Deer didn't smell me downwind....U Sure?
Whitetail Deer
Exactly right! How many times do you hear the this? The wind was just right, I dont know what happened he was headed right under my stand and pretty soon something spooked him. Or he must have seen me.
I couldn't agree more. There's so many factors that play into this and wind is anything but consistent.
If you really want to test that in real life try setting a smoke bomb on the seat of one of your stands one day and you get a good idea of what can happen. I've seen the smoke stream pull a complete 180 by circling down towards the ground and start going the other direction.
I was hunting a stand in middle Tennessee one year with the wind in my face. the older guys told me the wind swirls in that hole I was hunting. I took a floater out and let it loose. it floated around in front of me for about 20 seconds, went out of sight on my right side, a couple of minutes later floated right by me on my left side. I saw 14 deer that morning in that hole, from all different directions and every one blew out of there before it got close enough for a shot.
Pat,
Does this mean that when you are bowhunting in Kansas in the future, you will no longer leave your safety harness on the kitchen table next to your bratwurst and limburger cheese?
Just trying to clarify your newfound opinion on proper scent control.....
You nailed it. If you don't check the wind with a floater, you don't know the wind. Not powder, not a little feather tied to your bow, not the breeze in your face.
Been there and done that. It will surprise you.
You are right Pat. Human beings are not capable of even imagining the olfactory abolities that a deer has. When I hear these kind of comments, I think of two possibilities....
1. They may ASSUME that the deer was downwind, but as we all know wind/currrents can do some very unpredictable things. Up in the tree it may have been "downwind", but on the ground it can be a different story. Thermals, barometric pressure, humidity levels, etc. all paly a big part in where and how scent travels. I learned this firsthand when I started using colored smoke bombs in my scouting trips on the ground I hunt. I'd been on that ground for 15 years and though I had it all figured out....wrong!
2. They may very well have smelled the hunter and probably did. But they didn't care because the hunter's scent was IN CONTEXT with the usual human comings and goings they encounter every day. This is where I believe that scent REDUCTION practicies can play a positive role. They are by far NOT a cure all or magic bullet (nothing is), but if they can make it seem like you are 200 yards away and not in fact the 20 that you then you may very well think that they "didn't smell me". In more urban areas this is especially true.
I live on 5 acres that has woods on 3 sides and the deer here will not spook when they smell me walk to my barn which I do at least twice a day to feed the horses...as long as I walk the same path. If I come from a different angle or at an unusual time of day they will bolt like satan himself was after them. Like I said, context.
100% agree! Like you said, it's usually accompanied with "I was wearing my "insert product" and he/she/they never knew I was there"... Boloney!
Thermals, temperatures and constant winds may vary your successes. The main reason I don't hunt much early season is because it is warm and it seems the vast majority of times when I get pegged by a deers nose is early season.
Again... Your assessment above is very accurate and something I've lived by as well. Good thread!
"I will be drying my testiculars with your scent free facemask."
... EWWWWWW... that's nasty!
My favorite line is "well, they may smell me but it will cover my scent enough that they will think I'm farther away than I am."
As if the deer are able to reason.
I have used the fluff from Milkweed pods for years. When the fluff is released with the seed removed the direction my scent is traveling can be seen. If there are any trees or terrain features it never travels in a straight line. Instead it looks like a flowing stream that bounces off and goes around obstacles. Many times a back draft is created where it appears the fluff is moving into the wind. I agree if a deer is truly in your scent stream he will smell you. How it reacts may vary.
I have had deer come in to me from what appears to be directly downwind. At times it has perplexed me, being unable to figure out how my scent stream was not reaching them. I have never thought that these instances were the result of any product.
I have wondered if the deer was of diminished capacity however.
The deer not reacting to your scent doesn't mean he didn't smell it. Sometimes human odor is not out of the ordinary and sometimes(during the rut) other factors override his instincts for survival. Some years ago, had a doe bed down upwind not 10 yards from me. Shortly after a nice 8 pointer came in downwind. As he crossed my access trail his demeanor changed, he was alert, on edge, aware. He obviously smelled me or at least my trail. But the doe must have been in season because he disregarded all of his senses to reach the doe. He didn't make it. Long story short, the deer do definitely smell you or whatever concoction you are wearing to cover your scent, but they don't always react in the same manner depending on circumstances.
If there was a star system Pat should have lost two for that one... yikes!
Ok why is that all the guys that believe in all the scent gadgets there deer stories always begins with the deer was directly down wind of me. They never have a deer up wind of them.
