Then your boss killing that ram was totally illegal if he didn't have a tag. I'd be careful how much you spread the story around - you might be out of the job :)
With all of the bad information out there on this outfit, I don't feel too sorry for those that get "stung" by him. I personally have never heard more horror stories about an outfit.
A couple years ago, this outfit was on my initial list of Desert Outfits but after checking them out, I ran and ran fast. Their literature and website are impressive, but a couple phone calls told me all I needed to hear.
Guys have had decent hunts with this outfit, but the majority of stories are nightmares. Quite frankly, I have no idea how this outfit continues to survive.
BULELK1's Link
Ya ever going to answer the question?? after your statement??
See my link above to answer...
thanks
Good luck, Robb
The tag is never issued to an individual hunter. They're issued to a land-owner or an agent of the landowner who has an UMA#, the equivalent of an Outfitter #.
Your friend never had a tag.
The outfitter could book 100 hunters on a single tag, but only one could actually kill an animal. So, unscrupulous outfitters will overbook based on an expected "unsuccess rate". This creates all kinds of train-wrecks.
$30,000 "discounted" sheep tags are one explanation.
My friend received his ram back but the father hasn't. This issue isn't not going to be resolved easily.
There are at least 2 people that have not received their sheep from Todd Rice.
Good luck, Robb
Thanks for the heads up
Also... In my opinion.... It's much safer to fly down to Hermosillo then to drive from AZ.
And just remember... There was most likely someone robbed and killed last night right here in the USA. So don't judge a whole country by one story or some over hyped media garbage
That makes for a weak argument if you happen to be batting 10000
Last time I checked we weren't the ones hopping the border because of how great life is over there.
Not trying to hurt anyones feelings, just stating facts and being honest.
Its dirty, sleazy and corrupt. It is a third world country so we shouldn't be surprised. Keep in mind if someone was robbed at gun point while being transferred I can guarantee you the outfitter or transporter were in on it.
I dont want to make this into a big argument but I would rather go to hunt Mule Deer in Mexico than spend any more time then I have to in Johannesburg.
5575, who was your friend hunting with?
Sonora is safer than most of our large cities. The border/border towns are not. I know two familes (one local and one from AZ) that have vacation homes on the Sea of Cortez in Sonora and travel between the US and these homes several times a year without incident.
Honestly, you are in more danger in parts of Albuquerque at night than you are Sonora.
txhunter58 - I agree with you to an extent, but with this outfit...C'mon Man...And I'm not "busting his chops" nor did I say "he got what he deserved"...merely stated I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone that is willing to hand over their hard earned money without so much as doing an interenet search. A simple internet search turns up horror stories on these guys. THese hunts aren't cheap and I don't understand why people don't do a little research before booking one. That's my point I would like to add to this thread: If you are going to book a hunt do some research.
bulelk1...happy to oblige. ;)
I would have no problem returning to hunt in Sonora again...but it probably won't be with Sonoran Outfitters.
Hope this guy gets somewhere with his lawsuit, at least making it hard for this outfit to keep doing what they do.
