DL's Link
Also it looked like he could have gotten off another shot before the bear charged?
Terry
Never saw him or my sweater again. Good sweater, too.
;-)
On my free-range red deer hunt in Australia, the guy filming me, also a super-accomplished bowhunter, was blown away that I shot my stag twice with a recurve. He stopped out there at 45 after the first arrow zipped through him at 25 and I already had another arrow on the string, so that one went through him too. The guy filming acted like it was a big deal. For me it's just automatic to get another arrow on the string and into the critter as quickly as possible. You never know.
Obviously it would have been better if the bear would have moved off to expire but he clearly had already pegged the hunters position.
Easy to second guess from the couch.
The bear is simply huge. The hunter made a terrible shot. The guide put a bullet into the face of disaster.
100% of my admiration goes to the guide.
TODDY
If you aren't there, you can't say what you would or wouldn't have done. Who knows, maybe the movement of getting ready for another shot would have provoked the charge earlier.
TBM....you're full of shot. If you're so much better, go do it.
If you can't afford it, that's your own fault.
I don't normally kick back on this forum, but TBM you don't have a clue.
First off, the first shot went low. Not every shot we take is perfect, and considering the circumstances, being on his knees, a MONSTER of a bear right in front of you and another one watching from the beach, the adrenaline was pounding through his veins and he simply shot low. Could happen to anyone. I know two very well known bowhunters that blew broadside, 10 yard shots on bull moose. So, it happens.
The second shot was on target, but broadheads take a bit, especially when it is a #1400 plus pound bear. Did he have another shot? Maybe, maybe not. We didn't have his angle to see. The shot was good, so why take the risk of alerting the bear and having him charge?
He charged because he got downwind of them and figured out what bit him. That is why the gun was there, trained on the bear(s) the whole time. That to happens when hunting the big growlers.
TBM, maybe you should video one of your unkillable turkeys charging you. Dude, seriously, you need some help. Your ego is out of control. When you have accomplished HALF of what the bowhunter in the video has done, then you might be able to offer an opinion.
Last spring we finally got into the right spot after watching a nice boar and a sow on a slide for over 5 hours. I arrowed the boar at 13 yards. He instantly spun a 360 biting at the fletch then made three quick bounds and went past us at five feet, disappearing into the old growth rain forest below us! This took about 2 seconds maximum. During this time both Brian and I knew the boar never made eye contact with us. Had I been fumbling for an arrow and he saw us, the outcome could have been poor for us. He ran 120 yards before expiring. I held back slightly on the shot to account for his incessant digging as I was afraid of hitting the shoulder/leg bone. We also had to go contend with the sow at 15 yards right after the shot as she was wondering what the heck happened to her boy friend and why he had left in such a rush! Luckily she hadn't followed him directly, nor did she challenge us when we spooked her off the slide. Such is the excitement if bowhunting big bears! It took two days for our adrenalin levels to subside!
As per a big bear skull.....there is a heck of a lot of meat and reinforced bone around their brain that is not much larger than a decent size navel orange, based on my grizzly skull. Good luck trying to do any damage to the brain with an arrow in event of a charge. A big rifle is the correct weapon at that point.
Oh and yes, I have been under twenty many times and as close as twelve feet once from coastal browns. Have also been on the big bore where lead was administered at ten yards.
I just wonder what the hell the guide was thinking fooking around with a rangefinder at that distance?? Seriously?
This statement is 100% true.
Your hero list is already jammed full, with yourself, anyway.
He did get the second shot off, but first, folks don't have the shooters angle. Secondly the follow up shot looked good to me.... I'd think a great time to make yourself real small and let the blades do their work...
Took it a split second when it cut their wind line. I'd have to guess the guys saying don't move a muscle were on to something.....
Geez TBM... take it easy on him, shot wasn't off that much.....good grief, you'd think he hit an elk in the antlers or something....
Correct TBM, you secured that title on your elk hunt...
This is my first try at this.....but hopefully, this will show the link....
http://cdn.wideopenspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Intense-Kodiak-Bear-Charge-in-Alaska-620x330.jpg
They should make this hunter hunt alone no backup LOL
You are mistaken.....per JSW's own comments.....posted on another thread.....
"I was shooting a Hoyt Vectrix set at 70#. Cabelas Carbon arrows and a Muzzy 125 grain 4 blade. Weight 475 grains."
