Are the deer eating them once they turn?
Will they eat them late season?
I have a stand in an amazing cove with a creek behind me a small lane of beans and then woods in front of me....its an awesome spot! I am not seeing any deer in person or on the cameras anymore. Am I wasting my time at this stand.
If you could provide the full cycle of soybeans in terms of how and when deer relate to them.
Thanks!!!
Hope this helps you.
Ole Thumper
Hope this helps you.
Ole Thumper
Even in the south, deer must get food stressed to some degree I would think.
Good luck to all.
I took this picture yesterday morning out of my patio window of 2 deer that were feeding in an uncut soybean field behind my house. They took a break from eating beans to eat some acorns out of my backyard and then resumed eating beans before returning to the woods...
Now talking food plots. If one wants to put in soybeans, i want a multiple crop rotation to maximize nutrition per acre. So many people put in forage soybeans and then the ground gets left pretty bare all but about 100 days. That isn't wise use of the soil. I like having winter triticale, winter wheat or winter rye in the ground. Then rotate in the soybeans. They i want to overseed with brassicas or overseed/reseed with a fall cover crop again.
Forage soybeans will only give me 1/2 the forage dry matter i desire per acre per year. If one puts in regular soybeans, too many food plotters see very low yields. If one puts a value on the energy/forage produced from soybeans and compare them to legumes or legume/brassica combinations, it amazes me why people plant soybeans.
If one gets 40 bushel of soybeans that gives one about $400 of feed value per acre. If one gets 5 ton of legume per acre at $200 a ton thats $1000 per acre of feed value.
Have you seen a map of soybean production overlaid with a map of recent B&C deer entries?
Beans may be the worst feed ever, but the deer don't seem to know it. Nor do the records books.
In areas where there is high iron contents, that is a factor that comes into play that many overlook. Some people have high sodium levels in the water and that is why I have to formulate differently for people in those areas.
I had a talk today with someone on this topic. One can pretty much diagnose issue by taking soil samples and then plant tissue samples. They almost always match.
In 1990 the average mineral contents for feedstuffs is very different from those today and there are factors that come into play. It is why some of the biggest coops in the world are now trying things that i have been involved with for many years and some of those things i've been posting on here.
Antlers are made up of 45% crude protein 22% calcium and 11% phosphorus. Deer antler growth starts in the spring and doing everything one can do 365 days a year is how one grows huge deer. If i showed people where the biggest deer in the Midwest were shot, and then gave you a grid of the average forage test results for those areas, the forage test results will mimic the soil test results. On a side note, water quality also comes into play. I have an appointment today in fact to go trouble shoot some ruminant challenges that water is a factor on as well.
Deer are ruminants. Soybeans that aren't roasted are very very soluble and have a high rate of passage. If one floods the system with high amounts of soluble protein, it takes energy to detoxify it from the system. (why atkins diet works). It's all about having a highly digestible energy source that stays in the system as long as possible. Having an energy source that also has digestible fiber to match it, help slow it and to capture it is hugely important. This is why everyone in the dairy industry moved away from raw beans. Then in the last 5 years the movement is in amino acid profiles. I have been preaching pH and slowing everything down in the system. Part of that equation is amino acids. This is why all formulas people ask me to formulate for deer, contain unique blends of protein and energy sources that contain a very low level of estrogens. There is a lot of 300-400" class deer that consume diets that have very low amounts of soybeans in.
From a feedval standpoint, 2 ton of forage dry matter from soybeans or 40 bushel of soybeans doesn't maximize gain or inches per acre. Compare forage bean yields, protein, energy and mineral levels to other forages. You will have 3 times as much protein, minerals and energy netted per acre by planting a legume blend. You will also net 2 times as much by planting multigraze high sugar brassicas and doing so for 1/2 the cost per acre.
Part of my research in the past was forage sampling every week. So much of the numbers we see in the industry is skewed. I wish everything was based on 60 days of maturity and comparing invitro digestion, mineral contents and protein levels, so as to compare apples to apples. But, who makes much money selling radish, kale, annual clovers or sugar beets?