On October 18, 2010 my uncle signed a contract with Todd Rice of Sonoran Outfitters to hunt Desert Bighorn Sheep in Sonora, Mexico. On November 18th he arrived in Kino Bay, Sonora for his hunt. The next day he began hunting and on November 24, 2010 he shot a nice 165” ram with dark horns that were broomed off. The ram was aged at 10 to 10 ½ years old. (Pictures of my uncle and his Ram are on Todd’s website) November 25, 2010 my uncle returned home with Todd promising to deliver his Ram within 2 or 3 weeks, which he never did. After 10 months of Todd Rice refusing to even communicate with my uncle he decided to file suit in Coconino Superior Court. He had his first Court Arbitration Hearing in Flagstaff on September 12, 2012 with Court Appointed Judge John Trebon. On October 12th Todd offered to settle with him by providing the horns and cape into his possession. Several more months went by with Todd stalling and refusing to deliver my uncle’s trophy. As it would turn out, Todd Rice defaulted on the settlement because he never purchased a tag for the Ram prior to or after the hunt. Fast forward to April 9, 2013, in front of Judge John Trebon, Todd offered a new settlement. This offer was another Desert Sheep Hunt in Sonora. My uncle was to arrive on February 2, 2014 and start hunting the next day. If Todd failed to follow through a judgment would be awarded to my uncle for the cost of the original hunt plus attorney's fees and expenses. On December 3, 2013 my uncle had not heard anything from Sonoran Outfitters about his upcoming Sheep Hunt so he sent Todd an e-mail. He explained that he needed to know the details of the hunt so he could purchase a plane ticket and make plans for the upcoming hunt. Todd responded right away saying he would get back to him in a couple of days with all of the details. As of January 10, 2014 my uncle had not heard from him so he sent him another e-mail requesting the details of the hunt. He never got a response. He then began trying to reach him by phone but Todd never answered or returned any calls. So February 3rd came and passed without a single word from Sonoran Outfitters. On the 4th of February my uncle’s attorney filed a Motion of Default against Todd Rice and Sonoran Outfitters in Coconino Superior Court requesting that a Judgment against Todd Rice and Sonoran Outfitters be completed. Hopefully my uncle will be able to recover all of the money he has paid out to Todd along with all of the other fees and expenses, so that someday he can go on another Desert Sheep Hunt with a reputable outfitter and get his trophy he has dreamed about. I’m spreading my uncle’s story as we don't want other hunters to fall victim to Todd Rice and Sonoran Outfitters.
Three years ago a hunter who had a tag on Tiburon Island had an even worse experience. He'd bought the hunt, went on the hunt, was given a permit for the hunt and shot a fine ram.
Upon getting back to the main camp, he learned that his tag did not exist! Some government mucky-muck who controlled his tag had sold it to some other guy for his own benefit.
So there he was. He did everything legally and got shat on by a corrupt government official.
I've been to Mexico twice. The first time was for a company convention in Cancun in 1984. The experience sucked. The Mexican government took over our convention center, booking at the last minute and lots of people got either ripped off or suffered Montezuma's revenge.
I swore I'd never go back.
In 2010 I had to go back to Cancun for a wedding. Once again, many folks got ripped off and lots got very sick. My wife got 'the runs' far beyond anything I could post in polite company.
I will NEVER go there again, not even for a sheep hunt if you gave it to me.
Totally corrupt and many places are dangerous as well.
I can fly to Hawaii in the same time for the same price and will not get sick or ripped off.
I have been to a few different parts of Mexico and never got sick.
I did get sick eating bad chicken wings from Buffalo Wild Wings though ;-)
I've been to Mexico close to 20 times In my lifetime. Never been sick, never had what I would call a bad experience. Hunted Desert Sheep with Bart Lancaster on the cliffs of the Sea of Cortez in Sonora last year and had one of my best, most memorable hunts ever. Had a fantastic crew of guys, stayed in a small ranch house on the ocean and could not have felt safer, nor had a better time.
My point is, there are rip off artist outfitters in the States and there are rip off artist outfitters in Canada and there are rip off artist outfitters in Mexico. There are bad places in Chicagp, there are bad places in Vancouver and there are bad places in Hermasillo. Choose wisely who you hunt with and where you go after dark in any of these places and you will be fine. I couldn't imagine eliminating Mexico as a hunting destination before I even went, missing out on one of my greatest adventures ever.
Some will never experience Africa or Mexico because of what our media has created, I'm glad I didn't believe everything I heard.
The ONLY time I've bee sick from food (or water) was from some tainted ice cream I ate in California, so you can bet I'm never gonna hunt sheep in California...:) (sorry Kyle, had to throw that one in there...but it is true, the ice cream part not the "never hunt in CA. part)
Again, you can minimize your risks by going with the right people, but the risk is still very real and still very present.
