They have done several tests with his dog. From the effectivness of rubber boots, to scent eliminating clothing, to sprays and soaps, ect... none of which was for a hunting perspective, but mearly trying to track and find a specific person.
His advise to me was to get to my stand early, because even the cleanest rubber boots leave a trail, but that trail can disipate after a couple hours to the point that only a well trained dog like his will pick up the cold trail. The second bit of advise was to get as high in a tree as possible. The difference between being 10' up and 30' up was the difference between the dog needing to be 30 yards away or 300 yards away to catch your scent.
When the target guy was 30' up, the dog had to be at least 60 yards away(or farther) to catch his scent. and when 10' up in a tree, the dog could pick it up from only 10 yards away. A perfect example of how hunters think their scent elimination stuff works when a deer travels 30 yards down wind of them and does not smell them.
He also said that any and all scent elimination products they used made NO difference in the dogs ability to find the person, none. Needless to say, I no longer waist my time or money on scent elimination products. Just hunt the wind, and if using a hang-on stand, go high!
I have been saying this for over 25 years in seminars and articles. As far as a deer smelling you once in the stand, I have found 8-12 feet the best height. Get a smoke bomb or a piece of milk weed and see where the air currents take it from 8 feet.
Are you saying 8-12 feet up is better than 20-25 feet up?
bowriter, where do you get smoke bombs?
To translate that into hunting info... if a trail is 20 yards away downwind, those deer may never smell you if you are high enough. Keep in mind though, that the wind can and does swirl with different terrain.
It took this dog less than 3 minutes to find his target that was concealed head to toe with scent elimination products and a welders carbon face mask, from a half mile away down wind! pretty incredible!
I used to run hounds and I know what he is talking about. You aren't going to fool an animals nose. Doesn't matter if it is Carbon clothing, cover scent, breath cover scent, or scent elimination.
You may tone you scent down a little bit but you won't eliminate it.
"Forget about the wind, just hunt the money"
I sure am glad to know it doesn't work. :-)
I recently grilled some trout and when I got done my hands smelled fishy. I sprayed some Silver Shield on them and no more fish smell. My nose must have clogged right after I sprayed the stuff on since everyone says it doesn't work.
Thanks for letting me know these products don't work. Have a good season.
On this year's elk hunt, my hunting partner sprayed his cat quiver with Deet to repel ants!? Don't ask me why he did it, but in any case we tried everything to get rid of that smell. Plain water proved most efffective. That silver garbage (it's called silver because per ounce it costs the same)actually intensified the stench of the Deet!
In any case, those of you who trust it and have had good experience with it, keep using it. To Ironbow, I'm glad your hands don't smell like fish anymore.
I poured the rest of that bottle of silver garbage down the toilet where it belonged.....It didn't help the smell.
I was sitting a wallow when I encountered a major scent dilemma. I had to pee and didn't want to contaminate the area with my scent. My buddy had left an almost empty bottle of that stuff in my pack and I was able to use that bottle as a portable urinal.
I kindly threw the bottle away after returning to camp instead of one suggestion I received which was to return the bottle to the manufacturer (of the previous liquid).
I am not a trophy hunter, I am not famous. I do have almost 55 years involved in whitetail research and I have killed my fair share of deer that exceed P&Y minimums. The height of a tree stand should be dictated by only one thing---background cover. The higher you climb, the more difficult the shot and the farther away the deer can smell you. All of my stands (I'm pretty succesfull) are between 8-12 feet.
Yes, I get busted now and then. No biggie to me. But think about this:
If a deer smells you at 60 yards, where is your shot? If he smells you at 15 yards, why haven't you shot?
I have had elk wind me at 300 yards. The wind swirled. You can only do so much. A stand 30 feet up a tree is so much of a handicap, I'm not even sure it is ethical.
Now boots. Until cold or wet weather, I hunt in tennis shoes. I cannot, in the last 35 years, think of a single time a deer has smelled where I put my feet. Hands, yes, arms yes. Feet, no. It is not what you have on your feet, it is what you have on your boots. All of my hunting boots or shoes are used to wade creeks while fishing. They are then sun dried and put in plastic bags. I put them on when I leave the truck and if convenient, pee on them before entering the woods.
You can call me crazy, many have. But this is my opinion and by rough estimate, I have put somewhere between 300 and 400 whitetails in the freezer with all equipment.
Deer hunting is common sense. Then there is selling a product. If you think it helps you, gives you confidence. Do it. But stop believeing everything you read. Even my articles are half BS :)
arctichill, not all silver based products are the same. I have tested some of them that don't get rid of really bad odors any better than traditional scent elimination sprays, or take multiple applications. The Silver Scent products I have tried are on another level. One application and they have completely worked. I have experimented with various sprays with some stinky scents, if I am going to use a product, I want to know if it works before I go to the woods.
