fees, with some settlements into 2010. Pretty ridicoulus with how common those terms were, but that's the money game, and why I can't ever support them.
It's a personal thing for sure, but I would only consider, out of tradition, a NA29 that was in the boundaries and fair chase by P&Y standards.
I think that P&Y is really missing the boat by not recognizing those who have taken the NA29 species recognized by the club (and not necessarily satisfying the entry minimums) and which were taken under P&Y fair chase standards. Makes no sense to me that the club doesn't even mention them. For example, they might name the recognition after Chuck Adams (assuming that he would approve). This could be done without infringing the trademark rights held by GSCO and be a great way to recognize these outstanding bowhunters. How can the premier bowhunting organization be completely silient on the issue and relegate recognition to a non-bowhunting specific organization? Again - makes no sense to me.
I think they missed the bus. Now there is an official organization that took the effort to archive and create a platform of recognition. Not everyone is into entering clubs and trophy's. So if it is not your thing, great.
Why does anyone fortunate enough to have hunted and harvested all 29 NA species need to have their egos massaged with special recognition? P&Y is more about honoring the animal and providing records of where outstanding animals were killed, not stroking the ego of the individual hunter. Personally, I would prefer that P&Y not even list the name of the hunter.
That's your personal opinion Ollie. I also think it's a weird opinion to assume everything is ego driven. Tell me after listening to the Frank Noska interviews, and watching interviews on him on the Tom Miranda videos that Frank needs his ego massaged? Not a chance. He's not the only one. Some of, if not most of these successful people are very humble down to earth hunters that could care less if they get a stroke. I think any record books would be very uninteresting without listing the hunter and where the hunter is from. It takes two to make it happen. Those record-worthy animals didn't die all by themselves. It is an achievement by those who undertake it. I see no issue with names attached.
Either way, Greenland is a bucket list adventure for sure.
I too think that the record keeping is just an interesting, fun part of modern day hunting, along with the quest for the NA29 or Superslam. It's just a neat goal to shoot for, most hunts are pretty simple, quick and boring if a "meat", non record book animal is your goal. Going for a Pope and Young critter simply keeps me out if the field longer so I often make it part of my hunts. A Poper muskox in Greenland sounds like a great adventure!
Greenland is a great adventure. Write the check. You won’t regret it. As a bonus, you’ll either get to see Denmark or Iceland while traveling to/from Greenland. CBG caribou can also be hunted with the Muskox making it a two species destination.
I'm with Ollie. For me it would be a personal goal and wouldn't need or want the recognition. But I suppose this is hijacking the thread.
"these conservation organizations sue each other? "
No.
Just GSCO does that, and that was over a term they did not create and which had been widely used across the world for decades before they decided it belonged to them.
In my experience, goals a great motivation. If your goals don't include the pursuit of multiple species, that's totally fine. If they do, that's fine too.
If you want a super slam, you're going through GSCO, because that's their deal. And yes, that's focused on the hunter, not the animals. After all, the animals didn't travel the continent, endure the elements, surrender the treasure, sacrifice the time, or send the projectiles. The hunter did.
Everyone just gets so riled up these days. If you don't like the super slam concept, or GSCO, that's fine. Don't participate. If you do, that's fine too.
I'm still not sure how I feel exactly about registering any animal I've taken. I've never done it. I've killed several that will make various "books". For me, it's an unusual exercise to pay someone to write that down.
If/when I get number 29, I'll probably register my super slam. It's been a life long quest/goal. It's difficult to see the finish line getting so close!!!!
That's really cool Matt. I'd love to see a recap of your animals when you do, heck I'd love to see it already who cares if you don't have them all yet. That's awesome, good luck with the last bit.
If I'd been more goal oriented, I wouldn't have gone off course so often. I've hunted most of the species more than once.
I love hunting. It makes me happy to trek to some place I've never been and tear it apart looking for something. If I ever get then all APauls, I'll send you a comprehensive recap. Most of them have fallen to .30 caliber hunks of lead, if that matters to you.
I think P & Y is a scientific conservation org that is recording and honoring animals not honoring hunters. Hope that helps.
