Why Don't Hunters Get involved????
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Scar Finga 07-Jun-18
Treeline 07-Jun-18
EF Hutton 07-Jun-18
BIG BEAR 07-Jun-18
Jaquomo 07-Jun-18
HDE 07-Jun-18
HDE 07-Jun-18
Beendare 07-Jun-18
DConcrete 07-Jun-18
EF Hutton 07-Jun-18
gobbler 07-Jun-18
drycreek 07-Jun-18
'Ike' (Phone) 07-Jun-18
Jaquomo 07-Jun-18
DConcrete 08-Jun-18
thedude 08-Jun-18
Mike-TN 08-Jun-18
elkstabber 08-Jun-18
BIG BEAR 08-Jun-18
Deertick 08-Jun-18
EF Hutton 08-Jun-18
HDE 08-Jun-18
Matt Palmquist 08-Jun-18
LINK 08-Jun-18
EF Hutton 08-Jun-18
EF Hutton 08-Jun-18
LINK 08-Jun-18
Vonfoust 08-Jun-18
LKH 08-Jun-18
LINK 08-Jun-18
elk yinzer 08-Jun-18
EF Hutton 08-Jun-18
elk yinzer 08-Jun-18
South Farm 08-Jun-18
elkstabber 08-Jun-18
Witherstick 08-Jun-18
jjs 08-Jun-18
South Farm 08-Jun-18
drycreek 08-Jun-18
nmwapiti 08-Jun-18
gobbler 08-Jun-18
Bowriter 09-Jun-18
Owl 09-Jun-18
EF Hutton 09-Jun-18
midwest 09-Jun-18
Tonybear61 09-Jun-18
qdm 09-Jun-18
wilhille 09-Jun-18
wilhille 09-Jun-18
LBshooter 09-Jun-18
EF Hutton 09-Jun-18
BIG BEAR 09-Jun-18
LBshooter 09-Jun-18
BIG BEAR 09-Jun-18
Thornton 09-Jun-18
LBshooter 09-Jun-18
EF Hutton 10-Jun-18
jjs 10-Jun-18
Missouribreaks 10-Jun-18
tonyo6302 10-Jun-18
tonyo6302 10-Jun-18
LBshooter 10-Jun-18
nmwapiti 10-Jun-18
WV Mountaineer 10-Jun-18
South Farm 11-Jun-18
South Farm 11-Jun-18
EF Hutton 11-Jun-18
Scar Finga 11-Jun-18
BIG BEAR 11-Jun-18
South Farm 12-Jun-18
South Farm 12-Jun-18
trophyhill 12-Jun-18
Eddie Maxwell 12-Jun-18
EF Hutton 13-Jun-18
EF Hutton 13-Jun-18
nmwapiti 14-Jun-18
From: Scar Finga
07-Jun-18
So I was reading a different post, and I saw a question presented... Why Don't Hunters Get Involved, and fight for our rights?

So a lot of people have asked why don't hunters get more involved, well here is a look from a different perspective... (and I am in this category) Most hunters are run of the mill blue collar guys that may make a decent living but they are not rich. I know a ton of guys from different states and interests that have tried to get involved in local charters/ groups/ clubs that support hunting- All Types... Archery, Rifle, Bird Dog Clubs, Fishing etc. When they get involved, because they aren't experienced, or rich, or haven't killed a bunch of HUGE animals, they are treated as outsiders and second rate citizens, and some just plain get ripped off. I have been a member of five different clubs/ orgs/ groups that I will not name. I have experienced first hand almost all of the above and a few that I don't need to go into. My point is this, if the organizations/ groups/ clubs really want to make a difference, then they need to change the way they do business! They need to change the way they treat the "Average" guy, the way they treat new members that may not have that much knowledge. In one instance, I was told straight out that because a certain member donates a lot of money to "our" club, we won't call him out on his shady deals and actions. Really? When that type of behavior is tolerated and actually accepted/ encouraged because a person of questionable integrity donates a lot of money and resources, his actions are acceptable? That puts a lot of guys off! I have walked away from almost every club I have joined because I see the good ol boy club in full effect, I have seen judges in competitions award a win just because of who that person was to the "club" So if you ask why we don't get involved, maybe ask yourself... How do I treat others? How do we treat new comers? How do we represent ourselves to the "New Guy"?

This is just a different perspective, and something to consider. I am not looking for a bashing, so don't go there! I have watched young guys seeking knowledge be completely shut out because nobody wants to teach them, and show them "THEIR SPOT" so they are treated as less than the GROUP.

God Bless,

Scar.

From: Treeline
07-Jun-18
Good synopsis, Scar.

From: EF Hutton
07-Jun-18
I left a career over the

“ club “ which i call a clique.

Well written. Today we do not have conservationists any more. They are fading out baby boomers.

Today we have celebrityism, competition, commercialism. Game animals are like a cartoon i watched in the 80’s. When you run low, you add water in the pot and make more.

