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Ozonics and Dr. James Kroll

PRINTABLE VERSION

EMAIL TO A FRIEND

Messages posted to thread:
Big Nine 26-Jun-09
Russ Koon 26-Jun-09
Dan 26-Jun-09
Genesis 26-Jun-09
Africanbowhunter 26-Jun-09
Gator 26-Jun-09
buckiller 26-Jun-09
Stealthman 27-Jun-09
keep 27-Jun-09
Target-panic 28-Jun-09
Target-panic 28-Jun-09
Target-panic 28-Jun-09
SteveB 28-Jun-09
Buckstopshere 28-Jun-09
huntmaster 28-Jun-09
Genesis 28-Jun-09
Target-panic 28-Jun-09
Buckstopshere 28-Jun-09
mnbob 28-Jun-09
Target-panic 28-Jun-09
Target-panic 28-Jun-09
buckiller 28-Jun-09
mnbob 28-Jun-09
Genesis 28-Jun-09
Buckstopshere 28-Jun-09
Target-panic 28-Jun-09
Genesis 28-Jun-09
keep 28-Jun-09
keep 28-Jun-09
pappy 29-Jun-09
tonyo6302 29-Jun-09
Target-panic 29-Jun-09
SteveB 30-Jun-09
Earl E. Nove....mber 30-Jun-09
Target-panic 30-Jun-09
petedrummond 30-Jun-09
JayG 30-Jun-09
Big Nine 30-Jun-09
Genesis 30-Jun-09
Stekewood 30-Jun-09
Jaybee 30-Jun-09
Target-panic 30-Jun-09
Big Nine 30-Jun-09
Titan_Bow 30-Jun-09
Big Nine 30-Jun-09
Big Nine 30-Jun-09
Dennis Fink 30-Jun-09
Genesis 30-Jun-09
Beendare 30-Jun-09
Dennis Fink 30-Jun-09
Genesis 30-Jun-09
Dennis Fink 30-Jun-09
SteveB 30-Jun-09
Ironbow 30-Jun-09
Dennis Fink 01-Jul-09
SteveB 01-Jul-09
mnbob 01-Jul-09
Stekewood 02-Jul-09
longbeard 02-Jul-09
cbeard64 02-Jul-09
buckiller 02-Jul-09
buckiller 02-Jul-09
Genesis 02-Jul-09
Big Nine 02-Jul-09
longbeard 02-Jul-09
Stekewood 02-Jul-09
Genesis 02-Jul-09
mnbob 02-Jul-09
pappy 02-Jul-09
Dennis Fink 02-Jul-09
Stekewood 03-Jul-09
petedrummond 03-Jul-09
David Alford 04-Jul-09
David Alford 04-Jul-09
tripler 15-Nov-10
let'em grow 10-Dec-10
Beendare 10-Dec-10
leftee 11-Dec-10
Picher 11-Dec-10
Picher 11-Dec-10
kellyharris 11-Dec-10
snapcrackpop 12-Dec-10
stikbow26 12-Dec-10
JayG 12-Dec-10
Videos
Put Your Video Clip Here!


From: Big Nine Date: 26-Jun-09

Big Nine's Supporting Link

Watch this link and let me know your thoughts. I am usually a pretty big skeptic when it comes to this sort of thing but Dr. Kroll seems convinced. Anyone have any experience with these ozonics units?

From: Russ Koon Date: 26-Jun-09
No experience with them.

The experiment seems to prove that they do have some effectiveness.

However, unless you are just interested in your stinky shirt getting close shots when it goes hunting by itself, there would seem to remain the question of how effective the unit would be when there's human inside the shirt, exuding his own stinky breath and other smelly evidence of his proximity.

From: Dan Date: 26-Jun-09
I have wondered about them for years as we use this technology in our home. As far as home tech, it is amazing. You can take a rag soaked in ammonia- place it in front of the unit and the odor is gone in just a minute or so.

It is similar to what occurs after a fresh rainfall moves through- the air is fresh and clean.

Funny- I have wondered for a long time about using it to cleanse my clothes in the evenings. I will bet it works to de-scent clothes. Now, if there was a way to de-scent a human being you would be unstoppable!

From: Genesis Date: 26-Jun-09
Unfortunately the weight I apply to Dr. Kroll and several other biologists commercial affliations counters their knowledge for zipola influence in what they say.....

I'll let truly independent testing take hold before concluding.

From: Africanbowhunter Date: 26-Jun-09
It works I have one OZONICS and its great

you can clean and purify your gear the night before for better effectiviness at home and then us it in the field.

Tink

From: Gator Date: 26-Jun-09
I have no opinion on this Ozonics but having spent a good bit of time having Dr. Kroll evaluate a software program (deer management)I developed some years ago leads me to believe he's sincere in his opinion. He was fair but very critical in his testing. Will be interesting to learn more about this product.

From: buckiller Date: 26-Jun-09
I believe the guy... Anone who knows didly squat about air purification knows that it is a proven science... That's why the air purification business is booming.

