Contributors to this thread:
What is your experience with over the counter elk scents, wafers, elk fire, etc.? Am I just wasting my money and making my self and area smell nasty? Elknut please chime in. (grin)
I have thought about this and gone back and forth.
As far as elk scent, I have smelled many elk before I ever saw them. Wearing it would take that away.
As fas as cover scents, if it helps so you can stand yourself, go for it. (The last time I went elk hunting, I went 17 days in-between showers!) I have also been busted on day 1 when I was clean. I don't think there is any amount of cover scent that can keep you from getting winded.
Hunt the wind and save your money. IMHO.
Agreed!! You'll never cover your scent. The wind is your best friend and greatest enemy. Save your $$$$$!!! UNLESS you're hunting from a stand. Some scent about 20-30 yards upwind of you could draw an elk's attention long enough to draw and shoot. On the flipside it could also give them cause for alarm making them bolt for the next county.
I use to think elk scents were a waste of money until we tried the cow in heat scent wafers (HS scents I think) Anyhow, we had elk come in down wind within 20 yards and just stand there wiffing the air and start walking back and forth looking for the source. It confused them long enough for a shot if we wanted to, but more importantly for the smaller bulls and cows, it didn't spook them enough to make them bark and take the whole herd with them. On another setup, I called in several elk that slipped between me and my partner. I sat there and watched a small bull stop right beside my partner and stretch out his neck to smell the wafer on his hat. My buddy sarted to freak so I gave out a faint cow call to draw the bull away. I thought he was going to get mounted (ha ha). They're convenient and less messy to fool with. No doubt staying down wind is the best policy, but how often does that bull cooperate and come in on the right side? Not usually, so it might just confuse him long enough to place your broadhead in the furnace.
If you put on elk scent then you loose any chance of smelling elk. Lots of times working a bull I smell him before I see him. If you have elk scent on you you can't smell him comming in.
The best smell for all hunting is to smell like nothing at all.
Greg, many years ago I experimented with them, (15yrs) & found they were no asset at all. In fact I found my self at times thinking I could buck the wind here & there just a tad! WRONG!!!! I'd get burned & eventually so will those who feel they can!
These days I don't regret at all not using them. They're simply not needed no more than the fanciest camo out there either! I hunt some of the thickest elk country there is here in Idaho & I can honestly say I've never gotten on any elk because I smelled him first, some of you guys must be part bloodhound!! (grin) Sure I smell elk from time to time but it just never has amounted to nothing more than they were there at one time!! Maybe my time is coming!!! (grin)
Watch the outdoor channel this week today That is Wed at 6:00 pm eastern time and Sun 11:30 am est time and watch some elk that were directly down wind of archers that did not spook because of the scent elimination system and the use of scent wafers. You can and will fool an elks nose, especially with the elk wafers, they are potent and they do smell like elk but you can still smell other elk while wearing them Ive done it. Get Primetime bulls 6 you will see elk rattled in, called in, fooled by scent elimination systems and more-we cant lie its on film and real, not just crap we talk about or think will work. Watch it for yourself. Al.
I think elk are like whitetail. You can reduce your scent "cone", but you cannot eliminate it. If you are directly downwind they will smell you. Thermals can do strange things. In other words you may think you are downwind when your scent is actually drifting up.
Al how are we suposed to know what way the wind is blowing on a tape. And Chuck Adams hated Mech Broadheads till they payed him $38000.00 now he loves them.
Al....I loved the video but hated the HS scents promo crap. Like when Dieter talks about a bull downwind and hits his powder bottle and it looked to me like the wind blew it a whole 'nuther direction. I understand its marketing and all but it was a bit much for me a couple times. I don't need to see guys spraying each other down and talking about how good the stuff works. At least not more than once.
GET YOUR SELF SOME VS-1.ELK HERD IN A STICK AND ELK HERD IN A BOTTLE.THE ELK HERD IN A BOTTLE IS A POWDER FOR CHECKING WIND.WORKS GREAT.THE STICK WORKS GREAT ON A DECOY AND JUST SITTING OVER A WATER HOLE.BEST SCENT OUT THERE.VS-1 ROCKS.www.bordercrossingscents.com.Check it out.
Most elk scents do not smell like elk. Like several have said wearing a elk urine you can not smell elk. I have smelled that elky smell just before getting into elk several times.
i just rub a lttle elk boo on me and away i go ....
City hunter nailed it!! step in rub on any elk crap you find. Best cover scent nature gives you for free.
