Does anyone else see this as a growing problem on their land in Virginia?
I only wish I had that problem here in NJ.
In fact, I was just out filling a land carp (wt deer) feeder a couple days ago and I was telling my hunting partner Adolph that it would be so great if we had hogs here in NJ. Why, I might actually consider staying in this hell hole of a state.
Hogs are the greatest archery animal I've ever pursued. I can only dream of having them in my backyard someday.
HEY ! Aint that Owl's neck of the woods ???
;^)
Anyway, the Game Warden said I couldn't shoot it.
The problem is, you can't have a few hogs. In a short while, you will have tons of hogs and what they don't tear up, they will shite on. They root up your food plots, run your deer off the food plots, make your deer even more nocturnal than they already are, and given time, they will be in your yard at night doing their thing. I have seen them hit two or three yards in as many nights where I live and sometimes the same yard two nights in a row. I had to fence off five acres of my eighty ( where my house is ) just to keep them out of my yard.
On my other place ( 217 ac. ), it is a constant battle of trapping, baiting and shooting. We shoot them at night until they show in the daytime, then we shoot them again. My son killed 42 hogs last year. We have killed over 20 on my 217 ac. this year.
Trust me, be carefull what you wish for !
I've talked with landowners in Kansas who suffered $5,000 worth of damage PER FIELD from feral swing in southeast Kansas. Fortunately, the feds about have all of our pigs wiped out. :-)
Good luck to those who have them. Sport hunting has never controlled a feral swine population. To keep a population stable from year to year, you have to kill off 70-80 percent annually.
I also found the following link for educational purposes. Looks like these guys have a system that works when the pigs are very much a problem.
http://www.jagerpro.com/media/trapping-videos.aspx
Takes a bit of time but check them out!
The problem around Culpepper originated in Farmville. There were a couple of High Fence operations that had been Grandfathered in, way back when VA passed laws to stop High Fence.
The Pigs had escaped from there and have just multiplied. They even Raided two of the Farms that had licenses, felony raid style Gestapo Boots etc, and killed every hog on the Farms in front of the Families held at gun point. It was a hot topic down Farmville way for years, in the manner they treated the Farmers who were operating legally at the time. Seems those Feral hogs originating from Farmville were infested with Pseudo Rabies.
Another area is down at False Cape State Park, south of VA Beach and Norfolk areas. Open season draw hunts twice a year now to keep them in check.
Now if we can just keep Owl from baiting those VA Beach Pigs, things can get better down there.
;^)
I like hogs more than deer, at least more than the NJ runt deer I hunt here at home. I'd trade every one of them for a pile of hogs in a heartbeat.
I don't plant food plots here on my sprawling 1.75 acre ranch (my house, yard and driveway take up most of the acreage, btw), I just fill a feeder with corn. I don't have a "hit list" based on trail cams of bucks that are roaming my property. I don't grieve over how big a buck might be next year because there is no next year and I know it.
I simply wait till the wind blows towards my house (NE), silently walk my manicured lawn to a treestand on the edge, kill a deer 10 minutes after my feeder goes off, and throw it in the freezer.
That's the pathetic reality of NJ deer hunting for me.
But I am fortunate that I get to spend one long Spring weekend every year in Texas hunting my favorite species. Hogs are the perfect bowhunting animal. Hogs are bad ass. Hogs have personality. Personality goes a long way
tonyo6302's Link
From Freedom.org in 2006
Hogs Massacred in Virgina: Who's Animals are Next?
By Jane Williams
October 03, 2006
At 5:00 AM on September 12, 2006, Cindi and Danny Henshaw were awakened by their local Virginia game warden, who arrested Danny on an apparently trumped up Class 2 Misdemeanor charge and took him from his Willis River Hunting preserve for supposedly, “operating a mammalian hunting enclosure without a permit.” As soon as Danny was out of the way, 9 SUVs and pickups, 4 wheelers, and numerous heavily armed agents entered the Henshaw property with a Quarantine Order and began shooting Henshaw’s hogs and sheep with 12 gauge shotguns.