There are numerous forages that people aren't using to maximize sward density, and maximizing nutrition per acre per year. Some of which i post on here and much more i don't but i do tell people to whom i sell to or provide nutrition advice to.
Another issue with soybeans is.... most food plotters have less than 1 acre that they plant. People should have year round nutrition to keep deer and grow deer. So, not just looking at this year but next year and the year after, putting soybeans into a rotation is an option but unless your planting 1 acre into soybeans. Your not being very efficient.
So how many people who plant soybeans for food plots get 40 bushel yields on the soil they have? Let's say they get 40 bushel of yield @ $10 beans. That is $400 per acre of beans. If one has 20 deer eating soybeans, thats 60-80 days or eating. But then again, are they getting 100% use out of them? I'd venture to say more like 75%. So, then what should people plant before the soybeans? Why leave ground exposed throughout the winter? What are people doing to the soil? What about herbicide resistence issues? Soybean cyst nematode and sudden death syndrome? How about if the government makes people do like they are in the chesapeake water shed ares and have nutrient management plans?
A side note nutrition speaking.....when one compares forage ndfd levels between forage beans and brassicas the forage beans range from 40-50% Ndfd where as the forage brassicas range from 65-70% nfdf so forage brassicas will net about 30% higher 48 hour digestion levels. The typical ruminant will digest their digested feedstuffs in under or around that period of time.
I do sell a lot of soybeans and I do plant soybeans and I ever sell some of the most popular beans but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't try new alternatives and I also wouldn't be an educator if I didn't at least mention things that I am privy to that are unbiased and things i'm exposed to through my connections.
There is tons of good seed out there. There is a lot of good food grade soybeans that would be great for deer. There is some really good new liberty link varieties out there, that would reduce the glyphosate resistant weed potential. Also there is some great non roundup soybeans that one could use preemerge herbicides on for those who don't have the ability to spray over the top/post emerge or who don't want to run down any beans.
I do think that if you restriced the diet to bean only - without the pod- and allowed no browse or other food sources, then you would see significant digestive issues. Deer with adequate browse do not seem to have any issues here in Iowa.
I use beans and corn as a destination food plot to sustain much of the local deer herd in my area. I leave 14 acres yearly. I tend to plant the beans as late as possible, so that when the surrounding bean fields yellow, the deer come to me to hit my later-yellowing greens. Many large bucks in bachelor groups show up at this time. I like to plant/drill them in late june or first week of july. This is too late by farming standards, but my yields are generally 40-50 bu/acre, opposed to 60+ if planted early.
I have mixed beans and corn in my planter with excellent results. The yeild is smaller for the beans, but they do last longer through the winter and do not suffer over-browsing.
An advantage of beans is that you are providing food for all wildlife and not just tonnage of greens. I get my seed through Pheasants Forever or from local FS sales reps who give away seed for food plots. Hit these guys up for last year's seed and you may be surprised at the savings.
Whatever you do, do what you like and keep it fun. Experimenting is part of it. For small plots, maximize your tonnage. If you have room, try a variety and extend your food source season. Keep it fun, or it will turn into a chore!
LG Seeds c3070 R2 Great Lakes 4039 R2 Legends 27r21N
I also would look for some mid 3- mid 4 maturity group indeterminent beans if one wants the best of both worlds and get forage as well as pods.
Another trick...plant eagle beans with regular roundup soybeans that are medium tall and that have a great disease package. The grain beans will grow taller as they compete for sunlight with the eagle beans.
Thank you,
Mark
Long time hard core food plotters are always looking for new things to try. My background is natural approach based grazing that starts with the soil. I wish more people would plant based on a "program" verses plant what's in a fancy bag. Plant for success. Buy seed from people who know the process from soil to mouth.
My views are: It's easy for you all to maximize growth by 25%. It is easy to maximize nutrition per acre by 25%. It is easy to increase inches by 10-20" by simple, cheap concepts. I am blessed with the ability to see 150-210" bucks any time i go out hunting but what gives me satisfaction isn't shooting those deer but mearly knowing how the process that started in 1990 has evolved into what it is today and where one can go 2-3 miles in each direction and see where we use to be before qdma.
