Tractor / Food Plot Questions
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Recently purchased land with a buddy and would like to get input from some of you who are more experienced. I have no experience but have done a lot of reading including the forems on outreachoutdoors.com which is excellent. I will give you some details of what we are doing with the land and would like to get any thoughts / concerns / warnings. The Land is in Western KY. It is 160 acres..1/2 hardwoods 1/2 pines...currently no open ground. The closest open / crop ground to us is about 2 miles. We are cutting about 35 acres of the pines. Within that 35 acres there is about 7 acres that is flat that we are clear cutting and having a dozer clean out for food plots. The 7 acres in about 5 different plots 4 of which are about 1 acre and one is 2.5 acres. Pines are about 12" in diameter give or take an inch. Q. 1) how much dozer time should expect to clear an acre?
I am looking to purchase a tractor and equipment for the food plots and have spent a lot of time looking at tractors on Craig's list and other places. One tractor that has caught my eye is a Kubota with low hours that is a 24 HP 4X4....I think the PTO HP is around 18. It comes with a box scrape, 4 ft tiller, 4 ft bush hog and a 1 row cultivator. Q. 2) Will that be enough HP for the 7 acres of food plots? Would like to hear from those who are using a tractor of this size for food plots. I know a 50 HP will pull bigger implements and get the job done quicker but will also be a bigger investment. Q. 3) Will the 1 row cultivator have any value for working the food plots? Q. 4) Do I need to be looking for a disc in addition to the equipment that will come with the tractor.
To round out the equipment I think will be needed I am looking to get a spayer, spreader, a harrow drag and a cultipacker. I am thinking these items could be pulled by an ATV which would allow my buddy and I to be working the plots at the same time.
Q. 5) would like to hear opinions on PTO / Tractor spreaders vs those that cabelas sales for ATVs.
Q. 6) would like to get opinions on my eqiupment choices.
also looking to get a good chain saw.
Any thoughts or suggestions regarding the tractor or equipment or any other expertise you can share would be appreciated.
thanks Mike-TN
Mike,I owned a NH 33 hp and then upgraded to a Kubota 63 hp.
One day in the 60 hp was all the difference.I would never get a 24 hp to do what you need.
Get a used 55-65 hp 4 wd without cab.A good staw hat and ear plugs and your on your way.
With the land being some driving distance you may not be able to perfectly time your disking and the extra HP will come in handy.My brother bought a 30 hp and has since gotten a 60 hp and never looked back.
Buy used and $ave.
I would recommend contacting a forester/land management company. Need to get the entire 160 acres on a timber management plan. That will ensure you have mature mass crop trees and new growth/browse for years to come.
As for the equipment, lots of folks on here will know more about that than I. Good Luck!
I agree with genesis on tractor size but if you have allot of tight spots to get into the small tractors are nice. Also you don't have to have 4wd. What are you gonna plant? I would recommend a plow,disk,drag and packer. Yes get the 3pt spreader. Hope this helps!
Go with the bigger machine, as Steve said, if you've got more than a couple of acres of plots. I had a 30hp and wish I'd have had a 60+.
The wide brimmed hat in MANDATORY without a cab or umbrella! ;^)
I have a Kubota B7800 with many attachments. You may be sorry if you go with a 24 hp. with only 18hp at the pto. My tractor is 30 and 26. The B7800 is not the biggest tractor but I have not had too many jobs that it can't handle. The tractor is also a little bigger than the 24 hp models (bigger tires etc.) A buddy of mine has a John Deere 790. Not hydro but still a good tractor. They can be had for a realatively low price too...
Go big, you can always use more tractor.
A group and I have about 10ac of of food plots that we plant - currently we have an old AC WD45 its only a 2wd and its old, we have been looking for a newer compact 4WD now but would not consider anything smaller than that 35HP range.
We plant corn, beans, brassicus, clover and in our soil, we can get away with a disc, a row planter with plates for corn and beans, and an old press drill with a small seed box, a pull behind ATV spreader for broadcasting seed/fertilizer, an ATV drag, and two 25/30 gallon boom sprayers that run on the ATVs. I would guess this would qualify as bare minimum but it works.
PTO mounted spreader over the pull behind anyday of the week. They get tippy - every year we get a couple of REALLY green spots when we fertilize.
To answer some of the questions...I plan to plant clover, brassicas, and rye/oats. I have already done the soil test and it was not too bad...PH of 5.9. Recommendation was for 1.5 tons of lime per acre. I am planning to add the lime as soon as the plots are done.
Mike-TN
Another vote for not wasting your time with the 24..........
I would go with at least 2-2.5 tons on the lime.Go without a doubt to the bigger tractor and 4 wheel dr.really is a plus Lewis
"I am planning to add the lime as soon as the plots are done." - This statement sent some red flags up in my mind. Lime takes time to work, so I wouldn't want to put it off too long. If by "done" you mean cleared, sprayed and ready to prep for planting, you are on the right track. If by "done" you mean planted and starting to emerge, you might want to re-think the timing of you lime apps.