From: Stealthman Date: 27-Jun-09
You could always just play the wind and save your money to go hunt Iowa or Kansas!

From: keep Date: 27-Jun-09
I saw it work 1st hand in Quebec while bear huntung this year. One of my buddies set his gloved hand in a big pile of rotten moose meat. Not kind of rotten, disgustingly rotten. He brought the gloves back to camp via the back of the truck. He left them on the porch and we were going to get him to throw them out because you couldn't even walk by them without erping. We had a guy hunting with us that was on their staff. He took those gloves and put them in a bag and that machine blowing into it for a few hours and you couldn't smell a think except a hint of ozone. I'm not sure how it would work in the field but after what I saw I'd be willing to try.

From: Target-panic Date: 28-Jun-09
Hello Fellow Hunters,

Thanks for the interest in the Ozonics Scent Control Technology. The science is proven and is around you everyday. I have personally been part of the Ozonics experience since the beginning days. So, for the past several years, I have been fortunate enough to the HR-100 in 100's of encounters with wildlife. Preditors, Pigs, Javelina and Whitetails. I would be glad to help answer any questions about the product and it's use.

Hi, Tink. Glad to see you still kicking. Stop by our booth, at the next show and I will explain how to really use the product. If you are only using it on your clothes you are only getting a minor portion of the power of Ozone.

Attached is a link to a great conversation with the folks of another forum. Feel free to check it out. I don't get anything in return if you do, I just think, there are some great questions.

You can also check out hours of video on the Ozonics website. www.ozonicshunting.com

Thanks again, Russell Davis Team Ozonics Prostaff

From: Target-panic Date: 28-Jun-09

Target-panic's Supporting Link

here's the link:

From: Target-panic Date: 28-Jun-09
There are thresholds for most anything. OSHA and the EPA have indoor threshold, for which the Ozonics product is designed to meet and the Ozonics is an outdoor product.

If you have ever been in a Mcdonald's, many hospitols, or even the casino's around the country, you have Ozone generators in them ans well as many houses, across the country and the world. Ozone is present in the air around you 24/7. Cargo ships utilize O3 in their holds to protect perishable from bateria. The little blue light at your favorite childhood barber shop, was/is an Ozone generator, killing the bacteria off of the combs. Most barber's I ever met live to be a ripe old age.

The half life of Ozone is about 20 seconds, at which time it turns back into O2, the life sustaining substance we breath. It is true that O3 is a powerful oxidizing agent, more 150 times more powerful than chlorine. This is what makes it soo efffective.

The most effective and safe use of the products by Ozonics, does not have you breathing it at all.

Thanks Woody, for your concern, we are not out to cause ill effect too anyone. Education is the key to anything we use for our benefit.

From: SteveB Date: 28-Jun-09
Just see they dropped the msrp from $600 to $300. Means it was way overpriced to start with and they hoped to make a killing. Also trying to sell the benefits of an invisible curtain (impossible to document) is shady at best. Ozone is a highly effective sanitizer safely when used in a controlled enviroment - which outdoors in a treestand is not.

Not the kind of company I will do business with.

Stevebny

From: Buckstopshere Date: 28-Jun-09
Taken from the EPA website:

The first sentence makes a lot of sense.

"The same chemical properties that allow high concentrations of ozone to react with organic material outside the body give it the ability to react with similar organic material that makes up the body, and potentially cause harmful health consequences. When inhaled, ozone can damage the lungs (see - "Ozone and Your Health" - www.epa.gov/airnow/brochure.html). Relatively low amounts can cause chest pain, coughing, shortness of breath, and, throat irritation. Ozone may also worsen chronic respiratory diseases such as asthma and compromise the ability of the body to fight respiratory infections. People vary widely in their susceptibility to ozone. Healthy people, as well as those with respiratory difficulty, can experience breathing problems when exposed to ozone. Exercise during exposure to ozone causes a greater amount of ozone to be inhaled, and increases the risk of harmful respiratory effects. Recovery from the harmful effects can occur following short-term exposure to low levels of ozone, but health effects may become more damaging and recovery less certain at higher levels or from longer exposures (US EPA, 1996a, 1996b).

From: huntmaster Date: 28-Jun-09
Look up gasoline, diesel or many other common items on the EPA website and it will say the same thing. I don't see anyone getting up in a tizzy about pumping gas at the pump. The reason being, if you put your mouth over the can and inhale, it will cause you problems long term, if used properly it is fine. I would assume Ozone is the same way. Heck, don't let me bring up the chemicals in cigarette smoke and we let people do that everyday.

I don't know a thing about Ozone, but I just hate it when people read the worst thing on the internet that they likely don't know anything about and post it like its gospel...Oh wait a minute I have to call the 1-800 number on TV about the asbestos I was exposed to last week changing my brakes. America take a break.

OK, I'm off my soap box now. :)

From: Genesis Date: 28-Jun-09
There gonna need the $600 price point to keep the chum out of the water....