Some 270 shell casings were also found. Individuals participating in the attack were Virginia game wardens, USDA employees, and Virginia Department of Agriculture employees. At the Henshaw’s farm, the Virginia State Veterinarian appeared to be in charge. Some of the invaders wore jeans and sweat shirts with USDA lettering. Others wore white clothing that appeared to be hazardous materials suits. These were probably Virginia Department of Agriculture employees. They sure weren’t hunters, since they mostly used shotguns to kill the livestock and could not hit the scurrying young pigs.
Danny was released from custody in 2 hours and allowed to return to the farm where he and Cindi were controlled around the clock by armed guards from September 12th through September 22nd . Cindi’s name did not appear on any of the documents, yet she was held at gun point for 10 days. Their home was not searched and none of their fire arms or archery equipment was seized.
Eugene Davis had a hog breeding farm and a hog hunting reserve near Farmville, Virginia. Both of his farms came under attack at the same time the Henshaw farm was attacked. A command center had been set up to coordinate the raids. Danny could hear their commands being given out over the radio as he was being transported to the courthouse. The raid orders were given just after it was radioed in that Danny was off of his property.
On September 22nd , the attackers withdrew after killing Henshaw’s sheep and at least 79 hogs. To trick them into the open, animals were starved and then baited with corn, but the raiders still could not kill all of the hogs. On September 26th , the Henshaws still knew little about why their hunting operation was attacked. About all they knew was that an agent supposedly reported that he had hunted at their reserve in May and, according to the agent, the hog that he shot had probably been infected with pseudorabies.
The agent returned on September 9^th and killed another hog that supposedly tested positive for pseudorabies. The Henshaws were not provided with any test reports—only statements. [It is doubtful that blood from a hog shot at the hunting reserve would have been viable for testing because of the time lapse from the death of the animal and the testing of the blood unless proper refrigeration techniques were used.] Danny and Cindi were held under armed guard around the clock and not allowed to move around to see what was taking place or to film the events.
Attachments to the Quarantine Order stated that Henshaws would be charged for the costs of the depopulation, including man hours, and the incineration of their animals. The hogs that were shot were apparently not tested on the farm, but their carcasses were loaded on trailers and hauled away for incineration as blood poured through the slats as the trailers rolled down the road. On September 27th , the Henshaws were informed that blood from 15 of the slaughtered hogs had tested positive for pseudo rabies.
[Two veterinarians have stated that improperly collected and improperly refrigerated blood will produce false positive pseudorabies results.]^
The Henshaws were prevented by armed guards from entering what the agents called, “the compound,” where most of the animals were being slaughtered. Two 5 ½ year old pet hogs that as babies had been bottle fed in the Henshaw home from the time the pigs were 3 days old were housed on property with a separate deed from the hunting preserve. They were shot in their pen and their bleeding carcasses were dragged across the driveway where they had once followed the Henshaws around like pet dogs.
On September 22nd , the agents departed because they decided that they could not kill all of the hogs. Danny agreed to feed the hogs corn until they were de-stressed and then kill the remaining hogs. He would have agreed to anything to get the gun slingers off of his property. He was ordered not to do anything with the pigs other than feed them. That apparently included treating wounded pigs and drawing blood for testing. The Quarantine Order attachments stated that the herd must be eradicated within 15 days to prevent the State of Virginia from losing its “pseudorabies free status”. The Quarantine Order states, “kill animals within enclosure.” Enclosure under Virginia law refers to the entire hunting reserve. The Quarantine Order and the Destruction and Disposal Order are both dated September 12, 2006.
Raiders violated almost every Virginia regulation dealing with pseudorabies.
Virginia and Arkansas laws on pseudorabies depopulation are similar, but do not have the same time lines. Arkansas regulations allow 180 days for sell out for slaughter before an order of mandatory destruction is issued. Pseudorabies infected hogs are safe for human consumption.
The Henshaws should have been allowed to sell their hogs for slaughter or rendering, if pseudorabies had been detected, but they were not allowed to test, confirm the presence of pseudorabies, or sell their hogs. They were only allowed to listen to the gunshots and hear the screaming, wounded, dying hogs.