I couldn't agree more Pat. Also explains all of that 6th sense stuff.
Cattails are another good windicator.
If you really want to see how deer react, sit in a stand that had really good visibility in all directions. Deer that approach from downwind will often pick up your scent a good distance off and upon smelling you change their course of travel without blowing or making noise to let you know they have smelled you. I often wonder how many deer smell us before coming within visual range and quietly exit without the hunter being any wiser.
The difference I'm reading with using smoke, is (1) its free and (2) I have not read anyone say they tried it and it didn't work...
Cattails are free, and they work.
You never know if they smell you or not if they come in. just because they come in does not mean they did not smell you. that deer on that day in that place simply may not have cared. his epxeriences, his priorities and his mood as a living organism makes how he reacts free will and subject to the whims at the time.
I look at the wind like a river, it has eddy's, pools and depending on the terrain and trees does some very strange things. Always use a floater to check the wind, not all is as it seems.
I believe big game hunting is very much like trout fishing in a stream or river-if you're not careful, for every one you see there are usually several that sensed you first and spooked.
"I look at the wind like a river, it has eddy's, pools and depending on the terrain and trees does some very strange things."
EXACTLY! Great analogy!
Pat is 100% correct.
So all the hunter in a can products don't work? I have buddies that swear by some of them so they must work because they said so. lol
Two words I don't use when discussing deer behavior. Never and always.
Wind currents do strange things. If you use a powder, throw it away. Get yourself some milkweed...then you'll see what the air currents are doing. It amazes me many times as I watch milkweed float about.
Once last year I had a yearling doe come by me...the wind was, apparently, straight from me to her. After she went by without picking me up I got out the milkweed. Yes, the breeze was from me to her, but as the milkweed left my stand and floated the 15 yards to where she had been it steadily gained elevation! My scent went right over her head. Powder wouldn't show that. Now, if I had been using some commercial "scent killer" I would probably be singing it's praises!!
Nobody has more respect for a deer's nose that I do, which is exactly why I just try to be as clean as possible and play the wind.
Two words... French's MUSTARD
When I arrived last year to hunt with Pat and Jake in Kansas, I quickly noticed where Pat kept, er, "stored" his safety harness between hunts. Every night he would carefully "place" it on the kitchen table next to a plate that had mustard drippings on it and there may have been a piece or two of left over Brautwurst, I am not sure. I just remember the mustard. At first,I thought that it was an odd scent control practice. But hey, the guy does kill a nice deer once in a while. Maybe he learned this from the Wensel's I thought. We continued hunting and then one day I saw him with his pant leg pulled over one of his calves. I am pretty sure that I saw him smathering some stuff on it. I am not sure what it was, but I think it might have been that mustard. I think that there may be a picture of this activity floating around, but I am not sure. :-) Anyway, damn if he didn't kill a nice buck. What do I know? Just don't be surprised if French's mustard is a new sponsor on Bowsite. You didn't hear this from me. :-0
I could not agree more with Pat on this. Also the people who think they can in any way hide thier scent are delusional.
"I contend that most of the times hunters claim animals don't smell them from a downwind position is because thermals, obstructions, and temperature fluctuations will alter, sometimes drastically, the wind carrying your scent."
yep .... I've been saying this for years .
BUT actually scent lok technology and scent products DO work exactly as intended ....... they remove all traces of cash from your wallet ..... some companies are getting wealthly by brainwashing the deer hunting world into believing they need their products or they could never kill a deer .
P.T.Barnum ......" never give a sucker an even break"
Recent Field&Stream had an interested test on this. They used a DEA dog to find which box the human was hiding in a field. Test used nothing, scent-lok and Ozonics.
Bottom line ... nothing could beat the dog's nose but the Ozonics delayed the decision the most. Maybe this helps gets you a shot in the woods, but probably not on an alpha doe who is downwind.
I attached a link to the Field & Stream article marktm250 posted above. There is a link in the article to three other 'sniff tests' they conducted. Nothing was perfect but some things helped...
Dwayne
Mad Trapper, better wash your facemask before you use it next time!
So true Pat, I just laugh when I read the stories about xyz product working.... thermals do crazy things to scent and anyone who has sat in a tree with cattails will see how much scent moves in evening vs morning and certain winds that shift w/nw/s/sw.
if you have Ozonics, this conversation doesn't even need to take place....................
Pat I have written about the same, and highly advocate using the milkweed pod floaters. Once I started using that, I avoid stands that would otherwise seem perfect and hunt stands that seem wrong for the wind direction - on a property that is loaded with ridges, hills and steep ravines... No such thing as a clean wind. The river analogy is perfect.
