giant stone ram
Wild Sheep
Killed with Yukon Stone, Darwin Watson. 46 x 48. Amazing....
No, Herm, it's not a bow kill.
He's the same guy that bought the Gov's tag in CO a few years back and took a B&C ram in unit 51. This is a great ram, no doubt. He hunted with yukon stone outfitters. Not a bad ram for $30k!!! $omething tell$ me I'm not going to be hunting with them anytime $oon.
WOW......nice ram. Cograts
Why is it that some people just can't get over what others can afford, that they themselves can't? It seems like every time this happens, someone has to comment about how much a hunt cost the guy. GET OVER IT! Just because you can't afford it, doesn't mean its wrong for someone who can. I can't afford $30K for a hunt right now either, but I admire the guy who can, and especially admire such an incredible animal.
Just think, that's probably one of the top 10, maybe top 5 stone sheep ever taken in all of history. When I first saw the picture, I thought that it looked an awful lot like the Chadwick ram, and at 48" he's only 3" shy of that #1 all time ram. Congratulations to the very fortunate hunter!
elknuts2,
"Why is it...?" Envy probably. A part of human behavior, unfortunately.
I agree. I look forward to the day in a few more years when I myself can spend that kind of money for a sheep hunt. First, I have two kids to put through college!
WOW that ram is awesome!!!!!
I just don't understand why all these gun kills keep showing up on a BOWHUNTING site? This one and the North Dakota bull elk, nice animals but shouldn't they be posting on some other site where they can get praise from other GUN hunters?
I just can't get excited about these fine animals when they are killed by high powered rifles. I just don't see the challenge, maybe I am just an eliteist snob....
Just a few days until the hunting action begins for us BOW hunters,
Helo
What is shows me is there are world record rams waiting to be had by bowhunters.
"Just because you can't afford it, doesn't mean its wrong for someone who can."
Sorry if I came across as condemming this guy for his great fortune - both in harvesting a great ram, both rams for that matter, and his financial situation for being able to do it. You guys are right, too, that I admire and am envious of his good fortune. I added the cost for this hunt because I knew stone's were expensive, but didn't think they were getting this high of price.
I've got a CO ram tag this year and if it weren't for guys like this with the means to buy the auction tags, our sheep herds wouldn't be in the shape they are. I, no we, owe these guys a big 'Thank You' for their contributions to putting sheep on the mountain.
Congrats on a great ram.
Dream on ! Do you guys know how many B&C Dall sheep have ever been killed???? ONE !!! It's not easy. The same holds true for stone sheep. There have been very few true booners killed with a bow. A dall or stone that scores in the 150's is great sheep. This thing pictured here is slug, gun or bow.
I am with heloman, this is a Bow site, How many of us could of killed some type of big game,if we had not blown the stalk if we had a rifle, but that is not the type of hunt I enjoy,I would miss out on my heart beating so hard,it feels like everyone and everything around me can hear it for miles and I still have twenty yards for bow range. bh1
Guys I think there's more to it than just envy and 'gettin' over it'.
Let me add another reason why some find the 'high-dollar' hunting a sore spot. (this may OR may not apply to this gentleman's situation)
When this country was established, the game was given to the people, not to the King and Royalty. Hunting was for the common man as well as the elite of society. For some, whether it's a Stone or an Elk or a squirrel, one person being allowed to buy his way around the permit process is a rub. Ordinary joe has to wait 2,3, 10 years or even a lifetime to hunt an animal or location. But, those with money can buy a permit and hunt every year. It smacks of the Old Country.
It's kind of like the rich guy in town paying off the mayor or inspector to let him build that house or shop that no one else can build because it's against zoning laws. Stated in First grade terms, "it's buttin' in line".
I think many see it as equality amoungst classes of people having access to game. Something our fore-fathers wanted to see changed so they wouldn't be 'poaching the King's deer'.
Boiled down to a sentence I think this is it.
Money should not buy you more opportunity when it comes to Hunting.
That's how I see it affecting people. A matter of fairness.
I think there's some history there we shouldn't forget. Jim
if it's about the animal and not the hunter it is easy to see why it is posted. the animal is what it is. that is what matters when they get that big not how they met their demise.
