Easement through neighbors land?
Whitetail Deer
To access the east side of our farm I need to come in through neighbors farm via they're driveway. They're a elderly couple he's 90 I think she's not to far behind him. They've always granted me permission for this access and have been great about it. My question is I would like to talk with them to try and get a perminent easement to cross they're property for the future to prepare for if and when the inevitable happens and my neighbors "sell the farm". Has anyone out there ever dealt with this issue and have suggestions how to handle a situation like this? I want to be carefull and not screw up the relationship I have with my neighbors.
Access easements usually cost money, as they may be a negative to possible new owners. Are you prepared to pay for it? You should also be honest if you approach them. Unless there is some insurmountable obstacle running through your property, "need" is a bit of an exaggeration. Sounds more like a convenience.
Ziek, Yes I understand it may cost money. I should have originally stated that I counted on it costing something, and maybe should have rephrased my question to what the going rate is? Why would I not be honest? I would make my intentions perfectly clear!! Just wondering if anyone has gone through this before? Yes it would be a "convenience" without this access I wouldn't have "convenient" access to about 1/3 of our property. I guess I could become a rock climber and scale the 150' bluff to access the top of the ridge but I'm lazy I guess.
Happy Thanksgiving!!
I had the same problem a few years back. Build your own access if possible around your neighbors land. Saves yourself a hassle and makes your land worth more.
I went around my neighbor. Or buy the land when it comes up for sale.
This happened to me. I have been hunting this 100 acre farm for many years. I helped the farmer many times with farm work. I even replaced the the shingles on the barn. When the land owner past. He had his wife who is a lawyer, put in the land deed. Those who are leasing, renting, or purchasing said property must give me (my name and phone number)sole permission to hunt on said property for as long as I wish. No questios asked. If not, the deal is off. I was driving by th the property, an I saw no trespassing signs. I went to the house an talked to the wife. Husband was out back. When he came in, we talked. He went into the house an got the sale contract. He showed me the information. I looked up an said thanks Herb. The new owner welcomed me. I have helped him with projects that he was doing. I would say talk to them and the family. Sometimes an easement can be a pain, but others times it would not have any affects.
JEG. All I meant by being honest is that you don't NEED (the word you used in your post) the easement. There are situations where an easement is necessary to the point where one can be forced.
Easements can also be negotiated any way the two parties can agree upon. It doesn't have to be in perpetuity. It could be tied to your ownership of your property and not to the property itself and not allowing you to assign it to anyone else. It could also be exclusive to your ability to access for hunting only, as opposed to general access. It could be designated as a foot path, ATV trail or "driveway". In other words, you and the neighbor can work out whatever might be agreeable and the cost would be based on that. It could also be a one time "purchase" of the easement, or an annual fee that automatically renews as long as you continue to pay. There are endless possibilities.
I had a foot path easement across my property when I first bought it . I later bought the property the easement went to ........ as a landowner you really dont want an easement across you ..... creates lots of problems
Get it in a legal description while they are still alive! I have heard of these things happening and the new owner permanently sealed off access to the neighbor's land and the neighbor literally lost their property. After 15 years, the land became the new owner's by adverse possession.
Like Pat said....someone asked my mom and I shot it down....
It largely depends on the location of the easement. If it's down the side i t may not be a problem. If it cuts their property in half, you have a tough sell.
in some states there is a timelimit of like 10 years where if you have been crossing a neighbors property with his knowledge, free and open use, without restrictions they can't stop you. I believe they close a street down in New York City every year for one day to keep possession of it.
If it is the ONLY means to access that property here in Oklahoma the landowner has to grant an easement. We have 400 acres that are boxed in from any road and a river as well. There is an easement that goes along the edge of the property line of the party between us and the section line. However, notice I said only.
Grady
grady - is that foot access only? Our land is in Oklahoma and in our area if land is "landlocked" the only easement you get is foot access to get to it. Not required to be given vehicle access...
"I have a ROW through land owned by a Haitian rapper."
That's interesting Pat; only you.
I have an easement on my property along one boundary. It isn't hunting property, but where I live on 5 acres. Certainly there can be problems, but in most cases only when you make it so. The biggest issue for me is always how the maintenance should go because I don't think there are generally rules made or outlined in the deed. Trying to buy a strip for access and maybe rebuilding the driveway for them might not be a bad option, but I obviously have no idea how the property lays out.
I'm a land surveyor and deal with some of this stuff on a fairly regular basis.
There are some things like "adverse possession" being thrown around on this thread but aquiring land or (prescriptive) easements that way is really pretty rare and difficult.
Laws can differ from state to state but the scenario 1boonr mentioned above where the landowner can't stop you after a certain amount of time is generally not true if the landowner has been giving you permission.
