Discuss our H2H Bow Test - 2011
Equipment
Interesting to see bowtech's advertise 10fps more than Hoyt, but deliver only 1fps faster.
Pat, FYI...the links to "discuss this test" on the feature point to the 2010 discussion....
Bob is correct, 2010 discussion.
Didn't we all know Hoyt and Matthews would be at the top again?
I have participated in this test in the past. It is done in a totally non bias way. Tester does not know what equipment they are shooting. You are not allowed to see any of the bows until the test is completed. And yes Hoyt and Mathews at the top because they earned it fair and square!
How does Hoyt CRX place higher in more categories....but loose out overall to mathews?
I am a self admitted Hoyt Fanboy.......but I still don't see how the results work.
Thanks for doing this test - I like to see this test every year and appreciate the effort put into it. Thanks to everyone involved.
Looks like Hoyt got zippo or very little points for draw cycle and that is why they didn't fare any better.
I am with JDoupe....and why is there no draw cycle for the Hoyt???
Subjectively, Elite was number 2, not Hoyt. :)
Why no carbon bow from hoyt?
No pse in the shooters bow??? I would have thought at the very least the VXL should have been in the test. Hmmmm. Nuff said.
"No pse in the shooters bow??? "
Not enough interest in them. This was voted by the Bowsite members, not the testers.
I am curious who thinks they would know what bow they had in there hand with a blind fold on
I would know the Elite, Hoyt, Mathews, Diamond, APA, and Bowtech blindfolded every time, but then I handle bows on a daily basis in my archery shop.
I'm sure most hobby archers would not be able to tell more than one or two brands for sure.
i must say i am surprised martin didnt place better. seems everyone talks bad on them. i just bought my first martin this year, firecat, and my buddy has the onza 3. they both are great bows and shoot very well for both of us. anyways great reviews
I sure wish the Hoyt Element had been in the test!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not having a Carbon Element to compare is crazy. JMO
Great results. Solidifies my decision to shoot Mathews now vs Hoyt as I've shot Hoyts over 2 decades. Love both and am happy I chose another winner.
I guess their wasn't enough interest in the hoyt element either!
What happened to the Hoyt Carbon Element? Last I saw it had the most votes!! In the H2H prologue Its not listed????
2011 Head2Head Bow Test Voting - OPEN!!
From: CAS_HNTR ........ ....... Date: 18-Feb-11
Shooter Bow
Hoyt Carbon Element - 17
Elite Hunter - 14
Elite Pure - 13
Mathews Z7 X-treme - 12
Hoyt CRX32 - 11
Bowtech Assassin - 8
Bowetech Specialist - 7
PSE Vendetta XL - 6
APA Viper V7 - 6
G5 Prime Centroid - 5
Darton DS4500 - 4
Mathews Z7 - 4
Athens Accomplice (32 or 34?) - 4
Hoyt Carbon Matrix Plus - 3
Hoyt CRX35 - 3
Rog, it's spelled "weiner".
Those numbers dont add up if those where final numbers then the g5 shouldn't have been in the test, and the apa and vxl had the same amount of votes. So why did the g5 get picked, and the apa, but not the vxl?
Thanks for doing the test again. I really look forward to it every year.
Guys, complaining about what bows made the test is like complaining about elected politicians......You have to do your part.....and vote
Pat, thanks for the link and the test!
Good stuff!!
Larv
Hey that was a awesome results first time i have ever seen these results without all the propaganda and of course i'm a mathews shooter so i guess what i have been preaching is correct not just by me but others!!
Lariat,
We did vote and it looks like the Element had the most votes yet it wasn't selected. Just wondering why?
Pat,
I think they did an awesome job! I look forward to this every year and I am convinced it is done without bias. Great job!
I would have loved to see how my Element would have faired though! LOL
makes sense to me. i wouldnt have been surprised if it won hell of a nice bow
Makes sense Pat thanks for the clarification.
