Would you take a Running Shot?
Whitetail Deer
When I was 21 I could play basketball for 3 hours without warming up and own the court. I could trash talk. I could drop 7 3-pointers easily in a game. I was the man.
I am now almost 40 and can bairly keep up with a High School kid. I could play 3 hours tonight but it might be my last post as I probably would have a heart attack.
If I had the skill I would because it wouldn't be a big deal. When you say confident that means I kill whatever I am shooting at.
So yes I would. However, I can't so I won't.
Yes!!!! I will only do so when an animal is in the open and I can lead the chest area without the possibility of the arrow hitting anything before it gets to the animal. Since I live in the East the only running shots I have ever taken have been on woodchucks and coyotes basically impossible to take a running shot at deer here in New Hampshire. A lost arrow is never an option here due to the many fields that are used by dairy cattle, you just can't take the chance on hurting a cow with a broadhead showing up in feed! Respect for the landowner is what keeps us hunting, both on an off posted lands!
Shooting at chucks and yotes is always at a downwards angle making retrival of an arrow easy. Shooting at a more level angle into a field should never be done thus we do not shoot at running whitetails unless we are in a treestand and all my stands are just inside the wooded areas rather than over looking a field! I do not use lighted nocks if I did and could trust them to stay lite I might give it a try!
Stay well!!
If I were confident and practiced on running shots I would, but I am not, so I wouldn't.
If under 20 yards and running broadside with me at full draw with nothing for me to bump into as pivot to shoot...maybe but probably not since I am more about the experience than putting something on the ground each hunt. I also would not shoot at 50 yards though most likely could...I worry the margin of error is so small for me at longer distances than a minor warp of the arrow or something like a gust of wind could result in a bad outcome. My 2 cents.
Not a chance, i do not practice running shots and am 100% confident my odds of a good hit would be very low. Were I someone with the skills to do it sure in the right circumstances(ie close, and confident in a good kill shot)
If I was like Mr. Wensel and practiced it a lot as he did, I wouldn't have a problem taking the a running shot.
But as it is, I don't practice it, and I'm not that talented, so I wouldn't at this time
By the way, I highly recommend those Wensel books. Very good reading. Wish I could find a copy of "One Man's Whitetail". I have all the others
Bake
It depends on the situation, I would if I thought there was a reasonable chance of making a good shot. I used to shoot rabbits running in front of beagles and the first few shots were not even close but after hunting in the grass for my only arrow I got better fast. Mike
-yes and no.-were i carrying my new sentinel,-not a chance in hell,-i think its ridiculous.-and i'm sorry if i offend anyone.-however,were i stalking with my black widow or trusty ol kodiak magnum,-i wouldnt even hesitate to think about it.-just my two cents worth.
Only if it was already wounded.
I'm with Trapper. There are enough things that mess me up when they are holding still!
Bow, No way, not saying it's completely unethical, I just don't have the confidence in my abilities. Rifle, I have, and I would given the right conditions - I can honestly say I've only taken a handful of running shots with a rifle at big game, and all had the desired end result.
Yes and no
Yes with the stick bow , hit many running rabbits and a few deer . Knocked ducks ,geese , and pheasants down . Snap shooting with a stick bow was instinctive and deadly .
NO with the compound . Period .
No I wouldn't take a running shot even if practiced and skilled at it.
I'm really good at shooting a motionless 20 yard target / deer, but I've still had things go bad somehow (when hunting) and that's under "ideal" conditions.
Too many factors on a running deer IMO.
Yes, providing it would be within 25 yds and not in a full speed run
NO too many variables. That said, guys that practice daily with their recurves are usually good enough to takes shots out to 30 yds.
with a compound no.
with my new recurve, maybe someday!
with shotgun, yes.
Wounded animal I would absolutely. Not having the ability otherwise, I would not.
I did rifle kill a buck once that was running behind a doe. The meat was awful. I figured he was full of adrenalin from chasing and it tainted the meat. Never again.
I would like to ask Mr. Wensel how many running shots has he missed in his lifetime and how many animals he hit but did not recover. I have hit small targets at 100 yards with my recurve but my batting average on them is pathetic. Lets assume he only wounds or missies 2 out of 10 - is this ok? I think not. I may be wrong but I don't believe there is anyone on earth who has a better than 80% chance of killing a running animal and I can't see taking shots with that margin of error.
I would walking but not running.
Using the ol canoe paddle to stir stuff with again are we? LOL!
Yes, with conditions. Done it even, sitting flat on the ground, but he was coming by at about 3 or 4 feet and he went down in seconds. At a more normal hunting range, no. Hard enough to hit a saucer (I don't use the "pie plate" theory) when standing still at hunting yardages.
I have taken a few calm walking shots that worked out well. In some cases it's more predictable as they tend to not jump the string as much. Plus counting on stopping them exactly in the window you want can be a crapshoot. One didn't work out as well when I squeaked to stop a buck and it looked like he was stopping but he just hesitated and didn't fully stop. Arrow was on it's way already and hit him back. We recovered him but the next day and too late for the meat.
Running? If I was truly "confident" then maybe. But I honestly doubt I'd ever be confident, because that confidence would have to be acid tested in real simulations. Deer run and jump blindingly fast.
"Pushing the envelope" where the life and death of another animal is involved isn't something I expect to be proud of.
That's assuming there it was an unwounded animal. If it was already wounded then it's "arrows away" because plenty of damage has already been done, so to speak.
_____
Re: Taking ethics too far?
I don't think we've taken the ethical thing too far. In fact, in many subsistence cultures, disrespecting wild food animals (and angering the animal spirit who provides them) was generally believed to be a fast track to starvation for the tribe. It was not uncommon for the tribes to put the eyes out of any hunter who treated game disrespectfully to keep him from further offending the animal spirit.