"Oh good. More DEA dog references. I wonder what that cop killer in Pa. was wearing. They had the best DEA dogs in the country looking for him and it took 7 weeks to find him. "
I and a friend back in the 1980s were practically the only ones who bowhunted Vandenberg AFB.
One weekend, the MPs asked if they could train their dogs and track us.
We put on rubber boots, went to our spots, and the dogs did indeed find us.
The next weekend we were up there, the MPs asked us again. This time both of us brought a big can of black ground pepper.
We periodically sprinkled our trail and shrubs with the pepper.
The dogs could not even find their tail that day.
I am betting the cop killer wasn't as stupid as people think.
I did several smoke bomb tests years ago and had my "AH HA" moment. If the wind is blowing at the deer they are gonna smell ya. The ideal situation would be rising thermals could keep your scent above them. If the scent containment gimmicks actually worked as advertised everybody that uses them would have great opportunities on mature bucks. What about the scentblocker guy who hunts in a pen and shoots giant deer that come in downwind. Give me a break!
I've had days where I could tell within a foot of when the deer was going to smell me and shot them just before the reached my scent stream. Other deer that came along later confirmed my accuracy. Other times I couldn't tell where my scent was going. But really...what does it matter unless you are going to climb down and change locations.
I agree. This is something I have told hunters for a long time. Even so I still clean up before hunting.
Where I hunt, I see 95 percent or more of the deer that wind me. I pretty much have to be asleep for them to wind me and not see them. It has taught me a lot. You ever notice that more deer bust you in the evening vs. the morning?
A deer can come down wind all day, doesn't mean much other than yeah, he was down wind, but thermals and currents were influencing the direction your scent was going.
A deer cannot smell you up wind, currents are making that happen. Example being a hedge row, wide open, nothing but a 10 yard strip of trees, wind blowing hard, it hits and tumbles back out and deer pick you off right at the moment of truth. That deer was in the waterfall.
"I contend that most of the times hunters claim animals don't smell them from a downwind position is because thermals, obstructions, and temperature fluctuations will alter, sometimes drastically, the wind carrying your scent."
100% agree. Everytime I think I have it right, it proves me wrong and vice versa. I know that it must have something to do with thermals, a shift, structure or something of that nature. There is always a reason both ways-when it hurts you...and when it helps you.
I just do the best I can and as often as I can. Mature deer are just plain tough to kill.
One should never "fry" a bratwurst, obviously not from Wisconsin! That's illegal here, must be grilled properly. Amature.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Not at all Jake. I will fry bratwurst next to your safety harness next week. Mine will be sitting in a tub basting in Scent Killer liquid before I blow dry it with an ozone machine. And a warning to Edgington...Don't even think about commenting on this thread. If you do, I will be drying my testiculars with your scent free facemask."
I noticed that too Elk Elsewhere...Savages!
I've been using milkweed as well. to the other guys that use milkweed and cattails how do you store them to bring with? I've been using an old film container and am thinking that there could be better stuff.
I peel them partway open and scrape the seeds out then put rubber band around them and let dry.When I need one I attach them to my bow limb/treestand/scope with the rubber band. tear the tip off and pull a few out at a time.
SA,
Hopefully this is not off topic to much since several passing mentions have happened already but tell me what you think......
" Also the people who think they can in any way hide thier scent are delusional"
Call me delusional I guess because I think any hunter can mask or lessen human scent up to a certain extent that can help you get "closer." Simple and cheap things IMO are all that is needed and the only things that do help. Scent free cloths and stuff like that IMO are bunk. However Bathing with scent free soaps and using scent free deodorant cant hurt you IMO and doesn't really cost you any extra money and just has to be better than bathing in perfumed soaps. Short of that I am not a believer in any hunter in a can products other than dirt scented wafers I store my hunting cloths in.
It was said best in another thread I was in recently where scent free products like soaps and deodorants were being discussed,
"Have you ever been around someone who does not bath? Not only can you smell them from farther away than one who baths but the stench lingers. I have been in public places around such people and way before I saw them I smelled them." "I think if you minimize your scent with scent free soaps the deer have less chance of smelling you"
I agree 100% with that but I do also agree with Pats assessment that even though some may think they were not winded they probably were. However, I think a matter of degree makes a difference. If you use scent free soaps and deodorant and wash your hunting cloths with scent free laundry soap and store your hunting cloths and boots away from human odors as much as possible to limit unwanted human odors it can help a hunter a lot when the wind is not perfect IMO. A deer will certainly still smell you when your scent is headed into their nose even when it is faint but they may need to be closer to pick it up or feel in danger. If they are closer before picking it up that helps right?