Ki-Ke....Steve, Great Animal! CONGRATS!!
When I first saw this thread I thought it was going to be a photo of Fred Eichler's new ram and last animal of his Grand Slam with "Trad"! (oh well)
Money makes the World Go Around and for 'most of us' we'll never get there! For those that have the capability and desire and drive and health I Do Envy Them!
The BowSite is just that...a bow site and I myself would never put in any type of firearm kills. But that's just me and I think most here are Bow Hunters first and foremost. "PAT" has a good site and I Thank Him For This Site! "PAT" is a Bow Hunter!
Congrats Steve and I wish you many mor successful trips thruout your life! NICE RAM and Beautiful Country up there. One Question though?.....Could you have taken this ram with a bow? I mean was it at all possible to get into range on that particular hunt?
Just Curious is all!.....Herm
JDM: You obviously come from good moral fabric!!
Nice FREAKIN ram!!!
Elknuts2: We're just going to have to try and change our peers. ONE at a time!!!
God Bless Us ALL!!!
That is one of most impressive Stone's I have ever seen...what a stud. I have hunted them twice, and if I knew there was an animal of that caliber in the hills I would not hesitate to second mortgage the house and pay the 30k to have a chance...seriously. For those who have hunted Stone's (or any of the other species)enjoy seeing sheep that hunters have killed, regardless if its a rifle, compound, recurve, longbow,selfbow, or atali(sp?). Thanks for posting that pic, that is awesome.
Here is a side pic of the ram.....
IF I had a picture I would show it but I was visiting Stan Walchuk Jr in July does anyone know wo that is? Stan shot with a bow the number one Pope and Young Stone in the World with a bow in British Columbia.
Beautiful full mount right in his living room. Check it out at Pope and Young. His story and how he got it is even better.
Oh and he did that on his own, no guide just hard work for 2 weeks
Lou, I met Stan filling our trucks in McBride, BC. Nice guy.
You don't think that people that hunt with a guide don't work hard? Congrats to Mr Walchuck. Tremendous accomplishment.
I to am envious (sp?) as heck.
Thanks for sharing the pic. I don't care if it was killed with a bow, gun or road kill. That is one awesome ram.
As I will never be able to afford to go on such a hunt, I have to enjoy that type of animal thru other peoples eyes. Congrats to the very luck hunter.
Wish me luck, I'm playin the lottery this weekend.
No Bark,
This ram was not taken in the USA. It was taken in Canada. In Canada, non-residents don't go through a draw. It's purely first come-first served with the outfitter. So Ki-Ke didn't "go around" anything to get his hunt.
Perhaps what he did do is work harder, smarter, and make better decisions in school and during his working career than most other folks. Which allowed him to become successful enough to afford the hunt.
I know for the most part Thinhorns don't broom as much, it is amazing to see after all that age, and I'm sure some dominance, there was no brooming! Unreal.
A buddy of mine took my hunt with Darwin and just got back.He said their was a 40 incher in every band of rams he saw.Got within longbow range 3 times on smaller rams but was holding out for the monarchs.Great hunt.
Great ram!!!! - How can anyone not appreciate that anmimal regardless of method killed?
Lou353,
where can a guy find the story you are talking about?
I like reading any and all sheep stories.
Sharpstick
Probably a gay ram, that's why his horns weren't broomed. JUUUUUST Kidding. Had to say "WOW" when I saw that 2nd pic. That is an impressive ram.
Terry
Great ram, congrats to the hunter! I love to see trophy animals, gun or bow. (But they are a bit closer to my heart when it's a bow.)
I see nothing wrong with posting the costs involved with the hunt. Envy? Maybe some. Lots of things I wished I could do but can't, or currently can't. Sometimes it involves setting a goal, sometimes just dreaming or wishful thinking. As long as nothing mean is said I see nothing wrong with it.
Fact is NA sheep hunting is going to be either a game of incredible luck (ask Bigdan how long he's put in for tags) or large, sometimes incredibly large, sums of money. Not crying about it, just the way it is. Yeah, I wish I could swing it. And the fact is it does narrow the field a bit.