Heck what I see some poachers (and even some hunters) do these days makes me think ethics aren't taken seriously enough. In addition to injuring animals needlessly, such actions do tremendous damage "the resource" (poaching= lost tags) and "the sport" (via horrible PR leading to reduced seasons).
I have - it did the job well - I won't anymore.
I useto practice on moving targets (deer targets)and had everything I needed to do the job, I haven't for so many years now that I wouldn't take the chance anymore.
I shot my one and only hog on a run at 30 yards. I was successful but I don't know if I would do it again. Would depend on the circumstances at the time.
I want to kill the deer not wound it so running shots are out for me.
With recurve I would no doubt.When I'm on top of my game shooting instinctive like I was last fall I drilled running Squirrels.With the compound I wouldn't take a shot at a Deer on the run but I would take one walking if I was in position to let him quarter away a little.
Yes.
Right now, for Varmits and Predators, if they are legal to kill, will have arrows released immediately regardless if they, or I, am/are running and in range, and regardless if I have practiced the running shot lately.
For big game, I would need a lot of practice so right now I would not shoot.
I would say that a lot of nay-sayers had better not ever go bird hunting, shotgun or bow. Most shotgun bird hunters would give up a testicle for an 80% average on flushed birds.
Tony
Not near good enough to try it. On a follow up only.
starated out with a recurve in 1956, and they are more natural than a compound fro runnign or moving game , in 99 % of the time NO !
I used to have a pretty good running deer target on the range behind the house, it was really surprising how quickly guys could go from terrible to scoring vital hits with sticks and compounds but the target was on a set line at a set speed
I personally wouldn't take a running shot as a first shot.
Yes, but not at a full speed run. More like at a caribou trot, not run. it would have to be under 25 yards. I practice slow moving shots out to 50 yards, similar to a deer walking slowly.
I'm just not that good to hit a running animal. Too much adrenaline. It's not instinctive for me. I have to go through the whole shot routine in my head - one of the steps is, "Okay, the animal is stopped and not likely to move...."
iowaPete
I am no Barry Wensel. No running shots, even w/.270.
had a moving target in back yard for years shot it almost everyday,also would kick a ball and shoot,best practice is running chipmunks missed most of them but came dam close,so yes I do and will take running shots as long as the practice is there.I have killed 1 coyote,1 turkey,1 nice buck,2 doe,lots of carp all on the run,knock on wood have not wounded any on the run.Have had some clean misses mostly shot to high.
In theory if I was confident and practiced all the time I would do it.
In reality. Not a chance. It takes me way too long to shoot.
Why do we as hunters like to brag about "Rocking" Ducks or upland Game "Pull feathers out of um" "Dropped a leg" etc. Then threaten to quite hunting with a bow if we happen to have less than the perfect double lung shot and drop them within 20 yards. The shots are doable and a lot easier than one would suspect with practice. Why limit ourselves by saying "No way, never" based on ethics than refuse to practice to become proficient with "True World" hunting shots. The hunting world presents way more obstacles than the 17.5 yard slightly quartering away, standing stone still shot. Of course then to we brag about not hunting from tree stands as it is too easy, then take up still hunting or "Spot and stalk" where just about any imaginable shot will be presented, and if you are practiced are very make-able. When I first saw October Whitetails I was very inspired. Put my wheels away and took up a recurve. The next spring I took a tom turkey at 38 paces from one knee twisted half way around and the turkey was on a dead run quartering away down hill. There was never a doubt in my mind from the time I started to draw until I picked up my Tom, stone dead in 30 seconds, that the shot was good. Either take up the challenge and get off the keyboard and practise, or quit whining and trying to condemn the guy who does, "Based on ethics" For what its worth, I won't take that 38 yard running shot anymore, but I won't bash the guy who does if he feels confident in the shot.. (Even if it does go bad)
Wouldnt even lift my bow......
the almighty will sort this out in time,i have shot 4 deer on the run and yes 1 servived,when u learn to shoot instinctive,you will know when and when not to shoot,the thrill of the hunt is what we seek,enjoy it your own way within the laws,,,,,,,,
I remember the video vividly. I would if I shot as well as Barry on moving targets in the area of 20 yds.
Its hard enough to double lung a deer standing still much less running or trotting.Its to risky i would not take a running shot at all!!
How does one practice hitting a target that moves up and down based on gait, closer and farther - not ot mention speeds up and down - based on terrain, and all on a somewhat random basis?
I once saw a video where Barry and some other guys were making shots on deer that were at full run. They were flinging arrows all over the place and you could see in the slo-mo how poorly they estimations of where they thought the shots should be just how off they were.
I shoot moving birds with a shotgun all the time. Karamojo Bell use to shoot African Geese with his 8mm. But running deer with my longbow, no. Moving deer maybe if the situation was right. But running deer, is way too much guess work for me.
LBB
Not for me....and like Matt pointed out, what type of practice could prepare one for all the variables?
If the shot was practiced...yes
Instinctive shooting is learned by hand & eye coordination, doing it over and over again.
I shoot a lot of carp that are moving, some pretty fast.....I miss a lot too....
But without the backup of practice on moving targets, hundreds or thousands of times, for deer? nope.
good thread.
Garo
Pav, it is also hard to practice for what quail and woodcock can do in flight, yet millions of bird hunts take place every year.
For archery, fill the center of an old tire with styrofoam, and have your buddy roll it down a hill.
When I had the place to set up and practice on a moving target,I became decent at hitting the kill area of a moving target.Not saying I could hit the 12 ring every time.That's where I feel 3D tournaments has hazed some archery's prespective on shooting moving game.I know we all want to make the cleanest kill shot possible but kill area on most big game is quite large when compared to a 12 ring. I killed my best bull elk w/ a 30 yrd trotting shot because I practiced the shot quite a bit. If preperred?YES
at stiff trot but no way running thats just a mother of mother of blood trails in waiting in my opinion
Me running or the animal?