It's in the eye of the beholder.
I shot the Z7 and did not like it.
Why wasnt there a test done on any Alpine bows? They are a great company and build top-notch bows. Their Fireball, Nitrous or Jim Shockey Yukon can compete with all these bows tested in my opinion.
Thanks Pat!
Would be nice to see a bio on the evaluation team itself (more than just pictures). So many folks think it is rigged, biased, or total BS. Then they find out an independent company does the studies and then they say that they used guys that don't know squat about bows.
I am guessing the guys do know their way around a bow. Would just like to confirm that fact. LOL
No Carbon Element and no AlphaBurner (which was also blowing away the others in voting) essentially destroys the test's credibility in my eyes. Love what you do for us Pat but will look elsewhere for my bow reviews.
Scout,
The AlphaBurner would be considered a speed bow (this report was for the "shooter bows") and I believe it was included in last years test. The reason the Element wasn't included was explained.
Midwest, I realize the AlphaBurner is in the speed bow category, but the upcoming speedbow listing doesn't include it after being the the top vote getter in that category. The explaination on the Carbon Element was questionable as it's Hoyt's flagship bow for '11 and their top seller and selling for only $200 more than the CRX 32 in my local shop. The CRX is a souped up AlphaMax which has been around 3-4 years.
I'll never own either bow but what's the point in voting if it doesn't matter? If they hadn't been the top vote getters in their categories I could understand, but obviously guys wanted to see them reviewed.
Scout the alpha burner is not 2011 bow the h2h test is for 2011 bows.The alpha burner is coming out of hoyts line up for 2012.If you look at last years h2h results the alpha burner didnt do so great.
Pat,
Some people will never get it.....
Thanks for the H2H test. IMHO, one of the most extensive and best independent reviews available.
What? No Oneida Golden Eagle? This test sucks!
Just because your favorite bow is not listed it doesn't mean its a scam. I look forward to this every year Pat. Not because I'm gonna rush out and by the #1 bow, but because ut gives a realistic unbiased as can be glimpse at some of the top bows out there. Any bow that comes up in the top 3 or 4 is a bow that several people fou d stood out from the crowd. Pick them up and see which one you like! Looking forward to the speed bows.
Thanks for the tests!!! I look forward to the comparison every year.
Your favorite bow doesn’t have to be tested for the comparison to be useful, there are enough different bows tested that you can likely find some the bows a local pro shops and then personally compare their results with the bows you like. In the end what is the best bow is a personal opinion anyway.
John
Could it be that Mathews is a sponsor that they did not want to put the top Mathews bow against PSE's top bow? Not busting chops here just enquiring minds like mine would like to know? Mathews is a fine bow and proof money can buy loyalty and advertising right or wrong. If you are a Matthews shooter and like it then good on you. It matters not what which bow is the H2H winner, it only matters which one feels good to you!
Or it could be that PSE did not get enough votes to make it into the test.
Awesome test.My brand of bow didnt place first but it is what it is.At least Elite did get some advertising and i thought the hunter faired well for a 7 1/2" brace height bow might of not did so great on speed but did well for what its worth thanks for the test results.
Tim, horsepucky. Pat explained it, and you came up with this new theory without one shred of evidence in support.
Look out your window, the black helicopters are flying over your house!!!
I look forward to the tests every year also. The bowsite does an incredible job with these tests every year. I do also wish that an Alpine bow would be included next year. I have owned 4 and they are fast, quiet, and have always felt the best for me. Last year I thought I would buy something else, but the Alpine still felt perfect for me. Thanks Pat and the Bowsite.
This is a great test. I drew a paunsaugunt deer tag this year and am looking for a a new bow to replace my beloved but old ultrtec. This test is by far the best I have come across. It seems to evaluate most of the functions of a hunting bow that I am interested in. Nice job!
I really appreciate the H2H every year. I would love to see this type of test extended to other equipment - sights, treestands, arrows, etc. I think that Bowsite has a insightful and fair testing process and I would be interested to see it applied to other things.