Whole different world today

From: BIG BEAR
07-Jun-18
Number one reason as far as I'm concerned is that Hunters can't agree with what "rights" should be fought for. Hunters bicker like bitter people among themselves.... over things like baiting for deer.... antler point restrictions,,,, Hounds for bear..... crossbows..... etc.... etc...... etc....

One set of hunters always seems determined to help to outlaw or limit types of hunting they don't agree with....

With so much disagreement within our ranks...... good luck getting all hunters to rally on specific topics in mass....

From: Jaquomo
07-Jun-18
EF, you left out maybe the worst "ism" with younger folks and that's narcissism...

From: HDE
07-Jun-18
Blue collarism. Not a bad thing, in fact, the very backbone if America. The crux to that, however, is BC guys work 40 - 50 hrs per week, raise a family, and go to church on Sunday. Sometimes there just isn't enough daylight to get it all done so you have to make what time you do have count.

Not sure what the answer is but getting upset over how someone does things (or uses) is part of the problem...

From: HDE
07-Jun-18
Also, narcissism is a behavioral trait that has no age limit.

Most CEO's have that trait to some degree or another.

From: Beendare
07-Jun-18
If all hunters banded together we would be a force to be reckoned with!

I think the avg hunters mentality is less likely to make Tham interested in anything politics....can't blame them.

We can however, explain to them that EVERYTHING IS POLITICS and just a small amount of involvement to defend the sport we love pays big dividends for us AND future generations.

If you won't get involved for yourself....do it for your kids.

[SCI and NRA life member here]

From: DConcrete
07-Jun-18
We are too busy fighting amongst ourselves. Look no further than bowsite.

From: EF Hutton
07-Jun-18
Get off my Lawn !

Lol

From: gobbler
07-Jun-18
Sportsmen are their own worst enemy. Many are apathetic until they lose something then it’s too late. Too much fighting between groups. This plays right into the anti-hunters divide and conquer plan.

From: drycreek
07-Jun-18
All these posts and I ain't found anything I disagree with yet. Must be a Bowsite record, at least for me. :-)

07-Jun-18
^^^ Lol

From: Jaquomo
07-Jun-18
Some hunters voted to end spring bear and all baiting here in CO. We are a house divided. Betting if bowhunting ever gets on the ballot here, in an either-or state, some rifle hunters would vote against us to get us out of the woods before they get there.

State bowhunting orgs are our strongest lobby, yet the membership is pitifully low percentage of bowhunters. That says something too.

From: DConcrete
08-Jun-18
We totally are a house divided. It’s really sad. There are hunters on this site that are extremely hateful people. They claim they’re for freedom, but they’re not. They’d gladly take away from somebody else because they don’t like the method. This is why hunters will become defeated.

The antis can agree to be against everything. Hunters can’t agree to be for each other. Pretty simple concept really. There was a thread not that long ago where somebody stated, they’re tired of hearing how we need to stick together.

Oh and by the way, for those that still don’t believe it, hunter participation is down. New recruitment is down. It’s a continueing trend. Yet there’s some that are super excited because now they may be able to draw Wyoming elk tags easier.

From: thedude
08-Jun-18
Loss of public lands is my biggest fear. Transfer of fed lands to the state scares me, native and rural communities using the subsistence board to block non local users on federal lands scares me and liberal nut jobs scare me. It’s definitely the time to stay involved politically and promote the lifestyle in a positive light.

From: Mike-TN
08-Jun-18
Understanding why hunters don’t unite is a tough one but even though there is a lot to be gained we do not. I think some of the reason could be how competitive we are in that we want to kill the biggest or the most and we are not really pulling for each other and the long term sustainability of hunting. Now that I think of it maybe it’s just selfishness and the attitude of “if it does not affect me then I really don’t care enough to get excited / upset about it.” Either way it is likely to be a long term problem that will effect future generations. IMO the love that today’s society has for animals.... dogs, cats, bears wolves and all wild animals is a bad direction. The amount of money this country spends on pets when there are humans in the world living in far worse conditions is really sad. I really don’t understand the agenda of anti hunters.... get involved in feeding people, curing cancer or some other worthwhile cause and leave wildlife management to hunters who have a vested interest in the long term sustainability of wildlife and are willing to fund it.

From: elkstabber
08-Jun-18
Scar - you're absolutely right. I've seen it here at the state level in VA. There has to be a better way to do business. We hunters have to be able to pull together enough to defend/advance laws that are important to us.

The politicians, for the most part, just don't care about hunting. And largely they are not educated about hunting issues. They are going to vote in the direction that they are pushed/lobbied. I've found that having a hunting conversation with a lawmaker is about like having a hunting conversation with an inlaw (or distant relative) that you hardly know. They simply don't care.

We hunters have to convince the lawmakers why they should vote for what is important to us. But first, like Scar pointed out, we have to be doing it for the right reasons and a lot of groups have lost sight of that.