DL's Link
I am not sure what they are more full of....BS or themselves?
So nobody is moving on to another bear........wound equality levels the politics of archery vs gun
I have bowhunted brown bear five times. Two of my guides have had gun hunters wound brown bears at archery close bears.....one was in the foot!!
Genesis X 2
JSW,
Your video reminded me of the Fred Bear video where the cameraman drops the camera after the shot and takes quite a while to regain his composure, and pick up the camera and continue filming..... your videographer recovered much faster!!!
Jake u forget how lucky i was in AK when a bowhunter blew a chip shot like this , sending a wounded bear in my direction , eye to eye his nose in the air mere yards . Except i had no weapon no guide with a backup !!! only luck on my side !! That could have easily been my last hunt all due to a horrible shot .
For every bowhunting snafu that you can recite, there is a gun snafu to match it, if not outnumber it, because more guys gunhunt them than bowhunt them.....
...and if someone is worried about a wounded bear, I submit that they could care less about the weapon of choice...it is a wounded animal regardless...
I actually doubt if many people even have enough knowledge about bruin anatomy to know what a lethal shot is compared to a "wounding" shot....and regarding your incident in Alaska, that situation should never have occurred....I agree....but even a well placed arrow wouldn't necessarily have dropped that animal before he could have reached you....because as we both know, bullets kill by shock....arrows kill by hemorrhage....which usually takes longer. You have the advantage of having been there, though....I was not.
I saw a BOWHUNTER wait patiently for two quality shot opportunies.I wasn't surprised because you,I and most guys on this thread would have waited for those exact opportunities.If you want to argue that you would never miss those shots that's another thing but the hunter did everything he possibly could do.Personally I always carried a pistol to discharge if a fatally wounded bear squats on me and I want to try to scare him off.
A buddy from Bowsite shot a brown bear that was fatally wounded and squatted and had to be dispatched with a gun.It happens and it just makes me think a pistol (for noise) is an advantageHaving the guide shoot a warning shot makes less sense in case his gun jams.
That video shows a bowhunter with faith and fortitude to finish what started with a less than perfect scenario.......it was almost a perfect ending instead it ended a more than perfect ending!
Let's keep things in perspective.....
Ever get the shakes before or after shooting a whitetail deer?
How many 1,417 pound Brown bears have you shot at? I didn't see any trophy photos posted for you....
JSW didn't miss the barn....er.....bear. He simply made a less than desirable first shot. However, he kept his head in the game, and made a good second shot.
I would have shat myself. Probably would have peaked and pulled my shot too. Hell I might have missed. The adrenalin being so close to such a huge and deadly animal with a slow kill weapon has to be over the top intense. Now I wanna go try it....W/O the charge of course. lol.....
That vid to me proves even good shots and experienced hunters can sometimes put a poor shot on game at anytime or from time to time regardless of how great they are. We all do it. Just glad he got it and no one got mauled or killed.
Very cool video though. I would have been screaming and running like Sam Witwikki in the transformers movies as soon as that bear started to charge. lol...
Making a less than perfect shot is reality in any kind of hunting situation. We have all blown shots. Even if JSW only had shot the second arrow, which we all agree was a good killing shot, there is still nothing that keeps a 1,400 animal from trying to kill you. Maybe he runs off or maybe he charges exactly like he did in this video.
The possibility of having an animal eat you is what some people thrive on when hunting dangerous game. It doesn't really matter if a rifle or a bow is used....when hunting dangerous game the predator prey relationship can easily turn.
I have no dangerous game experience and personally am not really interested in hunting those animals. We are all wired different but at this time in my life I don't have any desire to hunt that type of game but I respect those that do.
x2
God bless,Steve
Julius
God bless, Steve
Nobody can't possibly see anything but a gutshot on the first shot...If you've bowhunted you've gutshot something
I have a hunting partner that only sees things from his prospective. NEVER dawns on him you have a different angle than he has. And it's been like that for years and years. Whispering "shoot him, shooooot him!" while I'm trying to whisper back I have no shot. If he sees a shot... a shot has to be there....
Hard to say.... the first shot was off, but not by a bunch, not as much as some think. I could see it catching a bit of lung, maybe liver as well as gut. If that bear turns away, walks off..... give it some time it's dead IMO. But it didn't....
From the studies and annals of Woody Sanford.... may Pat have mercy on his soul....