From: Target-panic Date: 28-Jun-09
Woody,

The PHD Chemist (Part-Owner of Ozonics) has the data you ask for. I am just one of the hunters. I am not sure that he would share the data of this pateented product. The unit is battery operated and will run down, before reaching the indoor limits are reached.

As for the humidity, the unit was developed and extensively tested in the Texas Gulf Coast, one of the most humid places in the country. We have not experienced any recordable lose of effectiveness.

It is not suprising to see or hear all the nay sayers. The Ozonics product is deferent than any other product that you have been screwed by before. This makes it difficult to get the proper price point in the market. If you have never been part of being a product to market you can make an intelligent comment on the subject. You will see this product on the outdoor shows, more and more. It is not a required piece of equipment, I was a very successful bowhunter prior to being a part of the organization.

Also from the EPA website:

What is ozone?

Ozone is a gas composed of three atoms of oxygen. Ozone occurs both in the Earth's upper atmosphere and at ground level. Ozone can be good or bad, depending on where it is found;

Good Ozone Good ozone occurs naturally in the upper atmosphere, 6 to 30 miles above the Earth's surface, where it forms a protective layer that shields us from the sun's harmful ultraviolet rays. This beneficial ozone is gradually being destroyed by manmade chemicals. When the protective ozone "layer" has been significantly depleted; for example, over the North or South pole; it is sometimes called a "hole in the ozone."

Bad Ozone In the Earth's lower atmosphere, near ground level, ozone is formed when pollutants emitted by cars, power plants, industrial boilers, refineries, chemical plants, and other sources chemically react in the presence of sunlight. Ozone at ground level is a harmful air pollutant.

Where does ground-level ozone come from?

Ground-level ozone is formed when nitrogen oxides (NOx) and volatile organic compounds (VOCs), such as xylene, react in the atmosphere in the presence of sunlight. NOx and VOCs are called ozone precursors. Motor vehicle exhaust, industrial emissions, and chemical solvents are the major sources of these chemicals. Ozone pollution is a concern during the summer months when the weather conditions needed to form it - lots of sun, hot temperatures - normally occur. Although these precursors often originate in urban areas, winds can carry NOx hundreds of miles, causing ozone formation to occur in less populated regions as well. ======================

From: Buckstopshere Date: 28-Jun-09
A key thing about the credibility of information is the source. Any knucklehead (myself included) has opinions and posts on the internet.

This is still a free country. Smoke 'em up or strap a ozone machine to your body, whatever.

I just thought information from a knowledgeable source might be a metaphorical breath of fresh air.

From: mnbob Date: 28-Jun-09
target-panic:

How would this help eliminare the secnt trai that is left on your way to a stand. Would be happy to test the product with a bloodhound to see if it really helps in eliminating odor that we leave in the woods and /or that is given off by dead skin cells that we are constantly sheding ?

From: Target-panic Date: 28-Jun-09
Mnbob,

The testing with hound has been done with several government agencies, data and finding have not been released to the publish yet.

There are no absolutes, however, if you run the unit on the way to the stand, the O3 settles on the trail and every particical it comes in contact with it will begin or completely oxidized / elinimnate.

From: Target-panic Date: 28-Jun-09
Woody,

Sorry you are not going to be a customer.

From: buckiller Date: 28-Jun-09
Either Woody is a real nit- picker or Ozonics will be paying out some serious cash to sick customers (if the company makes it).

I wonder which will be discovered 1st?

From: mnbob Date: 28-Jun-09
TP

Which goverment agencies ? What did they test for. Why hasn't it been released ?

From: Genesis Date: 28-Jun-09
"Either Woody is a real nit- picker or Ozonics will be paying out some serious cash to sick customers (if the company makes it)."

How bout both? :)

Seriously,customers won't have to be even legitimately sick to cause grief for this company I'm afraid.

The mountain of personal hunting ethics hasn't been scaled either if it's as effective as advertised.

Sorry for the negativity.

From: Buckstopshere Date: 28-Jun-09

Woody: Your credentials and experience in this area of technology are very impressive. Thank goodness! Thanks! And I still haven't found a better head than a Snuffer. ;0)

I only have a Masters Degree in the School of Hard Knocks, but am able to calibrate and read this machine a No-Sh!t-o-meter...and I hooked it up on this Ozone Machine Thread and it appears that because your questions have not been answered, that it's reading is a nine out of ten.

From: Target-panic Date: 28-Jun-09
Please forward any un-answered questions to:

info@ozonicshunting.com

I will let the Chemist answer your chemistry questions and concerns. I have a design engineering background. I know that the Ozonics Unit is designed with in the law. I am not hear to BS anyone. The technology works beyond belief. The company's that are comming on board over the next months have had some of the same concerns as Woody and others. They have been satisfied or satisfied themselves. There are great many comments that could be made about all of the questions, but due too contractual agreements of these companies, these comments are not for the public ear. Sorry. I would love to share all the things this technology can and will do, but I can't.