Danny Henshaw is a nationally known archer (consistently ranking in the top 10 in the US), a highly respected hunter, a well known hunting film maker, and sought after hunting guide. He and Cindi had operated their hunting preserve for 16 years, and it had been grand-fathered in by the Commonwealth’s Attorney to grant it “status” as new Virginia regulations were enacted.
[It appears that regulations were enacted that removed the “grandfather” status, but farmers with that status were not informed that their status had been changed.]
Danny had worked as an undercover narcotics agent and a swat team member. He said that this attack goes well beyond his experience as a law officer. Willis River Hunting, located near Gladstone, Virginia, offered guided hunting trips for Russian boar, trophy rams, and sheep. No adult animals remain at Willis River Hunting. The massacre destroyed the Henshaw’s primary business. They offer turkey hunts in Virginia and Kansas and deer hunts in Virginia and Kansas. Danny has even taken some rather famous Governor Clinton security guards turkey hunting and participated in making hunting films in Oklahoma.
Sue Karber traveled to the Henshaw farm from her farm in Oklahoma to verify the details that this article has provided. On September 27th , she reported that the farm had been trashed by the “law enforcers”. They left human fecal matter near the home, toilet paper on the ground, trash from snacks and meals everywhere, severely damaged the roads, and left shell casings scattered about. Even after hard rains and the passage of time, she said that blood and its smell were everywhere.
Copies of documents pertaining to the Henshaw attack were provided to Karber by the Michael J. Brickhill.
Law Corporation, that is representing Henshaw. Karber placed these documents on the floor of her car with other paraphernalia on top of them. When she unlocked the car to get them, after a brief sleep in a motel that was located about three hours away from the Henshaw farm, she discovered that the documents regarding the Henshaw raid were gone. Other documents were still there as were items of value such as a DVD player, many DVDs, and other things of value. Only the Henshaw documents were missing. Fortunately she had faxed these documents to many people before they were stolen. AFV has copies of the stolen documents.
Since it's illegal to hunt them, people quit buying them in Texas or Oklahoma and bringing them to Kansas to be released. (Yes, it was illegal, but still done.)
Hunting also scatters the pigs, which makes trapping and helicopter gunning much harder.
If Ilinois is only allowing feral hogs to be shot during deer season, you are gonna be quite familiar with them in a few years.
Va, I have visited that website and made a gate on my 40' corral trap like they use. I can't use their camera/trigger setup 'cause I can't get the cell service at my trap location. I still manage to trap some hogs, but mostly the young/dumb ones. The big sows and boars hardly ever venture inside
Some say that You will have an easier time getting GPS coordinates of a hot buck hunting spot than the location of recent hog sightings.
Funny to see you post that here. Danny Henshaw is one of my best friends. That was a terrible thing that happens to them. He's the finest hunter I've ever known and a fantastic individual. Unfortunately they never had justice served as they didn't have the money to get a lawyer. I'm confident they had a very strong case.
Some of us never forget a gross injustice like that. Someday those who participated will get their due justice. They better hope I am not the Jury Foreman.
When the Featherfin WMA opened in Farmville, I drew a tag the very first year. Talk of that Jack Boot operation was still all the rage with the local hunters, both White hunt clubs and Black hunt clubs. I am thinking those folks at Gladstone and Farmville wont be forgetting that any too soon.
Not too long after the Gestapo Raid out at Dannys, the Director of the VA Dept of Game and Inland Fisheries and other top administrators were busted using tax payer dollars going on guided hunts, some at high fence operations.
All seems to be well now, the new Director, Bob Duncan, is a highly respected hunter.
I also used to work with a member of the Nichols Family, out of Western Kentucky.
You can google their family name, and the travesty heaped upon them by the Tennessee Valley Authority and Federal Government, taking their land down at Land Between the Lakes, then leasing it out to others.
AHhhh, sorry, I digress from the Subject Thread - sorry.
Tony
The most over blown "epidemic" ever contrived for reality TV and the media searching for a headline. Hogs have been running wild for 500 years with not to many folks worrying about them. Anyone who thinks they could ever be a well establish north of the southern states has never hog hunted.
And for the guys in the south completing about them? Stop putting out feeders, food plots and water tanks and you ain't going to have a hog "problem". Deer can manage ok and really don't need your help.
.