From: BIG BEAR
08-Jun-18
All I have to do to illustrate how divided we are is mention the crossbow debate. I've never hunted with a crossbow and have no plans to.... but I'm certain that there are many here who would vote to outlaw them except for handicapped people. Just as some rifle hunters would vote to outlaw bows......

From: Deertick
08-Jun-18
I was talking to the CEO of a company that makes accessories for rifles. I thought his new product would also have archery potential. He said "Yeah, I know, but archery is such a small market, it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend time bringing a product to market for them." Archery is a small niche.

And hunting overall is a small niche compared to the rest of the economy. I don't think we're really our worst enemies. I think the rest of the country simply doesn't care about us. We're not that big of a segment of the population to warrant attention. At all.

From: EF Hutton
08-Jun-18
We will never get along internally. We will stay divided until the old school conservationists ( ME ) die out or retire from the woods. We know the old way is fading out. Just being out there away from the man world, enjoying watching that beaver work so hard, letting momma doe pass with the 2 little ones, so much still to teach them. But when the big one passes, we will kill it and put it down in the truck bed, unseen, take it home and clean it.

Today, the guys back at camp are 2 ahead of me, gotta kill. I see the newer videos, with the gothic church music, and the narrating of being alone, one on one, ......... hey, its wierd but its a start. There should be no celebrity hunter, no pro staff. No Espn type game. Hunting used to be a rural pastime. It has become “ cool “ to hunt. Its what is “ in.”

The only future of hunting is what this newer gen makes it. The old ways are gone. Those who got to experience it be lucky to have those memories. The reins have been handed over.

Time to see what them old guys are discussing at the cafe 6:30 am every morning . “ Back in the day .......”. Lol !

Hang out on the Leatherwall . Lol !

From: HDE
08-Jun-18
BIG BEAR 110% correct.

08-Jun-18
This is an interesting conversation and can't argue against any of the discussion. I do feel on a whole that Deertick is spot on. We really are a sliver of the population so the majority could care less. Back to Scars original post treating others with respect and showing integrity as an organization is paramount, but even then I don't think people will Join. I have spent years trying to recruit, and establish a 'why' to the question of dwindling numbers in bowhunting organizations and I don't have an answer that has made a difference. If you maintain your standards/beliefs you are an elitist good ol boys club and if you loosen that and welcome the masses you lose your identity as an organization.

Matt

From: LINK
08-Jun-18
Good post and I get it about the good ole boy club. Most everything in life has cliques though and this site is no different. I often tell me kids, “ life isn’t fair and the sooner you figure that out, the better off you’ll be” and “you can’t blame the game on the referees, you have to play good enough that a few bad calls won’t take you out of the game”. I don’t want them growing up with some delusion about being treated fair and equal and if they don’t get treated that way they take their marbles and go home. They know how to stand up for themselves and be confident but pride is a dangerous thing.

From: EF Hutton
08-Jun-18
To an extent !

But they will also begin to Follow instead of Lead, in all of life. They will begin to follow the crowd to fit in, thus abandon their true beliefs. This is what a Clique is.

Go study Frank Serpico NYPD and the Lamplighter movement.

From: EF Hutton
08-Jun-18

EF Hutton's Link

From: LINK
08-Jun-18
EF , verdict is out on my younger girls still but my oldest leads her class in nearly every category, socially,academically, athletically, ethically. You don’t have to push her, she pushes herself nearly too hard. She is a good kid. She doesn’t tolerate more than she can handle but she understands she can move on to another day and that she has to work for what she gets, nothing is given her in the name of fairness and equality. The only thing she’s entitled to is freedom of thought. When things don’t go her way she doesn’t quit or pout.

From: Vonfoust
08-Jun-18
IMO I think most hunters are hunters specifically because they don't want to 'be bothered'. I would guess that if you took segments of society you would find that a much higher percentage of hunters than the rest of society are 'loners'. I'm not hunting because I like people. It's difficult to herd the fiercely independent people that constitute hunters and get them all moving in the same direction. (FWIW I am a member of a few organizations, but truthfully it's just money donated. I have no interest in speaking with politicians or frankly, most people, about hunting.)

From: LKH
08-Jun-18
Well, I'm going to venture you have had a couple bad experiences. But you shouldn't let that give you an excuse to drop out. I'm a life member of a club in OR and used to belong to the AK Bowhunters. Did D.U. for about 10 years.

Even in clubs that have a lot of members you'll find almost all the work is done by about 10% of the club. That's just the way it is and that's okay. Even those who aren't really active are important. Numbers count when it comes for your influence. I belong to the RMEF but don't do anything except give my name and another voter they can refer to when lobbying. Same for NRA.

I believe that even if you don't attend or do much, just being a member is very important. That reminds me, now that I've moved full time to MT I've got to get active here.

From: LINK
08-Jun-18
You want a club that’s real frustrating? Get involved in a church, those places are full of sinners.;) if your not careful you will be offended often. Like many organizations it’s not about me, it’s about the bigger picture. Unfortunately for some of these “clubs” it’s money that makes the world go round.

