Contributors to this thread:
I've been doing some research on Google Earth and I've found a few basins in the Pike National Forest that look really good. I looked on the NF map and there are some gray shaded rectangular areas that indicate that it's not NF land - typically a mine or mineral claim. On the ariel photos it doesn't appear that there is any indication that the land ownership changes so my question is 1. Will you get in trouble if you happen to cross that line (I'm assuming yes you will) and 2. How do you find out whose claim it is and get in touch with them about access? These are pretty remote basins and it doesn't seem like there's any difference in the land from one side of the line to the other, just a gray box on a map.
This is in Colorado...
The only more or less sure idea for you is to visit the county recorder. There should be a plat map with . information on the owner. I have hunted areas like you describe, and many are obviously abandoned. I'm not recommending it, but I have hunted many of these mining claims, often without having a clue where the boundrys are.
My understanding is they are mineral rights, not personal property like a homestead or they bought the property.
It's like grazing on government land... public can access the land, the rancher can graze cattle. I'm thinking... trying to remember but can't come up with public land that is exclusive to any private party unless for safety reasons and then it has to be securely fenced off. Most are managed for multiple public use.
I wouldn't have a shovel or a pan in my hand though....
I saw several of these areas last year in the Pikes Peak area and they were posted and also marked on my land status map on gps as private land. Not big areas and easy enough to walk around.
In Colorado, I would check the county assessor's office for ownership, not the recorders office. I would believe most claims from the 1800's included the surface rights, not just mineral rights. Many assessors are coming online with aerial view maps, and point and click to determine ownership. That said, rural counties with limited population and small budgets do not have good online services like aerial mapping.
The easiest (and cheapest) way is gpshuntingmaps.com downloaded to your PC and GPS.
One thing I would mention from experience, some old mine areas can be dangerous, just to be around. A lot of the close stuff that's easy to access has been barred and grated off. The last thing you would want to stumble on is a vertical shaft.
Good info guys - thanks for the responses.
I had to do a double take on your's Outdoorsdude - I can assure you I never want to stumble on a vertical shaft, at home or in the wilderness! HAHA!!! That would ruin a elk hunt rather quickly for sure.
TMA1010, Patent claims are private and will be white on USFS/BLM maps, if its on USFS/BLM and not a pat. claim then you can walk/hunt on, just do NOT pick up ANY rocks and such as the claim owner owns the minerals on that piece of land.
I have family that has a placer/mineral claim on USFS, and anyone can hunt on it or fish it, camp on it, but don't touch/take the rocks/dirt at all, big trouble if you do.
By all means enjoy it,after all you/we own all NF & BLM lands, the agency's are only managers of our lands, the feds DO NOT OWN IT, we the people own the public lands.
" the agency's are only managers of our lands, the feds DO NOT OWN IT, we the people own the public lands."
amen...
While I can't disagree they should be managing public land for the people, the titled owner is the federal government. They have the ability to convey title, and sometimes they do sell. As the owner, they also close roads at inappropriate times. Talk to the game warden in unit 20 about how they close storm mtn road right before hunting season. If they were my property manager, I'd fire them - but I can't because they do own it.
Oh man, now you did it.....
this is whats wrong with our country. There are mining claims all over Co that are totally abandoned in various states of hazard from collapsing tunnels to rusted barrels of cyanide leaching into streams with the onus on the taxpayer to spend millions in Superfund $$ to clean it up. Mining guys fold the corp or go bankrupt leaving a big mess, its a pretty disgusting state of affairs.
I warned ya, don't get me started on this...I know of one over in SW Co that is leaching cyanide right into a creek that flows into the city [or was 10 years ago anyway]
Re; hunting those spots; the odds are they are long abandoned. Not saying that you should disrespect property owners rights..just saying its a gray area. Be careful if you go tramping around in one of those.
Sorry grasshopper, your wrong. the United States Codes (USC) clearly states the people are of ownership, and the congressional orders explain the detail of ownership and how/who manages it, and yes they can sell off land if only approved by congress and it follows the guidelines (way to many details).
Not trying to be disrespectful grasshopper, but I just spent 7months last year researching land ownership laws of all the different federal lands.
This is why there are battles right now in the supreme courts as to whether the U.S. Government should be handing the public lands back to the States(if they do, the public will have very little say about the use of the lands as we do now). The closing of roads is a management plan approved by congress, that has not been challenged yet here in Colorado, but has in Oregon & Washington, and the people won.
This is why there are battles right now in the supreme courts as to whether the U.S. Government should be handing the public lands back to the States
That is an interesting statement. Which "supreme courts" are you referring to and what cases? The matter of handing "back" federal land to the States is perplexing too. As I understand it, most of the land in Western States was federally owned at one time. It was either purchased by the United States or obtained by treaty from sovereign nations. When the States were granted Statehood the Federal Government retained significant land holdings within the States.