I can honestly say I've never smelled any elk scent sold on the market that was remotely close to what the real deal smells like. I've been down wind of a herd on more than one occasion and was able to know where they were. Not necessarily where they are. I've actually used the saturated dirt from where they bed as a cover but thought it was almost too overbearing which dampened my sense of smell. Years ago Wayne Carlton marketed an elk heat scent that smelled like black liqourish. I've lost track of how many times I was busted by a bull that came downwind of me with a cover scent and an elk scent ie; waffers.
The scent wafers don't cost that much and are reusable year after year and I have still smelled other elk while using them. Like I said, I've seen them confuse elk long enough to get a shot if desired. I know one thing, they'll do me no good If I'm not using them and they certainly don't hinder my hunting. They don't eliminate your scent,just cover it and I don't rely on them and puposely wander up wind of the elk, but I'm personally convinced they help from experience. Take it for what it's worth. Not every situation is the same and not all elk will act the same toward the product.
when i used the scent wafers (dumped all my hunting clothes into a plastic bag with one of them elk scent wafers) i stunk like that stuff and could not smell elk except for myself lol...i dont use them anymore...about a week before the hunt i break juniper, pinon and pine branches, throw them into a bag with my clothes and go from there...
ps...my clothes still smells like them damned things, just not as badly as before =0)
Big D, I understand what your saying but the scent away scent elimination system works on elk, coyotes, deer, and bears. I wouldnt tout it if it didnt and I dang sure aint chuck adams, I will do a better job of showing wind direction while we film these critters and I will make you a beliver Big Dan. :) and hamrhead, get you an elk wafer and take a big wiff, I promise you will be thinking elk-but dont leave it in your wifes vehicle by accident it goes bad. good luck you guys, Al.
We have not noticed that much of a difference with or without. However, we don't use them for a different reason. 2 years ago, we tried the brown gel (can't remember the name) that looks like a shoe polish container. It was a strong scent, so strong that it pulled a cat within 15 yards of one of my hunting buddies. When we picked him up 2 hours later, he was still shaking!!
Watched the Show last night! Have Tivo, so I slow motioned where bull stood then slow mode the part where they used the puff bottle, the first puff was a good 15 deg to the left of where the bull stood, the 2nd puff was a good 45deg to the left of where the bull stood & started swirling around eradictly. A real good chance in my opinion from viewing it that the wind never went directly to the bull. Just my take, nothing personal!
I will say though that those were the poorest setups & calling I've seen in a while, those should've been dead bulls! Those hunters were rattled!! (grin) They needed to put those cow calls away or get truly aggressive with them with some stomping around. Better yet, a good believable bull scream where another bull was calling his cows form him & that bull would've came unglued in the proper setup!! That was no time for spike squeals. That McDaddy was one sad sounding bugle! Don't take my word for it, just watch the show yourselves & come to your own conclusion! Again, nothing personal as I've seen similar shows by others as well.
"we cant lie its on film and real, not just crap we talk about or think will work"
Your right Big Al if Primos says it works it must work. They would never Market something that doesn't work.
I'd like to see Primos have to hunt the areas I hunt and see how successful they are. It's amazing how quick you become an expert and professional hunter once you gain access to private ranches. All these gadgets and gizmos that you see in every Primos video wouldn't make an iota of difference on a public land general license hunt.
Its HS not Primos.......lol
Damn Paul...how do you really feel about it....LOLOLOL>
Guys, don't take it the wrong way! I wasn't getting down or bashing here! It's tough no doubt when cameras are involved, many times guys do things a bit different with their presence, but it was a bad display on several counts of elk hunting savvy! Especially when you take into account the area hunted, that was no general OTC tag hunt! By the way, those guys could've certainly used a Chuckler!!! (grin) Not to get away from the fact the wafer on their hats was a non-issue!
Those wafers smell like crap! I'd gag if I had to wear one all day.....................
This thread was about elk scents and I know with the scents Hunters Specialties produce along with the scent elimination process you can "smell invisible" and fool an elks nose. If you dont believe it thats ok too. I think anything that helps increase your odds in the field is probably a good thing. Its fun to video elk hunts and coyote hunts, its also hard to get it right. Both hunts that aired on TV were the only unsuccesfull elk hunts we had on the video we produced-mainly because they showed good encounters with very iffy wind. If you learned something from it yeah, if you didnt oh well, but at least it was captured on film to be scrutinized. Talk is cheap, show me how to do it better and I will learn too. I love putting elk, coyotes, deer on film because killing is easy, good video is hard to do. I would bet that I can call more elk in with a macdaddy than with any other production call, it is the easiest most effective elk call I have ever used. Yes I get paid to put elk and coyotes on film, I hunt public as well as private lands and I am hear to tell you that it aint easy. But get you a primetime 6 bulls video and you will probably learn something you didnt know about elk hunting, heck the bloopers alone are worth the price of admission and I promise there are no porches, fireplaces, or boring talk-its just elk hunting done right and sometimes it doesnt go right, but it definately is real. I love to hear what you guys think and we all know what oppinions are like. They are just oppinions :) Good luck and good hunting, Al.