I'm sure you are very knowlegable about Michigan, but I think " us Southern guys " have a teeny bit more insight into the feral hog problem. Feeders and food plots didn't cause our hog problem, and getting rid of them won't fix it. Thanks anyway.
Not true. Hogs do way more damage than deer, animal per animal, and reproduce so much faster.
And people are already complaining about deer.
True Drycreek. These things have been thriving since the 1540s when they escaped from DeSoto and Coronado.
private land, couldn't cajole permission. Nat'l Forest line is a couple miles away, Snikie and I will be hitting that later today
private land, couldn't cajole permission. Nat'l Forest line is a couple miles away, Snikie and I will be hitting that later today
You need some diesal fuel and corn? ;)
So there you go, let the hunting public on your land for free, stop the feed and water and you won't have anything to complain about.
$50 for a hog tail.
It has been a couple of years since I had Family members stationed there, but at that time the bounty system was in place and working well.
Still,I will stick by my statement that feeders and foodplots did not cause our hog problem. And don't hold your breath waiting on us to" let the hunting public on our land for free ". It ain't gonna happen ! All that would get us is a pain in the ass.
Our Parks and Wildlife didn't get on this as they should have, but hell, they still recommend killing all spike bucks, so I don't expect much out of them. IMO, they should have made hauling or transporting feral hogs illegal twenty years ago. That might have helped. Oh, and " hunting hogs " is not quite the same as having hogs rooting up your yard, hay meadow, etc.
I realize you have property rights so don't misunderstand my statement. And while your not intentionally feeding and watering your hogs, they are opportunists that are being attracted and held on your property by the resources you provide them. God Bless
We've shot them where they were ripping into thousands of acres of assorted planted crops. Silly farmers, making their own pig problem!
And as of yet, sport hunting has NEVER controlled a feral swine problem. To keep a population static, you have to kill off 70-80 percent of the population per year.
So, if a rancher has 300 pigs on his place he'd have to kill off a minimum of 210 every year, just to keep the number at 300. They're too smart to let sport hunters be that successful. And you'd have to do it every year.
If you have one neighbor who's not doing the same, even killing that 210 annually won't be enough.
We have two landowners in southeast Kansas who won't allow hog trapping or aerial gunning on their lands, because they enjoy hunting the pigs with dogs. (Otherwise compliance has been about 100-percent amid 250-plus other Kansas landowners.
Meanwhile, their neighbors lose dozens of acres of crops to the pigs at night to the tune of up around $500 per acre, not including input prices.
Pigs have always been in and out on the place I live on, which is 87 ac. of mostly high ground ( wooded ). However, they don't do much damage, mostly 'cause I don't have anything to damage except my yard. They are fenced out of that. They would rather root where there is softer ground and something to root for.
They came with the 217 ac. that I bought about 6 yr. ago. Kinda like a gift that you really didn't want .They don't hurt me much there either 'cause we make it pretty hot on 'em. But they do thousands of dollars worth of damage to cattlemen and farmers in this state. If I just let them run amuck, I couldn't have an unrooted square foot of ground on my place. You can't mow behind them or hardly even drive a pickup where they have rooted.
Yes, I keep two feeders going year 'round but only because if they are gonna be there ( and they are regardless ) I want to know where I can shoot them. No feeders or food plots on my home place and I got 'em just the same. The only reason I don't have more at home is because of the hard, poor ground. Since the drought killed most of my hardwoods, I expect I'll have even fewer there.
Hunting hogs is like your mother-in-law visiting. HAVING hogs is like her coming to live with you, if you get my drift.
With apologies to all mothers-in-law.
I here she is a regular at Blue Petes all you can eat!!!
Do the math. The population grows exponentially, so it takes time, but now its in the millions of pigs in the nation.
We went from hogs in 19 states about 25 years ago to 40 or more now.
That's because of food plots and feeders, especially in the states were feeders are illegal.
Again, the places they've caused problems in Kansas, Missouri and northern Oklahoma have been ag fields.
So, you're laughing at those farmers, and thinking they deserve it?