Seriously, no. There is no animal you can't pass up. Keep hunting and get a standing broadside.
No way. When I used to gun hunt, I never did it with a gun, either. Way too much guesswork, and too many things "out of your control". I don't care how good you are or how much you've "practiced" that shot. You can't predict when a running animal is going to make a sharp turn to one side or the other, duck under a limb, jump over a hole....there are so many different things to take into account.
I like Barry & Gene Wensel - a lot. I was in camp at 4 Arrows Outfitters on the King Ranch in Texas at the same time as them, it must have been close to 10 years ago. Everyone was bowhunting for hogs/javelina and nilgai. Barry & Gene were a hoot, and definitely some of the most "down to earth", regular guy hunting "celebrities" I have ever been around. But, a conversation I had with Gene one day is a perfect illustration of why I think the running shot on game is not a good or ethical one, and why no matter how often you "practice" that shot, you're still getting "lucky" to have it work perfectly very often. Gene came in at the end of a day's hunt and looked pretty tired and worn out. Word around camp was that he had made a bad shot on a running, mature nilgai bull and had looked for him for a long time but was unable to find him. I no longer recall where he supposedly hit the bull. A mature blue bull is probably in the neighborhood of 500-600 lbs. I've observed many at close range and have one on my wall that I bow-killed about 8 years ago. I'm always curious about shot details, so I asked Gene what happened on the shot. His exact words to me were: "I zigged, he zagged". Then he shrugged his shoulders as if to say "you win some, you lose some". To him, it seemed to be no more complicated or troublesome than that.
I would like to know what their (or anyone elses) ratio of clean kills/good shots to unrecovered game/bad shots/misses is on running game of any sort, deer or otherwise.
I have and am sure I will again. One of my most memorable bucks I tracked in the snow, jumped and shot as he ran broadside at about 20 yards. Another came by me chasing a doe and instinstively I pulled my longbow up and shot, distance later measured at 33 yards. Two years in a row Carl Steinle watched me shoot wounded antelope on his place in Wyoming while running full bore. He just shook his head and said "how far did you lead him?" My answer was "swing and shoot" I don't know it just comes with instinct.
If I was trying to sell a video I would do it, but never tell anybody about the ones I wounded or missed. Since I'm not trying to sell a video, the answer is no.
I can't do it so I won't do it. As said above,too many uncontrollable variables.
Its funny how some guys jump all over folks for shooting 50 60 70 yards at still targets that are elk size critters , Running deer shots with a compound aint happening ,, Ive seen His shots when i was young , I myself at the age of 15 16 would try these shots on deer , never did i get the same results has he did ,, So i would say his shots that he put on his video are in poor judement , Tv video has a big infulence on people , esp when one was as young as i was , It works for Barry good for him , but he really wasnt setting a correct tone with his trick shots for bowhunters, louis
Joshua, I should have added that I will not shoot at a running deer with a gun either, unless it was already shot but not down.
No... I'd rather practice out to 80 yards and wait till he stops than take a running shot.
Ive shot running deer with a rifle and never missed or wounded one (knock on wood). I have never practised much on moving targets with my bow so I am not planning on shooting a running deer with it. However, if I could consistantly hit running/moving targets in practise I would try a running/fast loping shot if all of the other variables lined up...
Yes, and have. My only attempt at a running shot was when I killed a beautiful 10 point buck as it chased a doe. The buck was not going to stop, and I was very confident in my ability with the equipment I was shooting. The buck never knew what happened and only ran 50 yards.
I have a deer target that hangs from a wire that runs between two trees and i stand at 20 yds and practice shooting this shot and i hit in the heart area alot it builds my confidence but have never taken a running shot.I have taken walking shots and have been successful but i put myself in all kinds of shooting situation it keeps it fun and keeps me shooting practice practice and have fun doing it
I would only if the deer had droopy ears!!!!!!!!!
twojump, if I read this correctly you'd take an 80 yard standing shot but not a running shot?
I generally will pass on shooting a whitetail unless its head is down.
As far as the running shot goes, obviously there are guys out there that can consitently hit a moving target, but come on... deer don't actually run, they bound, they dart, they jump over obstacles you can't see, shift directions on a dime for no apparent reason. I'm of the opinion that trying to hit a big game animal in the vitals while it's doing that is completely irresponsible no matter how good of a shot you are. There are unforeseen variables anytime you're about to shoot a critter, but when that critter is actively "running", those variables are compounded almost exponentially.
Maybe in a small high fence area
I wouldn't take one nor would I even start practicing for running shots.
Yes, but then I am that good.
Some people though shouldn't even be attempting broad side shots.
They are that bad!
A brother and I used to take a volleyball or similar ball and throw/roll/bounce it across the yard and shoot at it which might replicate the bounding gate of a moving deer, so it CAN be done. (Note to anyone else: doing this and getting a direct hit will often see your bludgeon-tipped arrows swap ends and come right back at you. Beware!). We got halfway decent considering we didn't do it that much. Same way any ATHLETE gets good at their craft: tons of practice to go with their God-given talents.
That said, not sure I'm up to running deer most seasons, but absolutely I prefer a slowly walking deer to one standing still wired for sound. Seems every hunting video you watch, there are several cases of where the hired bow will stop the deer, putting it on red alert, and then when he releases the arrow, the deer goes into full dip to spring into motion. I'd MUCH rather take the slow walking shot and deal with none of the evasive maneuvers.
As a number of poster have noted, compounds and stickbows have pros and cons in different areas and this question is certainly one where sticks have the advantage, just like the ones where guys shoot aspirin tablets out of the air. The long standing shot certainly leans to the compounder's advantage.
Yes, I have had excellant results on running shots on a variety of game and at 3D shoots, one of the reasons I shoot the longbow. If you practice and are comfortable this shot is no less ethical than any other. My nemisis is straight down. Just no good shot at that angle, but most folks consider that a chip shot. If you can do it with complete confidence, go for it.