If you sit inside in your house in your hunting cloths and boats and sweat and then go jump in a stand and haven't bathed for 24 hours then they will likely pick you off much faster and bolt wouldn't you say? You would bring more scent with you and have more on you if you don't at least try to minimize it. I know my arm pits stink after a hard days work but after I bath they don't. Which has the higher odds of being detected sooner by a deer? Stinky pits or no stinky pits? lol....
I have always thought by way of trial and error that deer in residential or farm land areas at least have a kind of danger zone buffer around them and you can get close to them if you don't stink to high heaven and you try to limit your scent as much as possible. If you stink you may only get to within 100 yards instead of 20 feet. Swamp deer I have hunted many times would bolt at the 1st faint smell I brought with me.
Look at it like cologne. lol.... When you put it on it stinks to high heaven and everyone can smell it from 10 feet away. The next day it is barley detectable. If you bath and do the things I believe and you lessen your scent it increase odds of getting closer even when the wind is not ideal.
Just my opinion.
What is the difference between dirt scented wafers and perfume....to a deer?
LOL. Well one smells like perfume and the other smells like dirt. Dirt is a natural smell and perfume is not. Go dig up the forest floor and take a wiff. lol Not sure if they even help but I like the feeling I get when I smell it. It enhances my hunt. LOL. Makes me feel more rugged and I can make believe I am a great white hunter living off the land. :o).... I can say they don't hurt the hunt in any way I have seen. I am routinely very close to deer. I was routinely close to deer before I started storing dirt scent wafers with my hunting cloths so who knows how much they help or if at all but they certainly do not hurt anything I have seen.
My wife hates those things because I forget to take my hat off and she says "you smell like dirt." I guess when I come home from hunting I would rather have her say that then her saying you smell like a stinky human that didn't shower or that you smell like "Brut" cologne. Seems logical to me. Either way the economy benefits because they get my few bucks every year from me for a can of those wafers. That's the American way and I gotta help out where I can with capitalism. Wouldn't want the wafer Co to go broke.
;o)
heres what I have said for years .... if you go into your bathroom and do a doodoo and then spray some pine scented air spray ,will the person that walks in 5 minutes later sniff and think " oh my , it smells like a beautiful pine forest "
NO WAY ...... they will think "Jeaz , it smells like someone crapped a christmas tree"
its the same thing when a deer smells someone secret weapon cover scent
Well that might be true if guys were using pine scented aerosol spray for hunting after taking a doodoo. LOL.
I will say I gave those real cheap estrus cover scent wafers a try one year and one old doe in particular we had around didn't like it at all and wouldn't get real close whenever I used them. If I used them she would huff and puff and snort and carry on and then bail as fast as she came in. If I didn't use them and had the dirt scented ones on she would be in front of me often but then again she would be there with no wafers period too. The dirt scented ones had no such negative impact either way that I noticed like those estrus ones did. Not saying they work or don't but IMO the cheap cover scent estrus wafers are junk!
no not might be true ....... it IS true
The dirt scent wafers may smell like dirt to you, but are they actually made from dirt or are they a chemical based odor made to smell like dirt? If a chemical, I would think it is still a foreign odor to the deer...same as perfume.
here is a great example. these two clowns came in Sunday around 1:30. They fed around in front of my stand for a while, then worked around to back of me. they then bedded down for almost two hours as shown in picture. They were DOWNWIND of me without doubt, but somehow the wind currents must have been pulling my scent right over them. wind was out of west and maybe 5-8 mph. Those deer are 14 and 20 yards away from my tree and I took the pic with my phone. Crazy stuff..........
I have found on morning hunts I virtually never get busted by deer that appear to be downwind of me. If I do it is usually very early in the morning. I believe that morning thermals rising lift my scent above the deer. I still pay attention to the wind in the morning but not to the degree I do for an evening hunt.
Has anyone tried altering their sent by taking Chlorophyll tablets like Nullo?
I tried Chlorophyll tablets...wasn't impressed. It will give your stool an interesting color, though....LOL!!
That may be but over 15 deer taken since using them the past several years has shown me no negative effects. My hunting cloths are drenched in dirt scent because I store them with the waffers so if they were negitive I would not routinely film deer from 20 yards away too i wouldn't think.
They just do not seem to have any negative impact I have seen. Like I said not sure they even help but I like em