WS, as for as your boss having two of these units to use in a ground or box blind. The directs for use on the website and what talk about at ever hunting show across the country. place the unit above you and blowing in a down wind direction. This will allow the O3 to actively serch out and detroy the scent molecules that escape from your body. You could even place in blow out the exit window, as I would do in a box blind set-up, also very effective with a pop-up. Heck, I would be glad to show him how to use them.

Do your own research and make-up your own mind. more research areas on O3 use in your environment, check Ionic Breeze and EcoQuest.

The use of O3 to purify our environment has been around since 1910 and there are limits established to protect consumers.

Mnbob, it's the government, what dod you think the test were. Basically, it comes down too, your testing of the unit is not required for proof of the function. Buy one from Scheel's Sporting Goods, do the tests you want. If you don't like it. They will take it back for a full refund.

From: Genesis Date: 28-Jun-09
"I would love to share all the things this technology can and will do, but I can't."

Killing me notwithstanding....:)

We are a tough crowd today...

From: keep Date: 28-Jun-09
Target Panic I'm sorry I even forwarded you this link so you could give the guys some info. I shouldn't have dragged you into it after seeing how it was going but I thought these guys would want what ever info you had. Usually this site isn't such a groin kick. Typically if someone doesn't like something they say their peace and move on. I guess we are getting a bunch of AT'ers over here.

From: keep Date: 28-Jun-09
Woody This has always been the place I could just come and read posts and everyone was here simply to help and impart their knowledge. It hasn't been like some of the other combative sites I can tolorate breifly. Here I can enjoy, learn and decompress without my blood pressure going up. Bowsite has seemed overtly helpful so long as it's not a caribou thread about a certain outfitter. I hope this site doesn't get that way Jim

From: pappy Date: 29-Jun-09
PLAY THE WIND

From: tonyo6302 Date: 29-Jun-09
Target-Panic,

I have a legitimate question for you after surfing your website.

How can the average hunter tell when the unit malfunctions and no longer produces ozone?

I don't want to hear that it is because the hunter stops seeing deer.

How can a hunter test the unit at home. This is very important if you are trying to get me to shell out 300 dollars. Hell, I still hunt with a Bear Whitetail Classic!

Tony

From: Target-panic Date: 29-Jun-09
Tony,

The grid can be seen from the front of the unit. The grid emits a purple glow. If this is happening O3 is being created.

Also, O3 has sweet smell. If you have been outside when a thunderstorm is coming, The "smell of rain" as I refer to it, is O3. The O3 is pushed down by the downburst of the circulating winds of the storm.

The HR-100 unit also has a battery life meter as well.

Thanks for your question, TP

From: SteveB Date: 30-Jun-09
Legitimate question Woody.

I see no way the unit could be powerful enough to meet the claims of open air scent control(walking to or in a treestand) and not build dangerous levels in an enclosed area - especially a small one like a blind.

Please keep Mike from using his other then for schock treatment of his gear, until the company can address your questions with science.

SteveBNY

From: Earl E. Nove....mber Date: 30-Jun-09
From following this thread and a bit of amateur research, I will say it probably works for treating your laundry, but doubtful it's big enough to handle the human body and it's ability to create odor. If it was, it wouldn't be healthy to be around. As for the Dc. test? Probably honest results as it was tested, just not a real world test.

From: Target-panic Date: 30-Jun-09
Woody,

As stated previously, please send all of your qustions to

"info@ozonicshunting.com"

I can not provide the data you request.

TP

From: petedrummond Date: 30-Jun-09
First of all I believe that almost all this scent control is bunk over and above washing yourself and clothes in scent free and wearing a wrap around scent blocker face mask to contain breath odor which I feel is the key. I will try out the "smootchies" this year. I also have scent free gloves and boots. All these scent free pants, shirts and jackets prevent scent that wasn't there to begin with.....like running the shark patrol on the Mississippi. Having said that the test as run by Dr. Kroll for ozonics fails for 2 reasons: 1. the most critical element, human breath is missing. Its probably ok for de scenting your clothes in a closet but the spray ons and scentless soap does that too, only low tech. 2. The sampling was statistically too small with only one test and one "control". By the way if the deer avoided the non ozonics "control" because of scent alone why did they return at night?

From: JayG Date: 30-Jun-09

JayG's Supporting Link

Any thoughts on this little dealy? I figure that anything that sheds molecules can't be good for you.. Jay

From: Big Nine Date: 30-Jun-09
Woody...did you contact the right people yet? Please do and then post back...but unitl then...chill. Target doesn't have the anwsers your looking for. I am curious to see what you find out but only if you e-mail the link Target asked you too. Until then your ranting is getting real old! When I started this topic I sure didn't think it would get to this...wow!

From: Genesis Date: 30-Jun-09
I don't think Woody need chilling.I think Woody needs to be thanked for the objectivity to scrutinize a product.

Scrutiny that doesn't attack anything about what the product claims just the safety and precautions of the product.

Maybe wheelchair sales would be lower if "the public" had asked about providing safety harnesses from the beginning.

From: Stekewood Date: 30-Jun-09
I agree. Woody raises legitimate concerns, and has done so respectfully. I would like to hear the answers as well.