Would I ,no but would do everything i could to try to stop him,as for Barry ,like he says he has done alot of practice shooting and i remember seeing that in Bowhunting Oct whitetails,he is an excellent shot at moving targets and I am sure that he has all the confidence in the world he can make that shot,so for people like that him i dont see a problem,I had a friend that was also very proficiant with his recuve years ago and as far as I can remember he never lost a deer that he shot on the move with his recuve.
I've killed a few that were walking (close, moving slowly and not alarmed), but I would not shoot at a running deer unless that deer was already wounded. It doesn't bother me to kill one , but loosing a wounded one does. Give me a standing shot on a deer that isn't wired.
As a matter of subsistence, yes. As a matter of sport, No.
Quote from interactive shot placement demo
"This is a shot you should NEVER take unless the deer is seriously wounded and you have plenty of arrows"
I would never start running & shoot at an animal - as you are breathing so hard, it's hard to draw the bow back, not trip, and still get a decent shot off...
Why not stop, hold still, and wait for the animal to come to you?
i've tried alot of running shots only to bump into trees everytime. going to try it with a helmet next time
What some folks don't seem to understand is no matter how good they thing they are under controlled range conditions or even with the random up and down motion of a ball or tire bouncing down a hill, balls and tires do not have the ability to change their speed or direction. Simply put, there are added variables in shooting at running game than shooting at the range, and folks who don't take that into consideration are fooling themselves.
IMO it is akin to only practicing to 20 yards and then taking 80 yard shots in the field by saying it is the same thing - shooting an arrow at a target at a known distance. It isn't the same.
As with any sport, there are exceptional people who can do phenomenal things. I don't happen to be one of them when it comes to shooting a bow and probably 99% of bowhunters out there fall into the same group. Just as most people should not take 800 yard shots with a rifle, but there are guys out there that can make that shot with confidence.
This is a different world we live in too today. Life comes at us fast, and no one seems to have the time to spend doing one thing like that any more. When you live, eat, and sleep shooting a bow as he did, you can do more things with confidence. It was certainly the right choice for him.
The other thing that has changed is what is acceptable. In bygone eras, if you wounded one, so what, no one really cared. Today, that is not the case.
So, to answer the question: No I would never take a running shot at game unless it was wounded.
If I were a Wensel maybe, but ethics come into play where I'm from. No way would I launch an arrow at a moving deer. Assinine!
Just curious: For those that say, "no way!" How many would take a moving shot at a rabbit or fox or coyote? Or another smaller game animal? I just wonder why some individuals put a higher value on a deer size animals life than a smaller animal.
As far as the shot - Yes, I would take it if it felt right.
Rabbit or deer
Bob Urban
If I hit a rabbit with a bow, not likely he is going to get away even if I don't get a great shot. And a foxes body is not any bigger than most rabbits in my neck of the woods.
As far as a coyote or other predatory animal? Living in sheep and goat country, would I mind wounding a coyote? probably not. Feral hogs fall into the same category. I rountinely shoot at them with a rifle running. If I wound one to go off and die later, so much the better. Would be no different with a bow.
I have shot several deer that were running past me, by stopping them with a loud BWAAAAT! I have also been at full draw yelling at deer running past me at ten yards and never shot because they would not stop. I have too much respect for any deer to risk an almost certain wounding shot at one that is running. I'm just not that desperate, and I have nothing to prove to anyone by pulling a shot like that out of my ass.
I have taken several deer while walking but never attempted a running shot. If it felt right I would take it. We still practice shooting at rolling tires with balloons inside of them at different yardages. It is fun.
I was never a believer in grunting to make a deer stop to shoot it (could spook them or put them on alert). If they are on a steady walk and you bare down and swing with them the arrow goes right where you want it to.
Mike
A BIG NO WAY this is archery.
me? no and never. even when I was a good shot back in the day. If i was starving another story
I have no qualms taking shots over 50 yards, and have done so when the conditions are suitable and the situation demands.
However I would never take a running shot in archery, at any range.
I've shot plenty of "running" carp!!!
"As far as the running shot goes, obviously there are guys out there that can consitently hit a moving target, but come on... deer don't actually run, they bound, they dart, they jump over obstacles you can't see, shift directions on a dime for no apparent reason. I'm of the opinion that trying to hit a big game animal in the vitals while it's doing that is completely irresponsible no matter how good of a shot you are. There are unforeseen variables anytime you're about to shoot a critter, but when that critter is actively "running", those variables are compounded almost exponentially."
Truer words have never been typed.
If Wensel was not "famous", this article would get laughed off this site, and he would be thought of in the same light as those three juvinile morons who bragged about the long range shot last fall with the devels horns in their picture(you guys remember).
Walking, yes(at close range), trotting... only at point-blank range or at a wounded animal, running... never!
Never is a long time to say you wouldn't. I shot a caribou going wide open. Made a perfect shot. Of course I think the arrow was in him before it left the string. I think it's probably easier for guys using trad gear since we don't have the sights issue, but even then any real distance would make it unreasonable for me.
dont know how to respond to some of this,freedom of speech I guess.Who are u or we to set restrictions on someone else?Shooting a bow is like any other sport there are stand outs that can do what others cant,so then the people that cant say it should not be done,not your choice!In basketball some can slam dunk,some cant so is that an unethical shot,no just some have ability that others dont.If running shots and long distance shots are not ethical then we are coming down on some big name archers,Hill,Pearson,Schafer,Bear,etc.I like archery because you are the only one that can make or break a shot,if I feel I can I will no matter what the shot is and I will determine if it is ethical or not,no one else.The only reason for being long winded is in the begining this was a yes or no question,and then the insults started,so all I can say is those of us that can make more than a 20 yard broadside shot must be unethical,and I am good with that.Good Hunting.