Terry
Yes we all make bad shots ! But really no reason to run with it and make it headlines for the world to see
This video can only damage bow hunting !!I bet my last dollar if first shot was money that fat bear would have died on the carcass !!!
It's interesting that you don't share that very same perspective on Alabama turkeys versus turkeys from anywhere else.....
It's also interesting that you chose to get defensive....I merely posed a question inquiring about how many people had hunted for brown bear.....
In my years of bow hunting it seems once a critter is wounded/ bad shot , it can seem impossible to put down with a second shot, even if second shot is well placed.
That is true....some people really underestimate the power of adrenaline!!
The guide and then run.
No disrespect intended here either.....but while 300+ million people may have an opinion on US politics or religion, the vast majority of them have not run for office, or studied theology. Therefore, they cannot offer the insight of someone that has. I am referring to that insight as it applies to brown bear bow hunting.
Ive been around AK bears and grizzly bears in the lower 48 ,, Them big fat AK bears are timid compared to the small Grizzly of WY just down right full of attitude towards humans ..
If you aren't an Alaskan resident, I don't believe that you can hunt brown bear without a gun backup.
DC's Link
Terry
Terry
Let's try a different tack.......Why do you believe that the second shot is not lethal?
Second shot was $$$$$$$ .The bear was on the clock unfortunately he winded them or saw them move or both in his last minute of living
"I agree with city that posting that video is nothing to be proud of."
I would be proud. Even with an imperfect shot on the 1st and a better shot on the 2nd the bear would still probably have died in relatively short order had it not charged. What's not to be proud of? They got the bear. I would imagine the odds of this event being repeated very often are very slim but I am uncertain on that.
" Also, as I stated previously, there is no way I would pose for a photo with that bear when it was clearly killed by the guide with a gun."
I would think the bear would have died after it killed all 3 of them so the point is moot and if you die then certainly that's nothing to be proud of. lol
Got to love all these Bowsite experts. NONE of us were there to witness this first hand so none of us know what was really hit by the 2 arrows. Nor does the video have the same angle as the shooter which makes the shots look different than they really were. You can only see part of the Bear on the first shot so that messes up you perspective on where the arrow hits.
The picture someone mentioned claiming it showed gut plugging the arrow hole is not guts, it is fat. If you have ever shot a bear that is really fat you would know what it looks like. Gut would have been pushing out more with some of them hanging out of the hole.
If you visit the other thread pertaining to this hunt, you can get a better feel for shot locations.
Shotguns with slugs (hard cast such as Dixie, etc) and heavy buckshot (Dixie makes a .600 3 ball hard cast too) were considered pretty good as you could get at least a couple rounds off close range. A good many AK residents I talked to rely on those as well.
The perfect medicine in my mind would be a big double rifle, the classic British elephant gun. So I researched those....Ouch. Big money. One company makes a 45/70 double gun called the Kodiak for under $6000. That's about as cheap as they get for decent double. I read big bear guides on several forums that really really wanted a synthetic stock stainless double gun in .375 or bigger for $2000 or under, one guy said he'd buy two of em right off. But I guess they just don't exist. Word was Ruger was working on a kind of "Number 2" working man's heavy double at one time but never made it into production. Maybe it was the name....
One AK guy had a custom Butch Searcy 24" stainless steel 470 nitro double that's a beauty. But likely costs more than most new 4x4 trucks would. I think his standard double gun is around $20,000. No longer makes the stainless model? Probably along the lines of what they were calling a "Gun Vault Queen".... but for those of us who are tool whores... sure is beautiful.
Which also kinda explains why the marlin 45/70 lever gun is pretty popular (stainless model seems to be made for wet AK) .... a good bit of pop with good bullets available and a pretty fast handling quick repeater.
Anyway, not a total thread hijacking, had to do with using backup guns on big bears such as in this case.....
Carry on with the regularly scheduled sniping.... I'm thinking maybe he should have tried grinning the bar down.... like they do in Alabama....
Alot of really good loads/rifles out their now to give the deepest penetration to the CNS or heavy bone....buckshot is better than #6..:)
I'll digress
1) Obviously Luke (the guide) does this for a living 2) Video evidence supports his choice as a good one 3) I wouldn't want to experiment with potentially inferior penetrating round ball projectiles as a backup to stop wounded brown bears but those who would, have at it. Might make a good read if you live to write about it.