Those who went and had no problems for the one or two times they went then claim it is safer than just north of the border, somewhat remind me of the guy who gets home safely drunk driving then brags to his buddy the next day how he is actually a better driver while drunk. Believe what you will, but a trip down to Mexico IS a dangerous endeavor regardless who you go with.
The fact of the matter is a trip anywhere here in the states can be a dangerous endeavor if you don't know where you're going or what you're doing. The Mexican families I have worked with over the years are nervous to send their kids to school in the states because of the school shootings. They see what the media reports and get nervous. Sound familiar?
I have sent out emails to clients and even posted it on the internet that this next year will be an interesting year in Sonora. Chapo Guzman was captured as were 10 mid level guys in the Sinaloa Cartel. There has never been a real power struggle or turf war in Sonora and we didn't have the violence there like there was along the border from Cuidad Juarez to Brownsville. With Chapo captured this next season could be interesting but I don't anticipate any major problems. In 19 seasons the only problem I have ever had was having a spare tire stolen from the bed of my truck. Just this past year here in my golf course community in northern Colorado I had my truck broken into twice.
Lastly, people always ask me "is Mexico safe" and my reply is always the same. Safe from violence or safe from getting screwed to death by somebody like the outfitter mentioned in this thread? I have never had a safety related issue down there and never felt like I was in danger at any time but I am also pretty aware of my surroundings at all times and spend 80% of my time on the ranches when hunters are there. I have been alone and have traveled some of the routes used by smugglers and still never felt like I was in any danger but I go out of my way to not travel those areas. I do have friends that hunt those areas and have never had an issue. What people need to be worried about is the Todd Rice's of the world. They will absolutely put the screws to you and not lose a bit of sleep. Its a shame because I see a disturbing trend that guys like him have made popular. They are selling more hunts than they have tags for knowing that they won't go 100% and the extra hunts they sell are almost all profit as they already own the tag. There are more and more people doing this and when you see $5000 mule deer hunts and $30,000 free range sheep hunts you can bet money that this is whats happening. $5000 barely covers my tags, I would lose my ass if I sold a hunt for that. People try to negotiate all the time with me and tell me they will give me $5000 up front and the rest upon kill but I literally lose money doing it that way so for these guys to offer an all inclusive hunt at that price is SHADY! That being said, there are always guys looking for a deal and they'll go down there, get screwed and be pissed.
Anyway, hope that helps
WA WSF gave away a stone sheep hunt, not a desert sheep hunt. I don't think Midwest WSF is raffling a desert hunt either.
There are a couple out outfitters in Mexico that I'd consider going with based on how I've seen them work with WSF. They seem to have solid ethics and integrity.
OTOH, as a resident, I should be able to draw a desert tag here in NV in the next few years unless I get really unlucky.
Yes, ultimately drawing a Desert Tag is the US is the way to go! Unfortunately, that probably isn't going to happen in my lifetime.
Living in Nevada is a HUGE plus for those wanting a desert sheep. I can't begin to count the number of people I know here in Reno who have drawn DBHS tags.
As for the families down there mentioning the school shootings here in the states, it is a very real concern for them and I did not make that up. The topic of safety comes up in every camp every year and I have had multiple landowners and their wives mention school shootings as a valid concern for them. I turn away more people than I book and to insinuate that I gave that opinion solely for my personal benefit is insulting
What you say about people in other countries being concerned about mass shootings here in the USA is absolutely correct.
Thanks, main stream media, for distorting that far beyond reality!
My concern about Mexico has only a little to do about the danger. It has everything to do about the corruption.
The country is absolutely corrupt and I don't see that changing. And you can most certainly add AFrica to the "corrupt" list. My biggest fear about hunting internationally this day and age isn't so much about my safety, but whether or not I will ever see my animal/trophy again after I leave camp!
The power struggle has already been going on for a while lol....