Use what works for you, have a great season all. Stay safe if you climb those trees.
But saying it is better scentwise to be 8-12 feet up vs. 20-25 feet up must have come from the BS half of one of your articles....
;)
I'm a big fan of Primos, but just 'cause they put their name on something doesn't mean it works. (IE. Bear Bows..JK) Anybody remember the movie Tommy Boy, with Chris Farley?
I'm reminded of the scene where he's selling break pads and says of his competitor's guaranteed product, "I could S#*t in a box and write guaranteed across it! That doesn't mean it's a quality break pad!?"
Bowriter said it best, if you think it works and is worth the money, buy it and use it.
I wear rubber because once the mfg.(new)smell wears off,they are less likely than other materials to absorb odors and then give those odors back off. They are easy to keep clean.They keep my feet and lower legs dry.No shoe strings to hold odors.Can walk in mud and other things with no worries about causing accelerated damage to the footwear.Helps diminish the amount of ticks that can get at my pants legs.
I can only think of one disadvantage.Long walk/hikes in rubber can cause the feet to sweat.I apply fresh baking soda before putting them on before every hunt to help midigate that.
With all due respect Bowriter, I don`t feel wearing rubber boots will hurt or ever has hurt my chances.
Years ago, after a conversation with an old-timer, I quit using deodorant a month before I went to elk camp. Blew my mind.
Would love to try that and I might, but part of me thinks you are pulling my leg to get me in trouble with the wife ;-)
I am fortunate to be one of those folks that don't sweat easily. I worked with a guy that would sweat walking across the room, he used to accuse me of not working hard enough because he was dripping and I wasn't, while I worked side by side with him.
I have tried regular unscented underarm deodorant, the crystal stuff, and some stuff Paul Brunner used to sell called Pit Stop. Claimed you only needed to use it once every ten days even if you showered everyday. There's another marketing line for ya! Didn't work. I actually have good luck with reducing body odor by taking alfafa pills from Shaklee. Maybe the deer will want to come take a bite out of me! ;)
Have a good season.
Of course, you always play the wind because NO scent is the goal, but that does not always happen. Detecting human scent is not the only criteria. With a wild animal, you also have to take into account HOW MUCH scent is detected - what distance away does the animal think the human is? How spooky is that animal? That determines how the animal will react when they detect some amount of human scent. An animal that is supper spooky may take off when detecting ANY scent, but another animal that has been in an area with a lot of hikers, farmers or other humans might only react if the scent is strong and they think the human is very close.
In a hunting situation, there are WAY too many variables for any one person’s experience to be viewed as fact – either way. If YOU feel these products make a difference for YOU, forget about those who swear it can't possibly work!
Good post Ironbow!
Your comparison to your tennis shoes as proof that rubber boots have no advantage over leather boots is misleading.
How you used your tennis shoes and care for them is much more important than what they are made out of.
If everybody cared for their tennis shoes or leather boots in the same manner, their would not be much advantage to rubber boots. However, the average Joe wears their tennis shoes for other things like playing tennis and they get sweaty and stinky. Also, leather boots that are worn for work or daily activities also absorb a lot of odors. A pair of rubber boots dedicated strictly to hunting will be much better than everday tennis shoes or leather boots.
Also, I'm not sure if you understand the concept with the treestand height/scent issue. I don't see how being lower could be an advantage.
If you are 8 feet up with a horizontal wind, your scent cone will reach the ground a very short distance downwind of you. A deer 15 yards downwind of you may smell you because your scent has already reached the ground. Let's say your scent reaches the ground 15 yards downwind of you. That means that every deer 15 yards OR FARTHER down wind of you will smell you.
If you are 25 feet up in that same tree and a deer passes 15 yards downwind of you, there's a better chance that deer will not smell you because your scent cone may not have reached the ground at that close range. In other words, your scent may still be above the deer and may not reach the ground until 50 or 60 yards downwind. Every deer 50 yards downwind of you might smell you, but every deer closer than 50 yards might not because your scent is still above them.
So how could a 15 yard downwind scent free zone be better than a 50 yard downwind scent free zone? I've shot many deer in that 20-30 yard zone.
You say the higher you are, the farther away deer can smell you? Just because you are higher does not mean your scent travels farther than the scent of somebody who is lower. The scent of the higher hunter just covers a greater distance before it reaches the ground. I guarantee you that a deer 100 yards downwind is going to smell a guy 8 feet in a tree just as well as he will smell a guy 20 feet in a tree.