The H2H and the blood trail challenges are what makes Bowsite the best bowhunting site on the web.
Appreciate the test, definitely using it to shop for a new bow this summer. Will the Monster 7.0 be on the speed bow test? I am seriously considering this bow.
I really look forward to the results of the H2H each year. I am also somewhat suprised by them each year, suprised but far from disapointed. I really appreciate the work and time put into this. Bottom line is tests like this should never determine which bow you buy. That test and decision can only be made by you personally.
I always enjoy the testing and never understood why people get so upset if their bow of choice isn't number one or tests towards the bottom? These tests still should not change ones personal choice for a bow. They only help with the overall process of choosing a bow. Remember....we are all not looking for the same specs, feel or whatever when we purchase a bow.
Take solace in the fact that if your bow tested poorly it is light years ahead of anything I shot for the majority of my bowhunting career. As long as it suits you....be happy.
When is the speed bow part going to be posted?
Here is the list of speed bows some asked in an earlier post
PSE Dream Season EVO Elite Pulse Darton DS3800 APA Mamba M7 Bear Carnage Mathews Z7 Magnum Bowtech Invasion CPX Strother SX1
Pat,
Thanks for an EXCELLENT TEST!!!
For those asking about the HOYT Carbon Element, the CRX32 is identical to the Element outside of the riser, so just consider it another section that the bow would have been all that much better than the others. But the Carbon tubed riser would have made it a very easy give-away to which bow you were holding if you were the evaluator also. The CRX is the OBVIOUS winner.
Note: The DRAW CYCLE winners were also the SLOWEST BOWS!!! Keep that in mind when you hear a guy saying his 360fps IBO rated bow has a smooth draw cycle.... He's saying it's smooth to him, yet in comparison to about any other bow out there it's gonna be HARSH.
The SPEED should have 2 scores, however, ONE for the actual speed, and one for the ACHIEVED % of the IBO rating the company gave the bow. It's very obvious that some of the companies have OVERINFLATED their IBO ratings. I've heard guys discussing this test on another site complaining about the chrono's used, yet they were too ignorant to see that the chrono's performed well, and the speeds they reported were VERY consistent.
My "hat's off" to a very good test...
Doug
I enjoy reading the results of these tests every year. I do not think these testers are biased and the tests are NOT done by BOWSITE. With that said, I don't find it hard to understand why some would question some results posted here as there is no question that this site will edit or otherwise remove material, or comments, that is "positive" for non-sponsors of this site, and has a history of providing the opposite for paying sponsors.
Does anyone really think there is a better test anywhere?!
Great work guys. No surprises. Is there a way to figure out a "best value bow"? I would love to see the retail prices of each bow compared to its performance.
Adam aka BowSniper, I found a quite a few "Fanboys" who were pretty upset when their bow was exposed for being overrated.... The question BOTH chronos stating another brand chrono should have been used.... WTH?? Can't please anybody. The chronos gave more consistent results than I'd have expected, I've seen variance of 3-4fps over a series of half a dozen shots. The only issue I could think of is that ALL the bows should have maybe been rated 1-8 on the subjective stuff, and the speed should somehow be weighted in with the percentage of the IBO the bow achieved as well as overall speed. It makes the test completely unfair to score only speed when you have bows that vary nearly 20fps on their IBO rating....
'Nuff Said... Doug
Another Mathews sponsered test! Sweet! If he only tests the newest bows than why is there a Z7 in the lineup? It's not new. Also, it's nice to see they put it up against an bowtech thats half the price? Would've been nice to see em put bows of the same value or caliber against one another.. If you cant tell by now, Im not buyin it...
When will the speed bows be up and posted?
Sorry Rus, I don't see a Z7 in the lineup...I do see a Z7 Extreme.
The regular Z7 was tested last year. They don't test "old" model bows, or bows already tested I believe.
