If your POI changes when shooting with a slick hand, you were torquing the bow when you sighted in. Best fix is to change the way you fit the bow grip to your hand until there is no change when going to the slick bow hand.
Some shooters prefer to keep a certain amount of torque and try to control it. That also works if done very consistently, until you put on gloves for some cold weather hunting, or get caught in a rain. Better to simply eliminate the torquing and check from time to time to make sure none has crept back into your form, IMO. It is an insidious form problem that has a tendency to recur.
I've always shot longer axle bows with heavier arrows and only had to do minor yoke tuning a couple of times to get them in the same hole at 40 yds.
It's like a blind man teaching drivers ed.
Congratulations!
I think if you can back that feat up in another post as a proof of it not being mere chance, that will put you in the top 25% of posters in that category of comparison.
BTW, if you pull your thumb back just a bit, you'll miss the "v" and hit the space bar with more regularity. 8^)
What I would try first since u are so close and have a good grouping !!! is a slight pin movement very slight I have done this in the past when close as u are and both field points and BH touch !! if that fails then twist away !! good luck
Several questions to rule out it has nothing to do with equipment?
Is your arrow square per say so that the nock marries up perfectly to the shaft so that you have absolute zero chance of your nock being offset in the shaft straight?
Have you spun test on a tool/machine your shafts to make sure there is zero wobble in them? I am not talking about putting them in your hand and blowing on the fletching.
Have you inserted your broadhead and respun your arrow via tool/machine to make sure there is zero wobble atthe tip of your broadhead?
Several Years back I was shooting Magnus, my was shoot Slick Tricks and Serb was shooting Montecs. We spun test all 3 arrows and my dads Slick Tricks had the most wobble. He said he wasnt shooting them anymore and Serb says Hold on Don are you sure your nock is setting in your shaft square? Sure as hell where the shaft had been cut it wasnt square!
Serb has a tool to square it up, we actually pulled all three of our heads and nocks out and squared up the shafts. We reinserted our nock and Broad heads.
At the end of doing this Montec still had zero wobble, Slick stricks had very little wobble and the Magnus had the most wobble! It was a great education for dad and I.
Serb still shoots Montecs and my dad and I shoot Slick Tricks.
I hope this helps?
i'll try to give you some advice you can actually use or understand.
sounds like you are 90% tuned. you just now need to fine tune your bow.
up and down discrepancies can always be adjusted by nock or rest adjustments.
left and right - always, always, always check your form before making adjustments. You want your bow shooting as close to center as possible.
If you can get the left/right discrepancies out without moving the rest you are doing great. and it is very doable.
I check mine by drawing the bow and coming to anchor, then glance down towards your lower cam, and upper cam. and you can tell if the string is coming off the cam at an angle, adjust your wrist/grip until it looks better - this will give you an idea about how you may need to change your grip - or how much you need to yoke tune. I usually find that both are needed. most right handed shooter pull the sting off the cam to the left - which caused broadheads to shoot to the right.
usually a minor grip change with some yoke tune will get your broad heads shooting exactly like your field tips.
Be patient and when you find the "tune" be sure to practice it in exactly the same form.
Will check the string.cam relationship at full draw as well as confirm trueness of all arrow components.
Thank you all for your input.
Dave
As an example, I took the cam lean out of my Spyder Turbo and it shot like crap. It tunes and shoots perfect with a little cam lean.
now with a minor grip change and practice you will group better and have a better arrow flight - you may need to yoke tune a little - depends on how much you want to change your grip.
Good luck and good shooting.
Over and over people reccommend changing the grip which changes the torque, yet when I reccommend purposeful torque I get blasted. Changing the grip is changing the torque...purposeful torque is changing the torque but you actually know what you are doing when it is on purpose. I found the torque needed was opposite of what I would have thought. Twisting the risor to the left moves the arrows left
On one thread your trying to tell someone how to shoot with proper form...yet you post about adding torque.
Give it up.
As you have found, it can sometimes be accomplished by shooting with incorrect form in just the right amount and direction.
Another example of using incorrect form very consistently and accurately would be Jim Furyk, the professional golfer, who has been very consistently among the top five or so at year's end on the pro tour, and has made millions at the game over the last generation. His golf swing is a looping figure eight that would make any swing coach purple with rage, but Jim has used that same swing since childhood and has been very successful.
But even Jim will readily admit that it is NOT the swing to teach others. He has been successful DESPITE having that loopy swing that CAN be used with great accuracy by someone with the determination to make it consistent enough to equal the swing being taught by the swing coaches. And someone who spends the time practicing and maintaining that swing that a pro does. His success has not been BECAUSE of his odd swing, but DESPITE it.
Similarly the form most of us try to adhere to is the one where torquing is MINIMIZED. We could all strive to induce just the right torque to correct our other form errors or our lack of finishing the tuning job, and we could probably find that sweet spot where we had the combination working and got good arrow flight, with a little luck.
But strings wear out, bows change tune, and archers sometimes put them on the shelf for a few months while they do other things, or trade them in for the newer model. Then come time to resume shooting or to get back on the range with different gear, we would have to find that magic spot all over again. It would be sort of like "holding off" with your rifle to compensate for the sights not being dialed in. Better to adjust them than to learn to hold off just the right amount.
WRT the "design flaw" being the culprit, you might consider how many people are shooting the bows that you find to be flawed with good form and excellent results WITHOUT needing to induce personal torque to correct the flight.The numbers would indicate to me that there are a vast majority who have found other ways to correct the tendency, if it does exist, by more conventional tuning methods.
I remember many years ago (pre-compound era) using somewhat similar tactics to the one you describe to bring my point of impact more consistently into the five-ring with a target recurve. At one point, I discovered that my most consistent release was done by pushing the bow towards the target and letting it "take" the string from my fingers. My index finger would very consistently thump me in the upper lip at release, but the arrow would drill the spot automatically, every time, using that release method. Won a couple of local indoor shoots that way before getting tired of finishing the rounds looking like I'd gone a couple rounds in the ring. Maybe I could have gone to face guard of some kind, instead, but I think the better decision was to look farther for a form correction that would let me finish an indoor round without looking and feeling quite so beat up.
Bottom line; using poor form consistently is one way to correct a problem. There are better ways.
"Like a car that pulls to the right...if you have a loose grip on the wheel you will end up in the privet hedges."
So you would adjust your grip on the wheel to compensate when common sense would tell most people to get the front end aligned.
