I look forward to reading.
I don't know how long you will be in Denver, but spend some time at the downtown mall area. It's very cool and will be a refreshing change of pace. There are a lot of stores there that probably have tons of stuff left over from the DNC if you have any money left for shopping. I think I remember seeing a big ole Obama rug somewhere down there.
Pat good luck and I look forward to the rest of the story.
Just kidding, best of luck to you man! You deserve it after all you do for us here, for what you've been through with Tut, and finally for waiting all these years for a mature bull. We're pulling for you!
Nick
Nothing against Pat ... he did everything right, and surviving something like that without injury is a testament to the athleticism of a non-rider. It's the wranglers who perhaps could've forseen something like that.
People have a tendancy to laugh at horse accidents. It's generally a mistake to do so.
Ken
I'm curious as to how well the elk bugled and responed to calling. I just returned yesterday from an 8 day hunt in Gunnison and they didn't bugle well at all. I know of 3 bulls and 1 cow that was killed from several camps near our area. 2 of the bulls were killed on state land by guys with 16 and 20 years ofexperience in that area and the 1 was killed on a private ranch. Not sure of the experience level of the gentleman that killed the cow.
We had 4 in our group and 3 of the 4 had encounters under 15 yards with cows and 2 of us had bulls within 50 yards but no arrows were released. I was just a little dissappointed at the small amount of bugeling that we hearing this year. Hope it was better in your area.
Lol that ole bitch!!
In 1992 we had an outfitter with horses. Was the best hunt I've been on. We covered lots of ground and found where they were bedding and setup above them the next day. My brother and guide dropped down a canyon and I walked the rim. They must have spooked them up, cause this pretty 6X5 came out of nowhere at 50yds. I was lucky and placed two shots(30-06) in him and he fell right there.
In 2005 we walked. Took most of the day to get to the area we wanted to hunt. Was tough. We're old and out of shape to go up and down 5 days in a row, so we fished the Conejos one day then hunted the next day. Seemed to work out good this way. That cold water felt good on the legs. Kinda numbed the pain. It was a great trip. No elk were taken, a few trout were caught. But being on horseback allows you alot more quality hunting time. We did happen to meet two of the guides from 92. They were with different outfitter, but hunting the same mountains.
I need to get up there this time of year. The rut was over with both times I've hunted there.
Some beautiful country and the Aspens waving at you will stay with me forever. Good luck. Pat
Lol that ole bitch!!
In 1992 we had an outfitter with horses. Was the best hunt I've been on. We covered lots of ground and found where they were bedding and setup above them the next day. My brother and guide dropped down a canyon and I walked the rim. They must have spooked them up, cause this pretty 6X5 came out of nowhere at 50yds. I was lucky and placed two shots(30-06) in him and he fell right there.
In 2005 we walked. Took most of the day to get to the area we wanted to hunt. Was tough. We're old and out of shape to go up and down 5 days in a row, so we fished the Conejos one day then hunted the next day. Seemed to work out good this way. That cold water felt good on the legs. Kinda numbed the pain. It was a great trip. No elk were taken, a few trout were caught. But being on horseback allows you alot more quality hunting time. We did happen to meet two of the guides from 92. They were with different outfitter, but hunting the same mountains.
I need to get up there this time of year. The rut was over with both times I've hunted there.
Some beautiful country and the Aspens waving at you will stay with me forever. Good luck. Pat
Pat makes no bones about hiring some guides in the past, and states right up front that this was a last minute hunt put together after the caribou debacle.
He uses the services of a guide to get him into good elk country, pretty smart for putting this hunt together on such short notice if you ask me.
As as far as a DIY hunt:
"We are hunting public ground, unguided, on an 'Over the Counter' elk tag."
qualifies in my book.
I suggest you don't read the following posts if it doesn't meet your criteria
I will slap you... You have never shot an elk so why are you going to pass up the little ones?!? Backstrap is too good to be doing that! ;)
what a beautiful place to be hunting though. i bet you go back just for the experience again even if you dont connect. just down the road you can pay 10k and shoot a 380 royal also.