I do not have a front end loader (on wish list)but everyone swears by them.
While your shopping consider a front end loader you may have to add hours to your model search but you will be better served IMO.
4WD aren't necessary until you need it.....:)
I would rather drop down 10 hp in my search and keep the 4WD myself.
I would go with at least 2-2.5 tons on the lime.Go without a doubt to the bigger tractor and 4 wheel dr.really is a plus Lewis
By "done" I mean as soon as the dozer work is completed which I am hoping is in March. Would probably not plant until the fall so that would give the lime 4-5 months. Probably the best I can do for this year.
Mike-TN
I have a 33hp john deere with a front end loader and can pop large rocks out in seconds they seem to grow on my small farm .33hp should be the minamum size it also is 4wd and I would get a bog harrow they chop up stumps as you ride over them seems I am aways making the food plot a little bigger each year .just my 2 cents you won't be sorry
Mike,
Check to see if lime amount is actual active lime. Most lime contains only about 30% actual neutralizing material (or whatever they call it).
Go with a larger tractor. Include a disc in your set up and maybe a plow. Most of what you want planted can be done with hand spreader or spreader attachment to ATV. Harrow and cultipacker are nice, but I wouold buy them later. You may be surprise by what you can use or get by with. Weed sprayer is a must as is chainsaw.
If you have not clear cut your bulldozing area, you may want to ask your opperator about leaving the trees up. They will bulldoze out quicker, possibly saving you some cash.
we use a John Deere 55hp tractor that is OLD... and i mean OLD. 70's model. runs like a top. family has had it since it was new and never done a thing to it! It is a 2 wheel drive modle and we have never had any real problems with getting stuck, just don't be stupid.
Besides that the best thing we ever bought was a 6ft. tiller!! Got it last year and we dont even use the other implements like the disk anymore. I can take virgin ground that has alot of grass and in no more time than it takes to disk it 2 or 3 passes i can have it perfect with the tiller.
Also use a spreader on the front of the 4-wheeler and an old pull behind roller on the 4 wheeler. This does almost everything we need. The roller is grooved so it makes rows out of what has been broadcasted.
We bought an old planter for a few hundred a few years back but it is just easier to go to the USDA office and rent their nice new stuff like a drill or planter for a day if it is needed. Does not cost much at all and makes the job enjoyable.
hope this helps.
One thing to consider is transporting the tractor. Our 54 horse Ford will not fit between the fenders on a low boy trailer. So a standard utility trailer won't work. Plus its about all the weight you would want behind a half ton truck. If you can safley leave it on your property its a none issue. Also, just a note, we farmed 160 acre dairy farm for years with a 45 horse tractor. Including planting over 40 acres twice a year. Its all a matter of time vs money.
ATV spreader vs Tractor/PTO spreader - go with the Tractor spreader. Lime and fert is such an important part of successful foodplots that you don't want to skimp on this implement. My ATV spreader lasted one day. The cheap plastic handle/cable to the gears didn't work very well right away and the motor blew at the end of the day - JUNK! I was doing less than 2 acres.
If you can afford a bigger tractor go for it, if not the 24 horse 4x4 will be enough for just about everything you need to do. The good thing about the Kobota is that they are popular and have a very good reputation - better resale value than most is what I'm trying to say.
I use a Ford 8N and it works for me!
BC
Beware of craigslist vehicle scams. They sre tricky google it.
I have a 42hp International and a 52hp Ford both in 2x4 and I really wish I had one or the other in 4X4. You should really have 10hp/ft for tillers. With our heavy soils even the 52hp isn't quite enough on sod ground with a 5' tiller.
Mike what you are doing is great. I might want to add that if you don't know about it already, is to check out the WHIP program which will help pay some of your expenses.
Thought of another question...I am assuming that once the dozer work is completed there will still be some amount of roots and other debris remaining. Any thoughts on the best way to clean this up? Once person I spoke with said a chisel plow would work take care of a lot of it. Any other thoughts or suggestions. Mike-TN
Dang tough to have a brother more successful AND better looking! :)
30HP 4WD Kioti " the affordable orange tractor " I love it but you may be in need of a little more HP surely no Less than 30HP .. bucket is a must never met someone that said I got a tractor with a buckett but i never use the buckett.. LOL so glad I have it this year with the darn snow we have in VT
For 7 acres of plots I agree with everyone and suggest a bigger tractor. Try to get one that will use at least a 5' tiller and mower, 35 hp min. As far as cleaning up your fields the best way is hand picking roots and rocks into the bucket on your tractor. I've used root rakes, york rakes, chisel plows, and disks and we always end up hand picking. Good luck!