Does that HS spray stuff ever get old? I have about 5 of the large refill bottles laying around and for some reason it doesn't seem to work as good as it did when I first got it.
Maybe I am just stinkier that I am older???
yes.....you figure out which question that answers.
Al my day pack still reeks of the earth and cow waffers. I recenlty took out my binos from the pack and realized both containers were open. Anyway, it now reeks of rotted tooth decay! I still don't believe that they smell as pungeant as the real deal. It's hard to explain but the closest thing to smelling elk is to walking into a room after ripped out a heinous growler! It kind of hits you like a brick wall.
Never bring a knife to a gunfight!! (grin)
When a company puts a call/bugle out it must take into consideration the users it's intended for! Al, you're a world class caller, you are not a good candidate to test it on, it must be tested & proved effective on the average or less than average elk caller/hunter, & a He or She! It should help an individual to sound better that he or she is, this is what people need & want for the most part. Practice is always a key element as to what an individual wants out of it, but the Bugle must do its part too. Bugles that don't have great elk tones to start with are not going to be attractive or practical to the user, most will lose interest quickly realizing a lot of work & effort will be needed to be even half way decent. On the other hand, give them something that excites them right off the bat & they can see serious potential in it & they'll put more time into it. Read this from a hunter who picked up a Chuckler & no I do not know him!
So I bought one of Elknut's new bugles called the "Chuckler". It seems that the amount of time he's spent in the woods listening to elk has paid off in spades. As part of the design process I think he was able to rule out the sounds that he didn't think were realistic until he found what he wanted to hear from a grunt tube.
The result is perfection in elk tones. I am a terrible bugler, but I have the benefit of experience chasing elk for plenty of years. This grunt tube sounds very real, and I have no doubt that it has made me a better caller just by virtue of a simple purchase. Look forward to seeing a bull taken with a bow by me this year, because now I finally sound like an elk!
For those that aren't sure how their bugle sounds or are on the fence about calling, this grunt tube is for you. Don't hesitate...just buy it. It's $30 very well spent! You'll thank me, and Elknut, with an elk in the freezer come September.
Now I really enjoy reading responses as this, I've received many emails that echo this one as well.
Paul, your wrong period. the macdaddy is the easiest to learn, easiest to use bugle on the market. And you can watch on video how effective it is just pick up a video and watch. Anyone can use it from kids to world class callers. It makes killer "elk sounds", I can lay 100's of success stories on you as Im sure you can, but Im not interested in a fight, you sell your calls and be happy Paul, I will look for a video with a bull being killed with a chuckler to see if it actually works, in the mean time pick up a primetime bulls 6 video look at the 10-12 bulls that were taken with a macdaddy elk call, and the use of scent elimination and ElK SCENTs in combination to get back on this thread. If you really want a cool sounding bugle put a macdaddy in a chuckler now that would be a good sounding bugle. :) Good luck, Al
This thread is a lot of fun. Here we have two of the foremost elk authorities arguing orer which call is the best. Isn't this a little like two fleas arguing over whose dog it is? Personally I have a lot of respect for Paul Madel and his advise. I have the Lil Chuckler and it has the best sound I have tried. Most of the grunt tubes I have have owned, are no better than the vaccume cleaner hose I cut up and covered with camo cloth. But to each his own.
Mnarcher, I will find out the shelf life for you and get back to ya. Hamrhd, get some scentaway spray and hose your day pack down with it, should take the earth/cow wafer smell out. Try it and let me know how it does. Swede, to each his own. The 680 + elk I have put a knife in didnt care if it was a vacum, oil funnel, water/gatorade bottle, production grunt tube either. And you will never see me badmouth anothers product, I just say what works for me and 1000's of other elk hunters that use Wayne Carlton Elk Calls. Good luck, Al.
Speaking of Wayne, what is he up to these days??
Enough about the calls guys. My mules hooves hitting rocks has called in a number of bulls too. Back to the scent deal. Years ago I tried using a cover scent on Western Mulies. I used SKUNK scent. You think that Elk urine makes a wife mad. I tried putting it to the test. I was able to put the sneak on directly up wind of 5 bucks bedded on a little knoll. I tried it because I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn in those early years and the only cover was a huge boulder directly upwind of the bucks. I was able to get with in 6 yards of the bedded bucks with no alarm until I stepped on a the tiniest of twigs as I transitioned to my feet for a shot over the boulder. A clean miss at a rising to the run buck at 6 yards. Point being, it worked. I figured out that skunk scent is an alarm smell to humans but not to big game animals. They smell skunks all the time and they know that it is a harmless little animal to them. It is natural.