From: elk yinzer
08-Jun-18
I pretty much agree exactly with what Vonfoust said. Most people just want to live their lives and could care less about the noise. I live to hunt. If bowhunting became illegal tomorrow, I would do it anyways. I'm not doing it to impress anyone, make friends, attract sponsors, or join a tribe. I'll dive right in to the extent issues are important and close at heart, but a few of the organizations have alienated me over the years. The whole kumbaya thing that I am supposed to belong to an org so that they can fight for some obscure trophy hunting halfway across the world is a load of crap. Money is tight at this point in my life and I'm not just pissing it around because of empty threats and fear mongering. I like to see real grassroots conservation work where it matters to me locally. I know this isn't fully the truth, but I think a lot of guys perceive that they don't care for the circle jerks and back patting that goes on within a lot of 501c3 conservation orgs. I know how donor relations work and why it has to go on, but it's not my scene. To some extent, just being a good hunter, being a good representative of the sport, and passing the tradition onto your kids is the best work you can do. Nothing wrong with keeping your nose down and just staying in your lane.

Couldn't disagree more with EF and his generational crap that conservation is dying. Every generation has its share of clowns. Lots of god fearing, humble hunters my age that get it done quietly with good old fashioned hard work. It's just that the attention seeking idiots that are the most visible.

From: EF Hutton
08-Jun-18
Get what done ?

From: elk yinzer
08-Jun-18
Enjoy themselves in the great outdoors. Fulfill their own personal quest for satisfaction. For some, that may be watching chipmunks and beavers hump each other or whatever it is you sanctimoniously say is the right way to do it. For others, it may be something different.

From: South Farm
08-Jun-18
I don't get involved for a multitude of reasons..

1. I got into this as a loner seeking solitude, an escape from organized types of recreation, so "clubs" and organizations by nature are not my cup of tea. I detest the commercialization and competitiveness that hunting has become.

2. I don't agree with what many of you call "hunting", so why affiliate myself with it/you?

3. I don't believe my right to hunt and kill for food hinges on the beliefs of the non- hunting or anti-hunting segments of society. (Ban it and I will still go hunt, period.)

4. Prefer to spend my time enjoying the pursuit of the hunt rather than always worrying about its future. Who of us can add but even one minute to our lives through worry? Like I said above, if hunting is banned I will still go hunting albeit more covertly...and save $$$ on licenses in the process.

From: elkstabber
08-Jun-18
South Farm you are not part of the solution. Hunting will progress without you.

From: Witherstick
08-Jun-18
While I agree with much of the points made above, I know that one thing that I have noticed is that todays hunters invest less of themselves. Thus, with less invested of themselves in the hunt there is no reason to that think they will invest themselves into protecting the future of hunting.

Today one can go and buy whatever equipment and gadgets they need to accurately shoot a game animal in an afternoon. The same person can even buy the hunt. Likewise, they can buy the latest shooting house, cameras, attractants, etc. In order to avoid being much of a hunter but more of just a shooter. I can't even begin to count how many young men i know who have gotten into hunting and throw money at compensating for their lack of skill. After taking a few deer, they are done. How can you expect them to offer any effort towards the future of hunting?

I am not saying that one certain method or methods is superior. I am saying that maybe if we start selecting the least we need in order to take game then we establish an example of how to invest one's self into the pursuit. I know that my children grew up taking deer with firearms and progressed to the point that by their midteens no one hunted with anything other than stickbows. None of them will use a blind, attractants, and only occasionally use a treestand over 10 feet high. My wife and I hunt the same. Would you believe that as young adults and numerous game taken all three are still staunch hunters?

Just my thoughts based on my observations.

From: jjs
08-Jun-18
Everyone on here needs to go attend the Wi. Conservation Committee Spring Hearings that is open in every county and can witness on what actually goes on, went to them for 20 yrs. Deer hunting is always the hot topic, small game not so much. The general consensus have always to make the hunt more easier and is primary private land hunt driven, public hunting takes the back seat. The Spring Hearings is a good barometer to evaluate the hunters mindset and the future is not so good, it is a individual gratification not what is good for the whole.

From: South Farm
08-Jun-18
elkstabber, re-read what I wrote and you will see that I will progress without you.

There are laws that govern every facet of your life and you daily choose to follow them or step outside the bounds of those laws...speeding for example. Just as a speed limit sign can't dictate to you how fast you drive, a ban on hunting can't dictate to me whether or not I shoot a deer. I know it's a simplistic view, but it's one I prefer to worrying my whole life on what's up the anti-hunting movements sleeve. And just imagine for a minute how pissed off they must be to know there's people like me out there that will NEVER quit putting meat in the freezer simply because they think they can hold power over me. They can't, and I hope it drives 'em nuts. If you want to collectively stand together to fight them why don't you consider my philosophy instead...or are you afraid of them?

From: drycreek
08-Jun-18
So many good, thought provoking posts, especially Vonfoust and elk yinzer. (What the hell is a yinzer?) I should have finished the 19th grade !