Beendare, you wouldn't be referring to Alamosa canyon would you?
In Colorado, I would be careful. Very careful.
swede, federal courts. when these lands(Louisiana purchase) were required in the early 1800's it was purchased for the people, that is why back then you could go out and lay claim to any amount of land as long as you worked it, and then was given deed to said land, then came territories and state hood.
Then Roosevelt seen the need to take some of this lands and preserve it and conserve it for ALL peoples use, hence the NP/NM/USFS/BLM lands, OUR public lands. (by the way my comments have nothing to do with the Bundy case in Nevada thats a whole another monkey race.) One is lead to believe the public lands are solely owned and ran by government, but they in fact are not, the mining laws, home steading laws, and many more were the governing laws for the people (public) to follow in regards to these public owned lands and there use, the government was commissioned to be the managers of these lands, forest services for surface use and BLM for minerals/oil/gas rights(below surface) and all other commercial uses. As for recreational use, this is the most restricted and wide spread use today. If the people don't speak out, then the government will restrict as they see fit.
When they close off your favorite hunting area right before hunting season, file an injunction to stop it and see what happens, they the government has to prove why they shut it down, in the case for the longdraw area, their claim was safety, and no one argued/challenged the order, but it was open all summer to everyone else, but closed right before hunting season!? right! This is when the FS scheduled a contractor come in cut down the beatle kill, bad timing for us, but NO ONE challenged the decision.
Think about it as a hunter, the state/people own the animals, right, thats why you pay to hunt, because we the people own ALL of them, thats why they call it the peoples animals, public land is no different. Thats why we lost spring bear/trapping on public lands, the people spoke through the vote.
Some of these old mining claims have "no trespassing" signs up and the owner of the claim has been long gone- for decades in one case I've seen
swede, you asked what cases, one is Utah, trying to gain control of all the public lands with-in its state, another is Nevada, there hasn't been much media coverage lately but I hear there is still cases on going. here is a link for Utah:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57836973-90/utah-federal-lands-states.html.csp
Another thats more broad: https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBR_enUS320US323&q=states+trying++gain+control+of+public+lands#q=states+trying++gain+control+of+public+lands&tbm=nws
I thought that issue was settled about 30 years ago with the Sage Brush Rebellion. Is this just resurrecting an old argument that is going nowhere or is it something different?
Here is another link that should shed the truth as o ownership of public lands, little easier to read than USC/congressional orders and such, just don't put to much in the Bundy case as you read.
http://benswann.com/lofti-who-actually-owns-americas-land-a-deeper-look-at-the-bundy-ranch-crisis/
swede, it was really never settled, constitutional laws can't just be changed,only an act of congress/public, just interpreted/manipulated by government. Do you remember a USFS/BLM management plan that came out in the early 1990's, most the people where/are against it, so the gov. scraped it, right! the new roadless management where very much a part of the old plan, and many of the other current management orders are to. Don't get me wrong but we need some of the restrictions to preserve the public lands, but we the people are the owners.
Sorry TMA1010, didn't mean to high jack your thread. As I stated if its marked private you have to treat it like any other private land, but if it's just a mineral claim on public land you have the right to access it/hunt on it, just don't pick up ANY rocks and such. Now the claim owner can fence of any dangerious mining activity for safety reasons.
After the BS I/family went through I felt compeled to let people know what they have a right/own as far as public lands.
Tradi: I agree with what you are writing. It just seems we are talking about land use more than about ownership. Land use is always being debated. Ownership squabbles come up on occasion. i.e. At this time I am disputing some management practices on a National Forest. I don't always believe the Forests are managed properly and as a citizen I make my concerns known. I am not disputing the ownership or what is the proper land management agency. In fact I get concerned when I hear it could be turned over to State or private ownership. The BLM lands and the National Forests don't pay for their management anymore, but since they are owned by all U.S. citizens, we all contribute to their management. The States can't afford to manage these lands very well. I am not sure all States would even want to pay for required fire suppression. Right now Oregon is considering selling off one of its forests to help pay for schools. When it is sold there is no assurance bow hunters can use it any longer, and if things go as they normally do, we will be largely excluded due to things like "high fire danger", or just "NO Trespassing".
Speaking of verticle shafts, It's been several years ago, but I remember reading about a guy who shot a large bull elk during a rifle season up around Mt. Evans I think it was. The elk slid down a hill & down into a mine shaft. Not as bad as falling in yourself, but would still suck.
swede, this is what I'm hoping to get across, is that if you don't like what they are doing, an injunction can be filed and all activity by the agency has to come to a halt(unless safety is an issue) and then worked out from there, but so many people don't want to bother with or to afraid to challenge the agency's, and the governments use this against us.
samman has a great point, if around any mining activity be very careful to watch out for shafts, one area I've hunted for 30+yrs has many mines, many abandoned and even though the FS tries to find and reclaim/fill in these shafts they do miss some.