Matt's Link
A decade or so ago we were stuck in Anchorage waiting to get to Kodiak, and got to talking to a long-time brown bear guide. The thing he reinforced is that brown bears are not black bears, and folks who expect them to act similarly and (more important) die similarly are terribly misguided.
When I read the comment above about giving ground or fighting the bear because it couldn't do much damage, I immediately thought of this scene from the critically acclaimed cinematic masterpiece "Billy Madison".
A bolt gun is too awkward for my normal mode of operandi, going solo. I 'discovered' my new backup gun. Adequate power, heavy bullet capable, lots of fast shots, portable, side carryable. What is it? Drum roll, a .458 SOCOM in an evil black rifle. Nine rounds in rapid succession of 300-500 grains each and with a carry handle receiver I can have it hang at my side for quick draw access.
So far I have blood trailed one brown for a buddy but it wasn't going far.
All it took was the right bait.....er, turkey, whatever...
WRT backup, (firearms, not computer).... my only interest in a big bear firearm would be backing up a bowhunter, fast backup, close range as in a charge. Exactly this situation.
No interest at all in using it to take game, any game. None. The question in my toolish mind is what is the very best tool to have in your hands in that situation?
The guide and his equipment performed flawlessly. But I'm not sure he only guides bow hunters, (or what bowhunters might go to the rifle) exactly what tools are at his disposal.... and it's always an advantage to use something you are soooo familiar with it's like a part of you.
I inherited a mauser action 375 H&H I've shot a few times but never hunted with. The favorite rifle I have ever owned is a pre 64 mod 70 .338, killed literally tons of stuff with it, shot many hundreds if not thousand of rounds through it. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything in NA with it, maybe anything on earth. But both are scoped bolt actions. Both would work..... Neither would be what I would choose for exactly that situation... if I had a choice.
I was just typing out loud about something I'd done a bit of research on for some time, (as a few very experienced big bear bowhunters here can attest to me bugging them about, Steve H being one of several). As stated, the only use, the sole purpose would be personal protection against big bears, in close range critical situations while bowhunting. ZERO interest in hunting anything with it. None.
Hey, maybe some bear spray would have "flavored" things up a bit..... think it might have stopped him???
Steve... that's awesome... heheheh... gotta love the bow hook....I'd bet money you made it...
So I guess my S&W 500 pistol with only 3 rounds wasn't enough for a 9 1/2 foot wounded Brown Bear? Geeze I wish you guys had told me earlier! LOL
Secondly....WHITE RAVEN IS ALIVE !
okay,it's good to have you back.....
PM'ed you
It's what was displayed by the guide in the video, you have to hit something that will stop the charge. I have a friend from Cold Bay who killed a young bear at close range with a 22. Hornet to the brain (not carried as a back up gun, just what a 15 yr. old kid had at the time).
I carried a 30.06 for a long time with pretty good results (dispatched a couple of Brown Bears with it though none were closer than 20 yards). Switched to 375. when I had the funds.
The shotgun toters would loose some faith if they have ever seen a slug so balled up in hair that it could only get about 6'' of penetration. I'm sure that was an extreme case but it did happen so no thanks on the 12 ga. (may have been an old style lead slug, not sure on that).
That video is a great teaching aid on what can happen, as much as anything it was proximity to the carcass and the other bear(s) in the vicinity that caused that charge (you can see his reluctance to leave the whale after the first arrow, as well as his side glances over to the other bear). Looked to me like the hunter got a good arrow in him on the second try and it was just bad luck and being winded that convinced him (bear) enough was enough.
Medicinemann's Link
Medicinemann's Link
BTW, I should have specified my "evil black gun" is a standard AR15, well all but barrel and bolt.
(TD: Yes, hand stitched (by me) leather over a plate of sign aluminum bent to allow "quick draw". You win the bet, I'll deliver your case of Corona in person.
Thank God you're back! That TBM guy was skeerin' me! LOL
The one thing that was clear was the fact that the shooter pushed to he shot to the right..."pushed" as it relates to shooting means he collapsed, or lost back tension just prior to release.
The other thing that happened or didn't happen was the archer never loaded another arrow. There was a glitch after the first shot and oddly enough waves that were not breaking during the first shot began to break after the glitch. What actually happened during the glitch and how much time ran off is the question. Another miss could have been edited out or a lot if time might have passed. Could have been something related to a cameraman mistake. Somebody knows. Might have been 2 different bears shot but I dought it.