I'm with x-man, I wouldn't shoot at a running animal over the size of a rabbit.
I've only taken one shot at a running deer. It was a nice 8 pt and it was a good shot - dead 8 pt. If it feels right I'll take the shot.
On a wounded deer, yes.
On a rabbit, yes.
Otherwise, no.
My answer? Under very specific circumstances, yes.
I have done it. I killed a nice 11 point chasing a doe just last year. He was moving at a fast trot, totally in the clear, and passed my tree broadside at a whopping 10 yards. I'm not trying to sound like a braggart but under those circumstances it really wasn't even a tough shot to keep an arrow inside the kill zone.
Now if he had been much farther away, moving faster, brush and obstructions in the way, etc, etc, naaaa, there is no way I would even consider it.
But at very close range (0 to 15 yards), with a good broadside target; deer not running at flat out flank speed, and nothing in the way, I feel very confident in consistently making that shot.
Since this is posted in the Whitetail forum, I am only considering deer in my answer. Not Yotes or small game.
I would take a shot if it was open and less than 15 yards (with my longbow). If it was with a compound around 25 yards.LH
I guess if you're numb to the point losing animals means nothing, have at it but no, not for me. I've been around a few "experts" and those deer keep going just like the rest of us on bad shots.
Another way to look at it, is that many of you were athletes at one time or another. Let's take basketball. There are guys that hit 50% of their free throws, others that hit 66%, and still others that are pretty darn good that hit 75%. And then there are the real studs, the Michael Jordans and Kobe Bryants, etc. who can hit 80% or more of the off-balance stuff from any angle or realistic range. They are RARE but certainly have proven themselves on the court that they CAN do it.
I would suggest that you should ask yourself why archery would be any different? I'm NOT good enough to shoot aspirin out of the air or drill running deer regularly, but why is it so impossible for some of you to believe that some folks are capable of this? Back when I DID practice moving shots frequently, I happened to be in Africa on the trail of a gutshot hartebeest along with the hunter who'd hit it first. Jackals were howling so we got on the trail in the dark and jumped it and I put a running shot arrow into the vitals from maybe 30 yards. Probably a fluke, but it happened and I have a witness. So for someone who practiced TONS on moving targets, I have no problem believing it is quite possible.
I'm surprised at how many people here would take a shot at a running animal. I'd do it if I was that good.
I am curious about the direction this thread would have taken if it wasn't linked to a the cover story written by Barry Wensel. It's not a slam against Barry, Pat, or any other celeb. I'd be willing to bet that this thread wouldn't be as "positive" if your average "joe" had started it.
Good point, Thunder. I agree.
A walking shot is a hand full these days!!!....ummmm NO!
I have shot rabbits on the run and a pheasant in the air back in my recurve days. I also made consequtive shots on running ground hogs(2)with my bare compound. I think those kinds of shots are more easily taken with a traditional bow and maybe shouldn't be attempted with a modern compound with sights and so on. I have killed one buck that was walking with my current compound but, I don't think I would attempt a running shot. MO
I WOULD NEVER TAKE A RUNNING SHOT. IT'S JUST NOT ETHICAL.WE AS HUNTERS OWE IT TO THE ANIMAL WE ARE HUNTING,NOT TO TAKE ACHANCE ON WOUNDING THAT ANIMAL.YOU SHOULD NEVER LET YOUR WANT TO TAKE A TROPHY DICTATE SMART THINKING AND EVERY ANIMAL YOU INTEND TO SHOOT IS A TROPHY.
I usally get one running shot a year. I love them...have killed several. Took this little guy running by. Hit him right where I wanted.
O yea, we pratice by shooting the jumping carp here on the illinois river thru the summer months.
"AS HUNTERS OWE IT TO THE ANIMAL WE ARE HUNTING,NOT TO TAKE ACHANCE ON WOUNDING THAT ANIMAL."
Everytime we shoot at an animal, regardless of the weapon used, we ARE taking a chance that we may only non-mortally wound that animal.
"AND EVERY ANIMAL YOU INTEND TO SHOOT IS A TROPHY."
I agree.
Tony
I have a problem with people saying. "No No-Way", based on ethics, but then refuse to consider practising to become proficient on running game. Bear in mind not all running animals present good shot opportunities, but many of us have proven with practise and dedication they are very efficient with the running shots. I don't buy the stick bow is more adaptable to those shots than a recurve. Have you watched the guy on Arrow Affliction. He shoots a wheel bow, shoots running rabbits, flying carp, thrown discs and balloons. all it takes is dedication, practice and the wisdom to know which running animal presents a shot. As they say in some of the areas around here.. "It's time to cowboy up"
Lots of ways to practise, one of the oldest is a rolling tire with a target inside, balloon or card board,, then probably thrown discs or rolling balls.
No....I've had a few too many deflected,poorly,penetrated arrows to add another demension of movement....irrespective of my skillset.
Define running; Is it a trot, or a jog or a flat out sprint. if someone on hear can hit a whitetail when he is in a full out run, you are special.
I used to have a video of the wensels making deer drives. If I remember correctly they never got anything, and missed several deer.
How many deer have they wounded to become "experts" at running shots????
A running Whitetail Deer has to be the most unpredictable critter alive. there is no way you can predit it's next steps.
michael
Not on a deer(unless it's already hit), squirrels, rabbits, yes. Definitely NOT on a hog.
I am not good enough to take running shots, maybe some people are. For those of you who are good enough to take running shots, how many times out of 10 trys can you make the shot at 20 yards? Maybe we could start a new thread, how far is to far to take a running shot?
when I am sure I can make the shot.
No. I certainly do not need to tag out in order to have a successful hunt, so I would not take a running shot. Enough variables come into play when animals are broadside at 25 yards, let alone running/bounding/leaping,etc...