As for the test, there was no human there, just a shirt, so if it's to be believed, it proves deer did not spook from a human shirt next to the unit.

I can tell you from trying to keep deer out of my garden that a scent laden shirt has little effect on a determined deer, so I'm not sure how much the test proves.

From: Jaybee Date: 30-Jun-09

Jaybee's Supporting Link

Now I know that ozonics may be a sponsor and all but I deal with ozone generators every day in my line of work at a pharma company. We must use supplied air when we are running a ozone generator also have ozone destruction units at the vents of our reactors. Now I usually am all for technology and all but I have to say that there is not a deer worth your health. To me this is more dangerous than getting into a tree stand without a safety harness. Here is a link to the epa. I love Dr. Kroll and really respect him. I am sure that this works but it in not worth it.

From: Target-panic Date: 30-Jun-09
To all concerned, at the time of my inquiry, no questions had been posted to the Ozonics Email. I took questions and comments to them directly. Here is the reply:

The Ozonic Products are manufacturer and tested to met or exceed the standards set forth by our Federal Government (see OSHA, EPA and FDA websites).

Since we do not the true origin of the request for technical information, we do not if it is wanted for nefarious reasons. To our knowledge, there has NEVER been a recorded incidence of death or injury due to Ozone and we checked. The gasoline in your car is more dangerous. ===================================================

Perhaps, the how to use data is too simplistic on the Ozonic web page. We thought that pictorial on the home page would be enough. We are clearly in need of more data and this will be worked on.

Here are some numbers from the EPA webpage to review.

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires ozone output of indoor medical devices to be no more than 0.05 ppm.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) requires that workers not be exposed to an average concentration of more than 0.10 ppm for 8 hours.

The National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) recommends an upper limit of 0.10 ppm, not to be exceeded at any time.

EPA’s National Ambient Air Quality Standard for ozone is a maximum 8 hour average outdoor concentration of 0.08 ppm

==================================================== As for all of the opinions of it working or not. I can only offer my experiences. The Team Ozonics guys have been hunting with the product for 4 years, with the wind blowing in the direction of our big game targets. We can not say we have not been busted, but when we do it is rare. We gather the data and try to determine why and eliminate the reason why from the equation.

Thanks for reading, good hunting. TP

From: Big Nine Date: 30-Jun-09
I also contacted them directly and here is the reply I got back. Pretty quick turn around I would say. Woody I am really surprised you didnt get an awnser?

Their response is below in quotes...copy and pasted to this page.

"I've copied my partner Peter (Phd chemist) as he may have additional input." "Does it work? 1) There are over 1100 patents in the US system identifying ozone as a purifying agent in air, water and food. Those patents would NOT be there if the technology was ineffective and most are being used every day for multiple purposes that touch the public. For example, ozone is used EVERY day to transport foods and to clean air and water, but the public is not concerned because it is safe. Regarding ozone safety 1) The simple response is, "The federal government via OSHA, the EPA, and the FDA set standards for EVERY compound consumed by humans. Ozone is listed and the HR-100 meets or exceeds these standards." These standards ALWAYS state the "dangers" as a requirement. For example too much water and you drown. Ozone i's safe for human use, and it is being used every day by business, government, etc with ZERO complaint by the public. People contact it in some manner almost every day and do not realize it (for example vegetables and fruits are treated with ozone during shipments and are eaten without fear or knowledge of its use by the public). 2) Over 2000 hunts to date... no safety issues, only one complaint, "I didn't like the smell of the ozone"."

From: Titan_Bow Date: 30-Jun-09
This is the best quote on this whole thread: "The Ozonics product is deferent than any other product that you have been screwed by before" LOL

From: Big Nine Date: 30-Jun-09
and you didn't get a response from them?

From: Big Nine Date: 30-Jun-09
Try sending it again today...I sent an e-mail and got a response right away....interesting....maybe the ppm is confidential and they can't share that info....I am guessing it can't be anymore than the FDA, Osha, EPA, or NIOSH allow otherwise they wouldn't be approved by them right?

From: Dennis Fink Date: 30-Jun-09
With respect, regarding an Ozonics response to Woody's e-mail. I would ask Mike Sohm to read his e-mail. The response was sent at 8am this morning CST. I also called, but was unable to get though as no one answered the phone. We have not received an e-mail from Woody to our knowledge.

Woody, feel free to contact us at 979-285-2400 with your questions. We would be happy to address your concerns.

We provide a standard response to the ppm output question. It took us two years in the lab and in the field to determine this number so we do not give it away considering it business confidential. Dr Pepper does not provide its recipe either.

Below is how I responded:

Hi Mike,

Thanks so much for the business!

We am sorry, but the information you requested is business confidential.

If your desire for information is safety related please know that all Ozonics products are manufactured and tested to meet the federal guidelines for human "consumption" of ozone. Refer to the websites for OSHA, the EPA and the FDA for more details.

Please feel free to contact us at 979-285-2400.