I have, at one time or another, belonged to DU, Delta Waterfowl,NWTF, RMEF, SCI, QDMA, and DSC. Now, I don't hunt elk, or go to Africa, and haven't duck hunted in 20 years or more. I did however, believe these orgs to be worthwhile, and the drinks were free (and overflowing) at the DU banquets. This was when I was working and making good money. Now I'm on SS and Uncle Sam doesn't give me that kind of an allowance. I'm a lifer in the NRA and the TSRA and annually in Lone Star Bowhunters Assoc. Still, as Vonfoust said, it's just a donation to a cause, but maybe it helps to bolster the membership numbers.

I believe, and always will, that the "celebrity type" tv guys have contributed, not in a good way, to some of our problems. I just can't see hunting as a competition for the biggest racks in a positive light. Not all of them, but the majority treat hunting like a game, a competition. It has never been that for me, and I've never looked down on anyone for their means and methods, as long as it's legal. Who in the hell am I to judge ?

From: nmwapiti
08-Jun-18
There are a lot of forces pushing us in the wrong direction. Access to good hunting keeps getting tougher. Tags keeps getting more expensive. Attention spans keep getting shorter (specifically with the kids these days). Life keeps getting busier.

Wildlife boards, Game departments, etc keep doing things to make more money. The wealthy keep doing things like leasing up good land to make their lives easier. The bottom line, however, is that average people keep getting pushed farther from good, affordable hunting. If hunter numbers drop low enough, it will be bad for all of them, but I don't see any change in direction coming.

I just retired fairly young so I could hunt more. I legitimately fear for the future of the sport. Who knows what this country will value in 20 years. I am a member of several good organizations, but I don't think they can overcome the issues above. Like many on here, I'll be hunting somewhere for something until I'm dead, but it definitely isn't getting easier.

From: gobbler
08-Jun-18

gobbler's embedded Photo
gobbler's embedded Photo
We have an issue in WV where a group of anti-hunters are trying to stop a controlled Deer hunt at a state park. We have had controlled Deer hunts at state parks for 18 years. This park was just added to the list a couple of months ago by the DNR Commission on behalf of the DNR. I want to thank the Sportsmens Allience for their help in fighting the anti-hunters in an assault on hunters. This is in one of the bow-hunting only counties and is planned to be an Archery only hunt. If anyone wants to help preserve a WV DNR approved bowhunt feel free to call the Governor in support of the controlled hunt.

From: Bowriter
09-Jun-18
Simple, concise answer. Hunters are too busy fighting with each other over silly crap than banding together and actually getting involved in something worthwhile. If you doubt that, just read any post on here about a huge variety of matters that matter...not.

From: Owl
09-Jun-18
Frankly, more people are not involved because expanding/maintaining our legal access is just not that relevant in their lives. When the cuts are deep enough, more numbers will rally. That's not a prescription just an observation. The nature of preservation is inexhaustive, self-less vigilance and humans really suck at that.

From: EF Hutton
09-Jun-18
It is inevitable which way hunting will go. Follow bass fishing. When i was a WL Agent, i had to catch up to a “ celebrity “ fisherman to get a boat accident form filled out. It was the big Bass Masters Classic. I had to go to their “ awards “ night to catch up to him. The big city arena. These guys were sitting in a bass boat on a trailer, being towed out onto the floor, with the Queen song playing “ We Are The Champions “ and the dude is holding up a stringer of fish.

I shook my head in disbelief. Thought about me and grandpa on a quiet creekbed just enjoying a rural pastime. How did it come to this ?

From: midwest
09-Jun-18
Throwing money at an organization is easy. Recruiting a new hunter would do much more to help the cause. I'm guilty of slacking at the latter for the last decade or so mainly because I've lost the great access to local hunting I used to have.

From: Tonybear61
09-Jun-18
I have been on the board, even president of my states bowhunting organization and a field contact for USSA (now Sportsmans Alliance). What I could tell you from that experience over 30 years is complacency, complacency, complacency.

If its not immediately in the face of bowhunters and hurting their access or choice of technique it doesn't count.(e.g. issue based- crossbow, airgun, season encroachment)

I remember in one occasion when I was visiting folks at clubs, 3-D shoots and even Camp Ripley to get them fired up about a big reg change. Tried to get a group of guys interested and basically it was , "we all hunt private land (club or they owned it), all this doesn't apply to us..." That right there indicated private ownership of a public resource. This in a state with vast public resources and access.

When it came to a raffle to promote USSA I had more participation if they saw the prizes as worthwhile, not the cause. The local chapters, meeting invites, lobbying in many ways has dried up, Folks just don't seem to care-generally until its too late.

Even my closest fiends and family in the hunting circle don't participate, again don't have the time , not even $20 to spare, blah, blah, blah it's pathetic. If this kind of behavior continues it will be gone as yes its the non-hunting public 75-80% of the population that controls the 11% of the population that hunts and fishes. The extremely radical 9 % who are anti-hunting , fishing can educate or lie to them through their funding and sway it in their favor. That is a fact.. So toughen up buttercup if you aren't out there to support hunting, you are against it.