Rent the equipment you need to clear your timber. Hire a local farmer to plant your plots and rely on his experience. Unless you have money to burn and enjoy headaches.
im in the minority, i maintain a total of about 15 acres on our lease with a 24hp MF without complaint. takes me a little longer but i can put tractor with a bushhog and disc and PTO spreader on one 16ft trailer with ease. Small enough that i use it around the house as well.
i recommend getting a middle buster and PTO spreader when you can and don't buy one without a front end loader. I think i paid 16.5k for everything(including the trailer but minus the spreader) a couple years ago.
Mike,
I have a Kubota B2710. It is 27hp. I use this for many things including mowing my lawn with a rear mount finish mower, plowing snow with the bucket and a rear mount snow blower, gardening with a 4' tiller, brush hogging, cleaning ditches and putting in drain culverts with a 7 1/2' Woods backhoe, and of course habitat work.
As far as size, I think 27hp is almost too big for mowing the lawn. For everything else, it would be the minimun I would get.
For plots, the 4' tiller works great. I don't use a disc, harrow, or anything else. The only caution I would say is if the ground has alot of clay or is wet then you will have to go much slower tilling up the ground. If it is well drained you should have no problem.
All in all I have very happy with my Kubota. I bought it used with 33 hours on it. A bucket is a must! Comes in very handy.
Good luck . . . Rob
Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention about seeding. I do have a funnel type spin seeder for the tractor. It works well for larger seeds like corn or soybeans, but I don't like it for smaller stuff. I prefer to use a hand bag seeder for smaller stuff like clover. If most of your plots are an acre or so seeding by hand works well. You can better control the seeding rate.
. . . Rob
Why does everyone have to take out a second mortgage on the house to get a tractor for a few acres. For over a century folks farmed many more acres than you are talking about with 2-whl drive 25 to 40 horse tractors. Year round I use a 61 year old Massey with 26 horse and it does it all, live hyd. and 3-point. If you need to do anything with the mtr. you can go to any parts store and buy parts for a 140 Continental Ind. and have the parts tomorrow. Can't go off on foreign built cause this one was born in Canada. You can find these old ones for a few hundred dollars, anyone can work on them and they run forever. Maybe if you lived in a gated comminity you might frowned at.
I can promise you I will not be taking out a second mortgage. I have been looking at larger tractors and would like any opinions on the ones that are showing up in my price range. 180 / 255 Massey 574 / 584 / 806 IH John Deere 1530 / 5200 / 2130 Ford 4000 / 5000 / 6600
Any of these that I should favor or stay away from? I am only looking at diesel tractors and am trying to keep it in the $4 - 7K range Very much appreciate all the insights Mike - TN
Mike-TN all I can tell you is go green! I have a 65hp 4x4 w/loader JD now and in the process of trading for a 75hp. JD service is primary reason I stick with them. If you do have a problem with them parts and dealers are nearby. I know there are others that compare but JD is the best in my book.
The newer John Deere tractors dont even come close to what they used to be. My old John deere was awesome! When I started shopping for a new one the Kubota Had it all over the John Deere. The Kubota dealer gave me more on my trade of my John Deere than the JD dealership would. Plus I got a better deal on a 30 hp tractor from Kubota than I could on a 27 hp from JD. I just bought a zero turn JD mower though!! When It comes to just plain grass cutting they are still awesome lol!!
I got a 95hp kubota 4wd and a 128 hp case for the bigger stuff.
I looked at buying a tractor and equipment for doing alot of the same things you are thinking. I looked at alot of tractors in the 30-50hp range many anything newer then about the mid 80's you are looking at atleast $15,000 with cab closer to $30,000 After watching craigslist, I came across a 1953 tractor that had been well taken care of, with 7' rear blade for $1800. It's old but I enjoy it, I am not doing this for money so putzing around on a piece of Old Iron is just fine for me. As far as the attchements go. I spent some time driving the back roads and peeking over fences. I found everything I needed including a 2 bottom flip plow ($75), 3 pt Disc ($75), 3 pt Drill ($75), a 3 pt two row corn planter ($30) and a manure spreader ($50) manure was FREE ha!, 8 foot heavy box blade ($300) and Brush Hog ($150). I would look at doing something like this and investing the rest of the money in seed and doing it right.
grew up on a farm, 45 hp or larger.
We have same size of foodplots you're planning. We ended up with a 61 horse, 4x4 Case, with a loader. We bought it used from a dealer for $11,000. You don't have to break the bank... It's has been a major blessing to have that tractor, with the size of foodplots we maintain. One is almost 9 acres. We're even going to harvest the wheat off of it this-coming year instead of just feeding the deer.
I have 40 acres of foodplots this year.I use a 95hp 4wd kubota and a 128hp Case 2wd.