Our best for GREAT hunting,

Dennis for Ozonics

From: Genesis Date: 30-Jun-09
Some data showing ppm in groundblinds with various ventilation techniques would be fantastic to make an informed decision against those standards set by OSHA/EPA/FDA

If they are safe under those criteria then I can live with that.....pun intended.

From: Beendare Date: 30-Jun-09
I have used an O3 generator "Lotus" designed to eliminate bacteria on produce- works as promised. I tried cleaning some of my nylon base layers and it works good [to my nose- very UN scientific!]

I'm skeptical this technology can be effective in the open air outside.

From: Dennis Fink Date: 30-Jun-09
Woody and I just spoke and he shared his concerns. I agreed to address them and trust he will chime in. His concerns were primarily two-fold. 1) Misuse of the product - the purpose of the HR-100 is to put ozone between the hunter and the prey. As human odor is transported by the wind it contacts the ozone curtain created and is chemically transformed to a salt. "What is not there cannot be smelled." So, hunters should place the unit over their head and direct the ozone DOWNWIND (upwind is clearly not a scent issue). We have produced a "How To" video which will be online shortly and available through retailers showing tree and groundblind use instructions. 2) Health conditions - if one has a lung or heart condition we do not recommend the use of the HR-100. There is no need to treat yourself.

From: Genesis Date: 30-Jun-09
I would be very surprised if the FDA allowed the ppm data of this unit to be shielded from consumers.

From: Dennis Fink Date: 30-Jun-09
From Genesis - "Some data showing ppm in groundblinds with various ventilation techniques would be fantastic to make an informed decision against those standards set by OSHA/EPA/FDA"

We tested to ensure the unit would not exceed EPA standards (they provide OUTSIDE standards for Ozone, OSHA provides INDOOR standards) and if there is ANY ventilation the unit will not exceed indoor standards.

Our instructions state the unit should be used with ventilation at ALL times...

NOTE TO ALL - it does not take much ozone to eliminate human odor...GREAT news for the hunter, the homemaker, etc... God knew what HE was doing...

From: SteveB Date: 30-Jun-09
There is no question that ozone can/does eliminate order.

The question is: "how can a unit producing levels safe for use in a confined enviroment(ex - groundblind)possibly produce enough to have any real measurable effect outdoors above you in a treestand".

I am far from a scientist or even very smart - however combine outdoor, uncontrolled dillution of the ozone with its short life span, I see no way it can be effective - especially only producing levels safe in a blind. No way I see that it could do both.

Stevebny

From: Ironbow Date: 30-Jun-09
"Anyone promoting the use of the product is responsible for making sure its used in a safe manner, that includes Dr. Kroll and Ralph and Vicki."

Woody, more than once Mike has posted here and deferred to you with technical questions on Magnus products. Maybe Mike didn't want to type out the answers?

Have a great day.

From: Dennis Fink Date: 01-Jul-09
I appreciate the concerns regarding, "does it work" and health...but they are largely unfounded.

I can assure you the HR-100 works and we offer a money back guarantee to prove it. When has such an offer EVER been made by a scent elimination product in the hunting industry?

You can say you do not want to use it for any number of reasons, but given an honest test, you will never say it doesn't work.

A simple test... take the unit into a tree stand, place it overhead and direct the ozone DOWNWIND. Once animals (deer, coyote, bear, etc) are present downwind turn the unit off...5-7 minutes later (times are somewhat variable) you will hear the snort and see the dance from a whitetail and they will leave... The only way to prove it to yourself is to use it... Our biggest supporters were all skeptics. Retailers are the biggest skeptics in world believe it or not. It's taken 2 plus years, and lots of education, for them to begin to accept the technology.

Regarding health... What is the fear? Ozone is O3, a form of oxygen that quickly returns to O2 (oxygen) in air. Very high concentrations can be damaging, just as very high concentrations of anything can be damaging. We are NOT producing ozone at those levels. We designed the unit with safety in mind and our insurance policy was dependent upon it. Insurance companies are far more skeptical than y'all as they are liable. Any chemcial compound used improperly can cause harm; water, salt, oxygen, etc. At issue is can they be used safely by humans. The federal government says ozone can be used safely and we have learned the same thing.

Ever been in the hotels in Las Vegas? If so, you are breathing ozone. That's how they clean the air in the hotels. Ozonie is used all over the place and you just do not realize it.

From: SteveB Date: 01-Jul-09
I do realize it is used all over - in indoor, controlled enviroments where levels can be measured and controlled for saftey. Not in an open, outdoor, uncontrolled setting.

Quote: "What is the fear? Ozone is O3, a form of oxygen that quickly returns to O2 (oxygen) in air."

If if quickly reverts to O2 and is produced at a safe level for a 125 cu/ft enclosed blind, there is no way it can be effective for outdoor use - especially with any breeze at all. Its the marketing claims I have a problem with. Telling people to try it in a treestand is not proof - far too many uncontrollable varibles to be able to claim animal sightings as proof.