Of all the pictures I have seen of huge bucks recently, soybeans dominated the landscape.
On the 2500 acres of land where I do my experiments, the deer have access to beans year round and only have a brief few weeks that they are not the most utilized food.
I think you live in a parallel universe.
If one is in heavy bean areas but you have high iron or iron bacteria or sodium in the water, that will affect inches. If one is in an area that is high in organic matter and calcium, then you will have bigger racks.
I'm involved with the nutrition work for many 300-400 class bucks and they get zero to very little soybeans ever in their diets......they get flax!!
You seem to be "involved" in a lot of things. I simply do or not do. I do not really count the stuff other people I know do.
If I fed pen raised deer, I would not feed beans either. I simply provide good to very good forage to a few hundred deer on about 2500 acres. Not "involved" with it, I simply do it. Have done so for many years, most of my life on one scale or another.
Say a guy asks what to plant and he has 2 acres to work with. Say one plants 1 acre into soybeans and they browse it limited for 60 days getting 1 ton of forage from it. Then once the beans set pods and the plotter is gets 40 bushel of beans off it. That is 2400 lbs of grain. If 20 deer consumed 1 lb of beans or about 25 % of their diet, that would give a person 60 days of supplemental protein. That might be from october 1-dec 1. In that 2400 lbs of soybeans is 912 lbs of protein, 5 lbs of calcium and 16 lbs of phosphorus.
Say one put that 1 acre into clovers. It would give one 3-6 ton of forage dry matter. Using 6000 lbs per acre that gives one 1440 lbs of protein, 81 lbs of calcium and 18 lbs of phosphorus.
Say one is real productive and has 6 ton of dry matter per acre. You would get 2880 lbs of protein, 162 lbs of calcium and 36 lbs of phosphorous produced per acre. That would be 3 times the protein, 10 times the calcium and 2.5 times the phosphorous produced per acre.
The average food plotter has limited resources, acreage and budgets. Last night i was in the area that has the most deer shot per county in the US and i did discuss soybeans with those folks and the response most commonly emmitted was a laugh and for many reasons.
I am a huge fan of clover mixtures and seed dozens of pond dams and miles of roads as well as several acres around my house to clover. Not sure using it in fields is the most productive place for it in my operation.
I do not doubt that there are other good or excellent deer forage plants. Deer are browsers and only get a small portion of their nutrients out of any ag or plot crop anyway. Much of what they eat is beyond any plot strategy.
My point is that "the average plotter" as you say is so often pushed into super expensive or exotic plot seed that is frequently unsuited to the area. This is done by industry people who are more interested in separating the man from his bucks than the size of the bucks he grows. Many could benefit from simply using local ag practices.
I also have concerns about spread of non native/non agricultural seed where control may be an issue.
Don't get me wrong, a lot of ruminants have made some farmers money over the last couple years on a soybean mix that i put together. I like the sugar content at 45-60 days and in a mix with sorghum, it really fits well into a nutrition program.
Forage beans is 2nd in the time and energy i spend after brassicas. I have a few more companies and varieties of beans that i'll play with again this year. For deer or any grazing animal, i want some other species in a mix. Why? Because i want top end nutrition for as long of window as possible.
So, if one plants forage beans early, i advocate for people to mix lablab and cowpeas with them. The deer will hammer the lablab first and then the forage beans and lastly the cowpeas. One could either put forage peas in the mix, or under seed at planting an annual clover. That way when/if the beans are hammered, you will already have another forage shooting up for the following months of forage production.
Another option is overseeding brassicas or a brassica/clover blend in late July or early August, if there still is some forage beans standing. So many farmers in the midwest are looking at overseeding via aerial their covercrops. Some of the beans are coming off to late and so that is becoming more an option. For the smaller food plotter, this can be achieved by broadcast spinning the seed by walking through the plot.