But one can hope and dream. No animosity here. I don't begrudge anyone of what they have done or can do. Wish it was me? Yeah, probably some. Used to feel the same way when I'd see somebody with Jamie Lee Curtis. (that strip scene in True Lies...)
In the meantime I'll just hunt their midget cousins.
Herm and everyone else....
Yes, Herm, I could have killed this ram with a bow. I had him at 22 yards for 20 minutes, just enjoying the moment, being that close to such an AMAZING creation. Just as I was settling into my shooting position, the wind hit the back of my neck and the ram INSTANTLY blasted off my side of the mountain and across the canyon. I grabbed my guides 300 gooblacan shorty mag and blasted him with several misplaced shots and.............
Thats all BS. I did not kill that sheep. The pic's were emailed to me this AM by the Commander, the best taxidermist on the planet. He's got his finger on the pulse of such things.
Nature invested an incredible amount of resources to produce an animal of this quality, in an environment that no human could possibly survive unassisted in for one year, let alone for 10 or more. THAT alone is worthy of posting a pic of him on ANY site. If you truly love and appreciate wildlife for what it is, you should have NO problem seeing and appreciating such a magnificent beast on the bowsite, the GUN site or whatever other site floats your boat!
Simply because this guy can afford the price of admission, does that make him not worthy of having the opportunity to hunt this sheep? What are HELOMAN, NO BARK and other poo-pooers talking about?? I don't get it. If you had the $$, I mean big$$ and the price of admisssion was no big deal, YOU would be there too! That is, if you were physically able to.... Who am I or YOU to take ANYTHING away from his, or anyone elses accomplishments, if that's what makes them happy??!
For the record, I am WAY better looking and MUCH younger than the guy that killed that ram!
Bowsite, schmosite. I like big animals and I like to see pictures of them! I don't look at gun hunting sites beacuse I am a bowhunter, but like Cazador said above, it's good to know that animals of this class are out there!
Have a great HUNT!!!
-Steve
Great animal, thanks for the pics.
I'm envious and appreciative. Someone with that much money could spend it a whole lot of ways other than supporting game management, or do many more regular hunts for the price.
A buddy just bought a primo auction elk permit. One reason why he did it was because he knew the money was going to help improve the herd.
Like most of the kajillionaires I've met, he's 100% self-made. The only person I can blame for not having that kind of money is me.
Amen to anything with Jamie Lee Curtis!!!!!!
GOVERNOR'S TAG!
Very nice animal. Looks big to me. I am kidding on the Governors tag deal. Some of you guys are just ate up about this high dollar hunting.
Man if I had the $ I would be all over the freakin world hunting. You still have to work and kill it. This Governors Tag thing, I dont know a thing about it, but it sure does not bother me one bit.
Give it a break. I guess you would have killed it if he didn't? He probably has a nicer truck than I do. wwwwaaaaaa.
those hunts booked for 15K plus trophy fees,it's these next ones that will be 30.....
those hunts booked for 15K plus trophy fees,it's these next ones that will be 30.....
Can't take it with ya so you might as well spend it!
This ram was killed by Don Snyder from PA. I don't know him well, I only met him once or twice at easternFNAWS but in a short conversation he did mention his quest for a giant stone sheep. I guess his dream came true !!! If I remember right he said he has been on many stone sheep hunts looking for the "right" ram. That's all I know.
If you go to the following link, you can see that whopper Bighorn he tagged as well. It's under 00 Govenors tag. Man, his house must look cool.
Whoa! My buddy is up there now trying to take his Stone...
What a great Stone ram! I've got alot more respect for this sheep which was shot in an area that many hunters have given it a go than I do for any Governors type tag where special areas or seasons are allowed for the tag holder. In addition, Governors tag hunts usually involve a huge guide fee which allows for a TON of pre-hunt scouting by lots of people working for the guide/outfitter. This often reduces the "hunt" to putting the animal in the scope and pulling the trigger for a rifle hunter. I don't mind someone paying 30K and hunting hard for a great animal but stuff harvested during Governors tag hunts doesn't impress me. I'll agree that Gov. tag hunts in Alaska's 14C are tough but the guide spends all summer finding the right ram and the easiest way to access him. In addition, some special areas contain animals that are not very afraid of humans!