I guess according to your reasoning we should all hunt on the ground and deer would never smell us.
I am a big believer in scentkiller sprays for rubber boots and dumbing down the scent. It does knock down the scent enough so the deer are less wary than say a heavily scented boot.
The only time I would wear sneakers is if I could guarantee a deer wouldn't cross my path as it walked to my stand. Otherwise, I would love to see those deer turn inside out when they cross that path vs someone with a sprayed down clean rubber boot :)
There is a big difference between the faint scent of a coyote that tells a deer that predator was there hours ago and the strong scent that says that coyote is there right now.
Used with common sense, scent control has stacked the odds in my favor on many occasions.
Stealth
Don't be too quick to downplay the cannine/deer ability to smell odors in the same way. Probably the best and most accurate way to determine the effectiveness of a system.
Test #1
Scenario: My friends daughter spilled milk in the cab of his truck. Milk soured and stunk to high heavens. Tried three products on it.
1. Primos silver spray - did nothing to the smell, it actually has it's own odor.
2. Scent killer - knocked down the scent some, but still very noticeable.
3. Dead down wind - Killed the smell, there was no trace of the sour smell after using.
Test #2
Scenario:
Took three Dixie cups, put napkins in cup and squirted two drops of old doe in heat urine on the napkin.
1. Primos - made its own stink, very noticeable smell even after drying.
2. Scent Killer - reduced scent by a very large amount. Was very hard to pick up the smell with just a sniff.
3. DDW - killed the odor. Was impressed.
Take it or leave it! Some of the products do work, and can help remove odors that are present on clothing, but it will not make you invisible.
"I don't think you can prove they don't help anymore than you can prove they do."
That's a fact. A fact that scent elimination companies take advantage of to the tune of millions of $$$ in sales each year.
John
;)
No I don't use it.
I think a deer can pick up intent from the odors of other creatures (like us). That might explain a few things.
I also think that when we see a deer spook over our foot trail, it may actually be reacting to airborne scent that did not originate form the trail. It only takes a puff of wind to push it in the wrong direction...
2c.
The bottom line is that you should use what you feel works for you! That can be the type of camo you wear, the type of broadhead you use, the type of rest or sight or fletching or...
If I feel scent reduction works (no matter how I get there), I'll keep using it! If the time comes when I don't feel it gives me an advantage, I'll stop.
Seriously, as I said before, "You can't eliminate human odor. But you can tone it down to some extent. The effect of this is to make the deer or elk think you may be further away than you really are and possibly make them think you are far enough away that you are of little danger to them.
The commercial stuff is nothing but a money grabber. You can make your own spray from peroxide and baking soda for a few cents instead of paying big dollars for the commercial stuff. And it probably works better anyhow!
In either case, you still need to hunt the wind. I suppose you might be able to eliminate all human odor if you had one of those million dollar air conditioned space man suits. But, until they become available at a reasonable price, HUNT THE WIND.......
dray
It can be deduced then, albeit somewhat sinister perhaps, that lysol can be used in a deer area, and rendering the deers sense of smell temporariliy disabled, or making him "anosmic".. he he.
Thats a patent right there folks. well, not now that I made it publicly disclosed.
Bottom line.. in marketing and marketing liability, its not really about " if you can prove your claim.. it more about if anyone can disprove it ".
(something that has always bothered me)
BobRay SkinCare/AirCareChemist/facepainter/bowhunter
ps. tons of precedent that stopping using personal deodorants normalizes odor (i.e. reduces spikes)..
pss. potassium alum (deodorant crystals) work, but not for 10 days, but more like after 10 days..with good hiegene, this is in the books, fact, antiquity bears witness.
pss. killing bacteria on humans creates opportunistic environments for other foriegn bacteri, and/or creates resistant strains, especially from triclosan or triclocarban, also in the books.
Sorry,but the whole scent elimination theory I can't buy.
Take a country ham,put it in cloth sack that has be 100% sterilized with the latest and greatest.
In one minute the sack and ambient air will be full of the ham smell.See how smart I miz?
Whether you "scent elimination" mattered 5-10% (I'm being nice here) the air was over loaded with odor.
Sebacous glands reek and the substance is an oil and oil based odor can't be dissipated very fast.
Shaving all your body hair will reduce the contact of this oil and reduce your scent.Will it matter?I dunno,but that single free thing will do more in one's attempt at scent elimination than anything but very few hunters do it.
Cheer up Sleepy Jean,the razor blade is cold and it stings....:)
"otassium alum (deodorant crystals) work, but not for 10 days, but more like after 10 days..with good hiegene..."
thanks
This salt is classified as a cosmetic astringent and a stryptic. It is colorless and odorless.