OK, there's my rant...
Pat, I have had the pleasure of hunting the South San Juans on horseback, in a wall tent (and yes, with an outfitter- Oh, My!!!, How Lazy and Terrible of Me!!!) in 2003. It was a great experience. I had an opportunity on a 350+ bull. The wind swirled and we know the rest of the story. I also blew a stalk on the last day due to a rookie mistake....
I can't wait to read about the rest of your experience!
for others that don't know,most don't care doodly squat what some person other than themselves' definiton is.......
Mark no one said it was terrible. We wouldn't even be typing about this other that Pat posted a "Discuss our Semi-Live CO Elk Hunt". So we're discussing it.
Once again I'm not and I don't think anyone is saying it's terrible. I'd be happy to go on a hunt like that. It just doen't fit into DIY in my book.
For some reason I still hunt the OTC DIY Public, though, its still lots of fun.
Just curious where you guys got on your horses to ride out. Did you leave from Skyline or drive to a trail head (3 Forks, Tobacco Lake, etc.)? Glad to hear there's still a few elk in that country.
BTW, I've never hunted there but have spent lots of time in that country chasing trout. Hope it turned out well.
H
im not belittling pat for elk hunting since this hunt to me is a much more challenging hunt than any of the past elk hunts he has been on. i admire him for putting out the big effort both financially and time wise to attempt a hunt like this. i do enjoy his writings and think he should make more of an effort to go that direction then making minuscule statements like DIY blah blah blah. not many people can drag me along on an elk hunting story and he has. he is also in the most beautiful part of colorado to hunt in my opinon, i do have jealously at that. i am pulling for him 100% and know he already has his animal just by the way he set up the story.
alot of elk hunters want to be in the public land DIY successful category and very few can make the grade. it is my opinon the pinnacle of elk hunting with a bow. so if your not doing it dont say you are is my point, thats all, nothing more, i dont dislike anyone for it etc....... just my point.....
For you folks out west...a flatlander has a "sissy" type question.
Say I was dropped off by an outfitter like in Pat's story...what is the terrain like overall? I worry that I might be nervous about chasing elk and getting lost. This is BIG country compared to where I hunt here in MD. How doable is this type of hunt for someone who has never been west or in BIG country like this? I think it sounds like an awesome adventure but wouldnt know the first thing about running a camp like that or navigating in this huge wilderness. Are there precautions in place for emergencies?
"ran into a cow at 90 yards...and they ran away" "THEY were heading down toward us"
OMG......
I may as well start getting ready for next year.....so Pat...where we going to finally break your string....I'm thinking San Juans again. Make sure we have 2 weeks to hunt...I hate short trips!!! lol
good luck buddy!!!
serb
wanted to start a thread about Pat's "someone slap me" elk hunt. Talk about a way to turn a lemon into lemonade!
It sounds like you're into some good elk, for what is a pretty inexpensive trip, relatively speaking. Hope you tag out on a good one...anyone who would lose his luggage and then make an elk call with a toilet plunger DESERVES to tag out!
Oh..getting to camp...I live in NJ..I'm not a horseman either..sorry about your ride..hell, you're in WAY better shape than me if you can yell at the horse at 10,000 ft. I was sucking in air at 7500 in Wy. 2 weeks ago.
then when you get to a place like this spend time in those areas with great control and tend to push through areas where they arent. a key item i show all beginner bowhunters (im no expert) is to watch for dropping piles that would indicate how long ago they were there and what they are eating. acorns makes for a brown pile that drys very fast, grass and tall weeds tends to make for green moist piles that dry slower. this is of course during archery. then look for the best bedding area within 20 minutes ELK HIKE to this feeding area and you have a good start on where to set up. this will take the overwhelming feeling from your gut and give your hunt meaning, no time to be overwhelmed when you have somewhere to be.
im still thinking pat has one in the bag and this is his way of keeping us interested. its working. i do enjoy his short but sweet style of writing and not giving the outcome away.....
you definately need to be more active in following the elk though, easy for me to say while sitting at my keyboard and not up at 11k elevation.