Alpine
I saved my money for years and took a good representative Fannin ram in the Yukon last year (rifle). The hunt was straight out of a Jack O'Connor story and the trip is a lifetime memory.
To see an animal like this one even in a picture is an amazing thing. What a beautiful ram!
Sharpstick wants me to tell Stans Story I.ve heard it twice anyone else interested??
Since he was not taken with a bow, I hope he was shot with a pre 64 model 70 Winchester in 270 cal. with a 130 gr. bullet. Maybe the bullet was propelled by a case packed with 4831 powder. Yep, I was a Jack O'Connor fan as well as of Fred Bear. I haven't had a rifle totten fan, except for my daughter, since Jack and Elenor. Shoot sharp - shoot straight!
If you guys think this ram is big have you seen the dall killed on the Kluane auction hunt in the Yukon this year?? Bart Lancaster guided this hunt. I saw the photo on monstermuleys.com. It is by far the best big game animal I have ever seen shot. It is a true 180+ dall, it looks like a small argali. I don't know how to load the photo on this site. Happy hunting
Beautiful ram and congrats to the hunter. Still not sure what this (or any number of recent horn porn threads) has to do with bowhunting?
As far as the cost, the good ole US of A guarantees equality of opportunity - not equality of outcome. This guy has obviously done well for himself, be it due to his hard work or being a member of the lucky sperm club. The logistics involved with sheep hunting are flat expensive, and until outfitting becomes a not-for-profit venture, folks should get used to the people who have the money to offset the outfitter's expenses plus providing a profit incentive having the opportunity.
I dont necessarily agree with the rich are the only ones who go on hunts like this. I know many, and have guided many people who are blue collar guys who mortgage their houses, take out loans, beg and borrow enough money to go on their dream hunt. I would take a $30k loan if I had just one opportunity to take a ram like this one. I will be moving back to BC in a year, so Stone sheep will only cost me the $50 tag and gas money! How about you Genesis, would you take a second mortgage to get a crack at a stud like this?
Dang... what an incredible symmetrical curl.... graceful..
Aloha...
Great Ram and congrats to the hunter-outfitter-guide on this harvest...
Good luck, Robb
Commander-
The Kluane auction tag dall....
Looks like a toothpaste advertisement :)
Great animal regardless of how it was shot. Should bowhunters be deprived of seeing it because it was taken with a rifle? I think not. All of you who are so taken aback by it being shown on Bowsite make me laugh. You bowhunt so you cannot look at it and appreciate it but how many of you who are married would drool over a gorgeous female. You're married so you can't look but you do. Get over it guys. It is a great animal so appreciate it!!
'some' just don't get it!
Wow!
Some day I hope to be the guy behind the Sheep!
Great Ram!
By the way, is it always about the dollars when someone who happens to be wealthy kills a large animal???
Michael
This is just a innocent question, but if you guys could choose which ram to kill (with a bow of course:), would you take the above Stone or Dall? While both are world class, I would go Stone only because they have kicked me square in the boys whenever I have hunted them.
I kinda like this view....
Ya know, if he really is 46 x 48 he could be a contender with even the Chadwick ram (though not likely to score higher).His base and circumference measurements are gonna be outstanding.
The Kluane Dall is definitely a contender for a WR.
I have been reading about and following sheep hunting for years and those two may be the best in my lifetime for their respective species. They are fantastic!
I think the Kluane ram from this year may be one of the greatest animals ever shot. Ever. Can anyone think of a dall that has been shot recently that nets over 180?? Don't get me wrong the stone is also world class. Both sheep are so big it screws up my head. They do't look real.
For me I would pick the Stone Sheep since they are my favorite animal to hunt but I think I would like to shoot both of the rams : )
Congratulations to Don Snyder on a great ram! by the way he is one of the nicest people you will ever meet.
I think the Dall ram killed last year in the same area scored in the mid 170’s and that was the biggest Dall I had seen until this years ram.
Here are the current B&C world’s records; it really shows what an incredible ram the Chadwick ram is. The Kluane Dall is definitely a rare animal but it would have to score nearly 190 inches to beat the current world record. The other issue for World record status is that the B&C scoring panel was in June of this year so they won’t have another until 2010, which is a long time and the horns will shrink a lot in that amount of time.