Stevebny

From: mnbob Date: 01-Jul-09
Some helpful information can be found on Wikipedia to provide a little background on this. Helped me get a better grasp of the problem. Wish we could see the same kind of discussion about carbon clothing. Michigan just filed a class action. Some very insightful information has been released. Seems like that discussion is off limits.

From: Stekewood Date: 02-Jul-09
No wonder Dr Kroll didn't want to put the unit next to a breathing human! LOL

Joking aside, seems like what that document says is that at "acceptable" levels, ozone doesn't do what it's claimed to do, and to get it to work, the levels would be very dangerous. It will be interesting to see how this thing does, but based on that Dept. of Public Health document, I'm going to pass.

This reminds me of walking down the yard and garden chemical aisle at the local home center. You can stand there and watch hundreds of consumers buying chemicals that they have no idea how safe, or unsafe they are. Sure there is a label, and it says not to deviate from the instructions, but how many backyard warriors actually read it, let alone follow it.

The mentality of "They must be safe, or they wouldn't be allowed to sell them" is unbelievable. Just take em home and dump em on the yard, and everything will be fine.

From: longbeard Date: 02-Jul-09
Wow Woody...that link sure was an eye opener...I was going back and forth on the issue until I read that!

From: cbeard64 Date: 02-Jul-09
Dang Woody after reading that I can't believe they can sell the things....

From: buckiller Date: 02-Jul-09
WOW, that does it for me. YOU MUST READ WOODY's LAST LINK on the subject. Frpm the CTDEP website, it is obvious that this item cannoot be safe if it actually does what it says it does...

From: buckiller Date: 02-Jul-09
Chances are the company will not be in business in the future...

From: Genesis Date: 02-Jul-09
California'a Assembly has written a bill to MANDATE the disclosure of emissions of these machines when the company themselves do not do it.

From: Big Nine Date: 02-Jul-09
HuH? is all I can say? I hope none of you ever drive a vechile or ride a bike or cross a street...because if you do you might get hurt????...you all must live a real sheltered life! From what i have read including all of the comments, this unit goes as life goes....however if you follow the directions on how to use the unit...you are not putting yourself at risk...if you go into a closet, close the door and turn the unit on then sure your at a risk...don't run a red light....now if you use the product as the direction state you are not at risk, but will it be effective?....they offer a money back gaurantee mmmmmhmmmmmmm ...interesting....I feel like Bowsite has been invaided by a bunch of liberals....Dennis I will try one of these units! And when it works I will be the first to post a pic :)

Hope everyone has a safe and happy 4th!

From: longbeard Date: 02-Jul-09
Big I'm not quite sure what stake you have in this but every time you say something it is in defense of this product...What gives?...Did you read the Fact Sheet that the CT DEH put forth?...either it emits too much ozone to be safe to do the job as advertised or it emits only enough ozone to be safe and not enough to do as advertised...so Big which way is it?...can't be both ways!For the record I am NOT a liberal but I sure do like living the way I live now with no apparent health issues...until I can see some concrete evidence that will make me rest easy about this product I will not be using one...and by the way how are you going to prove that this product really works?

From: Stekewood Date: 02-Jul-09
Go for it Big Nine. Hope you find that you think it works for you.

Even though I'm not going for it, the concept is interesting, and if enough guys believe it works, it could make a bundle. Just look at carbon clothing! ;-)

From: Genesis Date: 02-Jul-09
"I feel like Bowsite has been invaided by a bunch of liberals"

Nice attempt at trying to promote a product by asking "what we thought about it" in your thread opening post.Maybe you can be a "Prostaffer" too.

Evidently since you didn't get the answers you wanted we are liberals......now that's a hoot!

I hope the unit works like a charm and is safer still.

From: mnbob Date: 02-Jul-09
Why do these people like Dr Kroll risk their reputation by endorseing a product that they haven't researched completely. Is the money that important ? Look at the hit that Lee Lakowsky will take when the truth comes out about carbon clothing. After the last released information from the depositions there was is no way they will survive these 8 lawsuits. How do you feel about endorsements of hunting products ?

From: pappy Date: 02-Jul-09
MONEY IN THERE POCKETS,,,,WHATEVER PAYS THE BILLS THEY WILL PROMOTE !!!!!!!!!!!

From: Dennis Fink Date: 02-Jul-09
Ozonics always knew the use of ozone in hunting would require education of the public. We expected skeptics and we appreciate those who are honest. Ozone, like electricity, water, oxygen, fire, salt, a loaded gun, gasoline and thousands of other products/compounds can have positive and negative effects.

Woody, and others, have provided the negatives when ozone is used incorrectly. It is always appreciated when helpful folks desire others to know how to effectively use, or avoid misusing, a product so we appreciate this trusting there is no ill intent.