Not sure why this is always such a suprise. There are an awful lot of P&Y bulls on public, OTC land.
I too, think that Pat has one in the bag. Nice feature.
Ken
I see no problem with Pat defining this hunt as DIY since the basic core of the hunt....the actual hunting....he is doing it himself with no guide...just a huntin' buddy.
In my personal view, drop camps such as what he is doing are just as DIY to me as if he had packed himself in on his elbows using handmade equipment only....from his front door of his house....or if he had driven up a FS road as far as he cared in his 4x4 then unloaded his 4 wheeler and road in to the point legal 4 wheeler access ended then hunted. What difference does it really make? Your personal satisfaction/goals/vision is all that matters when its your hunt. Give it a break.
But I suppose folks just like to argue and impose their world view on others around here......LOLOLOL
sheesh....
If I solo pack in 8 miles, call in and kill an elk, and call a packer to help me get the animal out, does this "Cancel" DIY?
As far as I am concerned, Pat is detailing his hunt and has nothing to apologize. He is upfront and to the point. You were in the great Rocky Mountains elk hunting, and most of the folks are wishing there were there. Pat could have made this thread debate free, and if this is what you have to beat to death, maybe he should.
I think this is what happens when guys aren't out hunting and wish they were.
Now Pat, I hope you killed something other than 7 days!
The world is going h*ll in a handbasket if I am the voice of reason!
LOL Z. That question could open a can of worms around here. 8^)
Jordan - "But I suppose folks just like to argue and impose their world view on others around here"
Well, it is an election year. LOL
Maybe the guys, who are concerned about it, should start a thread defining "DIY". I could care less what Pat calls it, it seems to be a good hunt and in my neck-o-the woods.
Ken
Oh....darn we're talking about horses here!!!!
I'm taking bets: Is Pat waiting for his elk to get processed? Or is he cutting it up himself since it is DIY? LOL
oh by the way, i just got off the phone with GW and he said DIY PL hunts can only be defined by a resident of the state the hunt under evaluation is taking place. so im in the good and all others out of state are wrong. if big GW bush says so then thats that!
i want to hear about how he got one down in that 1000 ft ravine and had to tug him up and out or drive all the way around to pagosa (have a beer) then drive back up over wolf creek and around to his camp.
My prediction,(Pat's update) Day 4 after a sleepless night we found ourselfs getting ready to go down after the screaming 5x bull, 4:00 a.m. man the stars were out and the milky way was shinning bright we followed our GPS to the point we were at last night.
Half way down we bumped something most likley a deer. I looked back and realized that Kent had stopped to take care of a nature call. Waiting for him I could hear this gutteral sound that seemed to be moving in my direction, in no time flat the air smelled bad and I turned on my flashlight to find I was face to face with a 7' hairy beast, I swear that had to be big foot. At that moment I had the warm damp feeling of pudding in my shorts and let out a yell. Kent lurched forward and fell over due to his pants being at ankle level. The big foot ran off and Kent just starting laghing at my story. After some gear adjustments we continued into the valley, hearing the bull bugling not too far below us.
As the sun started to break over the eastern horizon we could see the bull not even 100 yards below us, with the sun at our backs and wind in our face Kent let out the best cow mew I've ever heard.
The bull rounded up his cows and left the drainage. A small bull 4 x 4 that was bedded down (to our suprise) not even 20 yards away stood up. I set my pins and got a complete pass through on his vitals. When we get back to camp I'll take some pictures, it seems that we forgot to take the camera along.
Sorry Pat, after waiting all day for the next post and nothing else to do, i could not resist. :-)
Good luck I hope you connect
The near rodeo moments nearly brought tears. Horses always add a element of adventure, especially to non-horse folks. Without question, they know almost immediately when they are in charge.
big foot does live down there by the way. if he lives anywhere he lives there. that is some remote section of the world.
there is also gold still laying around in some of those streams. about 15 yrs ago a person found a thumbnail size nugget laying right in the stream not far from where pat is hunting.
big foot does live down there by the way. if he lives anywhere he lives there. that is some remote section of the world.
there is also gold still laying around in some of those streams. about 15 yrs ago a person found a thumbnail size nugget laying right in the stream not far from where pat is hunting.