As far as Mexico, I don't proclaim to be any sort of expert but I have hunted in several different places, Sonora, south Baja, Carmen island , the northern part of South Baja( Biosphere)some several times.I never felt unsafe. A few check points made us concerned but never so much as a hickup. I was hunting with reputable people and felt I was well looked after. Same as Kyrgystan, we spent some time in the city but we paid attention to our surroundings. This went for azerbiajan a few years ago too. I never saw the corruption spoken of. The key is deal with reputable people. In all cases I dealt with people I had met at the Sheep Show and always after talking to them over a few years before booking. Can something always happen, sure but I also know going outside your comfort zone adds to the adventure. And for those that don't believe what was said about some American cities , fly into Newark and we can go on scenic drive.
Last thing. The OP was warning us of an AMERICAN we had to be careful of. That says a lot.
jdee's Link
Drummond Lindsey's Link
jdee, this is why I stated I would stay away from the Texas border.
wilhille, there has not been a turf war or power struggle in the Sinaloa Cartel. Read the article I provided a link to. This is EXACTLY the reason why I said that this next year would be interesting. There has not been any competition for Sonora over the years.
Its frustrating to try to have a discussion with people that have such strong opinions yet little to no real world experience. If you don't want to go, then don't go. If you do go then research the hell out of the outfitter and I would absolutely steer clear of the american and outfit that this thread is about.
It's a shame too. I loved going to Mexico. Most ofthe people are good people. Beautiful country. It's a shame.
I am not sure what your boss told you, but Carl is a liar. The rest of you, take a look at the velocity of the postings on this forum. Every time there is a post by Schmitty78, 20-60 posts follow in short order. Considering this, look at the replies, every few months the same posts are repeated (highly unlikely if these were valid posts.
As a frequent hunter with Sonoran Outfitters and Todd Rice, a person I consider a friend in the hunting world, I can assure you the gentleman posting this (Carl's employee) CARL DID NOT go on a big horn sheep hunt with Sonoran Outfitters or Todd Rice as he has stated. What he is posting on this and other hunting forums constitutes LIBEL. From IP addresses, etc. it also appears that Carl has about 20 DIFFERENT NAMES he posts under.
Sonoran Outfitters, as well as almost every outfitter I have worked with and are am aware of, has a clause in his contract that says he can transfer a booked hunt to another outfitter if he is unable to provide the services at the time of the hunt. In this case, I know first hand that Carl's big horn sheep hunt was not with Sonoran Outfitters or Todd Rice, it was transferred to another outfitter entirely. THIS IS A FACT Carl is well aware of if any of his story is to be believed. I would think, if Carl had been on a previous hunt with Todd (I have no idea either way), he would know who he was hunting with.
The only transgression I am aware of is that Sonoran Outfitters and Todd Rice tried to step in and help Carl recover the cape and horns from the other outfitter as any reputable outfitter would, if a similar case occurred.
Long and short, every business has a dissatisfied customer or two, but the lengths Carl has gone to, attacking Sonoran Outfitters and Todd Rice, using numerous different aliases, is immoral and illegal.
Carl (as well as the sites posting his rants), I hope you take all of this into consideration before you attack my friend any further.
Anyone can feel free to email me at [email protected] to discuss this further.
Regards,
Frank Pollard
If I were to book a hunt with an outfitter, and that outfitter transferred my hunt to another outfitter, I would still argue that the first outfitter is still responsible for my satisfaction of my hunt, and their reputation is still on the line, whether they've subcontracted the work or not....
The same thing happens in industry with contractors and subcontractors all the time, but the contractor is still ultimately responsible for the client's satisfaction...
I've not personally done any research on any outfitters south of the border, but it sounds like the OP is not the only one who has not been satisfied with the outfit in question, I don't see how the original post was libelous, but thats just me...
In the past year, I've had three people tell me their story regarding hunts with this outfitter. Maybe they were all liars also?
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I know when I've seen enough...Glad you've had good hunts with your friend...Seems to be a rare thing these days.
Drycreek...30k won't get you far on a Desert hunt in Mexico...