As I progressed to ELK hunting. I use scents religiously, just because I need all the help I can get. I buy a cheap camo hat and dump Elk fire and cow in heat all over the brim, along with an Earth wafer attached to the back. ALL MY HUNTING BUDDIES HATE IT, cause they say I stink. Well I say the stinkier the better if it smells like Elk. It soaks in and eventually becomes a saturated wick of Elk urine. Sure it stinks, better than skunk scent though. As far as smelling them 1st. You will usually hear them before you smell em. And if you are still hunting slowly thru the dark stuff, you should be glassing and seeing them 1st too. I never just put my head down and "Stroll thru the Woods one day". As far as scents go. I will use them because they have worked for me, maybe it is just a confidence booster, but from what I read and hear from all you guys. You MUST have confidence in your equipment, setup and area. Oh, And I always try to stay downwind too. But you know those thermals. And I have had Bulls, cows and calves with in 3 yards of me directly down wind and all around me, they never spook till they see my chest moving to breath or they see my eyeball blink. Never had one try to mount me yet, but when one does that will be another entertaining thread. Good luck guys. And let's have fun doing what we think is the best thing on this earth to do. HUNT ELK! Whatever methods, styles or ways. It's all good. Just keep doing it.
My first elk hunt in SD. I would like to use a cover scent. Thought about the vs1, but not enough info on it. P.S. I use HS scent products and ELKNUT instructional cds and calls.
Great, now I have to but a chuckler, a MacDaddy, and PrimeTime 6 video to see who knows their stuff.
Me too WapitiBob! I just placed my order. One Chuckler, one MacDaddy, and one PrimeTime 6, thank you maam, and hold the coleslaw!
I know one thang, the scents won't work if ya don't have em wich ya. That's just plain common sense on scents, or somthing like that. I also know sumpin else, I wish I could make a living selling scents to sensible hunters, but that's just my two cents.
I know one thang, the scents won't work if ya don't have em wich ya. That's just plain common sense on scents, or somthing like that. I also know sumpin else, I wish I could make a living selling scents to sensible hunters, but that's just my two cents.
No Bashing here! I already mentioned that! It was a simple review as one can read anywhere on about "any" product! That's what's great about the Bowsite! You can talk about boots, calls, packs, arrows, bows, broadheads & the like, H&S bugles or ElkNut Bugles are no exception, they can get good reviews or bad ones. This will help out most hunters not to throw their hard earned money away on a product they know nothing about so ask about such things here. Simple as that!
As far as the Scent Wafers go in which the thread is about, they had no play at all in the video where the hunters were trying to say they were! Please go back watch it for yourself & do as I did & slow play it where the bull stood & where the puff bottle is being used, you will see with your own eyes that the wind was not going to the bull. Just look at the look on the guys face as he's saying it did, but the puff of bottle dust is saying otherwise, he has the look of his hand being caught in the cookie jar! Kinda like oh crap, it's not going the direction I thought it was?(grin)
Heh, it's no big deal, we all make mistakes, but to come on here & make claims that a product is doing something it isn't, well that isn't right either! While you're watching that please notice the calling & give us your expert opinion on what you see & hear. We all would appreciate very much to hear your honest evaluation on both matters.
Al we know you were not on the TV Show, why, don't know? But it was done for viewers to take note & do as I do if need be & use what I use, everything these days is an advertisement. The Show flashed on 3 occasions the Calls including the bugle being used, that's the only reason I knew what it was. One must look at it as a display of the product by true professionals, I'm not saying they weren't professionals but the bugle had a bit to be desired! Let us know? Have a great day!!
I've been away for a week and look what happens. LOL! So I might as well chime in.
Seems like it started out with scents and drifted on over to bugles and grunt tubes. I have tried both the Chuckler and the Mc Daddy. I know what the Chuckler will do in the hands of someone that can use a mouth diaphram. It is simply great. I also know what the McDaddy is capable of. My Pappy always said, "If you can't say something good about it, just don't say anything at all". So I'll keep my mouth shut about the McDaddy.
But apparently BAM thinks it is pretty good and it works for him. Some calls actually do work better for some people than others.
So I think I'll ask Al to enter the bugling contest at Scream'in In The Rockies in Grand Junction, Colorado next weekend. Come on Al, put your bugle where your mouth is and show us how good it really is. You should be able to do it. After all you get paid to sell them.
Good luck at Screamin In Th Rockies!