Depending on circumstances, I would most likely pass on a running shot as a follow up for fear of ruining more meat.
yes, He might jump into the line of my arrow.Kidding, but yes
I have taken 2 shots at bucks "chasing does" but they were not running. They were walking but not running. Both were recovered and with ease. I don't think I would take a running shot . .....
the only way that i can think of to practice a running shot would be on a live target. i wonder how many that said they would have bashed guys on other threads saying long range shots are unethical.
I used to go to runnig deer shoots and outshoot all the big rifles with my 32 special winchester lever action. I also used to practive shooting disc out of the air when I could get my son to throw them for me. I am out of practice now but probally given a little practice I could shoot pheasants in the air over my pointer. I wouldn't take a running shot now at a deer because I don't practice them anymore.
Byron Ferguson and I have hunted deer and bear together over a period of 20+ years. I can see where skepticism can prevail among those that have never seen how practice and talent can make moving shots not only possible, but highly effective options on game animals. No, IMHO it's not something just anyone should attempt, however there are a few individuals who can, and do, consistantly make it happen. Ethics in gameshooting is a relative term . . . seeing is believing.
After reading Barry's article, I suppose I am going to have to start chewing "Leafy" tobacco to go along with my plaid shirt and Borsalino hat.. On a more serious not, I don't think running shots should be taken by most of us, but they should be practised by all of us whether we plan on using them or not. Not accepting the challenge or making the commitment to be the best we can is just as unethical as the long shot and the brush shot, or the shot from poor angles. etc etc. Saying "Not me, no way" is just a cop out from pushing yourself. Try it,, you may like it.
Answering the original query, with all repspect to differing opinions. NO. Jeez guys, I have shot a pile of deer, bear and moose. Do you forget that sick feeling after the perfect shot you took at that standing animal and it should be recovered by now? All the best from Canada! Canuck.
If it's a real challenge you want... try to get close enough at a standing whitetail. If he won't stand still, wait till next time, or be a little more stealthy.
what Canuck said is so true. Too many things can go wrong when they are standing still shots let alone moving ones and I don't care how much you practice them. I doubt anyone practices at running shots more than your standard target shooting and there is a reason for that and if you are more power to ya, till you loose one that is. Then what Canuck said will sink in, as well as reality.
the first deer i ever shot with a bow was running.i killed several since the same way.i never wounded a deer shooting instinctively .knowing your abilities your equipments limits,above all ask GOD to bless and protect both you and your aspiring dinner to be.
I love how so many on here, who by the way probably do not have the ability to shoot the way Barry Wensel does, disdain this tactic. ANY time you shoot at an animal...you are taking a risk of wounding it. It happens. I agree...that not many people should take running shots...but some people can. I must also say here that my buddies and I routinely practice "deer drives", and have been quite successfull doing so. NONE of us are good enough to shoot a deer on a dead out run, but a trot is a whole new game. It can be done if you practice them. I'm sorry...but there is a very big portion of deer season where I live, that target deer simply do not move much during daylight hours. I for one have no qualms about "forcing" them to move into position for a shot. I also doubt a wolf feels bad when he moves a deer into position for his bretheren to take down. Keep in mind that you cannot shoot deer you cannot see. If they are not moving...I will MAKE them move...and it does not happen often...but every now and then, a hunting partner will get an ethical shot at a deer that is either on a slow trot or has paused.
Have and done. Its up to the shooter you know if you can do it or if you cant.
yes and no maybe on a rabbit or something small but not a deer because i could hit and wound it and most likely would miss
I do not take running shots. Mostly because the areas I am hunting have shooting lanes, not in a field edge or clearing. Regardless of confidence or not. Regardless if it is wounded or not, kind of hard to access extent of a wounded deer's injury on a run thru the woods.
I also have a reminder trophy in the shop. Trying to squeeze a shot thru some saplings, I harvested a nice 3 inch Maple.
LOL of course deer drives are successful.......its because they are successful, that many states say they are illegal. Because they are successful most consider them not "fair chase". Think of how much equipment you can save money on if you drive deer. No camouflage, no carbon suits, no calls, no tree stands, no blinds, just a bunch of buddies to form a line and walk towards a natural funnel. And on IDNR sites, isn't driving deer illegal?
Lots of rationalations posted. All bs! Don't care how good you think you are or how good Barry, etc. is. Running shots are wounding shots waiting to happen !!!!! And sooner or later they will happen !!! Are they worth the risk? Do you need to take an animal that bad ?
This is a forum for excanging ideas,thoughts, opinions, etc. I've expressed MY opinion which was asked for. Flame away if you feel you have too
A Hi8 video from the 90's taken at the Pennsylvania Bowhunters Festival in Forksville. This running deer was a lot of fun to shoot at. It is a forty yard shot and as you can see. very hard to hit in the vitals every time. I never shot at a live running deer and won't.
Not a chance. Even a fast walk bothers me. You never know when they are going to bound high or suddenly change direction because of something on the ground. The kill is the goal, but not at the cost of wounding an animal with a low percentage shot - it is not the main reason I bowhunt.
Each and every bowhunter must decied for himself what ethics he/she takes into the field when hunting. This is learned from others and from expirienece. One great source of education is the National Bowhunter Education Foundation's Bowhunter education program. The NBEF encourages ethical shots. There program discourages head on, quarting to, shooting thru brush shots and of course running shots. I must agree with the NBEF and their position of "no running shots". If you have been bowhunting for any time you know the great feeling of harvesting a deer and even better feeling of having passed on a shot that wasn't quite right!!
If it felt right , yes. its worked in the past but it has to feel right. never have lost one to the 3 running shots I have made. But I have not taken the shot many,many times
Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Didn't want to touch this thread due to the controversial subject, but Woody forced my hand 8^) with, "feel I'm a good enough shot and know enough about anatomy to kill a deer with a field tip...but I wouldn't do it"
Yeah Woody, me think the same thing too, but you're gonna need complete penetration of both lungs, cause it accidentally happened with me as a younger man and the outcome wasn't so good.