99.9% of the time, when someone does have enough discretionary cash to pay for a hunt like this, they have a whole lot more sense than you'd guess, and that sense is usually a major contributing factor to the reason they were able to build their wealth...
I just want to hunt ANY sheep, and for the foreseeable future i will rely on my luck in the draws to get it done, someday ill pay for a hunt once its cost is within my annual disposable income...
What kind of excuse to Todd have for all the other clients who are out a lot of money and still don't have their sheep back?
Just did a quick search.... oh my....
This was my favorite... have never in my life seen an outfitter review quite like this.....
"Poor ranches. Over harvested. Read all the reviews on this outfitter on the internet before you decide! I filed a bad review on this outfitter on another web site and he contacted my wife trying to convince her that I was not really hunting down there, just doing cocaine and hiring hookers.. Both he and his wife email assualted her and blew up her Facebook page Trying to destroy a marriage with false accusationsover a bad review really speaks volumes about the quality of people that run this company."
I think you won the prize with that find. :)
I spent some time getting additional information and have it to share. The only reason I am trying to help Todd out is because I have hunted with him a number of times and would say that about half of the hunters I see with him every time are repeat customers.
1. If anyone actually paid any attention to these bad posts on other forums, you will see that ALL of the BAD POSTS are from the SAME 2 PEOPLE as far as I can tell. I can't find a third, TD.
2. Again, Carl is a liar as knows he was not hunting with Sonoran Outfitters (this is where the Libel comes in), he was not picked up by Sonoran Outfitters, didn't hunt with them and I am guessing the other outfitter would have wanted him to sign their own contract. Todd Rice set Carl up with another outfitter due to conflicting scheduling, something not uncommon if a hunter (or fisherman) is not very flexible with their travel dates.
3. As far as I know, all of the money Todd collected was paid to the other outfitter, Trophy Only Adventures, run by Hector and Marco Pavlovich. They are Mexican citizens and control the cape/horns. Todd, being a responsible outfitter, has been trying work with them as well as getting them to work with Carl every step of the way. I believe Sonoran Outfitters shares some of the blame in this case, but Carl had the option not to hunt with this other outfitter if he was uncomfortable in any way.
4. It is also important to note, in Mexico, hunters, nor outfitters buy/supply the tags, the tags are sold by the Government to the landowners and get transferred to the client. Very infrequently, this can lead to problems. As many of you have noted regarding Mexico (I happen to love it down there), but much of the country is ruled by bribes and petty bickering.
5. Regarding game quality, most of the ranches in Mexico do not have 20'+ high fences like they do Southern Africa (have family there). This means that a ranch with a great selection of deer or sheep one week or even day might not be that great the next. If someone is looking for guaranteed hunt, which it sounds like Carl was, there are plenty Exotic Game ranches here in the USA, where you can pick you animal before the hunt and they will go as far to tranquilize the animal if that is what the hunter requests. That doesn't sound like hunting to me, but I guess for some people only looking for a trophy, it is. My Grandpa always told me, "That's why they call it hunting and fishing, not killing or catching.".
Anyway, I think I have addressed everyone's comments and questions. I will gladly speak to anyone interested, beyond what I have shared here. Just email me at [email protected] to setup a time.
Regards, Frank Pollard
Sounds like you are doing the "Vast rightwing conspiracy" defense.
Can't get any more corrupt than that!
So what's the problem?
Now that kota-man has confirmed this thread.....as FACT.
Question.....
Has any one that has Posted actually experienced First Hand these hunting alligations?
Thanks,
Good luck, Robb
The only victory for you is to quit. Guy has a horrible reputation and this thread only perpetuates it. Give it up for a lost cause.
Simple question was how many of you guys that have posted have hunted with this outfitter?
Pretty cut and dry question....
You certainly have hunted/harvested boo-coo species R. Hale---have ya ever been around/booked with this outfitter in your travels?