I appreciate the offer but..... Just bought a Wicked light for the 6.8 SPC. Figured I would try and bait them in after archery and muzzle loader season. Heck, might even put the light on my Tac Elite to see if I can stick one at night. I have it sighted in out to 80 yards. Love modern crossbow technology!
I initially contacted the Virginia Game and Inland Fishery who referred a guy from the Department of Agriculture to me. Spoke to him on the phone and he expressed an interest in setting up a trap so they could test for pseudorabies before they are then killed. Pseudorabies (PRV) is a major viral disease manifested in swine by signs and lesions that vary among different age groups. This can be a concern for even hunters who must take care when field dressing the pig.
He also advised there was a farm in Virginia this year where a Sounder of 20 cleared 11 acres of corn in one night. Looks like it is going to be an interesting year for hunting. I am hoping to kill a few before the rifle season kicks in. Other hunters in the area use dogs and it will be difficult to determine where the pigs will go when this happens. I usually quit hunting when this occurs so I will let the Department of Agriculture come in at that time to see if they trap them. Based on the information I received the population of a sounder can quadruple within a year.
The cause is two fold;
1. Feral Pigs 2. Coyotes
The Deer numbers on Fort Rucker are waaaaaay down. Fawn Survival is dismal.
The Pigs are booming there, but that is about to end.
( Spoken with my best imitation of a Culpepper dialect )
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-wild-pigs-ravaging-the-u-s-be-stopped/
Enjoy.
Note to tonyo6302, It is Culpeper. Good one though.
Where I live, Fredericksburg, the City has been invaded by Yankees . . . again . . . and they brought their Liberal Politics with them :-(
Will keep you all up to date on any more pig pics.
tonyo6302's Link
tonyo6302's Link
You guys like to say killinstuff is wrong but, think about it. They have become a problem rather recently in a lot of areas because of landowner patterns recently seen. Leasing hunting rights is king in the areas they thrive. No longer are hunters met with the invitation to come hunt openly. You have to pay to kill the nuisance. Private property rights are that but, it becomes hard to recognize a "problem" when a typical hog hunt for me cost more than what a Colorado elk hunt costs. I'm not complaining, just saying save your breath about the epidemic problem they are to agriculture. It is a fixable thing. It will forever be a constant effort in some places but, it isn't recognized as a problem by those that are responsible for the security they needed to become everyone's problem. So, there is no need to quote state damage estimates and such to prove your point. As the same people responsible for their successful exploitation, are the same people who capitalize off it. You show me a farm that has a lot of hog damage, I'll show you the same farm that doesn't allow hunting by anyone, expects to be paid an outrages lease fee or kill price to hunt them, or one or both. There are many more effective ways to handle a “problem” in this case than the way it is being done.
30 years ago, the DNR here released them on purpose in a four county region. They thrived for a decade or more, expanding their range and creating a lottery draw hunt in a 4 county area. Things were grand as the land base was mostly corporate owned by coal and timber and all allowed open hunting. The whole region they were released in is extremely rugged, hard to access, and contained a lot of impenetrable cover. Everybody was happy. Local Homes were located in the valleys below those rugged mountains and hollows. The hogs clicked right along until they discovered all those yummy gardens in everybody's yard.
War was declared on them by the locals. Shoot'em, poison them, burn out the woods, whatever it took. To this day, they have become nearly eradicated in the original 4 county area. Ironically, they are becoming a problem in adjoining counties where private property protects them. I'm not guessing about this. I live/lived in these areas. I've seen the assault unleashed on the hogs. In any of the 4 original county's, the DNR no longer even tries to control access to hunt permits because in their own words, "of the utter failure of the stocking effort". They kill a handful of hogs there still but, were talking 80-100 every year checked in, over a 150,000-200,000 acre area. Hardly a problem. And, with no protection from anyone, nor a safe zone to hide in, not ever going to be a problem here again. It could be the same everywhere else. We aren’t special .
I'm not saying the damage they cause isn't real. I'm not saying you are guilty of the damage they cause you. I'm not saying anything but the obvious. As a landowner, it is your right to allow or not allow hunting for them. Just like it is the farmers right who protects them with excess fees to deny open hunting. But, it hardly becomes believable that they are this huge threat, uncontrollable, etc... when the reasons for their spread are obvious.