I'm very confused on why the Carbon Element and the Carbon Matrix plus were not in the test. I've heard many sources say how impressive these bows are.
The Carbon Element and the Carbon Matrix were never tested because the testers deemed them to expensive for us..
"The Carbon Element and the Carbon Matrix were never tested because the testers deemed them to expensive for us.."
I believe that was more a Hoyt call than the testers....but you believe what you want....
"The Carbon Element and the Carbon Matrix were never tested because the testers deemed them to expensive for us.."
"I believe that was more a Hoyt call than the testers....but you believe what you want.... "
You pay for technology, whether you compare bows in this case, or compare a ford Festiva to a Ferrari, technology costs regardless.
Pat,
I love the test and look forward to it every year. I think you do a great job making sure that is is fair and unbiased.
I will admit though that I was disappointed that the Hoyt Element was not tested. But, the reason has been asked and answered. I own one anyway and look forward to sticking a big ole bull elk this fall....or any legal that walks by! LOL
I tell folks all the time, go to a good proshop that carries Hoyt, Mathews, BowTech, etc... and shoot them all. Pick the one that shoots the best for you. Forget the hype and ads. Forget what all your buddies shoot. Pick the one that fits you!
i noticed the 2011 D350 was not part of this test. I think we all know that the D350 would have probably taken both categories had it been part of this.
Wondering when the speed test will be posted Thanks
look at the price of the bows the bowtech is 4 or 500 dollers cheaper then the rest and is in the comp that tells u something. g5 mathews hoyt and some of the others are 1000 bare
Bowsniper wrote "Does anyone really think there is a better test anywhere?! " The guy that runs archeryaddix said the bowsite test is a "Joke" and he is doing better ones.
Good grief. It's a bow. An inanimate object. A piece of equipment, not your girlfriend.
Thanks for the reports and testing Pat. Good job and easy to see it's made as fair as possible. Great pains to do so considering the criteria and the coordination with the manufactures. Comparing apples to apples in this kind of product testing is tough. Reminds me very much of car testing. The whining sounds very similar too FWIW.
Some will never be pleased. That's a given.
As for those sleeping with their bows.....
Thanks for the test. I already own the EVO so I wanted to see what you guys got for specs. Thought it funny though how the EVO, with no number 1's in the testing got the overall winner!
That’s funny half the speed bows didn’t even match the fastest smooth bow speed tests results - Hoyt, Bowtech, etc...
IMHO - overall the CRX is the winner when you take speed into account.
wow pse is coming back strong since Pete Sheply took the reins back.glad to see and definetly want to dry dream season evo
I own the evo and agree 100% best bow out imho.
For an everyday hunter/shooter, I'll take my Z9. But the EVO is a fine bow. I can see picking one up some day.
I have to say that some of the test results don't surprise me. This past thursday I shot the PSE EVO and the Bowtech Invasion and IMO the PSE beat the bowtech hands down. I am in no way loyal or biased to either brand, in fact shoot a high country but currently looking for a new bow. The dealer pushes his bowtechs and when i told him flat out that i like the PSE better he didnt seem to happy.
Heres what I found; The PSE had a much nicer draw cycle that transitioned smoothly into the back wall. It also felt like it had less vibration at the shot. A tad on the heavy side but it settles nicely! I also loved the grip.
The Bowtech seemed to be much less smooth transitioning into the valley and the bow showed more movement or jerking upon reaching the back wall. I also felt noticeable vibration at the shot. Dont get me wrong, the bowtech is nice....but honestly for the price it carries i kinda expected more.
Although im not crazy about either bow OR the price tags for the performance for that matter, the PSE was more enjoyable to shoot over the bowtech IMHO...
Many thanks to Jon and crew for taking the time and effort to bring these tests to us!! I really enjoy seeing how the bows in the test stack up!
Keep 'em comin!