Stalking along a creek bank adjacent a picked cornfield, scapula shot a buck while tending a hot doe on a rainy afternoon day after Thanksgiving. He was chasing her around a thicket along the edge of a creek bank and didn't react much to the hit. He was too enthralled in the doe to care about the complete shaft sticking out his shoulder and they never seemed to know I was there or what was going on.
This was back in the day of shooting a Bear Whitetail Hunter, Gamegetter shafts, and Savora Sweptwing broadheads.
Even though they are now a far piece from me at over 40 yards out, he stopped broadside to give me another shot. Without looking down at the quiver, I quickly felt for and nocked another arrow and took the presented (for me) long shot and watch the arrow arc perfectly to the lungs upon release. The buck crashed out of the ticket hitting the corn stubble at full throttle while I watched in amazement as he ran the entire length of the cornfield with what looked like about half of the shaft sticking out his side.
Witnessed him slow to a walk towards the end of the 150 – 200 yard field and turn along the far edge for about 50 yards or so, then enter the cover of the woods.
Got a good look of the whole thing, and he acted as if he were mortally wounded by the time he reached the woods.
Back in those days used to wait at least an hour regardless of the hit, (or whether it was misting rain), and figured I’d walk right up to him just inside the woods. Not so…
Had a hard time finding blood where I last seen him and backed off when I didn’t find him just inside.
Backtracked to the shot location and soon realized something was amiss.
I remember at first the blood trail was nothing to write home about, then became weaker the further he traveled and in those wet conditions and almost dissipated by the time he reached the woods.
It wasn’t until then that I finally realized I’d shot my field tipped arrow at him with my second shot. Before learning of Judo points back then, I carried a field tip in my quiver for practice and small game.
From there it turned into a blood trail from hell in the now steady rain. Seventy yards or so inside the woods ran an old dirt township road, and by this time several cars had traveled down the mud soaked and splashed path.
When I tracked him up to it, I figured he would have just crossed straight over, but no, of course he ran down it one way or another.
To make a longer story shorter, after a couple days of searching, I never did learn which way, right or left, then how far, and then up or down he went, and never found that deer. It still bothers me to this day to have had two arrows in him and not recover him.
Although, if he survived my pursuit that day he was likely found or killed the following Monday the first day of gun law.
That was a long time ago, and thinking back on it I don’t remember if I recovered the field tipped shaft, but had I got passthrough penetration with the plastic vanes slicing, he might not have traveled so far and now feel more experienced as a woodsman than those teenage years and think now I could have found him or determined if he lived.
Sorry I got off the subject of shots at running deer, but Woody started it…8^) He knew he’d likely get a rise out of somebody with that comment, just don’t get me started on the groundhog I had looking like a porcupine with field tipped arrows…8^)
I would as long as it was unobstructed and the animal was not running wide open and 20 yards or closer.LH
When I was very young I was able to shoot pigeons out of the air with a kids bow. I loved shooting that bow and did so every chance I got. That was at my grandmother's house at the shore in the Soviet state of N.J. When I went home to Brooklyn my friends and I would go into the swamps and I would shoot the rats , many times they were on the run too.
So I guess my answer is yes, but not at my present age.
Ken
Yes. When I shot a lot, I practiced a lot. I have killed deer, elk and caribou on the dead run. But I will only take them when things are perfect.
Great way to practice is a 3-D target bolted to a wagon and pulled on a long rope with a riding mower. Another way is to roll tires down a hill with the center hole covered in paper.
Here is a tip, 90% of all running shots must be done shooting instinktively. Even if you shoot pins and a peep, practice your shots instinctively. Since I shot that way, long before I got my first sight pin, it was no problem for me.
Now...a caveat. I DO NOT RECCOMEND IT FOR EVERYBODY.
After spending an hour and reading all the posts, I come to one conclusion that I believe is the key to all that's been said here and defines a lot of what it all comes down to....
How much is a given person going to beat on himself if something goes wrong in a hunt, and more to the point...does a given person have the mindset of if I don't shoot...they won't die.
I know more hunters then most people here because of where I live and how much time I spend archery related. One thing I will freely admit is that most guys that have chances to kill, especially really big animals, will take really risky shots in a heartbeat.
The practicing theory is a joke I admit, we all know how to lead the animal in shots, but to think that this could be at all MASTERED is way to funny. Most duck hunters that duck hunt more then just a day or two a year still miss umpteen shoots at ducks throwing 5' circles of pellets at the damn things.
It all comes down to one thing...are you willing to "go for it" all in the unlikelihood of an actual successful outcome. And are you ok with that? If you are...cool beans. If you wouldn't do it...cool beans also.
BTW...If anyone thinks the Wensels loose sleep over lost animals, I beg to differ. And I still shoot and have always shot better then both the Wensels combined. Lol
Now how about them through the skull head on shots on elephants again?
Let me be clear here, I have not had a chance at a worthwhile deer running past me within range, and I'm certain if it ever happens......................I'll decide what to do....at that time.
Good read and have at it fella's.
Serb
Shooting pidgeons out of the air? What was your shot/miss ratio? Gtt my point?
I seem to always be unsteady when I am running and trying to shoot my bow accurately.....
I did once, when I was young. Doe that was being chased by dogs. I actually liver shot her at 15 yards (she was flying). I shot instinctively, did not use my sight (compound bow). It all happened really fast and I should not have done it. Dogs ran her into the swamp and I did not find her.