Get Primetime bulls 6 it is one of the best elk vids ever made it will rival any that have ever been put out. That said the macdaddy elk call is not going to win any contests but anyone can blow the call and anyone can call elk with it. Elknut I think you know what I think of oppinions its an everyone has one kinda thing, you dont have to be a world champion caller to use a macdaddy. If you havent blown one do not express an oppinion, if you have and didnt get the sound or tone u thought would call elk your wrong again, it has become my go to call. Again watch the video, I called a 370 bull to 40 yds and he was smashed with a muzzleloader. I think you can learn alot from some footage and I think some footage looks fake. All I can tell you is watch the video, look at the elk react or sometimes non reaction teaches you about scent control, that footage and calling was a real time real sequence of events by a former world champion and a guy that placed third in the world this year JR Keller. They might have been sounding week or small to get the elk in. you say it left something to be desired it makes me laugh because they still got the elk to come to the call. Might be a kick but call after all. Get the video, watch it and enjoy it, we had fun making it. Hey Elknut I will watch yours when you make one that shows me bulls coming to your calls. Have a good one, Al.
Al was the 370 bull a private land land owner tag in Utah? I orderd a Macdaddy call to see if I wanted to sell them in my shop after I got it and tryed it I passed on selling them. Calling in bulls on public land is a lot diffrent than calling them in on private land. And every Movie Star Bowhunter I see on the Outdoor channel makes me laugh when I see them spray down before there hunts. I hunt the old way by using the wind. It works for me but if you like to spray up its your business. have a good hunt.
Bigdan, my thoughts & most likely a hundred others thoughts as well? I was holding my tongue though, in not trying to fuel the fire! OTC Public Land elk is a whole nother ballgame! (grin)
WW--MulPwr, Thanks for your comments!
Quite the P!$$!n contest we have here.
I have never made a video nor call for sale, therefore I must not know a thing about elk.:-)
My 2 cents for Greg would be to save your money. As has been suggested before, if you feel the need to smell like an elk, rub the urine dirt from an elk bed on yourself. I have not found ANY scent that will mask my odor form Any game animal. I use the wind, scentless deodorant and anti-bacterial body soap. When I did use scents, I took chances with the wind and it never came to any good. It's a false sense of security and could rob you of a shot.
Better hunting through chemistry is no substitute for sound and proven hunting practices.
Big Dan, get the vid man, the 370 bull was on public land and he came to the macdaddy call. Like the 428 bull we put on video a couple yrs ago, we didnt get him killed but he was called in on public land with a mac daddy. Its not a pi%%in contest yet but If you boys want to put numbers down lets do it. Im feeling frogy, I have 18 bulls with a bow, Only two were killed on private land the other 16 are all killed on public land that anyone can hunt, yes I guided for 15 yrs on one private ranch and the numbers I guided are huge, but true. I have put my knife in over 680 elk, How many can you say Big D, what about you Paul, how many elk have you killed and guided. If you boys put a 100 down between you Id be impressed. Yes I make a living putting this thing we call elk hunting on video, but if you think Im a "movie star elk hunter" you fell down and bumped your head. Im lucky enough to do what I love to do for a livin, and not many can say that, Am I an expert, I doubt it .Im just luck, but I know what I have done on both private and public lands, I can getr done with the best of them, Im sure you all can too, but scent elimination, calls, heck the elk themselves are changing every year, Im just telling people what works for me and the scent elimination systems work, the calls work, get the video you wont be disapointed and I hope to banter with Paul and Big D and ww, and all you guys for many years to come because I like the elk forum here at Bowsite, it has some good guys that teach, direct and overall make this a fun place to spend a few minutes every now and then. Good luck this season, we can all use some of that. Al.
Al, I'm jealous. I wish I could make a living as you do.
We may never see eye to eye on calls or scent elimination but I agree that if it works for you, fine. Really makes no difference to me how many elk you've killed or what products you use to accomplish it with. I'm just glad we're on the same team, we're bowhunters.
If you need any full-time help with the vids,,,,,,,I'd like to apply!
AL a few more than you with my bow all on public land. I don't cont gun kills. Next thing we will be seeing who can pee the longest. You hunt your way I will hunt mine, I would never use elk scent. If thats how you like to hunt with scent wafers hanging from your ears who am I to say your wrong. Have a good hunt in 2008. I will be hunting elk in Az and Mt this year. I hope you drew some good tags.
I hope all the chest beating is done now...
Make sure to check the regs in your state. In New Mexico, it is legal to use cover scents but illegal to use attractants either on decoy/bait or person.
Use what works, hunt the wind. Anything legal and within ones own personal standards and will buy you one extra millisecond during a close encounter...by all means, use it.