That said membership in various clubs ended up being one of the working braves (not the chief) so it was , work, work, work at every shoot instead on enjoying them (which is the reason I joined in the first place). Same thing can be said about banquets, conventions, Bowhunters Ed., no different than church volunteering as someone already pointed out.

New comers seem to get it for a while , see the commitment then bail. It seems to all be about entitlement, quick reward, and then move on. A cultural thing that is just really hard to change.. Good Luck, been trying as long as I have been bowhunting over 4 decades now..

09-Jun-18
Tony, I see the ownership of land doing just the opposite. Frustrated with the poor habits observed on public land, many turn to private ownership to do it "right", and for the most part are better stewards of the land.

So much of this goes on now I believe it is having a positive impact on wildlife conservation and public image.

Also, many give individually...as an example, during our annual in-service each summer at the college, I do a presentation on wildlife conservation. Many have come out to our farm to see it as this is what I mainly talk about. We are working on collaborating with our Sustainability and Agriculture programs.

Many are taking approaches like this instead of through formal organizations, and I bet there are a lot of reasons but one of mine is avoiding politics. Thanks.

From: qdm
09-Jun-18
Tony hit the nail on the head .I've Bowhunted 60+ yrs and the posts above scare the hell out of me if I felt the way most of the so called bow hunters above feel I sure wouldn't post on here and yes it's the entitlement generation.Sad

From: wilhille
09-Jun-18
"Hunting will progress without you." This is one reason. The question was put out in open forum, someone answers why he doesn't participate, and this is the answer he got. Well then, why ask? Because someone has an opinion that differs, their answer is not relevant. It reminds me of the days of good ol Teddy. Mostly every single one of the "sportsmen" in his day HATED him. They felt that his "progressive views" in politics would be the end of hunting, nor just their monopoly. It went against the status quo. He had a progressive view. people, mostly conservatives in his day, hatred him for these votes because it prevented them from raping and pillaging the land at The expence of the less powerful. The same thing i read about everyday here on this site. That attitude shuns and pushes away 90 percent of the young adults and youth who do nor necessarily have the same goals as the status quo majority on this site and in this"pastime. " why would any newcomer want to come into this? Bunch of old men who belittle, bash and run off anyone who doesn't agree with them 100 percent. Not only on this site but in the shops, at the range, it's all the same. Its not inclusive, by any means and most on here would like to keep it that way. No room for any outside thought or ideas. I'm pretty sure the 90 percent on this site who love to preach about how they look up to President Teddy and how we need more like him, would have actually HATED him if he were in politics today. He was that evil "progressive" that a majority on this site can't stand. And Pinchot, forget about it. Most on this site would dance on his grave.

just some of my observations. Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe it is a hobby that welcomes people from all walks of life, culture and religions. Maybe I've been hanging out with the wrong group at the shop and reading the wrong internet forums. Idk.

Just my observations. Don't run me off this site for it lol....

From: wilhille
09-Jun-18
I promise I put paragraph breaks in the first one lol.

"Hunting will progress without you." This is one reason. The question was put out in open forum, someone answers why he doesn't participate, and this is the answer he got. Well then, why ask? Because someone has an opinion that differs, their answer is not relevant. It reminds me of the days of good ol Teddy.

Mostly every single one of the "sportsmen" in his day HATED him. They felt that his "progressive views" in politics would be the end of hunting, nor just their monopoly. It went against the status quo. He had a progressive view. people, mostly conservatives in his day, hatred him for these views because it prevented them from raping and pillaging the land at The expence of the less powerful. The same thing i read about everyday here on this site. That attitude shuns and pushes away 90 percent of the young adults and youth who do nor necessarily have the same goals as the status quo majority on this site and in this"pastime. " why would any newcomer want to come into this? Bunch of old men who belittle, bash and run off anyone who doesn't agree with them 100 percent. Not only on this site but in the shops, at the range, it's all the same. Its not inclusive, by any means and most on here would like to keep it that way. No room for any outside thought or ideas.

I'm pretty sure the 90 percent on this site who love to preach about how they look up to President Teddy and how we need more like him, would have actually HATED him if he were in politics today. He was that evil "progressive" that a majority on this site can't stand. And Pinchot, forget about it. Most on this site would dance on his grave.

just some of my observations. Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe it is a hobby that welcomes people from all walks of life, culture and religions. Maybe I've been hanging out with the wrong group at the shop and reading the wrong internet forums. Idk.

From: LBshooter
09-Jun-18
It's like the gun issue, I don't shoot an AR 15 and don't want one so I think it's ok if they ban them, WRONG!! A gun is a gun and the amount of gun owners I know who aren't members in the NRA blows my mind. They tend not to care of get involved until it directly affects them. I went to a village board meeting a couple weeks ago of a town north of me, they were debating the banning of semi auto assault weapons, I showed up to add numbers to the pro gun side. When I walked into the room I was shocked at how few people were there, I was 20 mins early. Once the meeting started the room was full as far as seats, and most of the pro gunners were non residents , sad. Wake up folks and get the game because once it's over it's hard to get it back .