The speed test turned out very much like I expected. The only surprise to me was the Darton. I thought it would have placed much higher. I do own an Evo and was not surprised at its showing. Very good bow.
Pat why would they use a Z7 in the speed test , thats not a fast bow by any means in todays market , Why not test the monster ,,, strange test
Ps i will keep my oneida eagle or golden eagle lol
Couple interesting things. One is how people speak of draw cycle. When they say smooth, you might think absence of peaks or valleys, smooth transitions. Going by that the Darton would have the smoothest draw cycle possible. But looking at the ratings, people are actually talking about the easier draw cycle which peaks later and lets off sooner, with less smooth lines.
The other thing is efficiency. Same as putting a gallon of gas in a car and driving farther, you put a measure of muscle in the bow and go faster. Bet if you polled people on which bow would win just with names and not looking at the test results nobody would guess the winner.
Monster is last years bow thats why. This years speed bow from mathews is the z7 magnum .
Efficiency winner was Bear Carnage btw. Who woulda thunk it. 87%, too lazy to look, but seems maybe high enough and looking at others in test that would be the all time record.
Other comment on speed bow winner. Difference was actually very little between bows. If you have one bow thats 310 fps and another thats 300 fps thats just 3% faster. Relatively speaking as far as trajectory and penetration, not enough to really matter. That being so, would completely ignore that number when considering purchase and focus on other aspects.
I have absolutely no question about the integrity of the testers or how the test was conducted. But I wonder if the results are really that helpful to a potential bow buyer. The priority (best to worst) ranges, on an individual bow runs the full gamut in some categories. One tester says the bow is #1 while another ranks it #8. I know the test is subjective, but it seems the opinions of the experts varied so much that it renders the test of little help. Can anyone say if the testers hunt or compete using the bow they ranked best on their scores?
Given the critera used, it is beneficial to the buyer. To some speed is not a major factor but vibration may be etc. This test allows you to see information that may influence additional consideration not captured in advertisement.
I love these H2H tests. Pat, thanks for this feature.
Some of you should just admit it......if your latest cedit cared purchase doesn't come out on top to make you feel like a hero or confirm your incredible wisdom.......you're going to whine.
Or maybe you still have some questions and your credit card in your pocket. It is better to inquire than to be a wobblehead just agreeing and going along for the ride.
I liked the review and think it should be helpful to new buyers. If nothing else it gives a good understanding that speed isn't all that it is cracked up to be. It is one thing if a shooter is thinking about putting up with additional noise, vibration, and a harsher draw cycle to gain 20-30 fps but when most bows are within 10fps or less of each other I would guess most guys wouldn't think it is worth it.
I would personally like to see more detailed info on the draw cycle next year, maybe just a bit more in the writeup of each bow. Everyone's definition of a good draw cycle or smooth is different. Some specific info on this would be helpful IMO.
Great Job guys!
I'm sure the text about the G5 Prime Centroid was changed, correct me if I’m wrong but I’m sure it said it has a noticeable amount of vibration then a week later it watered down a bit to slight kick, low level vibration which it states now?
Did G5 ask to have it changed Pat, because it does have more than a little vibration IMO, they have a very noticeable amount of vibe after the shot and all the other 2 bows I shot were the same, it’s the only thing that ruins this bow otherwise it would have just about been the perfect bow...
I haven't posted here in a while, but I am glad I checked out this comparison. I knew when I test-shot some 2011 bows that there was something I really liked about the Evo and I am glad I bought one in April. It doesn't matter one bit whether it won or lost this comparison, but I will admit that I am glad it did win, as it is truly one sweet shooter.
I have yet to hear a deer, or any other animal, for that matter complain about whether it was killed by an arrow traveling at 250 fps, or 350 fps. Dead is dead. Find a bow you're comfortable with---that you can shoot accurately---and enjoy the hunt!! If you're satisfied with it, why worry about if it's as good as somebody else's?! Kind've sounds like the old "mine's bigger than your's" syndrome to me.