In order for you to acquire an easement against somebody's will the use has to be "adverse" to the owner or without his permission, you then acquire a prescriptive easement but only a court can decide if all factors have been met such as open, notorious, hostile, continuous for the legally required duration of time, etc.
If the owner gives you permission it doesn't meet the requirement of being hostile or adverse to the owner so you don't acquire an easement. In other words, you can't take it from him if he's willingly letting you use it.
The same thing goes for Thornton's example, the person possessing the land and taking it away would have to meet all the requirements for gaining title by adverse possession and would have to prove it in court. It doesn't happen automatically.
Ziek pretty much nailed it.
Once you have the verbal agreement(what and when) on price and terms, get the survey to provide the legal description(where). Get the legal description to an attorney (unless you care to draft it yourself) - When the language is agreeable to all parties - the givor of the right or all parties of the agreement must sign it and record it. Then enjoy it.
You also may want to run the access agreement past a title company to make sure they will insure it. Hard to sell if it is uninsurable or unloanable.
The link is an article from a local title company describing how access in Colorado works or is granted from a title insurance perspective.
I have successfully fought easements and dragged them on for years with little expense. Delay, Delay, Delay......
Good luck getting it.....but I expect you will have problems.
Cheesehead...Could you say just how, legally to give that permission to use the property? Would a lawyer have to write the permission letter, or could I just mail one with signature of acceptance recorded by the post office do?
tadpole, I'm a land surveyor and not an attorney so I can't and shouldn't give legal advice.
That being said, if you want to give somebody written permission to use your property so their use does not ripen into an adverse right I don't think a lawyer would have to write it up.
You could write something up stating your name, where the property is (legal description from your deed) and who you are giving the permission to and for what purpose, sign it and mail it to them. Ask them to sign it and mail it back to you and then keep it. You're going to want to have a record of your written permission if anybody tries to claim any "rights" in the future. It probably wouldn't hurt to have both of your signatures acknowledged by a Notary...
Really, in OK the government can force an easement over private land without compensating the land owner for it?
I would think that's unconstitutional.
I can't imagine there would be anything positive for the landowner to do this. You say you are using their driveway as access. Unless it is long and you could get off of it before you actually drove by their house it ain't gonna happen. I would give word of mouth permission to you if I were them but, a permanent easement going right through their living space will VERY negatively affect the future value of their property. So, unless it could be done very discretely, no way I'm signing it over as permanent to pass along to the next owner of your property, or devalue mine. I personally think you'll get the same from them. Never hurts to ask and make them an offer if they are inclined to entertain one. God Bless
Pat, Haitian rappers in Boonville? Are you sure it's not reggae? Oh, that's Lowville.
Cheesehead has solid advise. We owned some acreage that had been encroached upon by the neighboring owner for many years. We had given them verbal permission to leave their fence and outbuildings there but when the value skyrocketed we simply had that agreement written up and notorized. That agreement kept everybody on the same page. It was tied to current ownership and when one party sold the encroachments needed to be removed.
check state law, if your property is land locked you may get an easement granted by law.
"check state law, if your property is land locked you may get an easement granted by law."
I've heard this too in Wisconsin, but not for sure, just what some locals have told me. Maybe there's a certain amount of time where if access has been granted that it becomes a legal right of way? Worth calling your county zoning office and asking anyway.
No, not in Wisconsin. You buy land locked property in Wisconsin and it is what it is...land locked. No amount of time changes that either. BC
And county zoning offices don't have the answer, it's outside their area of expertise so beware if they try to give you an answer. I know because I'm a County Surveyor and also the manager of the County Zoning and Land Management Office.
Your best bet is to talk to a Real Estate Attorney in your specific state or a licensed Land Surveyor.
In Minnesota there is a cartway law that allows you to force a very narrow access across neighbors property if you have NO other access and that incluses across a lake. I read a court case where somebody was denied a cartway because they could access their property by boat across a lake.
Just remember that anytime you try to force an easement over somebody elses land you are assuming that your property rights are superior or more important than the rights of the person who owns the land you are trying to force the easment across. The courts and laws usually don't look at it that way, they protect the rights of all landowners equally and that includes the guy who you are trying to force the easement upon.
Somebody who crosses somebody elses land for a specific number of years (it differs from state to state) may acquire the right to continue to access the property (its called a Prescriptive Easement) but you have to prove that you have satisfied all the elements such as: Open, Notorious, Continuous, Hostile, Exclusive, etc. It would have to be decided in court and it's not an easy case to prove. Some states like Minnesota have a Torrens system for land ownership. You can go through a court proceeding and enter your land into the Torrens system by registering your title and boundaries and once you have done that it is protected forever from somebody else claiming that they own or have an easement across your land.