I hate it for guys like drycreek. I know he didn't ask for them. But, if everyone would get their priority on eliminating the problem they pose, it is easily obtainable. If they can be controlled and nearly eradicated in area that averages 60-80% slopes, thick cover you CANNOT navigate, terrain so rough only seeing it in person gives you an idea of how vast and rugged it is, they can be controlled/exterminated anywhere. You just have to have everyone trying to do that. Up to this point, you have most talking about it but, few actually doing it. God Bless
I don't know of any farmer that " protects " them, they just don't want a bunch of guys on their place that they don't know and trust. In my neck of the woods, we have very few farmers, as this is mostly cattle country. Land is fragmented, almost every sizeable place has deer hunters, and nobody wants others crawling all over their deer woods. That said, lots of landowners do give hog-doggers permission to run hogs in the off season. As stated, fragmented property , and that leads to said doggers running their dogs on places that they don't have permission to hunt. That also causes problems. I've experienced this on my place.
We have had hogs for years, but mostly in the large drainages. People trapping and transplanting hogs exacerbated this problem until now we cannot control them through " sport hunting ". When you pressure them, they go nocturnal over night. And make no mistake, they are as smart as the biggest buck in the woods, and have a better nose, or maybe simply will not tolerate as much man smell and intrusion. Nite time is the rite time !
A farmer or cattlemen is the same in this situation. You confirmed exactly my point with not wanting anyone on your place you don't trust. Same with most, as you said. You want hogs or you want less hogs? I really understand why you feel the way you do. I'm not saying it is wrong. I'm just saying exactly what you are. I'm a landowner too. Unless everyone of your neighbors equally participated, your efforts to allow more "untrusting" people would be in vain. It doesn't change the way it is and the results from it.
I guess it can be easily said that if you are picking a situation that allows for more hogs versus less hogs, you are indeed choosing to protect them in some capacity versus allowing the hunting of them. It is a choice you all have made. And those the financially benefit from the hog, that get retribution on top of that, are doing nothing but better protecting their monetary gains currently and in the future. With no incentive to make the best decision, the one that pays gets the nod.
I know about their nocturnal natures and how smart they are. See my previous post about living amongest them and hunting them in a couple different states. If they acted like big bucks, which is a common complaint, the pressure would move them off your place. You have said it here, you watch your exposure to the woods due to protecting your deer hunting. I certainly understand why. I just don't understand why their wit is so commonly used as a reason to why they don't commit suicide over corn feeders.
I'm not claiming to know it all. I'm not claiming to know your exact situation. I am claiming exactly what I said and, you have verified it in many ways with your response. I respect your opinion. I just don't buy it. I know your doing all you can. I just KNOW everyone isn't. If they were, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
From the outside of the deep south, you here the same complaints from within. All say it is helpless to try anything but what they are doing. Yet all say I don't trust anyone to come kill them, or I don't think farmers or cattlemen are the problem. They try and compare topography or obstacles that provide a superior habitat for hiding down there to win the argument. It is laughable, yet you hear it commonly. The one true variable all problem areas exhibit is the fact that these epidemic problems ONLY exist in states or areas that is predominantly private property. Maybe, just maybe a different approach from the one that hasn't worked, is the answer to the situation down there. It sure worked well here. Remember, we don't have a hog problem now. We once did but, that is a thing of the past.
I'm certain you haven't looked, as you have no need but, hog hunts aren't cheap, the combo deals aren't long, and in many states, requires a license to hunt. That's another cost added on. Problem? I don't think so or see it that way, with the way things are handled. If all forms of taxpayer and private insurance restitution was stopped for the damage they caused, it would vastly be handled differently by everyone.
I'm not being wise. I'm not belittling your stance. I'm just stating the blatantly obvious reality of it. If they ever become a problem here again, I'll rethink my opinion. Until then, I've got the proof and the problem areas have the burden. Good luck my friend and God Bless
And again, the hog "problem" is man made and on private land. Stop feeding them. There are damn few places across the South a guy can just bale out of the truck on public land and have a fair chance of even seeing pork. Georgia is about the only state. The rest of the country, killing a hog of public land is equal to killing a really nice buck.