In both terms, the result is a toning effect on human dermal tissues. (tightens skin and pores)creating a layer of tightened skin between the underlying tissues and the environment. It is not "sanctioned" by food and drug (FDA), it has no "pharmacuetical mechanisms".
In this day of funky chemistry, the debate rages on, regarding the use of aluminum III in mass market deodorants, and its alleged association with alzheimers, and other systems such as adrenal and endocrine related adsorption.
Commercial deodorants do "bio-accumulate" in the tissues and the aluminum III is adsorbed into the bloodstream, and it is by the way regulated NOT as cosmetics but as pharmacuticals (over the counter pharmacuticals = OTC).
You will find as numerous folks attest, that stopping using mass market "deodorants and anti-perspirants" it has addressed many issues of side-effects, including irritation and "odor spikes".
This can happen in about a week or so for some, as they 'normalize' and detox from commercial preparations.
The natural mineralic salt, is a simple natural method that is safe, effective, non-invasive, and is remarkable in its effect all over the body including "hairy" areas, where sebum and glandular hormonal secretions abound such as 'alpha male'and reproductive ones.
We have found hat head smells, and monkey butt smells are drastically mitigated, after cleaning the slate and maintaining good detox and hygeine.
nuts and granola types swear by it, and its sound technology, simple-safe- and effective, we swear by it too, but were carniverous.
listen to me.. I sound like either a salesman, or a chemist! and as a matter of fact, Im not just a user! Look me up! go ahead and check my facts. youll see.
standing up against funky chemistry, microcidal chemistry, and helping bowhunters! Bob Ray no-slight-of-hand here.
People just can't grasp that a human and animal are on a different playing field when it comes to scent. We tend to thing that if we cant smell something then it must not leave a scent trail....wrong. Thats why putting a little dirt cover scent is a waste of time. They pick up scent on a molecular level and many can't understand that.
People just can't grasp that a human and animal are on a different playing field when it comes to scent. We tend to thing that if we cant smell something then it must not leave a scent trail....wrong. Thats why putting a little dirt cover scent is a waste of time. They pick up scent on a molecular level and many can't understand that.
Maybe this is a placebo effect, maybe I had more MOJO because I THOUGHT that I had an edge, who knows?! If you think it's worth it or it gives you more peace of mind, then do it! BUT....you should always hunt the wind regardless.
I also pee all over the place and actually have called in Elk and deer from peeing ;) Apparently they don't mind a little urine now and again.
BYW, you want it downwind of you too!
I was sitting in a treestand the other day about 12 or 13 feet up with an open field on my downwind side. and had a fox pass downwind of me at about 100 yards he passed by and never gave any indication of scenting me. he passed by and went out of sight I gave him the kiss of death and he came right in and passed me downwind at about 15 yards, he turned on a dime and took off guess what. Well I also had some deer pass by downwind at about 200 yards they caught me scent and the does would sniff the air and be real cautious but did continue on. A couple of nice bucks follwed the does and they too caught my scent but did not continue they stopped and did not hesitate went the oposite direction they were on red alert the whole time they went out of sight as aas far as I know are still on red alert. I don;t use any scent eliminator but do where rubbber boots mostly for the ease of sue.
Good golly, Man, you are so correct. Three Doe coming towards me this evening, then the wind shifted from me to them. I only climbed 10 feet tonight just to test your theory, and the three Doe did not hit my scent until 12 yards. Can you say TOO LATE - lights out for one Doe.
Tony
mnbob, I agree w/ you that dander is a big deal.
Take 1/2 gallon T-juice and 1/2 gallon vodka. Drink the vodka and throw the tomatoe juice on the dog, then throw the dog outside. No odor.
Have a nice weekend guys, I gots fishies to fry for about 60 people tonight and a college game to shoot tomorrow. I bees buyy.
First - spraying just the product onto a cotton ball. Results (best to worst for least detectable scent) 1. Evolve 2. Scent A-way 3. Scent Killer 4. Primos XP
Second test, to take a fresh cotton ball and add human odor. Went with a stinky armpit after working around the house all day. Results (best to worst for least detectable scent) 1. Evolve 2. Scent Killer 3. Scent A-way 4. Primos XP (no human smell, but still overpowering medicine-like smell)
The boy thought Scent Killer was best and Evolve second place, so it was a close final result.
Woody makes a good point that a dog will focus on a scent he is "trying" to find and detect it at a level that a deer may also detect but not be alarmed by. All information needs to be processed with common sense - that doesn't mean you can't use the information.
Your test just about mirror my results that I posted on the topic on Oct 7th.