From: EF Hutton
09-Jun-18
The use of hunting to justify an IWI Tavor is BS.

From: BIG BEAR
09-Jun-18
LBshooter...... This is the wrong thread for you discuss the right to own a gun........

The argument between different types of hunters usually focuses on USE of those weapons... and access to hunting with them.......

Would you attend a meeting of crossbow hunters who want to make hunting with crossbows legal during Archery season ?? I sure wouldn't...... Does that mean I don't support protecting hunting until it affects me ??

From: LBshooter
09-Jun-18
The attitude is the same bear. Until it affects the individuals way of doing things they tend not to care. Crossbows are legal during archery season so your point is moot.

From: BIG BEAR
09-Jun-18
So what are you saying about every archer who battled to keep crossbows out of archery season ???

You're a longbow shooter....... Were you posting over on the leatherwall that trad shooters should support crossbows..... back when the crossbow supporters were pushing to get them legalized in archery season ???

From: Thornton
09-Jun-18
Sadly, many sports are like this. I've found flying and fishing to be the most welcoming and helpful of them all. Sporting clays is a close second but there are still a lot of snobs. Hunting is getting to where friends don't even talk during season because of all the leasing and infringement of hunting spot dynamics.

From: LBshooter
09-Jun-18
Bear, I don't care if guys use a crossbow, it's not going to impact my hunt or how I hunt. I have friends who use them do to physical issues. If it's the only way they can hunt then it's fine with me.

10-Jun-18
Thorton, I think you are correct about guys not sharing as much when it comes to hunting. For me, it simply is the increased pressure brought on by more human activity, scent, etc. has a negative impact on animals observed during the daylight on a specific parcel of land. No different than not sharing a honey hole in an overlooked fishing spot on a busy lake really.

From: EF Hutton
10-Jun-18
When you are on Public and kill a MB, you have to sneak him out, send a lookout out to see if coast is clear, load him up fast and low, and enter the Wma Nwr kill tag in a chek station box at a different unit.

From: jjs
10-Jun-18
LBshooter I don't care it doesn't effect my hunt statement is typical of the private land hunters until they go to public grounds and then it does effect the hunt. As long as this mindset prevalent the house will always be divided, equipment/method limitations is not what hunters want for the betterment of the hunt. What is passed on private as inferior is a trophy one public.

10-Jun-18
Many who hunt today do it only because it is easy. They have not and will not make hunting a priority in their lives. Different hunting culture when compared to 50 years ago. Nothing wrong with not making hunting a significant lifetime priority, lots of other things to do in life, and many are more productive.

From: tonyo6302
10-Jun-18
BIG BEAR, DC Concrete, and Jaquomo X 1000.

.. …

.. .. .

I think it is also ethics, or work ethics.

.. .. ..

Work day at the archery range yesterday, just two of us showed up to cut up 5 downed trees from last weekends storm.

Same ole sh!t since the 1970s, with every archery club I have belonged to from California to Virginia, and states in-between. It is the same few that show up on clean-up day every time.

No one wants to work anymore, they just assume and expect that others with get the job done for them.

smh

From: tonyo6302
10-Jun-18
BIG BEAR, DC Concrete, and Jaquomo X 1000.

.. …

.. .. .

I think it is also ethics, or work ethics.

.. .. ..

Work day at the archery range yesterday, just two of us showed up to cut up 5 downed trees from last weekends storm.

Same ole sh!t since the 1970s, with every archery club I have belonged to from California to Virginia, and states in-between. It is the same few that show up on clean-up day every time.

No one wants to work anymore, they just assume and expect that others with get the job done for them.

smh

From: LBshooter
10-Jun-18
Jjs, it doesn't effect me becuase I'm not a horn Hunter, I hunt for the meat and the enjoyment of hunting. This horn porn is what's killing hunting.

From: nmwapiti
10-Jun-18
I'm an open trophy hunter. I do it partly for the challenge, partly to extend my hunting time and partly because nothing gets me going like the sight of giant antlers. I know some non-hunters don't understand that, but I don't understand plenty of things they do. Trophies used to represent something very special. It was that big buck or bull that was so smart or lived in such a hole that noone could kill him. Private ranches and limited draw units have made it much easier to kill big animals. Now you just have to have the money or draw the tag. They're really robbing themselves of the challenge and experience. It you kill a 360 elk every year on private land, it isn't much of a trophy.

10-Jun-18
And, ......... here we are are divided over what this thread entitles, what is proper to post, and how we need to look at this subject to be successful.

From: South Farm
11-Jun-18
If I was a young up and comer tossing around the idea of getting into hunting, and all I had to base my opinion of "hunting" on was the hunting shows I see on TV, I'd probably say to hell with that! The way it's portrayed on 9 out of 10 shows makes it look boring as hell...ride out in a bad boy buggy, sit in a box staring at a food plot all day. Somebody shoot me, who the hell wants to do that?!? And God forbid I don't shoot a B&C in the first 20 minutes. Think I'll go play Mortal Combat with my buddies instead, at least there's no mosquitoes in his mom's basement..