Those rascals sure are persistent.
I agree whole-heartedly with Rock, when we get into the fourth quarter of the archery season tactics have to be adjusted. From experience getting in close is one thing, but getting in close and letting out even the softest and most perfect cow call can ruin a situation. I’ve been too scared to try a soft bugle, it seems by now the bull’s are finishing up with breeding, and fighting, and would rather move to another location when challenged, or follow his cow’s when they get a little nervous.
The elk have been pushed into secluded little pockets, the bulls have their cow’s, and the satellite’s are cautious, the group as a whole know where each other are and become alarmed when they hear a new voice. (unless they are on private property and have been hunted only by guides that don’t push the stock).
Now is the time to set up a game plan where you get between the bull and his cow’s, in a tight valley options are limited. Sometimes the best plan is to spend a couple days to get some sort of pattern established then set up am or pm ambush in an area where the elk pass through. The end of the season gets real tough as the weather changes and you find that through the entire day swirling wind takes over predictable breezes. This is the time I hope for rain, and bad weather, giving me an edge at getting a chance of a close encounter.
Pat has to mention how much the elevation and steep climb has taken some thrill out of day five, can’t say I haven’t been there before.
confusing.....:)
This has been a fun one to follow.
Enjoy the solitude, hunt hard, keep your nose in the wind, and enjoy yourself.....good luck.
Came back from a guided hunt 9-20-08 in the San Juans empty handed but learned alot and planning my DIY hunt already! I'm still high on the rockies! Now get on with day 7!
Came back from a guided hunt 9-20-08 in the San Juans empty handed but learned alot and planning my DIY hunt already! I'm still high on the rockies! Now get on with day 8!
So do we consider this day 8 pause a drumroll? Or a peck on the cheek goodnight kiss? Worse yet a handshake?
Come on Pat, invite us in for a drink! We're dyin' out here!
You stated:
"I made a conscious decision to leave the electronic gear behind. As I left my tent this morning the only thing I had with me was my bow. I craved pure freedom to move swiftly up and down these mountains and try hard to slip in on a bull. I did just that."
Any chance you bring the recurve out of retirement?
Thanks for letting us tag along.
Mike
You drew back on a bull and had a near encounter with the herd bull. Sounds successful to me even if your taxidermist is still waiting.
Maybe next year.
Ken
Thanks for sharing again,
iowaPete
I do love the Aspens... that third photo is moving!!
Greg
We hunt with sharp sticks for the excitement of gettin close and the challenge. Looks like you got a fistful of both!
Air currents in the mountains have sure saved the life of many an elk. Almost like they can control them. That's huntin'....
Thanks again!
I congratulate you for having a goal and sticking to it. I for one couldn't wait to get the first legal bull under my belt after hunting elk for many years.
If it makes you feel any better I'm now 0 for 6 with antlerless tags.
Great pics of some very spectacular country!
Come to Arizona, we'll get you a bull!
Nick
Did you see many mule deer?
when most archers learn that any elk with a bow on a PL DIY is a trophy they then learn how to and when to hunt elk. it is a mystical beast that earns ultimate respect.......
i think I forget that sometimes when I am thinking about antlers and get all crazy ......
lesson learned again or remembered ..thanks pat
Now what's this about an pig of a WT in PA?
I do not know Pat Lefemine nor dare to speak for him. Nonetheless, I have been in similar situations and empathize with the decision. I have taken plenty of elk. Currently I have a freezer full of game meat. I love game meat and serve it to non-hunters as a means of recruitment to show one of the benefits of my favorite pastime. However, I don't hunt for food. Fact is, I don't know anyone that does, certainly not like my wife's grandfather who did it as a means of providing food for their depression era poverty stricken family. I hunt for enjoyment and all of the conservation reasons associated with it. Should I be fortunate enough to draw an antelope tag in my home state, I will be hunting for a large mature animal even though I have never hunted for one before. Why? I don't NEED the meat even though I would certainly enjoy it. I would just assume let the youngsters go to grow into bigger, mature animals. I'm not just there for the horns, I am there for the experience and satisfaction of knowing that I outsmarted the biggest animal I could find, and I couldn't care less if there was any recognition in it for me.