Thanks---
Good luck, Robb
Personally I give everyone the benefit of the doubt on the first or second rumor. If I hear bad reports over and over, along with criminal convictions, I would choose to keep my money in my pocket.
I know nothing personally.
LOL, literally!
____________________________________________
We have this Outfitter in my home state and he gets hammered by guys that have not hunted with him.
I am curious to see if this is the same as with this Outfitter in this thread....
Good luck, Robb
PS--that outfitter in my state is MossBack....
DM and crew get hammered with brutal reports I've seen on MM, but then someone will chime in that ran into Doyle on their hunt, while MB has a hunter in the same unit, and they have always commented that Doyle was a gentlemen, helpful, even to the point of turning them onto big critters that his hunters may not have been interested in.
The actual was much different than the "I heard"
Not defending the guy detailed here, he sounds like a full on Putz.....but I AM addressing the rumor mill.
Have I hunted with him myself? NO..Why would I.
IMO the Mossback situation is a COMLETELY different situation driven mainly by jeolousy. Not the case in the Rice situation.
Do me a favor Robb...Talk to 5 random HUNTERS that have hunted with Mossback...Then, talk to 5 random HUNTERS that have hunted with Sonora Outfitters...You will have your answer.
Question.....
Has any one that has Posted actually experienced First Hand these hunting allegations?"
I have firsthand experience with Todd Rice. I called him when we caught some of his guys trespassing on a ranch I leased for many years. They also left trash on a knob on our ranch that they trespassed on to glass their side of the fence. His response was "the only reason they're doing it is because they don't know where they are" I told him that this was a problem and asked him to call those guys, line them out and call me right back. That conversation took place on January 23, 2012 and he didn't call me back until February 29, 2012 and he threatened to call an attorney because I had mentioned my problems on the internet. I told him to get after it and call one.
In that conversation on Feb 29 he said that his rookie guide was running the camp because the other 2 experienced guides he had down there "had half a brain". He then went on and told me about trespassing on another ranch where he had to pay $4500 to get out of it. He has a history of screw ups down there. I am not a fan of Todd Rice and I am not a fan of his business practices
I told him in that conversation that at the beginning of the 2013 season I would show he and his guides the actual property boundaries and he said that would work. He never called
Where there is smoke there is fire. I would quit hunting before hunting with Todd Rice
Good luck, Robb
This just keeps getting crazier, no wonder these "stories" take on a life of their own. I am not full of myself, but after hanging out with Todd a few weeks ago, he mentioned he was still getting bad-mouthed and I decided (on my own) to share what I knew of the events regarding Carl.
You will notice there was a several day delay from my first post to my second. During that time, I was waiting for clarification on several points that were brought up by other members and verifying I had the correct facts.
1. You seem to be insinuating that I work for Todd. I have never worked for or with Todd Rice, nor have I ever been in the outfitting, guiding or hunting business. Anyone who states otherwise is lying and opening themselves for a cut and dry case of libel or slander, as the case may be.
2. I have used "FrankRPollard" or "FrankPollard" as my as my only handles since 1995, even my Skype address is "FrankRPollard".
3. I have had the same personal email address for the past 10-12 years, prior to that it was [email protected] and even older, [email protected]. IBM sold there international business email service to AT&T and in the past 10 years or so, AT&T quit supporting their service, although some email still come in from that address.
4. I am not concerned about sharing my information either: Frank R. Pollard, Flagstaff, AZ, 47 years old, light brown hair. I have lived in Flagstaff over 15 years which is how I have gotten to know and become friends with Todd.
The only reason I knew to check this forum was because Carl sent me an email yesterday, which I am responding to along with this post. Anyone wishing to reach me further verification can email me at [email protected]. Please add Todd Rice to the subject field so I can make sure your email doesn't wind up in my SPAM folder.