Bottom line for Ozonics: 1) We produce our products to federal safety standards for INDOOR use, but the unit is intended for use OUTDOORS. Why do we do this? In case someone misuses the product indoors. In addition the unit CANNOT be used while charging. This prevents using the unit longer than the charge on the battery. This means ozone levels are VERY low relative to what is acceptable, even indoors. 2) NIOSH and the EPA offer NO data that suggests healthy humans are negatively impacted by ozone at the levels allowed by law and we are BELOW these levels. 3) Our instructions state the unit should be used with ventilation which dilutes the ozone even further and that those with breathing issues or heart issues should not use the product. We do this to be consistent with the federal standards. 4) Any questions regarding "does it work" can be addressed by using the product. Unlike ALL other products on the market the test is simple... - use the product as directed - when deer, etc are downwind turn the unit off - wait a few minutes for the ozone curtain to dilute - watch the results...you will be amazed This will convince the honest person on the effectiveness of the technology. 5) Finally, we offer a money back guarantee...because it works.

From: Stekewood Date: 03-Jul-09
Dennis, Where are the details of the money back guarantee? Couldn't find them on the site.

From: petedrummond Date: 03-Jul-09
Come on guys, this thing isn't degenerating fast enough into a name calling contest for my liking.

From: David Alford Date: 04-Jul-09
"Just see they dropped the msrp from $600 to $300. Means it was way overpriced to start with and they hoped to make a killing... Not the kind of company I will do business with."

A little bit of greed is good...we wouldn't have any of the neat stuff even the critical stuff if we waited around for people to risk their time and money just to "help humanity".

Besides, profit is relative to volume sold due to manufacturing costs. So there is always a juggling act between price point and quantity sold. Successful business people test price to see what the market tells them, not vice versa.

From: David Alford Date: 04-Jul-09
My other perspective on the unit is this...I personally am gadgetized enough and draw the line on personal sent control.

That said, I doubt the ozone in a hunting situation is going to be the least bit dangerous. The products have been used in home, office, car, etc. situations at what are probably much higher levels for decades. btw, if you work in a dusty environment, you might improve you health situation with one as they will really knock down the dust as well as smoke so you lungs don't suffer from that stuff.

From: tripler Date: 15-Nov-10
i am going to buy one and will give results asap.

From: let'em grow Date: 10-Dec-10
Very interested in this product. Hope to try one soon. Thanks Dennis for your comments and for your companies ingenuity for developing it. Would really like to see battery life last longer, since I sit dark to dark during rut but will be great benefit on the stands where wind is right in morning and not evening or vise versa.

THINK ABOUT TAKING DOES OVER YEAR AND A HALF OLD BUCKS AND HUNTING WILL BE BETTER FOR YOU AND EVERYONE.

From: Beendare Date: 10-Dec-10

Beendare's Supporting Link

Hmmmmmm a way to rid us of Fanboys.....

I really didn't finish reading this USDA link about O3....I stopped at the "permanent lung damage" part

From: leftee Date: 11-Dec-10
Hmmm,yes very interesting.

"DOES NOT......reduce odors.....at FDA approved concentrations"

From: Picher Date: 11-Dec-10
"California'a Assembly has written a bill to MANDATE the disclosure of emissions of these machines when the company themselves do not do it."

Can't believe you posted that. This thing is as dangerous as a happy meal.

From: Picher Date: 11-Dec-10
"California'a Assembly has written a bill to MANDATE the disclosure of emissions of these machines when the company themselves do not do it."

Can't believe you posted that. This thing is as dangerous as a happy meal.

From: kellyharris Date: 11-Dec-10
JAYG- ALl I know is if you want back on our lease (hunt club) you are required to bring your OZONE thing """"I called it the TIG welder" because that is what it smells like,

I have a 9X12 garage in my toyhauler. it smelled hoorendous with sour hunting clothes. Jay plugge din his ozone thing (TIG WELDER) and no mor eodors in about 4 hours. yeh you could smell the ozone odor but once you got outside it was gone in about 5 minutes...

Freaking thing worked great!!!!

From: snapcrackpop Date: 12-Dec-10
I just finished reading this thread and did not see any post by Woody that was "bashing". I appreciate his concerns and believe them to be honest and in a very professional manner. Big difference between science and "just try it!!!"

I would consider purchasing the product to "scent clean" my clothes however...

From: stikbow26 Date: 12-Dec-10
I can jump in on this subject seeing I have used the model 200 all season this year,and all I can say is it is the best thing to happen to hunting for me so far and I have been bowhunting for 36 years. The baby really works just like they say, Now I don't know about all the stuff being said here But I can tell you when hung above my head and faced downwind with a 30 degree angle if I even smell the unit 3 times during a 5 hour hunt I would be lucky..I have used this in Illinois and In Michigan and all I can say is I wont go up a tree without it.. 2 thumbs up Ozonics..Walt

From: JayG Date: 12-Dec-10
I never tried to Ozonics, but we used the Scent Terminator and it worked really well. We plugged it in and laid our clothes and gear out with it running for a couple hours each night. Just about every deer I saw was coming in from downwind. There is no way that should have happened.

Everybody in camp was putting thier stuff in the garage section of Kelly's trailer by the end of the first couple days. It really seemed to work great!

Jay

BTW, Kelly, I'm bringing it back next year. Man, I can't wait.


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Subject: RE: Ozonics and Dr. James Kroll

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