So thanks for the confirmation!
So since we are talking human scent killing, I tried the test again on just those odors, and I now came up with results similar to yours. Very cool !! So I am officially convinced as far as the scent killing sprays ~!
Now what about the other products like body wash and deoderant? I think the other DeadDownWind products(their body wash, deoderant, and powder) have a very noticable smell right out of the bottle. What brands do you like for the other categories??
I think the purpose of those sprays is to kill the human scent that alarms deer, and whatever scent of their own that they have is considered benign...
I think anyway...
Thats the last time the wife will put an airplane apple in her purse...
Hell I wear cologne to work and hunt after wards without showering. I still have deer within 20 yrds. My wife was smoking in the tree stand last year, and she shot a doe at 30 yrds during the second week of gun season. I guess cigarettes killed that doe (LOL).
I like the DDW body wash. Hunting in Alabama I have many warm days of hunting. I've found that the the DDW and Arm&Hammer unscented antiperspirant keep my odor in check better than anything else.
I've tried all of the "Hunting Deodorants" none of them work in my opinion. Heck I think most of them made me smell even worse.
I've trained bird dogs all my life and there is a phenomenon called "Scenting Conditions." And it's been talked and discussed by bird dog trainers down through the years. Some days a dog can't seem to find a bird if it's in his water bowl and other days, they can lock up on a grouse at 50 yards.
I've had dogs, on the retrieve with a bird in their mouth, lock up on point - pointing another wild bird!
How can they smell a bird with a hot, shot-up bird in their mouth? Scenting conditions. Sometimes, deer can smell us very well and sometimes they can't very well. So sometimes you can stink like some kids did after gym class, who didn't know about deodorant, and still have a deer walk up to you.
The operative word is - sometimes.
That's one thing. Secondly, having killed hundreds of deer, but more importantly, having spent almost every day in the woods deer hunting during season for the last 38 years - is not so much about eliminating scent, but cutting it down to what could be called "Ambient level."
Deer smell humans almost every day and get used to gauging how far hunters are away and when, or how long ago they passed by. Scent elimination techniques fool deer and other critters by cutting down the scent so that the whitetail thinks the person passed down the trail longer ago than they did.
Back in the '80's when hardly anybody used "scent control" like showering before hunting, and the products from carbon clothing to the sprays, it was easier to get close to deer because other hunters smelled up the woods and the deer were used to it.
Now, with scent elimination being so sold and marketed, every hunter is using it - and it is making it tougher out there. Deer re-calibrate ambient scent.
So, if all bow hunters peed on themselves and stunk up the woods - it would sure make it a lot easier for me. ;0) So go ahead,...stop worrying about scent elimination. Uhh...play the wind...just hunt...stink...
It sounds logical, but my experience is just the opposite.
Ironic - now when talking about deer hunting the "worst" scenting conditions are actually the best for a hunter. And the best scenting conditions for a deer or dog, is the worst for a bow hunter but the best for a bird hunter running a dog.
I am a still hunter kind of guy. I hunt long and hard, 5+ miles a day, traversing up and down 2000+ feet in elevation. No stand hunting where I hunt. I usually sweat like a pig most of the day. This year in particular was bad as we had such a hot September.
I personally find it a waste of money to scent up during my hikes because of how much odor I am putting out and scent lock is too hot and heavy to use, not that I buy into that whole concept. But I can tell you when I do use scent eliminator products . . . .at night when we get back to the tent! I require my hunting buddies to use it as well! :) Bottom line is we stink pretty badly after a long days hunt. I use the DDW cloths to wipe down and there is a huge difference in smell! Armpits, feet, hair, it doesn’t matter. Most of the time it takes away all the smell that my nose can sense. Helps with the smell in the tent and helps us not just add days upon day of stink into our camo.
I don’t think there is any question the stuff reduces odor the question is how much and how does less odor affect an animal. I do strongly agree that animals use the strength of the scent to determine how they react. I have seen too many animals just get a molecule of scent and slowly turn and sneak away. Conversely, I have seen an animal get a nose full and bust every branch to get out of there ASAP. I don’t think there is anyway it eliminates. Just doesn’t seem possible especially considering 75% comes from our mouth. Just think about it even good smelling breath has a smell that my nose can pick up. Funny thing about breath though, since my wife had our kids she is half whitetail when it comes to smell! Freakish really. There are days I come home from work and she will ask my how my garlic chicken pizza tasted for lunch, not 15 seconds after I get in the house. Her ability to smell garlic is off the charts. Anyway, the DDW mouth spray doesn’t eliminate but she is amazed at how much it reduces it. Some interesting but far from scientific notes!