I've done it several times when I was younger. My hit/miss ratio was pretty good on small game. I shot a running Buck at maybe 5 yards once and ended up losing him; I quit bow hunting for several years because of it. I've taken many successful running shots with firearms including coyotes, prarie dogs, rabbits, deer, elk, moose, hog, wildebeest, eland, reedbuck, and others. I've also killed deer with a pistol running which other people wounded. I probably will not take another running shot with bow because I'm not good enough anymore. I'll continue to do it successfully with rifle, no problem.
rabbits, small game - yes
Big game - NEVER
we have enough problems out there without having stuck animals on the evening news.
Responsibility.
Too many hunters out there are quick to say don't take that shot but extensive practice gives you the ability to make an open running shot. Lifes too short to ever encounter a deer that you wanted and didnt kill. If your as fanatical about hunting as i am those encounters haunt you. Ive killed some really nice deer running with a bow and i dont recall not one of those deer giving me time to think about the shot i just made it because i knew that i could. With your bow you owe it to the animal not to wound it but more importantly you owe it to yourself to be prepared for the opportunity.
Too many hunters out there are quick to say don't take that shot but extensive practice gives you the ability to make an open running shot. Lifes too short to ever encounter a deer that you wanted and didnt kill. If your as fanatical about hunting as i am those encounters haunt you. Ive killed some really nice deer running with a bow and i dont recall not one of those deer giving me time to think about the shot i just made it because i knew that i could. With your bow you owe it to the animal not to wound it but more importantly you owe it to yourself to be prepared for the opportunity.
no i would not it is such a risky shot and i do not want to ever would a other deer.
If I thought I could do it consistently, and ethically, then Yes. But since I cannot my offical answer is "No".
Maybe a slow walking shot on a calm deer. Maybe.
Woody, "Actually all I need to hit is the heart."
You will still need complete penetration if you want to make a fast kill and be able to track it. I have seen a Mt. Goat shot in the heart with a broadhead where the arrow did not pass through and the broadhead stayed in the heart. He lived for many hours while being chased all over the mountain and had to be left until morning at which time he was dead.
Back in the early days of my archery, 1956 was my start & B/4 "ethical" police almost all Bowhunters took moving or running shots if they happened. My 1st 2 shots at deer in 1957 were both running (trotting)& missed. My 1st kill in 1958 was at THIRTY FIVE yds. with a 45# recurve & wood arrow. Archery & Bowhunting has evolved like Airplanes & Race Cars. We have learned along the way but there are some who will never learn. Do I take running shots now-NO. will I take a walking shot-YES, if close (20 & under)& they aren't going to stop. I actually think a relaxed walking shot (close) is better than trying to stop them & make them come to the "alert" mode (my opinion). Some will fling an arrow no matter what but those who learn as they go (& care about the animal they are hunting) soon find out was does & does not work for them. Some may be good enough to do this & feel confident. Ever watched how many hits are put into a moving target at shoots? How many are KILL shots? These targets don't change direction or speed, are a straight line & not near as fast moving as most wild animals just trotting let alone bounding or running..
For me, no. I like them standing still, at 20 yards or less. I shot my first deer, a doe, 27 years ago as she was "trotting" by. She was 10 yards away, and I was so excited I know I didn't aim. Simply got lucky. If it is practiced a lot I don't have a problem with it.
There's a time and a place for everything. Well maybe not EVRYTHING but LOTS of things....
The video Woody posted above shows 100% hit and recovery.
What most people on here DON'T understand is those of us that would occassionally opt for a running shot don't jsut willy-nilly say "hey there's a running deer" (or name the critter) and start winging arrows at it. Heck, when I'm treestand hunting for deer and one is at 15 yards my general method is to let it get closer. If I were to consider a running shot there has to be a coincidence of several factors including distance, pshycological "feel" at the time, open visual conditions (not thick brush), WHAT animal, etc.
The most common animal I have taken running shots at are feral goats in the Caribbean and Hawaiian Islands and I'm thinking about any I've shot at on the run and not recovered/missed (except for 1-2 that got into some crumbly cliffs which is just as likley to happen on a standing shot). Most of these shots were 10 yards plus or minus as the animal turns to flee and they generally get taken end to end.
That said, it is a rare day in a rare year that I will even consider a running shot.
How does someone practice taking running shots? on a running shot both you and the deer are moving or just the deer is running but running fast????
What kind of archery hunter would need to take a running shot? I would never take a running shot…..the probability of a fatal shot when an animal is running are minuscule. Oh sure there are those who say they can do it but this is the internet….
Only is he was a buck of a lifetime and he was about to et hit by a train if he kept going. I'd shoot him to save his rack:)Any other case no; I would just enjoy the sight.
yes, Barry's videos (High Noon Bucks, BOWI and BOW II) are what got me practicing running shots, I have killed one wild boar and one deer with a flat-out running shot, and five deer and one boar at a fast trot....never wounded a running animal even slightly and rarely missed....but boyos it takes a LOT of practice and I have not "been there" for many years. Pat I think MHH6 was my last running shot, the year I met you, Julie, Christine, and Tennbow for the first time.
What memories!
I'm sure I could dig around and find at least several photos of critters killed on the run BUT how would you really know, after all this is the internet, lol.
My best running shot ever, about 30 yards. Feral Spanish goat taken on Isla Mona, Dec 2000. The visual hole is the exit hole. This one was a flat out run and near broadside, ALL?-most othere have been MUCH closer and mostly strong quartering away.
BTW, I'm SURE I would have missed if he was standing still....my focus pulled to a pinpoint on that shot.
I have in the past. Twice. Both on nice Blacktails. Dropped both of them with double lung shots. One was 60 yards, one was 20 yards. It was my 2nd and 3rd year bowhunting. Had always done it rifle hunting without a problem. It was with equipment that was made in 1982, as it was in 82 and 83. However I now realize that it must have been blind ass luck, and would not do it again. Both were on the last day of the season also, so that probably factored into my decision a lot.
with my black widow,-absolutely,-IF it were 25yrds or less and the conditions were perfect,with my compound,-not in a million yrs. way to many things to go wrong.