Regards, Frank Pollard
Not sure how my above post insinuated that you work for Todd in any way. All I said was he's a buddy of yours, not sure how you came to me insinuating anything. I have no doubt that's your info, I was just putting mine out there because in your first post you said the posts after mine where not likely real. To be honest man I could give a hoot about Todd or his outfit, I was just passing along the word from a friend of mine. Trying to protect other guys from wasting that kind of money. I personally could never spend that on a hunt, wish I could but not really much of a concern personally. How can you blame Carl for getting the word out? He's worked hard for his money and getting shafted out of that kind of money is a hard pill to swallow! It's unlikely he'll ever see a penny out of it so the least he can do is make sure others are aware of his experience with this outfitter.
I just ASSumed because that is what Carl came out, in a private email, and accused me of.
Frank
This just keeps getting better and better..... this thread could go on forever, but hey what are friends for.....
Here, let me do it this time....
TTT!
Been to Mexico several times and know a bunch of people that have travelled there. Have gotten first hand reports of corrupt federales and some scary situations. That being said, I personally have never had problem one with any police or federale I encountered. Most of the time they were polite and professional. Speaking the language a bit helps.
Remember rule #1 in foreign travel "Though shall not expect it to be like in the US". Time spent information gathering, patience, and avoiding the obvious shakey areas helps.
TOdd Rice and Sonoran Outfitters Expelled from SCI
Outfitter Todd Rice and his company Sonoran Outfitters has been expelled from Safari Club International, effective December 19th. The Hunting Report has repeatedly warned readers about a series of complaints from subscribers and other hunters who have paid in full for sheep hunts with Rice in Mexico, taken sheep, and then either have not received their trophies or have had to pay over and above the agreed upon price to get them. One of The Hunting Report subscribers involved in this situation submitted a complaint of ethics violations to SCI. After investigation, the organization’s Ethics and Code of Conduct Committee found Rice in violation of SCI Bylaws and its Standard of Ethics and expelled him.
As The Hunting Report has previously reported, Rice and his company have also been barred from the Wild Sheep Foundation and Grand Slam Club/Ovis. As you will read in our coming January issue Rice has also been shut out of Dallas Safari Club.
In the official notice sent to Rice and forwarded to us by the affected hunter, it states:
Mr. Rice,
This is a notice that you have been expelled from SCI. As of the close-of-business on Friday, December 19, 2014, your membership in SCI has ceased because you failed to request a hearing in regard to the finding that you had violated the SCI Bylaws and in regard to the proposed sanction of expulsion. You no longer have any of the rights or privileges of a member of SCI. This sanction also applies to your business, Sonoran Outfitters. In addition, the Chapters of SCI are prohibited from having any dealings with you.
On November 19, 2014, a notice was sent to you that the SCI Ethics and Code of Conduct Committee had made a finding that you violated the SCI ethics standards as set forth in the SCI Bylaws. The Committee recommended that you be expelled from SCI. You were told that you had the opportunity to request a hearing in regard to these findings and recommendation but that you had to request a hearing by the close-of-business Eastern time U.S. on Friday, December 19, 2014 or the sanction of expulsion will go into effect automatically.
A notice describing your violation and the fact that you have been expelled will be published in SCI’s official journal.
Richard Parsons, Counsel SCI Ethics and Code of Conduct Committee
For more on Todd Rice, see page 14 in our January issue. Rice continues to advertise and market a number of hunts in Mexico and elsewhere. We urge anyone considering any of these hunts to fully research Rice, his recent conduct, and the sanctions against him and his company before putting a deposit on any hunt he offers now or in the future. Caveat Emptor!
And the best part.... I saw a TV show where they were hunting Mule Deer with Todd and talking it up like it was the best. Lol.
No, apparently you only get suspended for doing that! Not "expelled".
OTOH, we can keep him from exhibiting in the future if he wants to exhibit.
Would you let him exhibit at your show?? If not then I would consider that being banned from exhibiting or donating to your organization.
Either way... Many organizations will not except donations and do not want any association with Todd. Says a lot in my opinion
If that issue ever comes up, I'm sure we'll address it appropriately. The last thing we want are exhibitors who have ethical issues.