For some this is probably entertaining! (grin) Others, well they most likely feel that this is a bunch of macho non-sense crap & it probably is. But when ones integrity is in question it seems that you're forced to respond or else you appear to be a coward or in the wrong. I personally don't care about numbers as much as some do, heck you could be a poacher for all I know & really stack them up, who would know? (grin) I'm not going to throw figures out there because it's not that important to me personally. Problem is, numbers many times is all folks look at & they judge you accordingly as to the fact do you really know what you're talking about. If you have few kills, you must not be able to back it up. And the opposite can be true as well. When I see ones come on here & brag I question their motives & what they have to gain. To some it's just their nature, others they just flat can't help it! They must have others believe they are Gods gift to the elk.
I'm not the best elk hunter in the world & I don't claim to be, but I do alright. I am more than willing to share all I know about elk & elk hunting, many have benefited by it & that really makes my day! My Son comes first in my life when it comes to hunting, I've never taken an elk before him, he's 29 & will be 30 in a month. I will say AL that he has you topped by a good margin as we can take 2 elk a year here & he has many times. I've called in everyone of his elk & he's helped call in most of mine. Our numbers would probably shock you especially if you feel 18 would hold up. I feel that 18 is a good number for anyone in a lifetime of elk hunting so please don't think I'm belittling you but you've forced my hand!
In our hunts & many others that we've helped over the years we do our best to help out & guide & direct others in the right & wrong ways to approach setups & certain encounters, bucking the wind is sacrilegious in our book, no scent blocking material can fool an elks nose, their survival depends on it & they are pretty good at smelling anything foreign in their domain.
We are privileged to help out 2 more Bowsiters this year, they know who they are & I hope to God we can come through for them, this has nothing to do for personal gain but we really enjoy helping others out, it's not a numbers game but we are very serious about putting elk on the ground. We go all out because it's something we love & have a passion for, it is never, never a money issue with us. AL, you cannot say the same thing, I know in my heart it's all about money with you whether you admit it or not!
Guys, never buck the wind & be the best confident caller you can be. And yes, understanding elk is a huge asset to ones success! Remember, not all encounters are calling situations!! I think it's time to move on!!!!
I am sorry to keep this thread going but I have to say this. Elknut has litterally brought the average guy out of the dark ages when it comes to calling and hunting elk. I have been with guides and "experts" that didnt know a quarter of what he has put into 1 tape. It has made all the difference for me. NO ONE ELSE has done that, regardless of quanity of kills.
As for filming hunts, I have friends who film for some of the "big names" I have also been on a few filmed hunts. It is no big deal nor is it difficult. I have been on professionally filmed duck hunts, whitetail hunts, and elk hunts. The hardest part BY FAR is finding a guy who will be as devoted to filming and you are to hunting. The only good ones are the ones who do not plan on hunting and do not have it in the back of their mind. To them the filming of the kill/hunt is their kill. Very few changes take place in the way you hunt. That being said, I have never gone on a "get it on film or dont shoot hunt" nor would I ever. That IMHO is where it stops being real and becomes a business.
Bottom line is this. For thousands of years, one thing has been a constant. Elk will smell you if you are upwind. No product or video will change that. As I said above, I do believe that one can reduce his scent cone. But if and elk walks up from downwind he will smell you.
Mulpwr, You are right in your assesment there are alot of cow rifle kills in there but I called them in or stopped them for a shot so I count them on the total. For a few yrs there in colorado a rifle elk hunter could by a cow tag for 25 bucks on private land, we took 185 rifle bull elk hunters they killed 167 bulls but they killed 178 cows I was credited with almost 180 of the kills myself in that one year, my only challenge was keeping a knife sharp. I will write one heck of a book someday as I have kept notes every year I have ever hunted elk, weather conditions moon phases, what the elk responded too, heck i check notes to see how it has changed over the last 20 yrs It will be a good book. Big dan, got Colorado, and New Mexico myself, and back to Utah to call in another giant for a friend of mine. Paul, I doubt you can shock me in anything, I wrote a full page rip you message but have decided not to post it. You my friend made it personal, and to use the words poacher, and do it for the money might be big insight to your personality not mine. I will let it die if you like, but if you ever feel the need I will banter on any subject anytime, I apprecitate your difference of oppinion it makes for good threads. :) Take care, AL.
This thread really stinks for me (pun intended)....two guys whom I consider my personal top two favorite "professional" elk callers/hunters are fueding on my favorite forum. Then Big Dan....another hero of mine....gets in the mix. It makes me sad.
I won't take sides. I think yoeach of you have your individual strengths. I'd consider myself a lucky man if I every got to hunt with either of the three of you....that would be the hunt of a lifetime for me. I go out of my way to read what you post hoping to learn something helpful about elk and elk calling/hunting.