WORLD'S RECORDS DALL'S SHEEP
SCORE: 189 6/8
LOCATION: Wrangell Mts., AK HUNTER: Harry L. Swank, Jr. DATE: 1961
KEY MEASUREMENTS:
Length of horn: Right 48 5/8 - Left 47 7/8
Circumference of base: Right 14 5/8 - Left 14 6/8
Circumference of 3rd quarter: Right 6 5/8 - Left 6 7/8
Greatest spread: 34 3/8
Tip to tip spread: 34 3/8
WORLD'S RECORDS STONE'S SHEEP SCORE: 196 6/8 LOCATION: Muskwa River, BC HUNTER: L.S. Chadwick DATE: 1936
KEY MEASUREMENTS:
Length of horn: Right 50 1/8 - Left 51 5/8
Circumference of base: Right 14 6/8 - Left 14 6/8
Circumference of 3rd quarter: Right 6 6/8 - Left 7
Greatest spread: 31
Tip to tip spread: 31
John
Great looking Sheep!!!!!!! I would love to be able just to see something like that up close.
I can only type...........my jaws have come unhinged and my mouth is hanging open. What a Ram!
Funny on the toothpaste commercial crack.
Anyone seen the score on this ram?
I dont agree with paying the 30K to hunt. I believe it deprives a younger generation the right to hunt. But on the other if the guide operation has invested 30K in time, work, and money spent then he has the right to charge for it. I am more concerned on the profit made. Since when should we profit from animals god put here for us to harvest?
CONGRATS, I guess it's big I don't know what big is. Compare it to a Whitetail. Heard someone say top 10. Most be a monster, congratulations.
Myself I could give a rat's arse how something is taken...bow or gun. I like to see big animals!!! Congrats to whoever shot it.
tteel: The cost is the product of supply and demand, nothing more. The cost for anyone to stone sheep hunt right now is $30k or more. I can guarantee this one cost more. The hunter is a super guy and is finacially successful and does a lot of hunting. I'm sure he took care of the outfitter and guide to kill this ram. But you none of us will hunt stone sheep any where for under $30k. When I was growing up, a stones sheep hunt was $4,000 dollars, but back then, my dad couldn't afford to do it either. If you can sell your product for a big price......!
"Since when should we profit from animals god put here for us to harvest? "
since they started herding, and killing cattle for stores to sell you. same goes for chicken, pork, turkey's and some others.
relax there a bit. you are entitled to nada. you earn the right to buy food, and you earn the right to hunt.
it's not a right of passage.
serb
p.s. great ram.
Im not saying there should be no profit im saying it should be limited. I have no problem with this guy. I think its an awesome ram. My family has raised beef for our own consumption and to sell a little every now and then but we dont make that much profit. IMO I dont believe we have to earn the right to hunt by being successful in life, but we do have a choice of whether or not we want to hunt. Now if some wildlife department said we are going to auction this tag and all the net profit from the purchase of the tag is to go back into purchasing more public land and not into someones pocket then I would pay 100K for it.
Holy crap those are some hugr Rams congrats to the hunter no matter how the take method was.I can tell you one thing if I had the money I'd be hunting sheep too.
tteel,
"Im not saying there should be no profit im saying it should be limited."
OK, then when you decide to sell your house, I think your profit should be limited as well. Instead of letting you sell it for what the market will bear, I think we should have a government bureacrat decide how much your profit should be limited to.
How does that sound to you?
I understand where you are coming from and we agree to disagree. Im not saying my way is right nor do I want the government deciding anything about prices. But usually when you sell a house you are not making much money at it but really getting the money back that you invested into it but sometimes you make a lil back. What do you think about this, They do a silent auction on the tags then no one will know what the guy paid and then anyone can bid on the price of the hunt based on what the value of the hunt is to them. And personally I would like to see where the money goes from the tags. Does it go to buy more public land, improve habitat, CEO salary, lobbyist or what?
I knew where this thread would end up as soon as I seen the picture of the gigantic ram. The outcome is totally predictable and must be very frustrating to Pat. There is a lot of money involved in sheep hunting and the funds raised from the "big money" tags help put more sheep on the mountain for working class saps like me.