You want kids in the woods you better be prepared to sacrifice some time bringing them...don't leave it up to TV to inspire 'em.

From: South Farm
11-Jun-18
Having said that, kids are different now; most can hardly be dragged to the woods. They aren't wired like we were back in the day (most). Electronic age has poisoned them and it's hard as hell for nature to stimulate their minds. Back when all we had was stick to play with it was much easier for a kid to seek adventure in the woods. MHO.

From: EF Hutton
11-Jun-18
I started with a wind up rabbit, and a suction cup dart shooting pistol.

Then dad got me a Crosman 760. I guess he could not afford a Benjamin. Its ok. I made the best out of it. Then came the Sears Roebuck 410 crack barrel. Aunt Bernadette brought home this school recurve. In no time i made a 16 penny nail sight pin set, and got them to drop me off for an eve hunt. It just expanded from there.

From: Scar Finga
11-Jun-18
^^^^ THIS^^^^ As Rodney Dangerfield Said, I was 12 years old, alone in my room, and I got started! Sorry, I couldn't resist!

From: BIG BEAR
11-Jun-18
Have you seen the thread on The leatherwall about canoes vs. kayaks ?? Hunters getting crappy with each other over a debate about which is better.... Unreal. Just a small sample of how some hunters treat others in their own ranks.

From: South Farm
12-Jun-18
If you're fighting over canoe vs. kayak you're not "in the same rank"...and that is part of the "problem", everyone thinks we have to agree lock stock and barrel on each and every issue simply because we all hunt. Can't we still have varying opinions and try to get along and walk away when we don't? I vote Republican, but I don't agree with every decision the Republican party makes, for example..

12-Jun-18
South Farm, yes is my answer to your question; however, the disagreements seem too often to become personal and that is why it is frustrating, IMHO.

From: South Farm
12-Jun-18
Human nature dictates that in the court of public opinion (aka Bowsite forum or any other platform where we can be spout off) that we prove ourselves right. It's not enough to listen or agree to disagree, or simply walk away when we don't. No matter the subject we want to be right and we won't quit until we're heard.

(And that's why everybody with half a brain knows it's more practical to haul a dead deer in a canoe rather than on-top of a kayak;)) LMAO!

From: trophyhill
12-Jun-18
Hmmmmm. Why don't hunters get involved? Couple thoughts off the top of my head. Selfish? Greed? Talk the talk but don't walk the walk? That's a tough question when guessing about someone you know nothing about ;) I'm sure it's a long list on the Y's of the matter ;)

12-Jun-18
My experience has shown that hunters that get involved in defending OUR hunting rights will be attacked by other hunters as much or more than anyone else. Speaking up against encroachments will get you permanently banned from many hunting forums.

From: EF Hutton
13-Jun-18
What i have witnessed is that if one is independent and a go getter, the pack , or clique will attempt to knock him back down off the totem pole. Because the pack cannot achieve, they try to knock the indepdndent achiever back down to their level. You see this mentality in all facets of life, work place promotions, hunting, other sports, etc. A prime example is one who becomes a mature buck hunter and is quite successfull. The ones who wont leave the pack and learn, begin to jump on the achiever like a “ pack “ of wolves.

Signs of this would be, “ oh he is hunting after dark with the headlight “ or, “ he bondo those antlers on . “

This phenomenom is strong today. The pack mentality is strong. It goes all the way back to high school when kids alter their true beliefs to fit in with the pack, there it is usually the rich kid with the sports car , or the football quarterback. Kids put their true beliefs aside to fit in. Maslow acknowledged this in his Heirarchy of Life pyrimid. The “ need to belong. “

This is the psyche today behind the constant in-fighting. This is part of competition. Since today the “ be one with the outdoors, get away from it all Conservationist “ is all but gone today, and the “ commercial competition Look at Me wanna be celebrity “ group has taken over, many younger starter hunters must follow to “ fit in and be accepted . “

See, there is that Maslow need to belong stray from true instinctive belief “ human psyche behaviorial adjustment.

THIS is what drives hunting today. And it will not go back to just a rural pastime. Thats why i say be glad if you got to experience the old days when one just escaped to be one with the outdoors, kill a few squirrels down by the creek. Take that forkhorn buck back home down in the truck bed unseen, clean it, end of story.

From: EF Hutton
13-Jun-18
The need to belong is so strong, that municipal governments create laws around “ what is popular .” Maslow describes the individual that beats this “ holdback “ and excells himself to achieve, as “ Self Actualize . “

In the hunting world, this would be the hunter who kills exceptional bucks quite regulary, but avoids the limelight. He hunts regular lands , not special off limits to others lands.

From: nmwapiti
14-Jun-18
I'd say Bowsite has more it's fair share of Self-Actualizers :)

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