Let's keep it cool. I suspect if ya'll met face to face over some coffee you'd soon discover you aren't so far apart on your view of elk hunting and calling......its easy to get off kilter when relying solely on posted notes on the internet. WAY too easy.
Having said all that....I agree that agreeing to disagree and be civil makes for good throught provoking threads..... I was not suggesting we all have to agree on anything....heck....some of you might be democracks....hehehehehe
Comparing apples to Oranges. Chuckler is a grunt tube. Mac Daddy is a complete call. Their target audience is completely different.
Every call sounds like crap when used by 99.00% of the tone deaf Elk hunters that are in the woods. However, the Elk really don't seem to care so there isn't much point in getting all pi$$y about the calls.
I like Ford, my dad liked Chevy, and I still talk to my friend who bought a Dodge.
Heck I just use my raspy ole hen mouth call and a length of vacuum hose with a string on it. I got 18 more feet of that hose if anyone needs some.. ;-)
I started this thread on Elk Scents. Man, talk about a "can of worms"! The dialogue has been great, thank you BOWSITE. Remember, whatever our opinions are about this call or that call, scents or no scents, they are just ideas. Any "attacks" need to continue to be addressed towards the idea, not the individual. Thanks for all the input, I'll save my money on scents and use any wind current, hopefully wind, to my advantage!
I'm starting to spend way to much time on this web site! How about this idea. The heck with McCain and Obama. ElkNut1 vs Big Al for President!
Holy heck boys. I love it when things get out of hand.
NEWS FLASH: These guys are'nt elk authorities. They're just guys who like to hunt elk and found a way to make some coin off those of you who don't know enough about elk to know better.
BigDan-I don't know you, you might be an elk authority.
Stillhunter-your an elk authority.
Cheers and good huntin.
"BigDan-I don't know you, you might be an elk authority."
Yeah, he might be. hehehe....
I didn't start hunting elk until 1993 so I'm still a rookie - and most likely always will be as I only get to be in the "elk country" 12 to 14 days a year.
On the other hand I've been whitetail hunting for about 41 years and do OK at it (I sure wish elk were as easy as whitetails).
As for using cover/masking scents - like a lot of hunters most of us start out using them until we find they just can't fool "the nose".
I do take showers in unscented soap and wash my clothes in unscented soap - then place them in a large rubbermade layered with pine bows.
The only scent I use is the scent shield spray (I have absolutely no affiliation with any companies what-so-ever)- I tried it and it's what works for me.
I spray it on my rubber boots then, if possible, find some loose dirt and scrape my boots around in it. I try extremely hard not to touch or rub up against any type of vegitation while enroute to my hunting location.
Good luck in '08
I too, have used skunk scent on deer and had it work many times.
Tried it on elk a couple of times and they spooked, go figure.
Have tried spray on "elimination" sprays and HS scent wafers. Had elk spook with both of those on.
I have a feeling that the scent elimination and scent wafers DO WORK when you don't have to walk very far. However, when I pack in to an area and walk up and down mountains for days in a row without a bath, and don't have rubber boots because they don't work for me in steep country, elk smell me whatever I use when I get upwind of them.
I really want to see a video of some guys who are in a pack-in camp with no showers who walk miles each day put on scent shields/wafers and show me they work, because they haven't for me. Please tell me what I am doing wrong.
Al, are you saying that at least 50% of the time when you use cover scents and an elk walks directly downwind from you personally (only personal experiences please), they don't spook? I am really trying to understand here if I am just doing it wrong or if these things only really work when you haven't really worked up a sweat.
If they really did work in a real elk hunting situation (sweat streaking down your body), why all the bad reports? We ALL would love it if it really did work. I dare say that every person posting here wished badly that they would work.
When scent wafers fool a Blood Hound, I'll buy a case. When scent Elimination spray fools a Blood Hound, I'll buy a case of that too.
"BigDan-I don't know you, you might be an elk authority."
And the sky might be blue!
Careful, BigDan is on the mend. Remarks like that might kill him if he doesn't laugh it off! LOL!
I will say this.
Using scents is over-rated and "hyped" just like calling. The concept sells products. Lots of them.
The best scent is no scent, and that is accomplished by not letting the elk get it. It is as simple as that.
The most successful elk hunters I know don't apply any scent, and don't run around the mountains bugling their heads off. And no, they don't promote themselves or feel the need to do so.
IdahoBH - your 35+ years qualifies you as an authority. Your harder on the elk population than the wolves are. Heck, we better get you some federal protection.
As with everything else in this wonderful world of wapiti bowhunting, there are exceptions to the rule. Some hunters will swear that building a small fire and making it smoke by adding pine boughs or sage brush will work…and I’ve seen it work.