It is not "horn porn." Pat paid for an out-of-state- otc Bull Elk tag and hired people to assist in his getting to an otherwise difficult to reach spot. This benefited Colorado's Game and Fish Department and therefore its elk herd. He injected money into the state's economy by providing income to an outfitter's family. And in the end, he set a standard for a wall hanger, and by not taking an animal, there is one more to grow bigger for someone else to enjoy next time.
Trophy hunting gets a bad name in part because we, the hunters, do not defend it for what it is (or at least, what it should be). By setting our sights high, we know that we may go home empty handed. While I know that herds need thinning for habitat management and genetic diversity; I am all for the less experienced, youth, those with disabilities, or the needy taking the smaller animals. Or anyone else that is a meat hunter, for that matter. I feel just as excited for some one else whether they took a spike or a 'Booner'. I have been fortunate enough to kill my share of the smaller animals and would now like to leave that opportunity for others. If that make me a bad guy, then that is something I'm willing to live with.
If I recall correctly, over half of the mule deer bucks taken in my state are spikes. Nothing wrong with that, I'm glad that people have the opportunity to harvest an animal. I'm not going to take one. Since at the moment I have a full freezer, I would not fly to another state to take a small animal and have to work through the logistics of bringing home meat when I have plenty in the freezer. In fact, in light of the recent addition of outrageous airline fees and restrictions, I would likely work out a deal with the guide/outfitter to donate it in the state I killed it in and just bring my hide and cape home (and the tenderloins, I'm not crazy). If I had the room at home, I'd make it happen.
All this is to point out that there are always circumstances deeper than the surface most tend to make their judgements upon. There is more to hunting than providing for the table, although that is a VERY important part. Size doesn't matter to you. Fabulous. Some folks don't want to shoot the first legal animal they see. If someone wants to hunt a critter in a manner that is fair and sporting, and his/her motivation is something for the wall, then that means more time in the field honing skills, enjoying the hunt, and observing animal behavior until, hopefully, the right one comes along and he/she is able to put it all together and connect. If it doesn't come together, then, as you said,"...it is the hunt that matters."
Everyone has their unicorn. I feel your pain!
Next year!
>>>>>--------------->
It's always great to take a mature animal. Some will never understand that idea 'of not killing something' when you have the tag! It's Not About The Kill....but The Hunt!
On the 'other side of the coin'....I could never understand why some go out and shoot a cow or a raghorn bull. I have passed up many hundreds of ELK... just because they were there, didn't make me want to shoot them. A mature big animal is all that drives me and some others....like yourself....and that is just who we are! No ELITIST about it....just a personal choice we live with.
"nmelk"...Horn-Porn?....well, it's NOT really that that drives us for a mature animal per-se'! It's just that the 'lesser animals' (than a mature one) don't hold a "challenge" that some desire and strive for. It's about The Challenge and The Hunt and The Memories. To go in and just KILL a animal is not about some Bow Hunters! Some just take it to a 'higher level' of self accomplishment and satisfaction........besides.........when you Kill One, the REAL WORK begins!..maybe some of us don't like The Work!.... ((*;
Pat I'm glad you had a great time and the opportunities to do what you strive for in YOUR LIFE! It's ALL about FUN! I think you've had TONS of That!
Good gawd.
Are you heading back to Kansas and Cimmaron this year? I always love the live whitetail hunt you do, and was wondering if we will be seeing another great hunt this year?
Northwoods
You mentioned no opportunity to get in shape for the hunt...
Do you regularly work out, stop for season, or.....?
If you had the opportunity what would you have done to get in shape?
dv