Roger
"OK, then when you decide to sell your house, I think your profit should be limited as well. Instead of letting you sell it for what the market will bear, I think we should have a government bureacrat decide how much your profit should be limited to.
How does that sound to you?"
I don't know Kyle, vote for Hillary and you might find out! Ouch!
Good hunting-
Michael
It really does not cost that much to hunt Stone I live in British Columbia. I will ride into the mountains with horses 1000 dollars and I will be in Sheep country for 2 weeks.
Total cost for trip I figure to be around 2500 Canadian Dollars. I can do that every other year. Like next year for instance. There must be stone sheep in the USA where you can hunt without a guide?
Lou353,
There are no Stone Sheep in the US, they are only found in BC and the Yukon and we are required to use a guide. The outfitters have a limited allotment of tags which has recently been reduce thus the increase in the cost of Stone Sheep hunts. We can draw and hunt Bighorn sheep and Desert Bighorns in the lower 48 and are not required to hire a guide but I have been applying in most western states for up to 17 years and I have yet to draw a tag. We can also hunt Dall sheep in Alaska but again unless you are an Alaska resident you are required to hire a guide which runs around 10K.
tteel,
You don’t have to earn the right to hunt but you do have to be successful to earn the ability to travel and hunt in distant places.
John
tteel- this was not an auction tag. He just hired the outfitter. They knew they had a big ram based on seeing him the previous year and Don was able to get the outfitter and his guides to find it for him. He paid what everyone else would pay. Right now that is averaging about $30K +. You would have and do have the same right to purchase that hunt. If there were only 1,000 white tail tags available for hunting in the US due to there not being that many of them, and you were required to use a local outfitter, whitetail costs would go thru the roof.... If you really wanted one. It's hard to understand unless you've been sheep hunting.
Yeah I hear ya vic. Some people are already starting to pay that with whitetails behind fences. I believe some places even charge by the inch for every inch over 150. I give it up to the guy 100% for killing a outstanding a ram and in no way do I want anyone to think that I am coming after him because I am not. But I dont really like the idea of the guide charging more just because he has a special ram located. What if he has a regular paying customer that just happens to see a giant ram does he say dont shoot it will cost you more?
I don't think the guide charged more, I'm betting the hunter paid more for additional service. IE, more guides than just one out looking. That's just a guess tho, I wasn't there.
tteel,
As Vic said the stone ram was seen last year and several people were aware of it. I knew that they had seen a big ram but didn’t realize he was that big. I don’t know when Don booked the hunt but he has been trying to shoot a big stone ram for awhile. A bowhunter was actually supposed to get the first crack at that ram but he was unable to go on his scheduled hunt. Realize that these sheep can just decide to pack up and move to a completely different area for no apparent reason so going to kill a particular ram is a very dicey proposition. I am sure that if someone else had run into the ram they would have had a chance to kill him; I don’t know any Stone Sheep outfitter that would say you can’t shoot that ram. If there is one I wouldn’t want to hunt with him.
The Kluane First Nation Dall Sheep permit is different, it is a permit given out by the Kluane tribe to hunt on native land in the Yukon that is not open to hunting. There were some big rams known to reside in this area so when the permit was auctioned at the FNAWS convention it went for $170,000. I don’t know how the proceeds from this hunt were used but Neil Thagard who comes to this site sometimes can probably tell us.
John
I dont know for sure but Im guessing that most of the money would go to the village and rightfully so. I would have no problem with that. I was checking out Bolen and Lewis website and it seems like they have a great deal. I mean you can get moose, 2 bear, and wolve, and sheep for 22500. That seems pretty reasonable. Although you are still penalized 1500 for being lucky enough to take a trophy. Anyways its a great ram wish I could hear how the hunt went down and hopefully the ram gave him a good tough battle.
Last year at SCI, I talked to Darwin Watson about their 175 Stone they took last year...he said there was a ram that was as big or bigger that they didn't get...when I asked about that particular ram, he replied "I already have that ram sold." To presume that Don got that ram for $30K is absurd...I bet it cost closer to $100K. Doesn't matter anyway, if it can be afforded, I'd do it too.