I had another buddy, Evan, who’d take a rag with a knot tied on each end. He’s drench one end in cow-in-heat scent and pack it in a Zip-Loc bag until we got a bull responding, then he’d pull it out and stuff the unscented knot into his rear pant pocket. I laughed at him for putting it in the baggie because I could smell “her” through the plastic. However, later that morning I got a bull to respond, and out came that rag. We moved to within 100 yard with Evan set up 20 yards in front of me. The bull was young, and after coming into about 60 yards he circled downwind, and when that kamikaze-kid hit the scent stream he walked right to my bud like a fish on a string.
Late one morning I watched a herd of 42 elk, including a nice shooter bull, feed into a small stand of timber. After racing for an hour to get above them so the rising thermals would work to my advantage, I dropped my pack, took off my boots, and slipped into that timber. Some of the critters were bedded, and some were grazing a bit. I had no scent on, and was sweating like a NBA player, but the thermals were still coming up so I started to sneak towards them on the seat of my pants. I was focused on the bedded bull and moving really, really slow. Pretty soon I had elk all around me, and by all means they should have spooked but never did. Why, I’ll never know…
These three instances are all exceptions when compared to the bazillion bulls that have blown out of setups due to swirling winds, or stalks that ended early because the breeze shifted. Scents might work once in a while, or they may confuse that bull for a minute, but in my experiences if that bull, especially a mature bull, gets a whiff of you the party is over.
Dang pretty soon somebody is going to come on here and talk about that crap herd on a stick. The only effective thing is to use the wind nothing else. Damn I cant believe I finally agree with elknut on something.
Another question for some of you "old time elk hunters". Perhaps synonymous old timers :)
Have any of you tried this?
Place an elk wafer - or some other type of elk scent out then move 30, 40, 50, - or further - then go down wind and set up. (wallow, trail, edge of bedding area, calling, ect.)
BB - I know you set wallows a lot - do use any kind of scent control?
They do make products that are taken DIRECTLY from a cow in estrus, you "experts" should know that.
You can't get any more real, or have anything that smells more like a cow in heat, than piss taken from her bladder during the estrus cycle (well, maybe her scent glands, but you can't really bottle that).
Try putting some of that stuff on your wafers!
Again, there is a difference between masking your scent and an attractant. Bob, I think the scenario you describe is illegal in NM, not sure about other states.
I have put elk urine on a rag and placed it near my stand so the scent would be picked up by anything down tha draw in the morning or evening. I have noticed no measurable increase in elk traffic coming in. One time I had a fellow set up a stand in a tree right next to where I had set up. I thought, rather than say anything to him about it, I would discourage him from using "MY" spot. It was a week before the season opened, so I started urinating in empty one gallon milk containers at home. The evening before the season opened I took the two gallons I had collected in my garage and spread the contents liberally around his stand, around the water hole and along all the trails leading in. I figured whoever had set up right next to me would have a nice boring time sitting and waiting. After all he deserved the treatment I was giving him. He had even removed the ladder from my stand and placed it for his use in the past. Well the first day of season this rascal who has since become a friend, killed a bear from his stand. A few days later he shot an elk there also. I was sitting in my stand when this rascal/friend came in and politely asked if he could sit in his stand. I watched as he shot the cow and called to settle it down after it was shot. I am not sure what all this proves, but I have tried to find a reliable scent that would cause animals to avoid an area, like a water hole near by that I could not cover. Nothing works. The Forest Service has tried different things to protect their plantations and nothing seems to work for them either. On the other hand I have found no reliable way of fooling a deer or elk's nose when they are downwind of me. I have seen elk pass by the point where I thought I would get busted only for them to catch my scent at another point. I use Scent Shield and have over a gallon of the stuff on hand. I have a scent loc suit too. My belief is that these things help, but it is heresy to say you can totally fool an elk with these items. I have tried.
Animals have awesome noses. My bird dog has caught a scent, tracked a ways and locked up on a pheasant, all this with one in his mouth he was retrieving. Makes my jaw drop that he could smell a completely different bird with one in his mouth. He probably could tell if they were brothers or just cousins too. Maybe their names even, I never asked him.
I don't think elk have any trouble telling man scent no matter what you try to cover it up with. I've heard the same stories of elk all around down wind and not getting busted. But these guys no cover scent and hadn't bathed in a few days, believe me. I think sometimes the wind just isn't doing what we think it is. But if you're wearing something that is supposed to cover or eliminate scent and "shazam! That's amazing!" Human nature. I've heard folks claim their engine runs better after they change the oil. If you happen to sell a special oil that claims to make your car run better....even better yet!
Kind of like daily horoscopes. They can be wrong 10 days straight, but that one day the planets align and they are correct? "My gosh! These horoscopes are amazing! How do they do it!"